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Thread: Iran trys to get holland to ban dutch mp's film about the "violence provoking koran"

  1. #301
    In all of this, I pity the Muslims who are simply trying to get on with their lives in Holland. Who are not involved and who do not support the violence. It is they who will suffer for the actions of those who resort to violence. It's a shame really.

  2. #302
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    They are also mostly completely ignored. You'll hear people screaming that the moderate Muslims should DO SOMETHING. Of course, when they do something, everyone ignores them.

    Dutch Muslims Urge Calm Over Quran Film
    http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...NnyWgD8UCFP4G0

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    Do you see me supporting the destruction of Buddha's statues?
    Of course not SAM.

    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    To me that is equal to tearing a Quran.
    Maybe this was just a quick reply. I think it's much much much more worse to destroy at 2500 year old irreplaceable Buddhist statue than tear a Qur'an printed today. Don't you agree? I mean, if you had the ability to stop one from happening - which would you pick?
    Prevent the statues from being destroyed or a 2008 Qur'an from being destroyed?

  4. #304
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    Of course not SAM.

    Maybe this was just a quick reply. I think it's much much much more worse to destroy at 2500 year old irreplaceable Buddhist statue than tear a Qur'an printed today. Don't you agree? I mean, if you had the ability to stop one from happening - which would you pick?
    Prevent the statues from being destroyed or a 2008 Qur'an from being destroyed?
    To me both are equal, because both are significant only in that they are symbols which have meaning to people. In themselves, they are just dust and mineral and paper and stone. Perhaps this is a cultural discrepancy, but in India the written word is accorded great respect, as they represent knowledge which is priceless. You can still see people who accidentally step on a piece of paper with writing on it, will immediately pick it up and hold it to their foreheads. This kind of sentiment is very much absent in the west, who apply their own values to our belief systems and then are surprised when we do not share their opinions about them.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by SAM
    To me both are equal, because both are significant only in that they are symbols which have meaning to people. In themselves, they are just dust and mineral and paper and stone. Perhaps this is a cultural discrepancy, but in India the written word is accorded great respect, as they represent knowledge which is priceless. You can still see people who accidentally step on a piece of paper with writing on it, will immediately pick it up and hold it to their foreheads. This kind of sentiment is very much absent in the west, who apply their own values to our belief systems and then are surprised when we do not share their opinions about them.
    So you equate a cheap and easily replaced mass produced copy of something with an original and all but irreplaceable work of community effort and devotion ?

    Is that a common Islamic attitude toward the products of such effort and devotion, or is it just you ?

  6. #306
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceaura View Post
    So you equate a cheap and easily replaced mass produced copy of something with an original and all but irreplaceable work of community effort and devotion ?

    Is that a common Islamic attitude toward the products of such effort and devotion, or is it just you ?
    Clearly you are imposing your belief systems on me. Is that just you, or is it a general trend in your kind?

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    To me both are equal, because both are significant only in that they are symbols which have meaning to people. In themselves, they are just dust and mineral and paper and stone. Perhaps this is a cultural discrepancy, but in India the written word is accorded great respect, as they represent knowledge which is priceless. You can still see people who accidentally step on a piece of paper with writing on it, will immediately pick it up and hold it to their foreheads. This kind of sentiment is very much absent in the west, who apply their own values to our belief systems and then are surprised when we do not share their opinions about them.
    So you are telling me that you honestly think that there is no reason for Palestinians to return to Israel. Ooooo I know that's different. Why? Land is Land. They should settle where they are at and hey everyone happy. The Golden Mosque in Jerusalem can be converted to a Jewish Temple and we can get one with Armageddon.

    Oh, and there is no real good reasonto pray towards Mecca? Mecca Smecca - a place is a place and a space-rock a rock.


    Destroying the Kaaba is exactly the same as destroying a book by Ron Hubbard?

    Is THAT what you are suggesting????

    Basically your point is that THIS:


    is as equally as important as THIS:




    Destroying the World's OLDEST Qur'an and the Kaaba = tearing a Dienetics paper back book


    Are you sure you are being honest SAM??? Destroy every Buddhist Xian Hindu Shinto temple on the planet = tearing out one page from a 2008 paper back Qur'an?


    Riiigghhhtttt,
    Michael

  8. #308
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    So you are telling me that you honestly think that there is no reason for Palestinians to return to Israel. Ooooo I know that's different. Why? Land is Land. They should settle where they are at and hey everyone happy. The Golden Mosque in Jerusalem can be converted to a Jewish Temple and we can get one with Armageddon.

    Oh, and there is no to pray towards Mecca?


    Destroying the Kaaba is exactly the same as destroying a book by Ron Hubbard?

    Is THAT what you are suggesting????

    Basically your point is that THIS:
    /IMG]

    is as equally as important as THIS:



    Destroying the Qur'an and the Kaaba = tearing a Dienetics paper back book


    Are you sure you are being honest SAM??? Destroy every Buddhist Xian Hindu Shinto temple on the planet = tearing out one page from a 2008 paper back Qur'an?


    Riiigghhhtttt,
    Michael
    Can you read?

    That is what tolerance is.

  9. #309
    Sir Vincent, knighted by HM vincent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    Do you see me supporting the destruction of Buddha's statues?

    To me that is equal to tearing a Quran.

    I would call both kinds of people equally moronic.

    I don't think any kind of hate mongering should be supported in a society.

    Wilder=Taliban
    It costs 50 cents to make a Quran, you can print 3 million off in a day, you can burn a million in a day & flush a million down the toilet in a day, you still have a million left & tommorow you can print another 3 million.

    How many of these 2000 year old buddist monuments are there in afghanistan?

    Your comparison is just not there.

  10. #310
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vincent28uk View Post
    It costs 50 cents to make a Quran, you can print 3 million off in a day, you can burn a million in a day & flush a million down the toilet in a day, you still have a million left & tommorow you can print another 3 million.

    How many of these 2000 year old buddist monuments are there in afghanistan?

    Your comparison is just not there.


    If there were 2000 statues of Buddha and only one copy of an ancient book, would it be alright to knock down a few statues?

    Its not about money or profusion nor is it a comparison or a competition, though I doubt you will ever understand.

  11. #311
    OK, then there is no point for the Palestinians to return anywhere.
    Land = Land

    Good, we can all get on with life.

    Michael


    I find it interesting that you SAM, think that ripping a Ron Hubbard paperback in half is the same a burning the world's oldest Qur'an into dust and smashing the Kaaba - huh, go figure.

  12. #312
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    OK, then there is no point for the Palestinians to return anywhere.
    Land = Land

    Good, we can all get on with life.

    Michael


    I find it interesting that you SAM, think that ripping a Ron Hubbard paperback in half is the same a burning the world's oldest Qur'an into dust and smashing the Kaaba - huh, go figure.
    Clearly, you are a confused person. The argument about the Palestinians land is yours, not mine.

    I believe the Quran and Kaaba would be as irrlevant to the Scientologist as Ron Hubbard is to me. But I already guessed from your previous argument of "mutually nonexlusive possibilities of all gods" that you have no idea what tolerance is.

  13. #313
    Sir Vincent, knighted by HM vincent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    If there were 2000 statues of Buddha and only one copy of an ancient book, would it be alright to knock down a few statues?

    Its not about money or profusion nor is it a comparison or a competition, though I doubt you will ever understand.
    Its about time and effort, decades were spent building the pyramids & these monuments in afghanistan, a printing press spent seconds printing off your koran, so in your book it would be ok for me to destroy the pyramids or blow up mecca because someone tears up the bibble or flushes it down the toilet.
    Even though i can buy a million more bibles tommorow.


    You cant replace history & heritage, books are replaceable,

    I doubt you will ever understand that.

  14. #314
    I have no idea what tolerance is? You have made it perfectly clear that the possibly can not even exist that your religious beleif is incorrect. I stated the exact opposite: I may be wrong and you may be correct.

    I'm not sure how you are defining tolerance? The ability to exclude all other beleif system from the realm of reality?

    See here: When it's something that SAM either doesn't think much about or that people claiming to be Muslims have done than we get this "To me both are equal, because both are significant only in that they are symbols which have meaning to people." - all is good. Destroying 2500 year old Buddha statues is the same a ripping a page from a 2008 Qur'an because it's all perspective. There really is no right or wrong thing here guys.

    Well, why not apply this same thinking to Israel? Palestinians don't need to return anywhere as land = land. It's all just in the mind. Certainly young Palestinians who never even lived in Israel - all they have is in their mind. No claim there.

    Michael


    Destroying 2500 year old statues is much worse than ripping a 2008 paperback Qur'an. I think most people will agree. Except Muslims. Muslims think it's at best maybe equal (in one another's minds) and more than likely it's much much much worse to rip the Qur'an!! However, I am sure if we were to ask a Buddhist: Which is worse, Burning a 1000 year old Qur'an or smashing a 2008 Buddha statue coming off a Chinese assembly line, they'd pick the destruction of the Qur'an as being much worse.

    Hmmm we're starting to see another difference here SAM??? No not really, just fit's with everything else.

  15. #315
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    I have no idea what tolerance is? You have made it perfectly clear that the possibly can not even exist that your religious beleif is incorrect. I stated the exact opposite: I may be wrong and you may be correct.

    I'm not sure how you are defining tolerance? The ability to exclude all other beleif system from the realm of reality?

    See here: When it's something that SAM either doesn't think much about or that people claiming to be Muslims have done than we get this "To me both are equal, because both are significant only in that they are symbols which have meaning to people." - all is good. Destroying 2500 year old Buddha statues is the same a ripping a page from a 2008 Qur'an because it's all perspective. There really is no right or wrong thing here guys.

    Well, why not ably this same thinking to Israel? Palestinians don't need to return anywhere as land = land. It's all just in the mind. Certainly young Palestinians who never even lived in Israel - all they have is in their mind. No claim there.

    Michael


    Destroying 2500 year old statues is much worse than ripping a 2008 paperback Qur'an. I think most people will agree. Except Muslims. Muslims think it's at best maybe equal (in one another's minds) and more than likely it's much much much worse to rip the Qur'an!! However, I am sure if we were to ask a Buddhist: Which is worse, Burning a 1000 year old Qur'an or smashing a 2008 Buddha statue coming off a Chinese assembly line, they'd pick the destruction of the Qur'an as being much worse.

    Hmmm we're starting to see another difference here SAM??? not really, just fit's with everything else.

    Clearly, you have no idea what tolerance means.

    Tolerance does not mean I accept all ideas as equal. It means it is okay to have an idea or belief different from mine. Which means that if I have a Buddhist or Scientologist as a neighbor, I will not become a Buddhist or a Scientologist, but nor will I consider it alright to smash any Buddhas or tear out any Ron Hubbard books.

    I will accord him the respect I expect him to have for my beliefs.

    Applied to Palestine, you will find that over 70% of Palestinians want a state that will give equal rights to all religions, while most Israelis want a Jewish state. IOW, the Palestinians are saying my land= your land.
    Last edited by S.A.M.; 02-21-08 at 06:36 PM.

  16. #316
    I mean once you make a few adjustments to your thinking it all fits.
    1) Muslims are always the victims.
    2) Muslims are always good and in the right.
    3) If not then they are not a "real" Muslim.
    4) Muslims are never ever the aggressors.
    5) When being an aggressor it's actually defending the home and liberating the pagan.
    6) The Qur'an is perfect (what ever the hell that means).
    7) Islam is the only correct religion.
    8) Mohammad must be the Last Prophet.
    9) All religions before and after Islam are inherently flawed
    10) As you can see Muslims are paradigm tolerance. (Why in the world everyone from Chinese to Hindu to Thai to Dutch can't seem to get along is Ooo yeah see #1.)

    Pretty much follow this key round and round and everything makes perfect sense in the world - especially on Sciforums.

  17. #317
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    I think its a mental defect resulting from not being born in the East

    To me its very clear and obvious but you just cannot seem to get it.

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    Clearly, you have no idea what tolerance means.
    Clearly so.

    Which is more tolerant?

    To say hello to your neighbor while at the same time teaching your children your nice neighbors beliefs must be wrong.

    OR

    To say hello to your neighbor while at the same time teaching your children your nice neighbors beliefs may be wrong - but they may also be right.

  19. #319
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    I mean once you make a few adjustments to your thinking it all fits.
    1) Muslims are always the victims.
    2) Muslims are always good and in the right.
    3) If not then they are not a "real" Muslim.
    4) Muslims are never ever the aggressors.
    5) When being an aggressor it's actually defending the home and liberating the pagan.
    6) The Qur'an is perfect (what ever the hell that means).
    7) Islam is the only correct religion.
    8) Mohammad must be the Last Prophet.
    9) All religions before and after Islam are inherently flawed
    10) As you can see Muslims are paradigm tolerance. (Why in the world everyone from Chinese to Hindu to Thai to Dutch can't seem to get along is Ooo yeah see #1.)

    Pretty much follow this key round and round and everything makes perfect sense in the world - especially on Sciforums.
    Interesting demonstration of tolerance here by the mutually nonexclusive mutliple possibility accepting Michael


  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    To me its very clear and obvious but you just cannot seem to get it.
    Well SAM why do you suppose most people, from Japan and China to America and Europe see Islam as an intolerant and violent religion? Just one big conspiracy?

    Why is it that Hindu, Thai, Europeans, Chinese, Phillipeans, Spanish, Dutch etc.. etc.. etc.. etc..... have a problem with Muslims living in or near their country? Just one big conspiracy?

    It seems the only people that really feel modern Islam is peaceful are Muslims?
    Go figure,
    Michael

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