Dutch Revise Policy Blocking Iranian Students

[S.A.M.]

The Dutch government this week backed away from an antiterrorism policy that had led one university to reject applications from Iranian students and triggered a loud protest among academics. But researchers complain that the revised policy will still make it hard for Iranian scholars and students to study in the Netherlands, and they fear that such policies could spread throughout Europe.

The original policy was the government's attempt to implement a 2006 United Nations resolution that asks all nations to "prevent specialized teaching or training of Iranian nationals … [in] disciplines which would contribute to Iran's proliferation [of] sensitive nuclear activities and development of nuclear weapon delivery systems." Last fall, the Dutch education and foreign affairs ministers told all universities to exercise "vigilance" in admitting Iranian students. In December, the University of Twente in Enschede announced that it would no longer accept Iranian students because the Dutch Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) had asked for a guarantee that Iranians on campus would not gain any sensitive knowledge. Officials at the Eindhoven University of Technology said they would consult Dutch intelligence officials while considering Iranian applicants for admission.

Academics and students protested the new policy, calling it overly broad and discriminatory. Their objections were heard: This week, Twente officials said that INS has agreed to withdraw its demand for a guarantee and that the university would reopen its doors to Iranians. Robert Dekker, a foreign ministry spokesperson, says the government still intends to implement the U.N. resolution by barring Iranian students from admission to certain fields. (Students already enrolled face no such restrictions.) "The ministries and the universities are discussing which studies might fall under the resolution," Dekker told Science. The exclusion could include degree programs that are not directly related to nuclear technology but involve sensitive topics, he says.

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten.../319/5863/556b

[Orleander]

I've never understood why a country can't keep people it doesn't want from entering. It's like if I ran a business and decided to have ladies night and limit the number of men from entering.

[S.A.M.]

Thats not a good analogy.

Its like having a shop with a sign "Jews not allowed"

[GeoffP]

No. That would be religious discrimination, not limitations on immigration. Does no other country have immigration quotas?

[GeoffP]

Also, it appears only to pertain to nuclear technology. Not exactly a sweeping ban.

[S.A.M.]

So much for academic freedom.

Should knowledge be restricted because of the risk that they will apply this knowledge for the wrong reasons?

Who decides who SHOULD be allowed to apply it for the wrong reasons?

[Enmos]

Thats not a good analogy.

Its like having a shop with a sign "Jews not allowed"

It's more like taking some people you pick into your home, and refuse to take in others.
Why should I let someone live in my house if I don't want them there ?

[S.A.M.]

It's more like taking some people you pick into your home, and refuse to take in others.
Why should I let someone live in my house if I don't want them there ?

So you're saying educational institutes should be allowed to decide to reject students on the basis of nationality.

How about color and religion? Gender? Sexual orientation?

[Enmos]

So you're saying educational institutes should be allowed to decide to reject students on the basis of nationality.

How about color and religion? Gender? Sexual orientation?

I'm just saying your analogy is flawed and I provided one that isn't..
What you do with it is up to you.

[S.A.M.]

I'm just saying your analogy is flawed and I provided one that isn't..
What you do with it is up to you.

I showed you where it isn't.

Is a university a home? I can be a sexist, racist, speciest homophobe at home.

Can I open a store like that?

[Enmos]

I showed you where it isn't.

Is a university a home?

Universities aren't relevant, you can go to one in another country and not be an immigrant.

[Enmos]

I showed you where it isn't.

Is a university a home? I can be a sexist, racist, speciest homophobe at home.

Can I open a store like that?

Look, you compare a country to a public place. It isn't.

[S.A.M.]

Universities aren't relevant, you can go to one in another country and not be an immigrant.

Sure but when its a UN resolution and one univeristy is allowed it, whats to stop all universities from following through?

Are we to now permit knowledge to certain groups only?

[S.A.M.]

Look, you compare a country to a public place. It isn't.

It is when its a part of the UN.

WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED
to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and

to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small, and

to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained, and

to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

AND FOR THESE ENDS

to practice tolerance and live together in peace with one another as good neighbours, and

to unite our strength to maintain international peace and security, and

to ensure, by the acceptance of principles and the institution of methods, that armed force shall not be used, save in the common interest, and

to employ international machinery for the promotion of the economic and social advancement of all peoples

[Enmos]

Sure but when its a UN resolution and one univeristy is allowed it, whats to stop all universities from following through?

Are we to now permit knowledge to certain groups only?

What it comes down to is that any country can take measurements for safety of their people.. even if that means keeping out certain groups that are thought to be potentially harmful.
I am not promoting it.. but it's a right a country has..

[S.A.M.]

What it comes down to is that any country can take measurements for safety of their people.. even if that means keeping out certain groups that are thought to be potentially harmful.
I am not promoting it.. but it's a right a country has..

And denying education to a country's residents is now self defence?

If it is so dangerous, why not ban that education everywhere?

[Enmos]

It is when its a part of the UN.

Look I really don't feel like discussing this.
I just corrected your analogy.. maybe I was mistaken, apologies in that case..

[Enmos]

And denying education to a country's residents is now self defence?

[S.A.M.]

I dunno, maybe all education should be banned. Does not seem to lead to a better world, does it?

[GeoffP]

So much for academic freedom.

Should knowledge be restricted because of the risk that they will apply this knowledge for the wrong reasons?

Uh, yeah. Which planet are you living on? Should the Americans have invited Soviet students to study nuclear technology in the 1950s?

Who decides who SHOULD be allowed to apply it for the wrong reasons?

Common sense or national interest.