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Thread: Islam and Terrorism

  1. #441
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soullust View Post
    Why..

    As far as I am concerned the USA is not a terrorist state..

    they do what they do in good intentions not to kill and main innocent People, The USA doesn't Bomb civilian buildings Intentionally, They don't Intentionally bring misery upon Nations?

    That to me IS what defines Terrorism and a terrorist state, The USA is not any of them.
    I recommend two good books

    1. Killing Hope by William Blum
    2. Overthrow by Stephen Kinzer

    Read that along with the peoples history of the US and come back and tell me again with a straight face that the killing is not "intentional".

    My god, the US has thrown nuclear bombs on populated cities. How the frick is that unintentional?

  2. #442
    Registered Senior Member soullust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post

    My god, the US has thrown nuclear bombs on populated cities. How the frick is that unintentional?
    that was a mistake, The USA has and does accept This as a mistake, and I don't think they would ever do it again.

    It is not what a Nation did in the past, I mean Come on If that was the case Canada would be A terrorist state as well for our past treatment of Native Americans..

    But we all learned from our mistakes, and we share this knowledge with the world, so they don't do the same.

    Todays USA is far from a terrorist state,

  3. #443
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soullust View Post
    that was a mistake, The USA has and does accept This as a mistake, and I don't think they would ever do it again.

    It is not what a Nation did in the past, I mean Come on If that was the case Canada would be A terrorist state as well for our past treatment of Native Americans..

    But we all learned from our mistakes, and we share this knowledge with the world, so they don't do the same.

    Todays USA is far from a terrorist state,
    Get an education, bud. With all the information at your disposal, it just makes you sound incredibly ignorant. Read on current US foreign policy, economic policies, the methods they use globally to maintain power, how they destroy entire countries, economies, kill, torture, maim and starve millions of people to sustain "The American Way".

  4. #444
    Registered Senior Member soullust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    Get an education, bud. With all the information at your disposal, it just makes you sound incredibly ignorant. Read on current US foreign policy, economic policies, the methods they use globally to maintain power, how they destroy entire countries, economies, kill, torture, maim and starve millions of people to sustain "The American Way".
    I have an idea, why don't you give me examples?

    current examples.

  5. #445
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soullust View Post
    I have an idea, why don't you give me examples?

    current examples.
    To people like us watching from the sidelines, its like an entire nation of people who don't think or are brain dead. In the last 100 years, there has not been a single year when the US has not been at war. They've overthrown democracies, supported vicious dictators, destroyed third world economies for profit, destroyed their own country by selling out to lobbies. And all with the help of a volunteer army in a country where people supposedly elect their representatives. Tell me, don't you find it incredibly strange that the US is using drones to kill people living in mud huts in Afghanistan? Or that they currently occupy Iraq, a country where for 25 years an American ally held sway as a dictator? Don't Americans ever wonder why they cared that the Vietnamese, who were not Christian to begin with in any large number, should embrace the communist system of politics? Why was it necessary to install a despot as their President? Why it should matter what the Afghans who have the same system of politics for 5000 years - should suddenly be given an American ally as a President, when they don't even believe in Presidential rule?

    Are Americans so dumb?

  6. #446
    disseminated primatemaia StrawDog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceaura View Post
    Yemen is not being coercively Westernized by "invaders". Neither was Pakistan until possibly very recently. And so forth.
    Perhaps Westernization is the wrong word. Let try US & Co domination.
    Incidents of what? And who cares?
    Not my post.

  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    Are Americans so dumb?
    This IS rhetorical right

  8. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by iceaura View Post
    Incidents of what? And who cares?
    Quote Originally Posted by StrawDog View Post
    Not my post.
    ...Ice is just asking for from someone

    btw I'm a former Westernizer of Yemen (2nd generation too)

    Last edited by hypewaders; 07-12-10 at 06:29 AM.

  9. #449
    Bloodthirsty Barbarian
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    The US is the Black Heart of Genocidal Domination, and all Western criticism of anything is transparent Imperialist Propaganda intended to destroy Islam and Palestine in order to enrich the slavish sheeple of The Empire. Their petty bleats of ignorance and good will will earn them no respite from the Pits of Righteous Fire on the Day of Judgement. Their Vile History of Supreme Crime has revealed their True Nature to all virtuous nations, and there remains nothing now except to eagerly await the Righteous Punishment.

  10. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by quadraphonics View Post
    The US is the Black Heart of Genocidal Domination, and all Western criticism of anything is transparent Imperialist Propaganda intended to destroy Islam and Palestine in order to enrich the slavish sheeple of The Empire. Their petty bleats of ignorance and good will will earn them no respite from the Pits of Righteous Fire on the Day of Judgement. Their Vile History of Supreme Crime has revealed their True Nature to all virtuous nations, and there remains nothing now except to eagerly await the Righteous Punishment.

    please justify your accusations

  11. #451
    Bloodthirsty Barbarian
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gustav View Post
    please justify your accusations
    The implication that the Plain Facts of American National Perfidy and Apartheid Genocide are mere "accusations" requiring "justification" is nothing more than Nazi Hasbara designed to protect the timid Hypocrisy of the American Sheeple and their Collaborators, and so leave The Empire free to continue its Ravaging of Palestine. In the name of Justice, I reject this underhanded media framing and hereby Sentence you to Eternal Torments in the Pit of Righteous Punishment.

  12. #452
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    This IS rhetorical right
    Hopefully, not.

  13. #453
    Registered Senior Member soullust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    To people like us watching from the sidelines, its like an entire nation of people who don't think or are brain dead. In the last 100 years, there has not been a single year when the US has not been at war. They've overthrown democracies, supported vicious dictators, destroyed third world economies for profit, destroyed their own country by selling out to lobbies. And all with the help of a volunteer army in a country where people supposedly elect their representatives. Tell me, don't you find it incredibly strange that the US is using drones to kill people living in mud huts in Afghanistan? Or that they currently occupy Iraq, a country where for 25 years an American ally held sway as a dictator? Don't Americans ever wonder why they cared that the Vietnamese, who were not Christian to begin with in any large number, should embrace the communist system of politics? Why was it necessary to install a despot as their President? Why it should matter what the Afghans who have the same system of politics for 5000 years - should suddenly be given an American ally as a President, when they don't even believe in Presidential rule?

    Are Americans so dumb?
    May I be so kind as to ask where you're from, b4 I respond to this ?

  14. #454
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    Sure, I'm Indian. Although I'm not certain what difference that makes to your response.

  15. #455
    Valued Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by 786
    Not what Muslims think.. So when you're asking a Muslim why Islam doesn't have X- when what you think of Islam is different then what they think.. that gets you no where and is a stupid question from the Muslim perspective.
    The "Muslim perspective" would be a couple of bricks shy of a full load, then.

    But not all Muslims are quite that ignorant and oblivious, in my experience. Morals did not begin with the invention of Abrahamic diety and associated religions, or appear only among the suitably theistic in the past, and many Muslims are reasonably well acquainted with that and similar aspects of reality.
    Quote Originally Posted by ja'far
    It appears to be exactly that, in many Muslim communities.

    I'm sure it does to people in the West.
    Yep. And anyone else privileged enough to have benefited from the Enlightenment and similar scientific, intellectual, spiritual, and moral advances of the centuries since Gutenburg.
    Quote Originally Posted by ja'far
    which to me, the situation seems to say more about the opressive nature of the state apparatus than it does about Muslims and Islam.
    I'm just going by what the Muslims on the forum have said about the agreed physical circumstances - which does indeed involve the assumption that you, SAM, Diamandheart, Scifes, and the rest are not clever agents of Western propaganda efforts. Perhaps I am being naive, there.

    It's you guys telling me that burkas and the like are not oppressive of women, because the women don them voluntarily, for example. It's you guys who keep telling me that this or that evil is not attributable to Islam, because the self-described Islamic communities living under self described Islamic law and principles committing them are mistaken in their understanding of the Quran or the principles of Islam.

    So when you tell me that fanaticism and terrorism in Islamic communities is not, as it is in relevantly similar fundie communities in the US and other places, a consequence at least in part of the local religion's influence, you do so from a position of having told me a whole lot of bs in the same vein.

    You appear to have no idea what the influence of Islam is and has been, on your own thinking as apparent here. So - - -
    Quote Originally Posted by soullust
    As far as I am concerned the USA is not a terrorist state..
    The recommendation of the book, by Hype, can save you from further assertions based on an apparently total lack of relevant information - an expansion of your "concern" is overdue.

  16. #456
    Registered Senior Member soullust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    Sure, I'm Indian. Although I'm not certain what difference that makes to your response.
    One, You're geography only allows you to see part of the big picture, Sure the USA has and probably will Have to resort to Un-Ethical tactics In the future, Every Super-power/Empire what ever through out history had to, did you ever hear the saying.

    with great Power comes great responsibility?

    well dude The USA has A lot on It's shoulders, It is The Champion of democracy, The world Police, The USA donates more to charities then any nation on earth.

    And even though I don't agree with the USA all of the time when it comes to International policies.

    I can all so see The good they have and continue to do for the world.

    Heck How many Jobs In India are created by The USA..Do You think India could ex-cert Power any where on this Planet at any given moment?

    You should be Thank full the USA is defending your democracy, and has all through out the Cold WAR.

    And People seem To forget, The USA And Canada, And The UK And France backed Iraq Because they were at war with Iran, The soviet union backed Iran during that war.

    SO NATO Backed Iraq, because it was In the best Interest of our Nations to Protect all Of our democracies, Once the Cold war died, Saddam got out of hand he had to be removed, But At least the USA and the west will Stay back and Rebuild a nation at great cost to it's own People,

    Again THE USA IS FAR FROM A TERRORIST STATE. And if you consider them terrorists, You might as well be calling all of us in the west terrorists.

  17. #457
    Searching for Truth 786's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceaura View Post
    The "Muslim perspective" would be a couple of bricks shy of a full load, then.

    But not all Muslims are quite that ignorant and oblivious, in my experience. Morals did not begin with the invention of Abrahamic diety and associated religions, or appear only among the suitably theistic in the past, and many Muslims are reasonably well acquainted with that and similar aspects of reality.
    Who said morals began with religion? Secondly if you don't understand the idea that religion of God started with Adam who predates Muhammad then its not my fault. And most Muslims consider all the prophets 'Muslim' (must be Islam then? )

    You don't have to agree with this view, although I don't know why its a 'full load' if one believes in a continuation of message.

    Peace be unot you

  18. #458
    Valued Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by 786
    Secondly if you don't understand the idea that religion of God started with Adam who predates Muhammad then its not my fault. And most Muslims consider all the prophets 'Muslim' (must be Islam then? )
    Not all Muslims take the various myths and metaphors of the religion literally, as assertions of historical fact.

    The question is whether the communities of those who do have influences similar to other relevantly similar communities of relevantly similar religions, as appears to be the case.

    Abetting the rise of fanatical terrorism, in the appropriate circumstances (overt threat to the system of literal beliefs and traditional oppressions, say) being one of those influences.

  19. #459
    Searching for Truth 786's Avatar
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    Okay

    Peace be unto you

  20. #460
    Registered Senior Member Big Chiller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceaura View Post
    Not all Muslims take the various myths and metaphors of the religion literally, as assertions of historical fact.
    What do you mean myths of the religion.

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