I was reading theist views about evolution when I thought - How the hell could somebody deny evolution!!? Their view was like so: "HAHA evolution, what a farce. We came from monkeys? I think not!" And it was said by someone I know actually (in RL). That was a while ago and I haven't really been able to talk to them about it... So I've come here. How could anybody deny evolution! It isn't a theory. It is a fact, like gravity. Although gravity isn't the greatest analogy since it isn't biological. But you get the idea (and you cannot deny that!). There is hard evidence of evolution. 100%. White Moths in Europe evolved to change colour to have better protection in the soot during the industrial revolution. And animals everywhere, including humans, show other examples. There is Darwin's Theory of Evolution, which is a theory. But most of it is correct (natural selection) for sure. But when theists deny evolution, are they denying my former statements, or just the latter?? Evolving from monkeys was one of the said theorys mentioned. Although FYI, the theory doesnt say we evolved from monkeys, but we evolved beside them from some common ancestor (as i remember the theory anyways). The moth story was an example of micro evolution. So the theist could deny macro evolution right??? WRONG. Macro evolution is just lots of micro evolution... LOTS. So you can't deny macro evolution and then say micro evolution makes sense. (Some good examples of macro evolution would be bears, they don't go back too far so we have a nice 'bear tree' of the different species.) Does biblical creation say that evolution can't exist? Some theist calculated that each 'day' of creation was really 7000 years. And according to him, the world was only 50000 years old. Do you theists believe in dinosaurs? Back to creation though, I think that people needing to believe that somebody had to design the universe is pretty weak.. You HAVE to explain everything?? (the bible says the earth is flat) I think the big bang theory is pretty good, its only a theory, however. And maybe we don't really need to know how the universe was created. It's probably something our human brains can't comprehend. -- So, the main question is, what do any of you theists believe about evolution? (Only talk about creation if you must!) Edit: I quickly skimmed over what I just wrote, and found a bunch of grammer errors.. specifically conjugations and particles.. Exuse me, but I'm tired.
Sounds like deja vu talking about this. But it's ok. Here I go.... Because it's still not convincing enough. Both theories wich supports evolution and wich deny it still in progress. That's all. I am theist, but not christian. Islam not says that earth is flat. Qur'an even says that moon, earth, and sun have their own paths. It says that earth is a such of "space ship" cruises around solar system. Qur'an describe the beginning of universe very similar with big-bang theory. You can see more convincing about scientific prooves in Islam here. There are much-much more convincing stuffs rather than that evolution crap. Then you can tell me is it just a blind faith? :bugeye:
Actually, there is some debate over whether macroevolution is just accumulated micro-evolution. Mac-e could have its own mechanisms that are not involved in Microevolution. Mostly speculation, though. Using the term theist is somewhat inaccurate, a good proportion(if not most) theists believe in evolution. Creationists can believe anything they put their mind to*. I have just spent 45minutes trying to convince a creationist that the geologic column is not the work of Satan and his geologists. * Or don't put their mind to, more accurately.
They believe in Dinosaurs alright. Apparently they all went on the Ark and then became extinct. And miraculously all their fossils got distributed in the Mesozoic.
Ismu: That site about the Qur'aan shows that the Qur'aan speaks in VERY generalised ways. And then the site goes to explain everything while applying modern science to it to show that the things the Qur'aan say wouldn't make any sense if it hadn't known of the ideas that modern science(has). But the fact is, the Qur'aan probably wasn't correct, and people are just trying to prove it anyways, because they are mindless zealots. For example: Just because the Qur'aan knows that spiders webs are flimsy, doesn't say much! (thats the prove that the websites author is quite biased) For example again: The Qur'aan says that god made people from water... And the site says that, "tada!! people are 80% water the Qur'aan was right!".. However you could also argue that we are ONLY 80% water. And that we are made up of more than that. Lots of primitive cultures used water as a symbol of life. AND THEN, just because the Qur'aan MAY have know a little bit about science, doesn't prove god exists! But I don't really want to say TOO much untill I can read arabic, because only then can i really evaluate the Qur'aan... the author of the website seems to take the most convenient translations whenever possible. One last note: The Qur'aan also justifies violence to cleanse the world in many many places, "Surah 9: ayat 123. Believers! make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you. ", a little bit of science doesn't justify that. So I guess I'm quite skeptical about it too Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Infact, I'd say it's also a bunch of BS, and would sit next to the Christian's Holy Bible on my shelf. Voodoo Child: What you said about macro evolution sounds interesting. I must be getting talking to all the wrong theists, because I haven't met many who believe in macro evolution (and if you go by what I already said about it, that seems illogical). But these are usually ministers or internet denizens. Damn those satanic geologists eh? I wish they'd just leave well enough alone (a certain religion's utter lack of comprehension for one). The best thing an atheist can do with her/his live is spend time on christian chat rooms in IRC Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Contrary to popular belief, they won't try and convert you...! But if you pretend to be confused they might make fools of themselves. How did Noah fit so many animals onto his Ark! And them he expects them to live with one tiny (about a foot squared) window?? What a bastard! A smart one though, as he managed to count millions of species within a short period of time, and check their gender!
I think you're missing the point here. Qur'an IS NOT the book of science. The main purpose is guide poeple to be better people. It only give SOME PROVES of it's truth. The first word when Qur'an revealed is "READ!". It also means "LEARN!". Learn from the the world He created. And we'll found that it match it. Qur'an must be fin on any ages/era of human's understanding. What is gonna happen if it tells in details about atoms 1400 years ago? (???). Btw, there IS some detailed info about medical science in Qur'an, take a look at the Embryology in previos link. IT IS proves that God exists. “If ye realise this not, ask Of those who possess the Message.” [Al-Qur’aan 16:43 & 21:7]. But I think talking about it gonna be out of topic here. Remember what it says about people don't want to think? “Deaf, dumb and blind, They will not return (To the path).” [Al-Qur’aan 2:18]. It means if you don't wanna know what you see and hear, you gonna missed right direction. That's much better. I find lot's of people do not even want to know about it. Again, far away out of topic. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I think you're talking using your emotion. I don't know about that surah. I wander where did you get it. :bugeye: I got to ceck it out (gonna takes times). Perhaps it revelated in the war. (To interprete Qur'an also must conside the history behind it's revelation). But if you're sure it's right, better to start another topic, so we're kept on the track here.
jjhlk, It was bothering my mind. Sorry for out of topic for a while. The true translation is not like yours. It was like this: "O ye who believe! Fight the unbelievers...let them find firmness (harshness) in you and know that Allah is with those who fear Him." Surah 9:123 And I was right that, that surah/ayat was revealed in the war condition. It was to defend, not starting the war. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I actually had a few conversations with someone I met in an msn chat room about evolution, she originally didn't believe in it at all, but as the months wore on (so to say) she changed her mind to the whole macro-micro evolution thing that seems so popular these days. I came up with a great analogy to describe these two things: Micro evolution is like one frame of a movie and macro evolution is the entire film. After I said this she didn't really comment on it...
Ismus: The copy I was reading was quite violent! But it was released in response to all that 9/11 crap so I can't be sure of it's validity.
Check to see who the publisher of that Koran is. If it says "CNN" or "FBI" on it, it isn't a very trustworthy text. :lol
