Information Physics

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by Reiku, Nov 30, 2007.

  1. Reiku Banned Banned

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    Information Moves at v>c
    Information can be a strange thing to contemplate, and for many, it is a concept impossible to imagine. It would be about as successful as imagining all the matter that made up reality. It is hard enough to imagine that we could potentially squeeze every bit of matter the earth is made of inside a matchbox!
    So what is information?
    It turns out that information isn't real at all, but it has real effects on the universe. Information doesn't have any mass or energy, and neither can we see it, smell it or touch it... It exists in absolutely everything, but it doesn't seem to have a position, or substance.
    This is because information is what gives rise to substance and texture. It also gives rise to every property that makes up the intrinsic qualities of all of matter. It even makes up the intrinsic information of space and time... So information plays the biggest role known. Now, information will take on different roles, and that must mean that some information will have different properties themselves, such as speed. Some of these information waves will travel at lightspeed. According to Einstein, nothing can travel faster-than-light... Let's investigate this.
    The phase velocity of a wave is the rate at which a ''phase'' of the wave propagates in space. This is the speed at which the phase of any one frequency component of the wave will propagate. You could pick one particular phase of the wave and it would appear to move at the phase velocity. The phase velocity is given in terms of the wave's angular frequency, which is represented as w and wave vector k by:

    Vp = w/k

    It turns out though, that the phase velocity of electromagnetic radiation may exceed the velocity of ''c'' > the speed of light in a vacuum under some special circumstances, but (according to general thought) this does not indicate any superluminal information or energy transfer. This is called anomalous dispersion.
    Is it possible to break the lightspeed barrier?

    Well, no. Exceeding the speed of light, 186,000 miles per second, is supposed to be completely impossible according to Einstein’s relativity papers. According to Einstein, it would require an infinite amount of energy. As we have already been told as well, superluminal speeds also hold some strange consequences when time is involved. And how strange is this? An astronaut moving beyond light speed would theoretically arrive at his destination before leaving! Thus, if you go far and fast enough, you end up exactly where you began...

    Now, two German physicists have claimed to make light particles exceed its own velocity using the strange phenomenon known as quantum tunneling. Quantum tunneling is a well known phenomenon that occurs as a direct result of the strange uncertainty which pervades nature at very small scales. Tunneling is also involved in radioactivity and nuclear fusion, and according to theory, quantum tunneling helps make the sun shine, and according to the minority, tunneling also had something to do with the existence of the universe.
    Their research involved an experiment in which microwave photons, which are just another one of the several wavelengths of photons, appeared to travel "instantaneously" between two prisms forming the halves of a cube placed a meter apart. When the prisms were placed together, photons fired at one edge passed straight through them, as expected. After they were moved apart, most of the photons reflected off the first prism they encountered and were picked up by a detector. But, and here is the amazing part, a few photons appeared to "tunnel" through the gap separating them as if the prisms were still held together.

    Stranger still is that these photons had traveled a much longer distance, and yet, they seem to have arrived at their detector at exactly the same time as the reflected photons! If photons all travel at the same speed, and they made a journey that was longer than what was taken by the other photons, and yet turned up at the finishing end at the same time, can only indicate that these photons traveled faster-than-light. Now, this begs the same question for information.
    Einstein, as we are all aware, was highly critical of quantum mechanics. He was very displeased with the course it was inexorably taking. In response to his dislike, Einstein, Nathan Rosen and Boris Podolsky set up a thought experiment which has now come to be known as the EPR-Paradox.
    Their experiment consisted of dealing with a measurement performed on one half of a quantum system. Note however, that this quantum system being measured was actually part of another quantum system, which is now detached, and left alone. When one half of the system (A) is measured should instantly affect the other half of the system (B) at the very instant of measurement, even though there is no longer any connection between parts A and parts B. One can apply these systems as photons, and if the two photons are created from a single source, then any measurement made on one photon will instantly determine the state of the other photon, even if they are billions of light years apart. Einstein dismissed such long-distance communication as ''spooky,'' but a talented Irish physicist called John Bell mathematically proved that ''entanglement'' as it was coined, could be observed in the lab. Then in 1996 Alain Aspect and colleagues solved the EPR-Paradox, and witnessed for the first time quantum entanglement.
    But this is very strange. If a measured photon at x distance can instantly determine another photon, then this must suggest that information must travel at superluminal speeds. The only other answer came from physicist David Bohm, suggesting that the results where of a local result in the system called ''hidden variables.''

    But we must consider superluminal speeds... not just for quantum entanglement, but also for other applications concerning physics. One of these stems from the theory that the past and the future form the present. John G. Cramer introduced this idea, suggesting that quantum information comes from the past and from the future, and multiplies in the present, creating a collapse in the wave function.

    Might it be that Einstein was wrong again about quantum theory?
     
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  3. Reiku Banned Banned

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    Now... this is why this was why the following work, before it was unjustly removed from this physics area, was pertinent to the questions at hand. In my other work, i showed that the Transactional Interpretation of QM must allow for faster-than-speeds for information. Not only that, but we actually have experimental evidence of backwards through time travel in the Wheeler Delayed-Choice Experiment, varified first in the 1980's and then again in 2000.
     
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  5. ael65 certum quod factum Registered Senior Member

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    Can you include a link that points to description of the experiment you talking about ?

    I understand that information is carried rather by the group wave velocity not a phase velocity. Phase speed can be really arbitrarily high: imagine flat wavefront crossing line connecting 2 stars at shallow angle.

    EPR phenomenon contradicts locality. However, the same QM entanglement prevents transporting any information through 'EPR channel'.
     
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  7. Reiku Banned Banned

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    Ref: ''Parallel Universes: The Search For Other Universes,'' Dr F. A. Wolf 1985

    As for links, i'm sure you'll find one yourself... just type in something like, ''Qauntum waves, faster than light, EPR.''

    --- I want it known though, that the EPR Paradox has a number of solutions, but the leading one right now is that information must move faster than light to account for any instantaneous events.

    Here is more work that was removed from the physics forum, which i will replace at my own cost. It shows that there is growing interest in such superluminal phenomena.

    Closed Timelike Curves

    In physics, when we consider a particle and its past, present and future path throughout the universe, we call its definite path a ‘’worldline.’’ A particle will always try to move in straight lines throughout spacetime, but because space and time are curved into each other, most of the time, they follow curved paths through space.
    This is what we mean by a warped space, or distorted spacetime. We find that these distortions are in fact just gravity, or curved spacetime. And gravity is the presence of matter itself. Even light cannot escape the wrath of gravity at very strong levels, but usually, a tiny photon traveling in empty space will almost definitely travel in straight lines.
    But there really isn’t just one straight line, or worldline for any particle. We find that according to Feynman’s Sum Over Histories, a particle actually has every possible path to its disposal – these path’s are of both times past and times to come.
    We find that these paths have themselves a statistical element about them and will variably shape how a particle will end up in any state given upon measurement. Take a photon traveling from the past: It will take every known possible path, even those improbable paths through a black hole (but as you can imagine, the statistics for this are so vanishingly small, we can nearly neglect them, but Hawking shows that it is possible for allowing a particle to travel at superluminal speeds using the uncertainty principle), and upon arrival at Earth, we can measure the photon, and all the paths its could have taken, according to the wave function, suddenly collapses into a single probability!

    For Feynman’s Sum Over History to apply to physics, one must use imaginary time, rather than the concept of real time. Imaginary time is the same thing as real space, whereas real time is the same thing as imaginary space. The two concepts are pivotal to understanding how we contemplate different ways to look at our universe at large, and even at small scales.
    Granted, the concepts themselves are purely mathematical, but they play an enormous part in relativity and quantum mechanics. You need to first gather up all the possible path a particle can take, bundle them together so-to-say, and then we need to measure those statistics against real time, and the result is the real conditions of the particles history; but even those results have a slight statistical aura about them.

    In the case of the universe at large and gravity, Feynman would need to have analyzed all possible histories of a curved spacetime, and this at large affects everything that has a worldline in this universe. There would indeed be a finite number of possible outcomes, but one would need to chose which outcome best fits this universe today.
    Hawking reminds us, that if this is indeed the case, the class of curved spacetime that determines the universe today (including those spaces and times which are blown into unimaginable proportions, or singularities), the probabilities of such spaces cannot be determined by the theory. However, he says it is possible if we calculate them in some arbitrary way. Dr. Hawking is very cryptic this way, but what he means is that science cannot predict any history for the universe if there is a singular past. So any attempt to learn how a universe with a singularity would result, is really a disaster for science.

    Now, since this study is about time and space at large, let’s consider CTC’s or ‘’Closed-Timelike-Curves.’’ This is a worldline describing a physical system which is ‘’closed’’. This means something physical in fact returns to original starting point. We call such movements ‘’sinusoidal’’.
    The idea of CTC’s was in fact developed by Willem Jacob van Stockum in 1937 and later by the infamous Kurt Godel in 1949. There is indeed a lot of controversy over their existence, but if they do exist, it could revolutionize relativity including our ability to create machines capable of a global causal violation; in other words, a path that twists in space and moves through time.

    Worldlines and of course Feynman’s Sum Over Histories is best described in terms of ‘’light cones’’, which is really a more specified term that is timelike in nature. It will probably be more recognized than the last two concepts. Light cones describe every possible future of a physical object in spacetime, given a current measurement during the present time. This can seem a bit strange, because not only does one deflate all possibilities of the past events to a single value upon measurement (the collapse of the wave function), but one can now calculate all possible path’s in the future in real time.
    Because particles don’t have a specific arrow of directionality following cause and effect, one can have in special conditions, a particle which experiences a timespace and spacetime that is so heavily curved, it can return to the place it began – in other words, things at very small levels are able to move back through time… From effect to the cause instead of cause to the effect. These are simply basic rotations through space and through time, which are conveniently called, ‘’closed-timelike-curves’’, so just think of a loop that twists in space and moves through time back into its original starting point.

    Frank J. Tipler, Prof. of mathematics and physics at Tulane University in New Orleans, developed an ingenious idea involving such closed-timelike-curves. I have read his article… it’s a good read. He explains that classical relativity does in fact predict pathological behavior. The exact nature of the pathology, or, CTC’s, are however very debatable, since the predictive nature of relativity has itself many outcomes.
    His design is quite old now, but it is still a probability in physics creation of time machines today. His design is to create a huge rapidly rotating cylinder (possibly in space – I assume), and the spacetime around the cylinder will be warped to such an extent, that even time itself becomes sinusoidally warped so that instead of flowing in the correct direction… that is forwards, it in fact varies in an oscillating manner. Of course, one might think that such a spacetime would rip a spacetime traveler apart, but we aren’t talking about black holes here. If one entered this machine carefully, one could avoid being turned into spaghetti and experience a dilated time frame. Perhaps this is the time machine of the future?

    Retrocausality

    There is something very fixed in the universe: This is the observer…
    She observes the universe in all its glory, and there is a specific directionality to this phase. This is of course, the psychological arrow of time. This arrow allows the psyche to adapt to a certain flow within the universe… This flow is forward. Because the human is intrinsic to such properties, we find that in the Copenhagen Interpretation that time is actually relative to the observer… Indeed, it states that if the observer was not here, there would be no such thing as time!! We say the same thing about energy-matter and space, since according to relativity, all are deeply connected and somehow the same thing.
    If things where going backwards, things would seem very strange indeed… According to Dr. Hawking, if time is reversed, then so must the entropy contained within the universe. This means, everything that has evolved into today’s present states, would suddenly begin to de-evolve, and the plate that fell onto the floor would suddenly reassemble on the table! Counterintuitive? Perhaps, but this what we should expect, since the entropy reverse on the microscopic scale would indeed drag even the components it makes ‘’macroscopic objects’’ to the their previous states…

    Something more can be seen in this though. The human mind, according to my theory, and understanding of the Copenhagen Interpretation would not allow us to know that the plate had reassembled on the table. Why? Because one must assume that even ‘’secret knowledge,’’ or personal knowledge is also dragged along with the matter…
    For those who believe that mind is bound by the matter of the brain, then mind too must experience the same flow of time, and same consequences. This means that personal knowledge that was increasing as time passed, now begins to decrease! So I propose, even though Hawking explains that if time went back and in result we would see the proverbial plate reassemble, we wouldn’t know! He doesn’t explain this. But it makes logical sense… since to the observer now, time is still flowing in the correct manner… In short, we wouldn’t know. He may have proclaimed this before though, but I do not recall him mentioning this in his book, ‘’A Brief History of Time.’’

    So, what should we expect if time does move back? Should it move back at all??
    According to the Omega Theory of Cosmological Evolution, everything will reach an end singularity. A singularity which halts all known forward laws of physics, and inexorably forces everything to move backwards; but this depends on a steady balance of matter against the ratio of spacetime…There are existing theories right now which currently goes against such a point, against such a symmetry in time, such as the known acceleration of the universe, which seems to be indicating that our universe is ‘’Open,’’ meaning it will continue forever to expand. If it does, this can lead to Armageddon visions such as a Big Freeze or even Big Rip.

    However, such a symmetry in time leads to exciting proposals that makes us realize that in subtle ways, the end and the beginning are somehow the same thing. It is easier to understand this, by using Hawkings analogy that if the universe sprung from a singularity, it would end in a singularity… both are somehow points which oscillate in imaginary time.
    Reversing time allows us to find these strange results predicted, and if we could watch a reversed time frame of the universe, we ask the question, ‘’would it look the same as it did going forward?’’

    Take a jar of gas. Any gas, with about a billion, billion, billion atoms. As time moves forward, the atoms in the jar become more and more disordered, and more and more less like the original state they had evolved from. How long would we need to wait, until all of those atoms reached the same states as they begun? It’s very difficult say, but in the long run, it should take trillions of years… maybe even longer…

    Now, this so far, has explained in very pragmatic terms what energy-matter is subjected to in this universe; a constant disorder which should never reach a state which it had begun, unless everything is suddenly reverted back to whence it came via an Omega Singularity, or a Big Crunch.
    But what about this notion that the beginning is somehow very much like, if not the same as the end? How can one come to such a conceptualized view of the universe?
    The answer turns out to be very dubious indeed. The answer might lye in closed- timelike-curves… In short, just to get a very quick picture of what is being said here, is that the beginning of the universe might be a state which eventually curves back onto itself so that that there is what appears to be, a superb intrical Gordian’s knot.

    As explained earlier, a CTC (Closed-Timelike-Curves) are states of a physical system which twists through space and time, and ends up exactly where it began. Is this the nature of the universe? It begs the question.
    Let us view the universe like an atom, as described by Hawkings principle of Quantum Cosmology… and then assume that this particle/universe reaches a state which is so heavily curved upon itself, it is forced to end up where it began… then it turns out that the end is in fact the beginning, and vice versa… (This idea could be related intimately to pulsating universe theory).

    But something even more sinister can arise from all of this, I speculate. If the beginning is the end, and the end is the beginning, (as I believe some old wise religions and philosophies state), then there might be room for some retrocausality – but first, what is a retrocausality in physics?

    It is when the effect precedes the cause… We postulate this from interpretations of general relativity, and some interpretations of quantum mechanics. In fact, Dr. Wolf reminds us that the uncertainty principle, which governs our inability to predict all that there is to be known at the very small scales of quarks and protino’s, that cause and effect breaks down!!! This is very true, and since we know that physics predicts this, we can say that retrocausality must happen everyday in our lives; we are not concerned with this strange action though, because we exist on levels which are not normally affected by such a principle.

    Cause and Effect, or the Effect Causes the Cause

    In this section, I want to explore the foundation of how macroscopic objects capable of knowing their surrounding (us) is not an intrinsic direction at all. In fact, the very rise of macroscopic intelligence does indeed come around through tiny objects that defy a directionality in compared with what we call ‘’forward time flow.’’
    The retrocausality is best described as what can inexorably happen in the future affects what we call the present, and what we call the present can indeed affect the past…

    Such affects don’t defy the rules of physics… in fact, they SHOULD be intrinsic properties happening all the time, as I have explained so far. What we call the past, might be a loop in time, or a ‘’time loop,’’ which confines everything within its own existence. The past can therefore be the future, as much as the future can be the past; that intrical Gordian’s knot I spoke of.

    It actually allows ‘’things’’ – whether that be of an energetic or even a corporeal nature can move back through time… but for this to be possible, we need to make sure the mass is imaginary…
    Such matter is called tachyonic in nature, but as I have shown, tachyonic doesn’t necessarily mean a particle traveling constant at v>c… instead, it can mean for a very short period, that a particle can travel at superluminal speeds… such as a photon.

    According to Dr. Cramer and his Transactional Interpretation, such backwards through time-travel is very possible. In his theory, there is two types of time waves. A time wave that moves forward in time, called an ‘’Offer Wave,’’ and an ‘’Echo Wave’’ which moves back in time.
    Every time an observation is made in the present, he predicts that these two waves, one coming from the past, and another moving back from the future meet up in the present… the original wave, the Echo Wave, meets up with its complex-conjugate, and they multiply. The creation is said to be a collapse in the wave function… when a superpositional system is reduced to a single value which equals exactly 1.

    What are these waves?
    According to this very smart physicist, they are in fact time waves. They move at superluminal speeds, and because of this, they can travel freely throughout the time dimension, spending very little time in real time.
    These waves create everything solid and defined. They are the result of everything we call ‘’tangible,’’ and they might even give rise to consciousness itself, according to Dr. Wolf and many other psychophysicists.

    Retrocausality can now play a new part in all of this… According to one specific interpretation of relativity, ‘’All Time’’ or all that is past, present and future, in fact all happens in one go…!! Why?
    This is because time is not fixed. The psychological arrow shows us that we have a definite position during the present, and creates the true illusion that we are living in only one present time. In other words, the past and the future are happening right now! This is very difficult to imagine, but it has been found to best analyzed by saying that the human consciousness creates this defined existence here and now, and without it, time as we know it would all happen in one swift go!

    Again… hence… time is only relative to the observer… Without the observer, the past and future, including the present, are all present. This is what allows time travel and superluminal speeds to exist… but this might not be true for macroscopic systems, even though they are themselves made up by systems that seem to defy the normal macroscopic constant of cause and effect. Instead, what we call normal procedure of cause and effect, is an effect before the cause.

    Wheelers Delayed-Choice Experiment

    Dr. Wolf reminds us in his book, ‘’Parallel Universes: The Search for Other Worlds,’’ that we are being told by top physicists that what we do now, is in fact shaping the early state of the universe! This is very counterintuitive, but it turns out to answer for quite a lot in physics.
    The state of a system, unless collapsed into a value through decoherence, is found to be in a mixed state of probability. The best way to imagine this is by understanding that a photon doesn’t travel across the galaxy via one course or path. It actually travels through all of the potential paths, and out of which one upon measurement creates a defined history for that photon.

    Wheelers Delayed-Choice Experiment was first proposed as a thought experiment by John Archibald Wheeler in 1978, and it was a variation of the famous Thomas Young’s Double Slit Experiment, in which the detector screen that ‘’picks up the presence of the photon can be removed at the very last moment according to the observer who measures the experiment.
    It is a choice however that is made after the photon has passed the slit, and it could have traveled as a particle, or it could have traveled as a wave and we also find it could have traveled in many varied paths regardless of the instrument being used.
    However, the instrument could be set up so that we couldn’t determine which path the photon had arrived, then the two paths are superpositioned together – and just as found in the Double Slit Experiment, the two waves are found to interfere with each other so that the final state is different to what would be expected without that slight change in the instrument being used.
    In short, it is we who decide, by our choice of how the set-up is performed whether the photon traveled path A or path B or both A and B. It is the very last moment to decide whether to make that slight change that determines the past history of the quantum system… The experiment was verified in 1985 at College Park by three physicists by the names of Carroll Alley, William Wickes and Oleg Jakubowicz – and confirmed again later by Yoon-Ho Kim in 2000, using another advanced experiment called delayed-quantum eraser, verifying a delayed choice and proving backwards through time travel.

    Somehow, we are making the universe more and more defined through the measurements we make today… It is sending signals back through time, creating a more defined reality for us – and for the times of the universe when there wasn’t an observer present… unless one resorts to some superintelligence.
    Dr Hawking and Dr Wolf reminded us that in the beginning, the universe couldn’t have had a unique radius, or any unique configuration, because no one was there to give it these unique factors. Therefore, we have had to resort to the idea that perhaps somehow what we are doing now is shaping the early universe. This is very strange, because it suggests that the beginning of what we call ‘’big bang,’’ is somehow happening right now. Time is all laid out like a fine fabric, which allows the past and future to exist alongside the present time as their own present times. Because of this prediction, Dr Cramer allowed superluminal time waves to permeate every corner of spacetime, past, present and future.

    The present time in the future, is sending waves back through time, creating things here and now… But what is creating these waves from the future?
    Astrophysicist, Fred Hoyle, who passed away in 2001, believed that these waves where coming back through some superintelligence located in the future. I believe he attributed this to some high-powered, Godlike machine… He was a very vivid thinker this way. Much like what he predicted for what was happening in the future sending these waves back, one must assume that we are sending waves into the past…
    Dr Cramer shows in his Transactional Interpretation, the present only affects the future in a statistical sense. It is really the future which shapes up everything we call ‘’tangible’’ and ‘’material’’ here in the present. This means that the past affects our present time in a statistical sense as well. But which future send these messages to us? Great developments in black hole theory now suggest something quite different to what Dr Wolf proclaimed in his book. He stated that these messages were being sent back through time from other universes.
    In a recent proposal, Dr Hawking solved what was called, ‘’The Information Paradox’’ of quantum physics. It suggested that information cannot ever be destroyed or lost in a universe… But if things where able to move into black holes and into other universes, this would suggest that even information would be squeezed out of existence.
    In order to solve this, Hawking now believes that information is in fact mangled and squeezed back into the same universe, instead of moving into any other. This means that information is never lost… and this brings a boundary on the Transactional Interpretation…
    When Dr Cramer developed his theory, he never designed it for multiple universes. Instead, the future which sent back these messages was in fact the ‘’most probable future.’’ Information cannot spontaneously flow from one universe and into another with physics reshaping how we define as a ‘’self-contained’’ universe.

    There is a double flow in time. This flow clashes during the present time, formulating everything we know: Perhaps even consciousness itself arises out of such a collapse in the wave function, as the growing enigmatic theory goes right now. As explained earlier, the original wave needs to square with its complex-conjugate; any waves that do not manage this, simply cancel out.
     
  8. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Reiku:

    Warning: Do not repost things that have been removed by a moderator, or you may be banned for overriding a moderator's edit.
    ---

    Moving on, let's look at your post:

    You haven't defined "information" in any meaningful way. Then, having failed to define it, you suddenly say that something called "information waves" exists. What is the nature of these waves? You need to explain.

    Below, you start talking about electromagnetic waves, which are not "information waves", unless by "information wave" you actually mean "electromagnetic wave".

    Anomalous dispersion is a different thing from phase velocity.

    It's impossible for objects with mass.

    This shows why a definite definition of "information" is so important. I would not say that entanglement carries "information", where information is defined as a message, for example.

    This is the first time you've ever mentioned the Transactional Interpretation of QM, that I am aware of.

    Why not just provide a link rather than a large cut-and-paste?

    You're probably breaching Dr Wolf's copyright.
     
  9. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

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    Reiku, this is just not true. This is the first time that I have heard anyone seriously consider the fact that non-locality is a feature of nature.
     
  10. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

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    Reiku---

    This was moved once before... I see no reason not to move it again.
     
  11. Reiku Banned Banned

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    69 ways to waste my time. Ok James...

    ''You haven't defined "information" in any meaningful way. Then, having failed to define it, you suddenly say that something called "information waves" exists. What is the nature of these waves? You need to explain.''

    Information is one of the hardest things to define, becaue you might as well say it makes up everything. The nature of the waves are as I presented: To give rise to material and ethereal propoerties. Infomation waves do exist, and they are nothing more than the information I spoke of. They exist In Cramers TI and they exist in nature making up normal electromagnetic waves.

    ''Below, you start talking about electromagnetic waves, which are not "information waves", unless by "information wave" you actually mean "electromagnetic wave".''

    Even though i very rarely resort to using electromagnetic waves to describe information, it still stands as a good analogy to the waves i want to talk about, especially when you are showing that electromagnetic waves themselves are not unheard of moving at speeds that exceed c. If this was confusing, then i apologize, but i thought it was obvious i was referring to EM waves as an anology to explain velocities, and even phases throughout spacetime.

    ''Anomalous dispersion is a different thing from phase velocity.''

    Are you saying phases are totally ignored during times exceeding ''c''? or are you saying this, because you think that i think they are somehow the same thing, because i know there not... I said:

    ''It turns out though, that the phase velocity of electromagnetic radiation may exceed the velocity of ''c'' >''

    Which is true... in terms of phase velocities. In fact, earlier this year when the German scientists made photons tunnel, they said they moved faster than light... If this is the case, then tell me how we describe the phas velocity... it must be one exceeding ''c''. You're getting as picky as Ben nowadays.

    Hence, i continue to say:

    ''the speed of light in a vacuum under some special circumstances, but (according to general thought) this does not indicate any superluminal information or energy transfer. This is called anomalous dispersion. ''

    Is, as i am saying, a normal prediction of the math. Anomalous dispersion allows an electromagnetic wave to travel faster than ''c'' for a very short time via tunneling. I don't see why you would automatically say i was saying they were the same thing. I hint no such thing. All i am saying is that the velocity of the phase of an electromagnetic wave indeed DOES exceed ''c''. Now tell me how i am wrong?

    ''It's impossible for objects with mass.''

    You are out to troll my time too. I never mentioned mass here... I know a thing with real mass cannot move past or to ''c''. Do you think i am that fickle, or do you somply expect me to cover absolutely everything? If i do, things can get tiresom.

    ''This shows why a definite definition of "information" is so important. I would not say that entanglement carries "information", where information is defined as a message, for example.''

    And as i said, information is a very hard thing to define, because it does in fact make up everything. That's it in a nutshell really. To define it anymore could get sloppy, so it's best to resort to analogies of already existing waves, like electromagnetism, to explain velocities. Since relativity predicts information waves moving at ''c'' and no faster, electromagnetism turns out to be a perfect example. Now, it turns out not all information moves at ''c'' - but if you actually read on, you will see i refer to the information waves of Cramers TI. But you haven't done this at all. If you had, it would have wiped away any inconsistencies or incoherences in the understanding of my work.

    ''This is the first time you've ever mentioned the Transactional Interpretation of QM, that I am aware of.''

    That's because everything you do is a half-assed job.

    ''Why not just provide a link rather than a large cut-and-paste?

    You're probably breaching Dr Wolf's copyright. ''

    Cut and paste?

    Who has? I haven't? Everything presented is in my own words.
     
  12. Reiku Banned Banned

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    I'll suppose this was a question, rather than anything else...? I say this, because i have already explained, just because you haven't heard something before, doesn't not make it true.

    Faster than light?
    information or energy) to travel at any speed. Recently, EPR-type experiments (entanglement
    ... case, information could be transmitted faster than light. ...

    www.gallup.unm.edu/~smarandache/Russo

    I could also find several other sites proclaiming that faster-than-light information was a possibility due to quantum entanglement.
     
  13. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,967
    HTTP 404 Not found. Check your link.
     
  14. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,967
    Well, I've seen you claim before that you like the Copenhagen interpretation of QM. Surely, if this is the case, you don't agree with this statement. In that interpretation, the wavefunction is nothing physical, and carries no information. It cannot be observed. It is a probability density which evolves over time via the Schroedinger equation.

    When you measure something, then you collapse the wave-function. This is where the physics comes in---you can only know something that you measure. Since the wave-function is non-local in and of itself, there is no problem with EPR type experiments. The results in both detectors are correlated, but to actually KNOW that they are correlated, you have to communicate that result.

    Further, no information can be transfered between the two detectors. The only thing that the detector knows is that it sees some particle in some spin state. If the experimenter knew that he was participating in an EPR experiment, he would know that the other detector saw the same thing. However, there is no information that has been transmitted. Simply knowing the result of a measurement taken in (say) another galaxy doesn't give the experimenter any knowledge of what is going on over there.
     
  15. Reiku Banned Banned

    Messages:
    11,238
    I think, what we will find, is that the Copenhagen is very close to what we should expect from a good quantum theory. The wave function indeed is not physical, and carries no defined information... I think a few things about the CI needs to be reevaluated though. For instence, alot of the theory is just talk, and not a totally mathematical design - This would mean for my interpretation of it, that the area's which are mathematical, might be misleading.

    ''When you measure something, then you collapse the wave-function.''

    This is what interests me. Whilst the theory says that the wave is not physical, the collapse of the system does give rise to physical things; therego, something is happening when we collapse, ''lets say'' an entangled photon... immediately state photon 2 has a defined spin - what is happening? Can we honestly say that they ''simply'' change, because this is what Bohr would have said. This is where the Copenhagen Interpretation needs to make a summery of how things happen so damn quick.

    If there is a state of information that is reduced in photon 1, allowing that photon to settle into one state, then there must be a corresponding information which tells photon 2 how to also settle.

    The real problem is how things happen so fast - this is undeniable. Saying something is merely non-local, is just another way for us to say, distance is not a problem, and neither is any position. If one side is determined, then the other is also instantly determined.

    What is not determinable, though, from EPR, is what causes the change. Non-local has just been an escape goat for physicists. This troubled Einstien, because he knew there was something a bit strange calling the entire universe non-local, probably due to relativistic effects. Then we might also assume, that perhaps Einstien was wrong, and that even certain information did exceed ''c''. It wouldn't be so difficult to imagine, since information itself is totally ethereal, and would be able to travel at these speeds, according to the theory.

    This is where we might need to merge Einsteins mistakes, the Transactional Interpretation with Copenhagen to make more sense of the loosly used term ''Non-Locality.'' Remember, Bell only proved through his hypothesis that entanglement could be demonstrated in the lab, because of non-local ideas. By saying Einstein was wrong, we can inexorably make Bells hypothesis a more understandable theory.
     
  16. Reiku Banned Banned

    Messages:
    11,238
    Oh the link... I'll find it again. There's plety of sites that tell you about this growing hypothesis... just type in:

    ''EPR - Information moves faster than light.''

    Plenty.
     
  17. Reiku Banned Banned

    Messages:
    11,238
    This wave equation,


    d^2u/dt^2 -c^2 d2u/dx2 + w2 u = 0


    has a set of solutions:


    u = A cos( ax - bt )

    c^2 a^2 - b^2 + w^2 = 0

    Which are sine waves propagating with a speed,

    v = b/a = sqrt(c^2 + (w/a)^2)

    The problem here, is that they are moving at a speed which exceeds ''c''. These are normal equations for any wave form or particle. The problem can be removed, by distinguishing this velocity which is known as the phase velocity v_ph from another velocity known as the group velocity v_gr which is given by,

    v_gr = c / v_ph

    Now, this basically means that a wave packet will have a velocity at the value of ''c'' when in a group. But here is the problem, we can apply the same values for actual information waves in space and time, and when you measure an entangled photon, the other photon is instantly determined: despite any group variables. We could apply the phase veclocity equation to an information wave which would allow instantaneous action at a very spooky distance. The equations just shown, say that is it is only possible to send information with such a wave equation at a group velocity ''c'', but it doesn't account for possible information determining the action at great distances.

    The Phase Velocity however, does in itself, describe faster-then-light communication. It begs the question to what kind of information we are dealing with, without resorting to a group factor. If there isn't anything which describes this phase velocity, then the phase velocity is just a lame example of a speed faster than light which cannot carry a message.

    This doesn't seem right, especially when we have top physicists, such as Dr Cramer who's interpretations describe faster-than-light travel for certain information, the Wheeler-Choice Experiment, which even proves in itself backwards through time travel, and the well known phenomena of action at spooky distances which could be answered for by superluminal phase waves.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    :shrug:
     
  18. zephir Banned Banned

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    390
    Can you put down some example of information, which is NOT mediated by energy spreading? If not, all thinking about information spreading can follow from energy spreading, so we can start to discuss about physics.
     
  19. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    What information doesn't have a physical manifestation of some sort?
     
  20. Reiku Banned Banned

    Messages:
    11,238
    Zeph

    -c/Vp^2 = w/k^2

    This shows a negative value (i), of A ''phase wave.'' It has no variables of M or E, so it is a wave without any matter or diffused matter. This is why:

    d^2u/dt^2 -c^2 d2u/dx2 + w2 u = 0

    has a set of solutions:

    u = A cos( ax - bt )

    c^2 a^2 - b^2 + w^2 = 0

    Which are sine waves propagating with a speed,

    v = b/a = sqrt(c^2 + (w/a)^2) = v>c

    Spider

    ''What information doesn't have a physical manifestation of some sort?''

    The kind i just showed above.
     
  21. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    This information is being transferred to my brain state through physical photons of light that have been generated by my computer screen.
     
  22. Reiku Banned Banned

    Messages:
    11,238
    Yes.. that kind of information is physical, but the equation:

    d^2u/dt^2 -c^2 d^2u/dx^2 + w^2 u = 0

    Is an equation describing a non-physical wave < > because it has a set of solutions that reduce the phase wave velocity to be v>c...

    Now, this could describe a number of things. It's like those obtuse short equations that actually describe several other equations in one. It can describe Tachyon Fields, Superluminal Information, Quantum Information Tunelling, Quantum Tunelling and even particles which have a ohase velocty for a short period due to Hawking;s equations of apply the Uncertainty principle.

    But Einstein neglected all notion of faster than light speeds, and we already have damning evidence he was wrong. That's why i gave the solution (which i made myself) >

    -c/Vp^2 = w/k^2

    To show that ''c'' is not a physical constant, but rather a velocity constant. It was Einstein who thought this to be the zero-point of speed, but solutions of


    Phase Wave Vector Equation

    Phase Waves can be described under a state vector, given as |Ø>. Although, the rule of complimentarity ruled itself by the uncertainty principle forbids us ever knowing everything about the mathematics behind |Ø>. Though, potentially, anything you want to know is behind that variable. The state/wave vector spreads out over spacetime. It can potentially and theoretically calculate the wave vector of entire galaxies and even the universe itself!
    Not only this but if waves are subjected to the uncertainty principle, then there is a good arguement that its such superluminal information inversely directive ti the excitation in the ordinary matter subjected by the UP. Maybe this is how matter and the uncertainty principes are invariants and inseperable?

    The Velocity of Classical Theory

    Velocity

    Velocity is found to be the current speed of momentum through a vacuum. We can measure the velocity in a time t, using the following equation:

    V=delta x/delta t

    In any standard course of physics, you will learn that the velocity and momentum of matter can be summed up using the equations of motions. We use the same equations everyday in physics to determine particle velocities to planetary orbital references.

    The equations of motions are given as a series or collection of equations, some linear, others not. The acceleration formula is given as:

    A=delta v/delta t -> a=v – u/t

    And the average velocity given to a system is found through the application of:

    ½=(u+v) = s/t

    And

    S=½(u+v)t

    Where u is the initial velocity, s is the distance traveled, v is velocity and a is the constant acceleration.

    We learn in relativity that acceleration is the equivalence of a body with mass, and a body of mass was equivalent to curvature, and curvature was the equivalence of gravity. Lorentz equations describe a moving body accelerating through spacetime and experiencing time dilation. Space contracts and time dilates by a factor of √(1-v2/c2). In such situations, an
    observer can experience time moving slower accelerating through spacetime, reaching speeds a fraction that of lightspeed c. But, this all really means nothing, when the equations:

    d^2u/dt^2 -c^2 d^2u/dx^2 + w^2 u = 0

    v>c

    Survive. They are indicating something, and time waves/information waves are suspect rather than actual tachyonic matter.
     
  23. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    Matter isn't the only physical thing. Can the wave you describe contain information? How would that information be "read"? If no information can escape from it, like a black hole, it might be lost forever.
     

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