Aussies and Americans, though we speak the same language and are both former British Colonies, seem to butt heads a lot around here. Indeed, we are often baffled by things our counterparts do and say. After an interesting conversation with Asgard regarding social justice, I did a bit of research into the history of Australia. I came across an article comparing the two cultures that was quite interesting. While I already knew that Australia was originally a penal colony. I had never really considered how the different origins of our two nations might affect our thinking on a variety of issues. The article opens with this quote: "Americans maintain their sense of being God's own country with a manifest destiny to lead the world to freedom and democracy. Australia has no global ambitions, and those related to the region are for stability and economic advancement rather than dominance" - John LangmoreAnd goes on to say: Consider patriotism. This story illustrates the point: "Polishing your ass" with the US flag would, no doubt, piss off most of the class in America. Certainly more than one guy. And I doubt many would have laughed. Periodically, an attempt is made to pass a constitutional ammendment to ban flag desecration in the US. While it has never passed, it does keep popping up. The article suggests that the convict origins of Australia as opposed to the heroic stories of Pilgrims and Founding Fathers in the US accounts for the strong patriotism in the US and lack of it in Australia. The article goes on to consider the Puritan founders of the US, and the strong Puritanical black/white thinking in the US verses the convict "shades of grey" thinking in Australia. Americans prize individualism and excellence. The result? Australia, on the other hand, has the Tall-poppy syndrome. While the US was founded by people with a deep respect for religion, in many cases, by people who left Europe for the freedom to practice their religion, Australians have long held religion in low regard: And while in the US even liberal candidates (leftists) suddenly start going to church during a campaign, in Australia: "Any political candidate who declared God was on his side would be laughed off the podium as an idiot or a wowser." Robert Hughes: And here are a few amusing quotes on Australia v/s America: Australians have a tendency to be loud and obnoxious when they are beered up, which in my experience, is much of the time. They're descendants from pockets and cut purses, and as we all know, the acorn doesn't fall far from the tree. Michael Carey - American As a result of all this hardship, dirt, thirst, and wombats, you would expect Australians to be a dour lot. Instead, they are genial, jolly, cheerful, and always willing to share a kind word with a stranger, unless they are an American. Douglas Adams - English There is something of the cowboy in every American, but a little bit of the sheep station in most Australians Matthew Parris - English http://www.convictcreations.com/culture/yankaussie.htm The article does seem to explain a lot. The distain for religion, the lack of patriotism, the respect for international organizations, the "shades of grey" thinking. Anyway, I'm certainly no expert on Australia. But many on this forum are. Please feel free to correct any errors, misconceptions, or whatever. Comments?
I love the timing of this thread, The Australian of the year awards are currently being announced (oh and please don't take offence to anything said here, all of the rough language is tongue in cheek) Well you have given me a lot to work with and I'm sorry if this is not in any particular order, just kind of as it comes into my head On the development of the country Firstly most of Australia's first European colonist's, were IRISH with English solders, not British colonist's. When Australia was first colonized Ireland was in the grip of the potato famine so a lot of poor Irish farmers came out after the poor Irish criminals that were shipped out to start with. Then we had the gold rush and a LOT of chiness immigrants came into the country at this point. One related point on the difference between the US and Australia is that we never rebelled against the English. We became a country by a vote and we (NOT the US) are actually the longest running uninterrupted democracy. We also never warred among ourselves. The closest we have ever come to war was the Eureka stockade. This was where the gold diggers, rebelled against the tax's imposed upon them. The result of this action was the lower house of the Victorian parliament. Tall-poppy syndrome This is something that gets a lot of press but most of it is incorrect. Greg Norman isn't despised because he is successful. Its because hes a wankerPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image! We are probably one of the countries that most worship our sport. We treat football (that's REAL Football, not that ponsi thing called soccer) as a religion. I remember when i was undergoing my confirmations in the Melbourne Cathedral the Archbishop of prayer for the Bombers to win the Grand final. It was quite amusing that at one of the catholic church's most sacred ceremonies there highest church official in Victoria had his mind on the football. We actually admire those who strive in science or sport. We are proud of our the fact that we actually punch above our weight in science, sports ect. From memory i believe our economy is 3 trillion rather than whatever the US's is yet we have been responsible for some of the greatest achievements in the world. Some of these include the Hills Hoist Clothes line, The Victor mower, the bionic ear, penicillin, and the recent invention of the cervical cancer vaccine On Politics, and the law: We have followed England much more closely than the US have. This maybe due to the peaceful handover of power from England to the Australian people. If you took some of our right wing Politicians and put them into America they would be considered left wing. Because of the peaceful transfer we hold very little suspicion of our governments. Not to say that our pollies don't lie or that we trust THEM we don't, but we realise that there is help available from government agencies. This is because that is what we EXPECT from them. We don't pay the government to build a big army. Infact i have herd it said by US generals that they don't even consider the Australian army to be a real army. They consider them to be a VERY large and versatile special forces. We just don't have the people to staff a huge army. What we DO expect the government to be there for is to support those who need it. We have a universal health care system and Free primary and secondary schools. The government pays a large percentage of our UNI costs as well, which leads me to research. We support one of the best research organisations in the world, the CSIRO. CSIRO is a government funded organization which works in all areas from medicine to climate change, from working with NASA on rocket tech to private companies R&D One further difference between the US and us are our voting regulations Firstly we have a parliamentary system where the executive has to hold a majority of the seats in the lower house of parliament and the ability to pass supply through the senate. We also have compusery voting so our pollies are interested in getting the swinging voters rather than getting people to vote. In my opinion this has pushed our pollies to the center rather than to the far left and right. We also have preferential voting which means that a vote for a minor party isn't a waisted vote and the minor parties do quite well in the senate. They are an essential part of our politics as they provide balance between the government and opposition On Patriotism Although John Howard wanted to bring in anti-flag burning legislation no one was interested except a few in the far right. We show our patriotism in 3 ways. Respect for the ANZAC tradition (and yes that means we have to associate with the sheep rooters too) Worship of sport Helping those in need If you asked most Australians to show there country was better than yours we would quote you the fact that we have been the world champions in cricket for god knows how long, that we are the world champions in netball ect we show national pride though people like Ian Thorpe and Pat Rafter because unlike Greg Norman they have stayed true to the country. Rafter has done so much charity work that he deserves the recognition, what has Norman put back into the country? On Religion Your right about our attitude to religion in politics. We believe in a separation between church and state and "because god told me to" is not a valid policy justification. EVIDENCE based policy is what we respect. On attitude We are a very laid back country, we love sport to a religion without the violence you see in Europe and in spite of some recent incidence race is quite a low issue in this country. The laws in this country prevent discrimination in ALL walks of life. In the US a company can stop a gay employee from getting a job based on the fact that he is gay, in Australia that's against the law. Hell if the KKK started a branch here they would probably lose a suit against them for stopping Aboriginals or Immigrants ect from being able to joinPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image! We not only have a disrespect to authority figures, we also have a disrespect for other countries and each other Victorians and NSW tease each other SA feels left out so tries to make fun of the Vic's Tassie is the but of every joke for being so inbreedPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ect We also think that NZ is full of people who would rather sleep with there sheep than there wives in spite of the fact that we have more sheep per head of population than they do The bloody poms are useless at cricket, they cant play it and they invented it. Americans are all a bunch of yanks ect Our primary exports are our brains, our schools and farming produce and mining. The darker side of Australia is our treatment of Aboriginals who now have a 20 year lower life expectancy than the rest of the population. It is sad when compared to the fact that Victoria, NSW and SA were the first places in the world to give women the vote and the right to stand in parliament Well if i think of anything else i will post it later
It's amazing what you learn about your own country every day. I would disagree that the worship of sport is an uniquely Australian value. For instance there was no Olympic team/ facilities until the 70s. Perhaps our worship of sports is temporary. Although sport does play a major part in the country, it is by no means permanently a trait. It is a shame, that although we consider disrespect for authority figures an endearing trait, and one that allows better leaders to succeed, on the international stage we pretty much are just another country. following the leads of the US. The recent changes to our foreign policy are insignificant compared to our history of following the US. Our sovereignity is valued, as it is compulsory to vote. Yet we do not exercise our soveriegnity on the international arena, besides border security and a few goodwill UN missions here and there. I would argue that while Australia is attempting to be multicultural, and has not had many problems in that regard,
Computer: first stored-program electronic computer designed by Tom Kilburn, British. Internet: devised by Tim Berners-Lee, British Aeroplane: first flight by heavier-than-air machine, 1853; designer Sir George Cayley, British.
Fuck, I give up ( how Aussie can ya get?, just made a long-winded post which made like Greg Norman or at least " Crag Parry" and choked before taking the green jacket. I even made dispariging remarks about Hollywood... I'm suspecting the CIA at this stage. Armrellyfarkinbissedorvyacunce! First Seppoe to decipher that wins a free giveyazelfanubbercut invitation courtesy of the kind benevolence of Shpardemprah.
I didn't know that the Eureka Stockade led to the lower house of parliment. Must have taught that in Primary school.. (I missed out.. )
Really ? We speak the same language ? Trying listening to Spud when he's in country mode. Theres a huge difference between the city and the country here. You might say we mostly speak the same language. but disagree over spelling.
I feel I have a much better understanding of Australian thinking after reading the article referenced in the OP and the responses in the thread. I'd like to hear from some other Aussies. I also came across this bit that I think is hilarious: So to this day, you celebrate a festival whose name means "stick it up your ass"? LOL
Challenger78 i have to say i shortended that story slighly. It lead to the current representive lower house. Im not sure if there actually WAS a lower house before then but the common miners were not reperented in parliment at all untill after it. Sorry if i misslead you thought you were going to say you didnt know about penicillin or somethingPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
i will try to get some more infomation on the reforms after Eureka if your interested. Its been YEARS since i went there but mum should still have all the stuff (she colects things like that for her school kids)
I've been looking it up on wiki, We've always had a strong workers movement, since a majority of Australians (and in any country) are working class.
its such a pitty that vandle poisened the tree of knowlage. The labor party is such an inportant part of our history
Fairly interesting. I'd say Australian's have become quite patriotic in recent years. Very recent years, probably the last 10 years, and I'd say it is mostly derived from Australia's sporting achievements. It's interesting and almost creepy to consider how deeply seeded American patriotism is. I've often wondered why, even the most lefty liberal americans, will often, when pushed, get defensive about America. It's always taken me by surprise when the people so extremely vocal about the flaws of their country, who take up the job of arguing it is horrible to right wing conservatives, are never quite so "hardcore" to go all the way into saying it's actually a shit country. They'll go to a point and then stop and say "I know it's the best country in the world, it just annoys me sometimes", or "it's because I love it I want to fix it". No american genuinely hates america in the way every non-american does. And even the way semi-disapproving of America persists in america as a "cool" and "edgy" pasttime amongst young people is indicative of how deeply seeded patriotism is in american culture. It's like "whoa, this is so wrong *hyperventilate with excitement*", I never really understood. As an Australian criticising the government to me doesn't seem exciting or cool, it's boring actually, and lame. Makes you sound like an old bogan. I think that's another reason patriotism is starting to well up in Australia, it's mostly amongst young people and it's almost a counter-culture. I'd like to point out that only %20 of Australians descend from convicts, and this isn't due to recent immigration, most convicts that came to Australia actually went back to britain, britain also sent more convicts to America than it did to Australia (which eventually lead to Benjamin Franklin threatening to send rattlesnakes to britain) and more people migrated to Australia by their own free will in the 19th century. That said, the convict impact on Australian culture was considerable and the explanations of Australian mentality stemming from the convicts are sound. I suppose it's like how the Aboriginal impact on Australian culture was huge even though there's never been that many of them. Lower class english and irish criminals and Aborigines are more charismatic than uppety well to do brits, so their mannerisms and way of speaking are mimmiced more and passed down to kids more readily and thus spread through the culture. To be honest the opening post just leaves me feeling like America is way weirder than I ever realised. It's almost like a Ned Flanders cult, which treats the nation itself as a god-like figure that is accompanied by a peculiar set of ideals and dilusions. And even the most radical of it's populace are still somewhat brainwashed and indoctrinated. That said, it works, people do seem to strive harder to achieve, and every fat headed moron seems to go to college in America. America seems to celebrate every little skill some loser might have as a valuable cog to the machine, it seems to be a very organised country where everyone has their eye on the prize. Australian's definately are, by comparison, apathetic and lacking focus, just floating through life. There's no bigger plan for the good of the country in the back of their minds, they're just people who happen to be on a lump of dirt protruding from the sea. But there's something so much more normal and human about that ... It's easy to see why Americans so readily adapt to the theatrics of film and television, I've always noticed that just one american can make an australian television program or movie seem so much more legit as a piece of entertainment. Americans, even in real life, come across as characters from a movie to me. There's an odd blankness in the back of their eyes and then it's contrasted by the bizarrely significant and over the top way they experience everything. There's no restraint on their emotions, and if there is, they make it really obvious they're restraining an emotion so ultimately nothing goes unsaid. It's like they're a character in a novel with colourful words around their dialogue, letting the reader know they are in fact restraining themselves from showing a particular emotion. They're always "on", they seem to all believe their life is a movie no one happens to be producing yet, and I'm starting to realise it's because the founding of their country and the history of their country and the subsequent culture of their country is all like one big self-important overly-dramatic production. You can say "Australians are like this because of this and that", but really australians aren't that different to British people and people from other british colonies (not new zealanders though, they seriously do have an inferiority complex). Each has their quirks, but there's a shared foundation of normalness, with only superficial frills on tips of the differing cultures. I've met people from everywhere, if I go out on the town and come across irish people for example we tend to just shit ourselves laughing all night, I talk to south africans around my neighbourhood all the time and they're just normal people, you forget about the accent very fast. For that matter pitch black African's from equatorial guinea don't stand out as culturally too different to me as a white australian. There are definately differences, South africans are excessively unemotional and stoic for example, and like I said new zealanders all feel embarrassed about coming from new zealand and always yabber on about how good new zealand is to make it less embarrassing for them. But Americans are unusually different to everyone in a very bizarre way. They're kind of detached from other english speaking countries, it's like they're not in on a joke that everyone else gets. Don't get me wrong, there are other countries which are even weirder, but they have the excuse of being fundamentally different distant cultures, I'm talking about asian and eastern european cultures. What's strange to me is when I meet people from Ghana or papua new guinea they seem to be on this wavelength that australians, and brits, and south africans are on, and americans are not. I've met machete-wounded tribesmen and there's that intangible human something in the connection when you meet and interact which I just don't get from Americans. And the truth is, as far as non-americans go I get along with americans way better than most. I know how to appeal to the american sense of humour, it kind of boils down to over-acting out silly situations, I can meet americans and make them laugh and they can make me laugh, but then after a while the realisation sets in "wait... you're like this all the time?", and it's creepy that americans are basically always overacting, they over-act their lives. And you'll notice in american movies there will be performances that are supposed to be understated but the understatement itself is grossly overstated, they just can't be anything else. The american version of the office, I love it, it's a hilarious show. But the "awkward moments" just aren't awkward, you don't cringe because it's so not real, unlike the british office. It's purely because it's american people, americans do cringe while watching it, to them it seems realistic, but american actors can't ever be good enough to seem real to non-americans. Real americans don't seem real to non-americans in real life. And it's interesting to think the theatrics and drama, the phoniness of americans, is actually instilled in the foundation of the country. That's what seperates America from everywhere else, some crazy idealistic people actually set out to make a great country. It's so romantic and dramatic, and now the whole existence of the country and it's people is like a shit american movie.
That is an important point. But doesn't Australia still have some connection to England? Do you still recognize the Queen as your ruler? Your navy is the Royal Australian Navy, isn't it? The fact that you never rebelled is important, the same goes for Canada. But your convict heritage makes you guys a bit more down to earth than those stick up the ass Canadians. Tall-poppy syndrome Hey, even Jesus had this problem. So you Aussies are in good company: I took a quiz on Australian politics once. It was one of those "select your candidate" deals. On many of the questions, there was no choice far enough to the right for me! Yes, it's a little strange that all of your animus seems to be focused on the church. Those early Christians in Australia must have been some real bastards. If that's true, it's a pretty good way to go these days. The days of massed armies clashing in open battle may be over. But there will always be a need for good special forces. Big difference there. We expect the government to fuck up whatever it's involved in. The only part of government we respect is the military and NASA. That part is not all that different. We have free public schools up to grade 12. Some states have free college, most do not. But anyone can get student loans and/or grants. There's no reason any qualified person can not go to college in the US. I suppose our universities fill that function to a large extent. I don't support compulsory voting at all. I think that's a horrible idea. It simply serves to dilute the power of those who would have voted without compulsion. Frankly, I think we ought to consider some kind of test before people are allowed to vote. How does that work? What does that mean? I think you're reaching here. Helping those in need is good to do, but not evidence of love of country, per se. Ever read Douglas Adams bit on the origins of Criket? Americans from different states tend to tease each other. And almost everyone makes fun of Kentucky. Ever see the show Flight of the Concords? It's about a third rate band from New Zealand trying to make it in New York. They really hate the guys from Australia and are always getting into arguments with them.
I was in Australia 4 years ago. Scratch a few token cultural differences and there isn't much difference. My sister lives in Canberra and Canberra is no more different from L.A. than Spokane is. The same culture....fast food, cars, television, etc. Take off the veneer and more or less the same. Differences are either 'forced' or superficial. It's easy to exaggerate differences...the USA has 304 million people but for the most part differences within the USA are a lot more pronounced than differences between middle America and Australia (or Canada). NYC isn't Texas and Miami isn't Dodge City.
OK first for preferential voting Say you have 5 candiates for the House of Reps you number each box 1 to 5 in the order that you perfer, from the candiate you most prefer to the candate you least prefer then when all the votes are counted the one with the smalest amount of primary votes gets eliminated and all there second preferences are distributed to the other 4 ect until one candiate has 50% of the votes plus 1 The senate is more complicated and if you really want to know i will leave it to james to explain it because he can symplifie it better than i can I have herd it said that Australia is closest to californina in atiude, also funny enough there accent is closest to ours as well
