The Mormon Jesus vs. The Gospel Jesus?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Carcano, Dec 7, 2007.

  1. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    Mitt Romney's speech on religion last week was rather elusive. He spoke much of religious freedom, but had little to say in response to questions about what he believes.

    Here is his version of Christianity:

    "There is one fundamental question about which I often am asked. What do I believe about Jesus Christ? I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of mankind. My church's beliefs about Christ may not all be the same as those of other faiths. Each religion has its own unique doctrines and history. These are not bases for criticism but rather a test of our tolerance. Religious tolerance would be a shallow principle indeed if it were reserved only for faiths with which we agree."

    I thought the Huffington Post came up with a revealing critique of this statement, so I'd like to learn more about what Mormons actually believe about Jesus. Can their religion seriously be considered a sect of Christianity...or is it something entirely new with some old names and labels attached to it???

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-kelly/mitt-romneys-jesus-is-ju_b_75719.html


    "Because here's the thing that Mitt Romney can't say: The Mormon Jesus has about as much in common with Jesus of Nazareth as the Los Angeles Kings have with King Tut. They have the same name, kind of, and that's it.

    The Gospel Jesus lived in Galilee. The Mormon Jesus lived in Albany. Where he fought the Indians. Because he wasn't just the Lamb of God, he was also the Last of the Mohicans. Mormon Jesus? Three wives, a planet full of kids. Gospel Jesus? Living alone and loving it.

    It doesn't even have the theological weight to be heresy; it's a simple case of mistaken identity.

    And I know that sounds like I'm being flip, but that's only because I don't care. But if it matters to you, it really, really matters.

    Mitt Romney wants Christians to think that Mormonism is just another "brand." (He called it a brand earlier this week, in Manchester. Which is how most really devoted people talk about their faith.) But most Christians are pretty brand loyal. It's kind of important to them. They didn't just choose their church for the parking. They like to think they've put some thought into it.

    Evelyn Waugh thought that the difference between the real church (Roman Catholicism) and some fake-o crap (Anglicanism) was so obvious that if you couldn't figure it out, it was your problem. He said that trying to explain it was like trying to teach an Australian about architecture.

    Mitt Romney doesn't want to explain anything. He just wants to blur the distinctions, change the subject, and make the sale.

    Mitt Romney isn't proud of his faith. If he were, he wouldn't react to questions about it like he'd just been asked to describe his parents having sex.

    He could put this whole thing to rest by answering one question about his Jesus, just so we know we've got the right guy: Was he Satan's brother? If the answer is "yes" -- and the Book of Mormon says it is -- Mitt and Pat Robertson are talking about two totally different Middle Eastern drifters."
     
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  3. Marlin Registered Senior Member

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    That article is crap.

    As for the tired old "Jesus and Satan are brothers" argument, this is actually a deceptive sophistry designed to make Mormonism look bad. See if you agree with the following statements:

    1. All mankind are brothers and sisters.
    2. Adolph Hitler was a man.
    3. Mother Teresa was a woman.
    4. Therefore, Adolph Hitler and Mother Teresa are siblings.

    Doesn't put Mother Teresa in a very favorable light when you look at it that way, does it? Yet, this is the trick anti-Mormons want you to believe. To wit:

    1. All mankind (including angels, devils, and mortal humans) are brothers and sisters.
    2. Jesus is an (exalted, perfected) Man.
    3. Satan is a fallen angel, a disembodied man.
    4. Therefore, Jesus and Satan are brothers.

    It's just like saying George Washington and Benedict Arnold were brothers. Never mind that very few textbooks (if any) say as much, because it tends to slant and misrepresent rather than inform.
     
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  5. sandy Banned Banned

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    Mormons aren't born-again Christians. Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior. Not Joseph Smith. Huckabee just might be a contender. I do like Mitt the best personally. He is the most presidential. His Mormon faith, and Americans' general distrust of it, may cost him the nom. Too bad. He's cool otherwise. I do have to laugh at the liberal obsession with Mitt's Mormonism. We all know if he was a lib he would be embraced as "diverse" like the other front-runners.

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  7. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    The new testament states that Jesus is the ONLY begotten son...whereas the Mormons state that Jesus and Satan were BOTH begotten sons.

    So, the 'deceptive sophistry' seems quite valid, no?
     
  8. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    Wheres the 'diversity' in being a Mormon?
     
  9. sandy Banned Banned

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    We've never had a Mormon POTUS before. Just like we've never had a woman or a (half) black man.
     
  10. Kadark Banned Banned

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    From what I watch, Huckabee should be your dream candidate. Why haven't you decided to vote for him yet?
     
  11. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Mormons have about as much credibility as Scientologists, but because they pull the pelt of Xtianity over themselves, other xtians schizms daren't criticise them overtly, in case any of the arguments they pose apply to themselves. It's a circle of deceit, everyone around the table knows everyone else is bluffing, but everyone has too much to lose to call.
     
  12. sandy Banned Banned

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    He's not "presidential" enough like Mitt. He has awful teeth. He doesn't "look" the part. I don't like his name. It sounds like a hick. He needs a makeover. He should be wearing suits. He looks haggard. (Probably from that drastic too-fast weight loss.) He's too soft on immigration and crime, and too hard on kids' BMI readings. I do like his faith though. Good guy, probably. I'm just not convinced (yet). And before you flame me, remember I picked the winner of the last two elections WAY before anyone else. I even bet on it.

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  13. Kadark Banned Banned

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    I must admit that Mitt does look much more presidential (whatever that looks like) than Huckabee. However, are you really willing to substitute competence and qualifications for better looks?
     
  14. Marlin Registered Senior Member

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    Mormons don't believe that Joseph Smith is the Savior. That title, for Mormons, has always been reserved for Jesus Christ.

    No. Mormons do teach that Jesus is the ONLY begotten Son of God in the flesh. This means that only Jesus is both the spiritual AND literally physical offspring of God. The rest of us, including Satan, are spirit children of God but not literal physical offspring of Him. We also believe that Jesus was and is the Firstborn, the Creator of all things spiritual and physical, and the Savior of all Mankind.
     
  15. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    Seeing as you are a Mormon, could you explain what is meant by 'physical offspring'? Does that mean God has a physical body, and physical sperm, which was physically responsible for fertilizing Mary the mother of Jesus?

    The bible teaches that God the father created the world, not the son...so does this mean Mormons reject the old testament?
     
  16. Marlin Registered Senior Member

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    769
    Yes. However, we don't believe God had actual sex with Mary, as she remained a virgin until Jesus's birth.

    Mormons accept the Old Testament. Take a look at John 1:1-3, 14:

    John 1
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. . . . 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    So the Word (Christ) made all things.
     
  17. sandy Banned Banned

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    Mitt has it all. But he's a Mormon. That could keep him out of the WH.
     
  18. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    All that says is that all things were made by God.

    If Jesus existed from the beginning and created the world...this seems like kind of an important fact to *omit* when the Hebrew tradition was written down by the Torah patriarchs.
     
  19. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    So you do believe that God has a body and has physical sperm?

    If Jesus IS God...why bother being begotten...of yourself???
     
  20. Marlin Registered Senior Member

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    God the Son, otherwise known as Jehovah (the pre-mortal Jesus), is referred to as "the Word." Read that passage a little closer: how can God the Father be "with" Himself? And which member of the Godhead was "made flesh" if not God the Son (Jesus)? If Jesus is "the Word," as verse 14 plainly reveals, then it is Jesus who made all things.

    Jesus was Jehovah, the God of the Old Testament. He wasn't "omitted" by the Torah, He just went by a different name.
     
  21. Marlin Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, as we believe that man is literally made in God's body's own image and likeness.

    Mormons believe that the Godhead is composed of three separate, distinct personages (God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit) who are one in purpose (not substance). Why did Jesus become mortal? His suffering, death and resurrection were necessary to save mankind from our fallen state and from the effects of our sins.
     
  22. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    6,865
    Not according to the folks who actually wrote the Torah, who knew of no Jesus (Yeshua), or the word Jehovah in fact...invented by English translators in 1671.

    Or even of hell or the devil for that matter.

    What we see here is a chronological 'piling up' of concepts superimposed unto previous scripture in an attempt to make them appear eternal.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2007
  23. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    I never saw anything in the Book of Mormon about Christ being an Indian fighter or living in New York. I think you are sadly and grossly missinformed about the Latter Day Saints. If you take the time to go to their worship services, they dont talk about Smith much. You could attended services for years before you heard his name mentioned. But you will hear the God and Jesus invoked. The difference between LDS (Mormonism) and most other Christian sects is that they do not belive in the Trinity which was a concept established at the first Council of Nicea when the pagean emperor Consantine was organizing the Christian religion, and that is what gets them in trouble with most Christian sects. LDS/Mormons believe that Christ was litterally the son of God, a being of but separate of God. Jesus is also the prefect son, without sin.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2007

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