Star Wars vs Star Trek

**Kittamaru** · 05-07-10, 11:27 PM

I meant Spock wtfpwning Vader by transporting in behind and Death Gripping him

**Apocalypse2001** · 05-08-10, 12:02 AM

I think this is proof that Worf came up with the first personal energy shield in the Federation :P http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-atvZBEvb44

**Apocalypse2001** · 05-08-10, 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by Kittamaru

I meant Spock wtfpwning Vader by transporting in behind and Death Gripping him

oh yeah....

classic . Absolutely classic.
But yeah the destruction of the Enterprise-1701 was completely inaccurate and unrealistic. It's like they popped a balloon lol But obviously that was for comedic effect. Vader's words being the punch line.

**Hellblade8** · 05-08-10, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by Apocalypse2001

considering how massive a Dyson Sphere is ("Relics" Season 6), nothing can stand a chance against it. It could gobble up those pathetic Death Stars like skittles.

That thing was just weird.

Originally Posted by alpinedigital

Okay who is still awake in this discussion?? Here's a scenario I would like to submit for confirmation:

Star Wars vessels, using Turbo Laser cannons: Can they track a target at warp speed velocities and hit their target? At slower than light speeds, they cant keep up, and at faster than light speeds... yeah. Way too frickin fast, right?

Hell no. It's only possible for Trek ships because they use targeting computers to compensate for that sort of thing. In Star Wars, though they do have targeting computers, we've seen that they tend to fire manually in most cases. In the Second Season of Clone Wars, we see them testing Clone Children on how to fire--ie, manually. The range itself was maybe half a km and Boba was shown to be rather talented as a shot. Even if we assume that every clone gunner is just as good, if not better, their accuracy is nowhere near enough to fight off a speed at FTL.

Also, we regularly see SW ships missing at close range in the series. If it wasn't for the sheer amount of volume those ships put out, they wouldn't hit jack shit. Ie, in Destroy Malevolence, we see three Venators no more than one km or so away unleash everything they had at the unshielded bridge of the Malevolence. Hundreds of bolts fired at the skyscraper sized bridge tower.

They hit once.

Can they even track vessels in normal space while in hyperspace?

Um, I don't think so. Not without at least putting up some sort of advanced sensor systems. They can detect ships coming out of hyperspace though and presumably via Han's wording in A New Hope, chase one through hyperspace, but we've never seen them detect them with standard sensors.

Would their sensors work for detecting, tracking, checking status of ships in normal space?

In Jedi Crash, they figured out they were going to crash into a sun, but that may have been due to the information from the navicomp's coordinates and not the ship itself detecting it.

It's been a good while since I read up on Star Wars stuff but as I recall, I was quite confident that Hyperspace FTL is pretty useless for pursuit.

It mostly is. It seems that there is some sort of possibility for tracking, as per A New Hope, but for the most part it seems that its a futile effort. Perhaps the ISD chasing them was just being stubborn given that they had the plans for the Death Star aboard.

FASTER, maybe but completely ineffective for trying to chase a ship. The other thing is maneuverability: I've never seen an ISD whip a 180.

Dude, the fastest we've seen them move onscreen is at March 8 when the ship was hurling out of control at a moon.

Granted, they have to have a higher top speed due to simple logic of them being able to move through star systems, but yeah, that seems to be the combat speed. Slow and steady.

Very slow.

I think it would be like trying to catch a mountain bike with a bus.

Um, no. A bus is actually faster than a mountain bike at full throttle, but in this case, ST ships are much faster.

Originally Posted by Kittamaru

I meant Spock wtfpwning Vader by transporting in behind and Death Gripping him

Um...that was the Vulcan nerve pinch.

**Apocalypse2001** · 05-08-10, 03:15 AM

I think Kittamaru was exagerrating with the 'death grip' comment.

**alpinedigital** · 05-08-10, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Kittamaru

http://www.howitshouldhaveended.com/...id=68701708001

Epic video... so worth the watch. Make sure you watch the ENTIRE thing - I'd say it's pretty accurate!

Okay, I clicked that link and before the Trek vid played, an 'awareness test' kinda clip played and I missed the chance to click the link to go to that site. The test clip had two chicks talking and at the end it asks a question to see if the viewer was paying attention to what they were saying. I missed what they were saying, the question, and everything else LOL

Anyone have any idea how I can see the chicks again? lol

**alpinedigital** · 05-08-10, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by Hellblade8

A bus is actually faster than a mountain bike at full throttle, but in this case, ST ships are much faster.

Well Im saying, a Star Trek Mountain Bike is too fast to catch on foot, but a SW character could get on a Hyperspace Bus that would still be ineffective since it cant maneuver worth a crap.

And so I submit that since ST ships can cruise at warp and change headings, it's safe to say they could simply outmaneuver any pursuing imperial threat.

I've seen this sort of chase before: You can literally stand just outside their reach and taunt them... knowing there's not a damned thing they could do. I've seen it in nature too... some animals will cautiously sniff around a predator in plain view, knowing the threat is minimal because they're fast enough to escape.

Whats this say for the SW v ST scenarios? Only what I thought from the beginning: Cannons on turrets are too slow to aim, ISDs can't maneuver for shit, the business end of the Death Star is only scary if you're sitting still, and eventually somebody's ship is going to be infested with nanoprobes. We can argue all day about who's more powerful and can destroy the other, but I submit that if one side IS, the other side will risk and sacrifice almost anything to acquire their technology. Funny thing is, it's in the Borg's nature to wanna do that anyway.

**Hellblade8** · 05-08-10, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by alpinedigital

Well Im saying, a Star Trek Mountain Bike is too fast to catch on foot, but a SW character could get on a Hyperspace Bus that would still be ineffective since it cant maneuver worth a crap.

Ah, I see.

Whats this say for the SW v ST scenarios? Only what I thought from the beginning: Cannons on turrets are too slow to aim, ISDs can't maneuver for shit, the business end of the Death Star is only scary if you're sitting still, and eventually somebody's ship is going to be infested with nanoprobes. We can argue all day about who's more powerful and can destroy the other, but I submit that if one side IS, the other side will risk and sacrifice almost anything to acquire their technology. Funny thing is, it's in the Borg's nature to wanna do that anyway.

Well, it really tells us that either side really isn't good at fighting each other. Starfleet FTL is too slow to do anything but carve a small piece of the Empire out and the Empire relies on mapped out hyperlanes that can actually be mined, so any invasion of the Federation would be nearly impossible. It's also worth mentioning that the much smaller fleet that guarded the two worlds that produced actual warships actually kept the Empire at bay in the EU.

Hell, if anything, the EU cripples the Empire more than it's helped, Saxton's stupidity aside. There's even an entire novel for the Death Star that point blank says that its weapon is technobabble. Ie, just by brute force, the main weapon can only scorch the surface of a continent.

The thing is though, there's also one major difference. In about two hundred years, the Empire would have collapsed and gone through both liberal republic, back to tyranny, and back again. In the meantime, the Federation begins to master space-time and start building 3.2 km long Universe Class Starships.

**George1** · 05-08-10, 05:58 PM

HELLO,I AM BACK AT LAST!
had some technical difficulties.

**Apocalypse2001** · 05-08-10, 07:52 PM

about Romulan power sources: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjPR1X_as6c&NR=1#t=5m20s

the distortion that they are detecting was deliberate. Deanna as Tal'Shiar asked for this, albeit indirectly, to be done so the Enterprise can follow the Warbird.

**Kittamaru** · 05-08-10, 09:48 PM

No no, there is a Vulcan Death Grip too

**George1** · 05-09-10, 04:07 AM

Vulcan Death Grip? how is that....?

**Kittamaru** · 05-09-10, 09:58 AM

The Vulcan death grip was a fictitious Vulcan technique, apparently invented by Spock. Its application appeared similar to that of the mind meld, but it was administered with two hands, and without speaking.

In 2268, Spock used the so-called "Vulcan death grip" on Captain Kirk as a means to fool the Romulans into believing Kirk was dead, so as to bring him back on board the USS Enterprise without causing suspicion. Spock claimed that he had used the death grip instinctively in response to an unexpected assault from Kirk.

When informed of the incident, Nurse Christine Chapel exclaimed "But there's no such thing as a Vulcan death grip." Kirk replied that the Romulans did not know that. (TOS: "The Enterprise Incident")

Ah, my bad - I haven't actually seen that episode, but I mis-read its entry

Lol, Spock is a white-faced liar XD

**George1** · 05-09-10, 10:28 AM

ok,so basically it can induce apparent death?

**George1** · 05-09-10, 10:30 AM

by the way,this map http://starwarsatlas.uw.hu/map/layer/wookiee.htm
is really interesting,with links to the major planets in the SW galaxy...
just showing of

**Apocalypse2001** · 05-09-10, 10:59 AM

here' something to use when we are in a hopeless situation LMAO
http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/

**Apocalypse2001** · 05-09-10, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by George1

by the way,this map http://starwarsatlas.uw.hu/map/layer/wookiee.htm
is really interesting,with links to the major planets in the SW galaxy...
just showing of

wow...that take s really long time to load. Of course it's a big ass graphic, go figure lol

**George1** · 05-09-10, 11:17 AM

http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/
lol,i don't know if it's funny or sad...sad cuz that moment in episode 3 is one very sad

**Kittamaru** · 05-10-10, 12:03 AM

New facts for ST Weapons Power:

Originally Posted by ricrery1 View Post
The Founders homeworld was bombarded by twenty ships and they said it would take an hour to destroy the crust with the entire fleet bombarding it.

Originally Posted by Kronecker Delta

You... you have no idea what you're talking about.

It takes 10^28 joules of energy to melt the crust of a planet. To do that in an hour with just twenty ships...

Each ship would have to be supplying 250 gigatons every second.

This is a very conservative estimate by the way, assuming the crust is uniformly made of the most common rock on Earth and that said crust is only 25 kilometers thick. It could easily take a hundred times that much energy.

Originally Posted by Regula View Post
You mean "The Die is Cast" where a Romulan/Cardassian fleet was going to destroy a planet down to the mantle in 6 hours with said 20 ship. Ships that have to travel in pairs to threaten a Galaxy Class starship at that.

Even at six hours that still comes to some 25 gigatons every second. That is very, very powerful.

Originally Posted by ricrery1 View Post
They said one hour, but the total bombardment would be six hours. Seriously though, Romulan and Cardassian ships shoot weapons that really dwarf Federation ones.

So Federation shields are super strong, but have weak weapons while Romulan and Cardassians have great guns but pathetic shields? Because the Federation doesn't seem to have much trouble fighting a war against those guys and actually winning from time to time.

**George1** · 05-10-10, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by Kittamaru

New facts for ST Weapons Power:

Originally Posted by ricrery1 View Post
The Founders homeworld was bombarded by twenty ships and they said it would take an hour to destroy the crust with the entire fleet bombarding it.
”
“
Originally Posted by Kronecker Delta

You... you have no idea what you're talking about.

It takes 10^28 joules of energy to melt the crust of a planet. To do that in an hour with just twenty ships...

Each ship would have to be supplying 250 gigatons every second.

This is a very conservative estimate by the way, assuming the crust is uniformly made of the most common rock on Earth and that said crust is only 25 kilometers thick. It could easily take a hundred times that much energy.
”
“
Originally Posted by Regula View Post
You mean "The Die is Cast" where a Romulan/Cardassian fleet was going to destroy a planet down to the mantle in 6 hours with said 20 ship. Ships that have to travel in pairs to threaten a Galaxy Class starship at that.
”

“
Even at six hours that still comes to some 25 gigatons every second. That is very, very powerful.
”
“
Originally Posted by ricrery1 View Post
They said one hour, but the total bombardment would be six hours. Seriously though, Romulan and Cardassian ships shoot weapons that really dwarf Federation ones.
”
“
So Federation shields are super strong, but have weak weapons while Romulan and Cardassians have great guns but pathetic shields? Because the Federation doesn't seem to have much trouble fighting a war against those guys and actually winning from time to time.

impressive numbers (i saw the episodes) but remember that Cardassians are way behind the Romulan and Federation (give or take) so in this situation we need separate numbers for Cardassians Romulan and Federation.
these numbers are all combined,impressive yes,but what about individual
Cardassians and Romulan ships?