Should the US continue it's support of Israel?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by ashura, Feb 10, 2008.

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Should the US continue it's support of the Israel?

  1. Yes

    12 vote(s)
    32.4%
  2. No

    25 vote(s)
    67.6%
  1. ashura the Old Right Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,611
    Should the US continue it's support of Israel? Why or why not?

    Here's a conversation on the topic from a different thread:

    And another:






    I do have a question for spidergoat. You mentioned we're allies with Israel because Israel's enemies are our enemies. Which enemies specifically are you referring to?
     
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  3. ashura the Old Right Registered Senior Member

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    3,611
    Blatant typo in the poll. Can a mod change the second US to Israel?

    Thanks
     
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  5. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    11,529
    Absolutely not. Spidergoat, how is Israel a "natural ally". She is continents away, and does not follow the principles of "all men are created equal".

    Secondly, she is for occupation, something which America in concept is against. She has also cost America much dinero and equipment, and is not profitable in any way. American taxpayer money which could be used to help the countless hungry children in the US instead go to some insignificant nation.

    Thirdly, Israel has done nothing but degenerate the entire region and cause incredible damage and controversy. The US does not benefit from being allies with Israel. Is it to keep the "Arabs in check"? Well, don't worry our empire has passed

    A true American patriot Christian would want a CHRISTIAN HOLY LAND not some jewish-controlled Holy Land.
     
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  7. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    16,479
    no if isreal wants to be agressive like it has we should just let them deal with their own shit
     
  8. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    54,036
    Hamas, Hezbollah, and much of our intelligence gathering in the Middle East depends on cooperation from Israel. Where else would be get people fluent in arabic and willing to help us?
     
  9. invert_nexus Ze do caixao Valued Senior Member

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    9,686
    Aren't all those organizations both existent and our enemies because of Israel?
    You're putting the cart ahead of the horse.
     
  10. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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  11. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    72,825
    Very creative. But is America a Christian state? Does it have a right of return for Christian natives only?

    Oops analogy falls down.
     
  12. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

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    12,061
    If you want to sell Christian/Zionist Manifest Destiny spidergoat, then have the backbone to make a case for it here yourself. Merely tossing out a link in a drive-by hardly merits our serious consideration here.
     
  13. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    Hamas and Hezbollah are enemies of ISRAEL not America. They are only enemies of America due to the fact that you support Israel. Reverse that support, and they wouldn't be much enemies anymore.
     
  14. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    11,529
  15. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    20,285
    I voted no.

    The US should demand that Israel become a totally secular state which does not in anyway distinguish citizens based on religion. The US should do the same to all the other bigoted countries in the ME.
     
  16. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    72,825
    I agree, they should also clamp down on places like Saudi Arabia with ridiculous rules for non-Muslims. And Muslims.
     
  17. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    11,529
    Or rather, kick the "Israelis" off of Palestine and give it back to the real owners.

    Syria is more secular than Israel.
     
  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    72,825
    I think we've done enough kicking off people this century.

    Lets just say enough and start living together now.
     
  19. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    11,529
    And we can do that once we kick the occupiers out
     
  20. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    The easiest way to get rid of occupiers is to make them co-citizens.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  21. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    As a libertarian, I firmly believe that every nation should pay for its own defense. If one has so many strong enemies that it needs its own Death Star to keep them at bay, it needs to spend some time contemplating its bad self and figuring out how it got into that situation.

    Throughout the Middle Ages, Jews were treated better in Muslim lands than they were by Christian nations. The Khazarians actually converted to Judaism in order to ensure peace with the neighboring Muslim kingdoms. Even in the Modern Era, Jews got along better in the Ottoman Empire than they did in most European nations, and even when the Empire collapsed it was their Christian subjects they began exterminating rather than their Jews. This Arab/Israeli, Muslim/Jew antipathy is a recent phenomenon and is centered on the creation of Israel.

    Still it's too facile to put ALL the blame for this situation on the Israelis. It was their traditional persecutors, the European Christians, who set them up for it. It was the U.K. that ended up "owning" Palestine after the downfall of the Ottomans, and in the typical imperious British manner they made a decision they expected the rest of the world to obey. Let's give Palestine to the poor downtrodden Jews! I don't think there's anybody living there now but maybe somebody could send somebody down there to check? No "white" people anyway, and that's all that matters, just a bunch of wogs.

    The rest of Europe was elated with this magnanimous gesture. They were really ashamed of themselves for the way they'd been treating the Jews for a thousand years. Especially when they took it a little too far and tried to kill them all. They were willing to give them anything as a way of saying "We're really sorry about that." Well anything except letting them move back into their old neighborhoods in Vienna, Berlin, Warsaw, Paris, Amsterdam, etc., which is where 99.999 percent of them really wanted to go despite the fact that they were in ruins, because they all thought of themselves as European first and Jewish second.

    Only the Bulgarians opened their hearts to their Jews (they wouldn't even let Hitler put them in concentration camps) and to this day Bulgaria's Jews don't feel like migrating to Israel. Actually the Brits and the Norwegians and some others had also been pretty decent to their Jews, I don't mean to rag on all Europeans, but in general they were not made to feel welcome to "come home." Without that option available, Zionism, which had always been just a wacko fringe movement, began to look more reasonable.

    So the West bears a great deal of responsibility for the situation in the Middle East because the West created Israel.

    It's ironic that the USA is not part of Europe and never bought into the Jewish persecution thing. At times we treated them the way we treated all people who were not Protestants, or all people with recent immigrant roots, or all people who seemed to have an uncanny knack for prospering despite adversity (e.g., our Armenians and Chinese), but they were never treated as badly as Europeans often treat each other, much less those who are truly different. We had very little to do with the establishment of Israel other than voting Yes for it and throwing our money around in that quaint Ugly American way, and Jews were always welcome here. Yet it was we who ended up being Israel's staunchest ally. That was all about the Cold War. We needed one dependable ally in the region that was on Russia's doorstep.

    The bottom line is that whatever the answer is to Israel's problem, it cannot possibly be a military solution. The entire Middle East has a deficit of common sense and it's about time somebody tried bringing it to them. If Israel weren't there, they'd still be frantically trying to kill one another.
     
  22. draqon Banned Banned

    Messages:
    35,006
    Israel should be immediately withdrawn from support

    Israel must be declared war

    Israel must be dealt the same and harsher as Iraq

    terrorists Jews have taken over a country of Palestine, that land must be given back
     
  23. hypewaders Save Changes Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,061
    Another great post well put Fraggle, and I was with you, at least right up to the very last sentence-

    Fraggle Rocker: "If Israel weren't there, they'd still be frantically trying to kill one another."

    At thata point, you completely lost me. Would you please explain the basis for that assumption?
     

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