Do We Need the Wisdom of the East ?

[kmguru]

Stick to the easy stuff and you bre ok. Over and out

He is baaaack....and here I thought, you left for good...could not stand the heat...this would be very interesting...This place did not have this much fun since I started this sub-forum. You are in my domain...think about it...

Before venturing into philosophy, try getting a decent education as a foundation.

I have two Bachelors, one Masters and one Ph.D. You know what Ph.D stands for ...don't you?

[Myles]

He is baaaack....and here I thought, you left for good...could not stand the heat...this would be very interesting...This place did not have this much fun since I started this sub-forum. You are in my domain...think about it...



I have two Bachelors, one Masters and one Ph.D. You know what Ph.D stands for ...don't you?

Ph is potential hydrogen and I guess yours is on the low side. So you want to browbeat me with your academic qualifications. Well, anything is worth a try when you have nothing better to offer. Insults and boasting are very effective ways of conducting a dialogue. Is that part of your Eastern wisdom ?

As I understand it, starting a forum does not confer infallability, although you may disagree. You may find this unbelievable but I have been to uni also and one thing I learned was that claims must be supported by evidence . I have seen little evidence here to support Eastern wisdom.

I suggested a few posts ago that we should draw the line under this discussion. I relented but you may take this as my last post on this thread, make of it what you will. Go talk to Britney and you will be on the right level.

[kmguru]

Ph is potential hydrogen and I guess yours is on the low side. So you want to browbeat me with your academic qualifications. Well, anything is worth a try when you have nothing better to offer. Insults and boasting are very effective ways of conducting a dialogue. Is that part of your Eastern wisdom ?

Why are you so hyped up?

Go talk to Britney and you will be on the right level.

Insults and boasting are very effective ways of conducting a dialogue. Is that part of your Western wisdom?

You may find this unbelievable but I have been to uni also

So you want to browbeat me with your academic qualifications? I could have said "You did? Unbelievable!" But that would be an insult. You are a guest here. I rarely insult or boast in my forum. I can do that in other forums though. So, if you are here to learn something about Eastern Philosophy, you are welcome to stay...and if I ofended you, my apologies.....if not sayonara...zai jian...

[kmguru]

Just in...

Video - Broadcast UK - Channel 4 - Dec 26, 2007

Theologian Dr Robert Beckford investigates amazing parallels to the Christ story in other faiths, some of them predating Christianity by thousands of years. The Hindu god, Krishna, was conceived by a virgin and his birth was attended by angels, wise men and shepherds. Buddha was also the result of a miraculous birth and visited by wise men bearing gifts. Beckford attempts to unravel the mystery of why there are so many versions of the Christ story across the world and asks which is the real one.

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle18973.htm

[Frud11]

ideas that are alien to the West.

That part-statement is almost devoid of meaning.
(so much so that I forgot who posted it)

[sowhatifit'sdark]

Speaking of constructivism…

For knowledge has to depend on something in order to be appropriate, and that which it depends on is never fixed. (Taoist: Zhuangzi, 4th century)

Thought this fit this thread and perhaps Greenberg’s gap elsewhere with Q.

What am I missing?

When?
In what context?
What do you in fact miss?

Or did you mean….

Prove to me I am missing something and if you cannot to my satisfaction then I am not missing something
AND
this means there is nothing there to be missed

and the undercurrent assumed timeless and universal relevance comes to the fore.

Not to mention the interpersonal message.

What do you in fact miss?

(this seems to me, perhaps, a place things could have gone better for me – this in response to Greenberg’s request that we evaluate the process of response. An immediate shift to getting the context of the request rather than taking the question as the initiation of a task for me. Then to stay on that context-seeking until it is resolved.)

[Myles]

Just in...

Video - Broadcast UK - Channel 4 - Dec 26, 2007

Theologian Dr Robert Beckford investigates amazing parallels to the Christ story in other faiths, some of them predating Christianity by thousands of years. The Hindu god, Krishna, was conceived by a virgin and his birth was attended by angels, wise men and shepherds. Buddha was also the result of a miraculous birth and visited by wise men bearing gifts. Beckford attempts to unravel the mystery of why there are so many versions of the Christ story across the world and asks which is the real one.

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle18973.htm

You have tempted me one last time. I saw the documentary here in the UK a few evenings ago but I cannot understand why you are referring to it. Perhaps you believe that what is a discovery to you is not known to others. Such stories have circulated for ages. From my perspective as an atheist it makes no difference whether there was one Jesus or 99. Nonsens is nonsense whatever its origin. It might be of some interest to Greenberg who seems to have problems with Roman Catholicism.

As to qualifications, I was only paying you back in your own coin. I have not felt the need to say anything about my background up to now.

Can you not understand one simple thing: If you cannot adduce evidence to support an argument, shouting about your qualifications from the rooftop does nothing but weaken your position. "Believe me because I'm qualified " makes a fine basis for an academic debate.

Kmguru suggests you have a mission to teach the misguided. Had I only noticed that earlier., I would have sat at your feet and taken notes. I could have been your "glasshopper"

[sowhatifit'sdark]

That part-statement is almost devoid of meaning.
(so much so that I forgot who posted it)

I agree with you. I can't speak for the one who said it, but I would like to mention that in the context of a discussion where one person is saying, basically, that the Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese, Malyasian etc. cultures have nothing to offer someone from the West since anything of value has already been found in the Western Intellectual Tradition some counter-generalizations may occur, especially given that the West has already absorbed some of these ideas and so they are not so 'foreign' any more.

It includes a phenomenon somewhat like a Vietnamese person, who having watched the Simpsons on cable for a while, thinks the West has nothing to teach them about humour or animation because they have the Simpsons in Vietnam.

[Gustav]

yes
you have an intuitive grasp of whatnots. welcome and stick around
deconstruct the slogan, Western Intellectual Tradition. por favor
schools of thought., differing emphasis

i note..anglo-american/continental/arabic
not diametrically opposed yet not entirely complementary

thoughts?

pardon
most excellent analogies too

[sowhatifit'sdark]

yes
you have an intuitive grasp of whatnots. welcome and stick around
deconstruct the slogan, Western Intellectual Tradition. por favor
schools of thought., differing emphasis

i note..anglo-american/continental/arabic
not diametrically opposed yet not entirely complementary

thoughts?

pardon
most excellent analogies too

can't take this personally or even know to whom it refers...

but it does raise the issue of ottoman and arabic cultures that once were broader, more cosmopolitan and included both the West and the East and served as a bridge between...
were they Eastern
did
'we' become Eastern when 'influenced' by and scavenging through north African texts?
Did Native Americans become Western when they walked over?
Should we give back the potato and Iriquois notions of democracy?
And what
of the Russians?
Would I really be the same man without the Brothers K
and Checkov's short stories.
And what can we learn from cultures we are so 'superior' to
using the Eastern Wisdom of gunpowder
amongst other bits of Wisdom
when we eradicated them
like the aboriginals
in 'Australia'?
What have most of 'we' lost - not me so much having lived amongst them for a time as they scrabble together what was lost - by
assuming so much
about those Easterners(?)?

[sowhatifit'sdark]

Is the 'East' only in the 'North'
or is that 'Western"?

Talk about dreamtime...

Grubby little lice that somehow took over the world.

[Gustav]

can't take this personally or even know to whom it refers...

two choices
first the preceding post
if not a good fit
the topic post

in this case...you

noob!

[sowhatifit'sdark]

Soon 'we' will find out 'we' never had anything to learn from women
with evidence from Nobel prize winner lists.

[Gustav]

/rotfl

fucking awesome..........biting wit ladened down with a ton of sarcasm

[sowhatifit'sdark]

If I haven’t learned anything from women (or more cleverly haven't noticed that I have) can I cite this as evidence that there is nothing to learn from women?

Hey, maybe I could quality as a kind of civilization if I do this?

(see you shouldn't encourage me)

[Myles]

can't take this personally or even know to whom it refers...

but it does raise the issue of ottoman and arabic cultures that once were broader, more cosmopolitan and included both the West and the East and served as a bridge between...
were they Eastern
did
'we' become Eastern when 'influenced' by and scavenging through north African texts?
Did Native Americans become Western when they walked over?
Should we give back the potato and Iriquois notions of democracy?
And what
of the Russians?
Would I really be the same man without the Brothers K
and Checkov's short stories.
And what can we learn from cultures we are so 'superior' to
using the Eastern Wisdom of gunpowder
amongst other bits of Wisdom
when we eradicated them
like the aboriginals
in 'Australia'?
What have most of 'we' lost - not me so much having lived amongst them for a time as they scrabble together what was lost - by
assuming so much
about those Easterners(?)?

Note accepted transliteration : CHEKHOV . Could write in Russiqan for you if I had characters on keyboard.

You choose well. If you know anything about Chekhov's plays you will be aware that they are about one society dying out to be replaced by another. Think East West. People stuck in the past.

Geography: Antopodies were not near India when I last looked. Tectonic plates on the move? Ask a Hindu or a Buddhist. Ignore Western science. What can we learn ? How to lead a nomadic lifestyle, live off grubs and roots with occasional meat. People highly skilled as are all others who have adapted to their environment. Viva Darwin.

Arab wisdom : Koran or Avicenna ? Explain yourself !

Africa: As with Australian aboriginals, adapted to their environment . Excellent people but written texts ? Examples please

Ottomans: Great for having lots of wome in harem. A brothel where you don't have to pay. What else ?

As for your analogy, you are assuming the Simpsons were watched in vacuuo. Difference if watched for almost three years in the US ?

[kmguru]

From my perspective as an atheist it makes no difference whether there was one Jesus or 99. Nonsens is nonsense whatever its origin.

Agreed. However you forget, Knowledge is Knowledge. The thread asks about Wisdom, the next level up the Knowledge tree. God is not knowledge, it is a belief system. Knowledge is based on science and reasoning. You can not have knowledge unless there is clean and accepted data that is interconnected to provide meaning. As a Atheist, you should know that.

Hence by definition, the Wisdom of the East already vetted out the data, information and knowledge to reach the level of Wisdom. Any information that has not been vetted out is meaningless and can not be called Wisdom.

To pu it another way, it is dumb to ask "Is gold, gold?" or "Is gold from India or China, gold?"

[Myles]

Agreed. However you forget, Knowledge is Knowledge. The thread asks about Wisdom, the next level up the Knowledge tree. God is not knowledge, it is a belief system. Knowledge is based on science and reasoning. You can not have knowledge unless there is clean and accepted data that is interconnected to provide meaning. As a Atheist, you should know that.

Hence by definition, the Wisdom of the East already vetted out the data, information and knowledge to reach the level of Wisdom. Any information that has not been vetted out is meaningless and can not be called Wisdom.

To pu it another way, it is dumb to ask "Is gold, gold?" or "Is gold from India or China, gold?"

Demonstrate vetting out. Then go look in a few bookshops.

[iceaura]

Eastern religions generally teach re-incarnation, which is a lot of nonsense.

No more than forgiveness of sins.

There is usually a version for the masses, when a religion coalesces around some grain of wisdom.

Respect for the complexity - even the aspects of thought and personality - inherent in the "material" world might be a bit of Eastern wisdom the West could use.

[Myles]

No more than forgiveness of sins.

There is usually a version for the masses, when a religion coalesces around some grain of wisdom.

Respect for the complexity - even the aspects of thought and personality - inherent in the "material" world might be a bit of Eastern wisdom the West could use.

Forgiveness of sins is nonsense.

As far as respect for the complexity inherent in natural world ,I would understand that as a love of nature. respect for the environmewnt, the right of others and so on. I am on record as saying that I do not despise any race or creed; it's a matter of not subscribing to what they believe.

Something which I've read on hear on here chimes with my understanding of Spinoza who, as you probably know, was given a hard time by Jews and Christians for his beliefs. He saw everything as one and that makes sense to me. I see myself as part of a whole. I can wonder at the night sky, watching seedlings become flowering plants and so on. But that does not stifle my curiosity about how such things happen.

Rampant consumerism horrifies me as do many other thing that humankind does. I see the earth being raped so that baubles can be manufactured , etc. but I got my views by looking through Western spectacles, which is not to deny that it is absent in the East. I was seeking differences between Eastern thought and ours but I have found nothing new.

The East has nothing to compare with Western medicine to name just one by-product of the scientific method .

To conclude, I can describe a sunset in terms of the underlying physics but that doesn't prevent me from enjoying its sheer beauty.