Star Wars vs Star Trek

**George1** · 03-13-10, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by Kittamaru

You are all so stupid it's funny... this has been settled time and again.

corect!but not how you say it!

Star Wars could, potentially, give Star Trek a good run for it's money.

it would be the other way around,as slaves are a big part of the Empire's economy!

HOWEVER
That implies all of Star Wars fighting against all of Star Trek, and even then, there are ace cards (Borg, 8472, Dyson Builders, Voth, etc)

i have already showed the borg and 8472 to be just a fair game for the Empire,the Voth don't care,and the Dyson Builders are death!
they don't exist any more!died millions of years ago!

Now, if we assume logical progression of technology (a safe assumption) and take the last saga of Star Wars vs the last saga of Star Trek (Nemesis)... well, you have yourself a clear winner. Star Wars tech hasn't really advanced in centuries according to canon... things have gotten bigger to get more powerful. That isn't advancement, that's just upscale.

yes it did,but you didn't bother research about sw tech after Luke!
for example there were new kinds of weapons,propulsion,and other stuff!
the thing is that the star wars civilization is at a point in which advancement is now so visible,because it was either already done in another
way,or simply to new to be visible!

Compare it to even just the Federation, who's ships have gotten smaller, more powerful, faster, and more durable, and all this has been done in one lifetime. Hell, compare the Constellation class to the Galaxy or Sovereign classes... lets not even THINK about the Prometheus, Luna, Norway, Akira, or other combat-designed classes...

right!
how fast can they cross the galaxy?they might advance,but they are still primitive by the Empire's standards1

Also remember, the Feds are NOT the strongest combatants in Star Trek - Look at the Klingons, who's ship weapons expand and contract the targets hull BILLIONS of times a second at the molecular level to cause damage... I don't care what kind of armor you have, it'll be raped.

no they would not! Executor class can be ram by an entire star destroyer,but
it's powerful shield would protect the ship; the SD would explode on it's shield!

Now, if we take a more logical fight:
Star Trek vs Star Wars, with all sides acting as they normally would.

ok,seams fair!

We'd have something along the lines of:
Federation/Klingons/Romulans/Gorn/Hydrans/Lyrians/Vulcans/Andorians/Remens/ other Trek Allies + Rebel Alliance

The rebels?ok..

vs

Empire

vs

Borg

vs

8472

vs

'Vong

what the fuck is this?

Now, maybe I'm just a bit naive... but if the Rebels alone were able to topple the Empire... I think the Rebels + half of Star Trek could EASILY wipe the floor with them...

hahaha! you don't know anything!the rebels had ships capable of fighting the empire,star trek DOSE NOT! even with the rebels,they would have few chances!
this is how the rebels did it:
1.grew for 20 years.(not as the rebellion)
2.went into hiding.
3.HIDED!made as many ships as possible!
4.Waited for an opportunity!Founded the Rebellion!
5.Attacked the first death star!only won because the ds was low equiped
to counter small fighters.
6 Went back into hiding!
7.Attacked the second death star with all they've got!only won because the death star was incomplete,Palpatine died,Vader died, letting the Empire with
no leadership!
8.Founded the New Republic and waged war with the Empire for 21 years!

note that in the 21 years period the battle of yavin and battle of endor are
also included.

now tell me how is this of any help!the rebellion was actually ill fit to fight the
Empire,the emerging of the New Republic is the only reason the Empire was
defeated...and it was still there,21 years after,as the Imperial Remnant!
that was by the way as big as the federation,klingot,romulans and cardasians combined!

**Apocalypse2001** · 03-13-10, 03:05 PM

the thin is you are still too young to understand efficiency. The Ma'ki rebels did a better job with the Cardasians in less than one third the time. And they didn't waste time and resources building ships. You have to understand it's not always about who has the bigger dick, but who is most clever, and can become just as kniving as their enemy. The true warriors are the ones who can achieve victory with very little.

**George1** · 03-13-10, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Apocalypse2001

the thin is you are still too young to understand efficiency. The Ma'ki rebels did a better job with the Cardasians in less than one third the time. And they didn't waste time and resources building ships. You have to understand it's not always about who has the bigger dick, but who is most clever, and can become just as kniving as their enemy. The true warriors are the ones who can achieve victory with very little.

you don't seam to understand efficiency.
the cardasian union is even more primitive than the rest!
and it is a police state,more easy to defeat from the inside!
the Empire was a totalitarian regime,controlling millions of planets!
you can't defeat that with some spy's!
and did i mention that the rebels DID defeat the Empire with very little??
cuz they did,compared to the Empire's military might,they were so small,
the Empire wasn't even getting started when they were struggling to survive!
as i said,they won only because Plapatine died,and had no successor!
the Moff's and Grand Moffs turned on each others to get the throne,and
the New Republic eviscerated them one by one!

**~~ricrery~~** · 03-13-10, 08:12 PM

Not to mention the GE was REBORN as the GI, and they built the GALAXY GUN. Then when they lost, they turned into the Fel Empire! You Star Trek tards are so funny with your ignorance. I love how you idiots refuse to believe a 25,000 year old Tier 3 civilization can't produce planetary bombarding weapons. Also, calcs on SD.net have shown the DS 1E38Joules, thing is, that's more power than a requirement to be Tier 3! The Borg are still LEVEL 1-2, look up Karshev scale.

**Nexarc** · 03-13-10, 08:55 PM

I am getting tired of such predictable antics. First, SW fans claim or the superiority of their tech just because they say so. Then ST fans come up with evidence that disproves most of the claims. SW then turn to either the Incredible Cross Section books or Wong's SD.net propaganda as conclusive evidence. However ST fans then point out the flaws in the calculations, and correct them. With no room to go to, Warsies either become repetative and restate their claims and/or become hostile; using death threats or bullying in an attempt to force ST fans into submission. It was such lunacy that made me switch over to ST. I have no problems accepting SW as superior ONLY IF you can supply concrete and difinitive evidence.

I may not be able to make my own calculations, but I can check and confirm others. SD.net has terribly flawed math, using the best of Wars (like destroying pure iron asteroids 50m across) and the worst of Trek (such as using the density of WATER for starship hulls). If going off site, try using more unbiased calculations such as those on st-vs-sw.net or Starfleet Jedi. They have areas where Wars is superior, and others where Trek is. Never give numbers for evidence unless you have some other evidence to back up your claims.

**Kittamaru** · 03-13-10, 08:58 PM

George, I have to ask... how old are you?

And Ricery - nobody is claiming they can't bombard a planet... hell, we can do that TODAY. It's, honestly, nothing special.

The problem is, you are trying to compare B-52 Bombers (Star Wars) with F/A-18 Super Hornets (Star Trek). Yes, Trek may be smaller, carry less overall firepower, and be able to take fewer hits from similar-scale weapons... however, their craft are a hundred times more efficient joule-for-joule in how they USE that energy.

Example:

Star Wars weapons work on explosively decoupling the target on a macroscopic scale (in other words, a standard *BOOM* explosion)

Star Trek Phasers work by decoupling the SUB ATOMIC BONDS of the targets hull... in other words, it doesn't really matter WHAT your ship is made of, save for a handful of highly-rare and highly-difficult to work with materials, that armor is going to come apart just the same.

Yes, the Death Star is big, bad, scary, and one hella mofo to fight that you DO NOT want to see on your door step.

However, it was commanded by a crew so incompetent that I wager that a bunch of homo-erectus (prehistoric man) could have done a better job...

Not to mention it's a HUGE target... ever hear of lumping all your eggs in one basket?

Here's how things would go down:

DS comes out of hyperspace on the edge of the Sol system (Earth system)

As it (slowly) moves towards Earth to get in range of it's superlaser, it is under constant scruitiny by every sensor available, from Jupiter Station to starships screaming past at just below warp one sensors at maximum resolution.

Within minutes, a weakness (the exhaust port) is found.

One trans-phasic torpedo later, and the DS is a rapidly expanding cloud of debris.

**Kittamaru** · 03-13-10, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Nexarc

I am getting tired of such predictable antics. First, SW fans claim or the superiority of their tech just because they say so. Then ST fans come up with evidence that disproves most of the claims. SW then turn to either the Incredible Cross Section books or Wong's SD.net propaganda as conclusive evidence. However ST fans then point out the flaws in the calculations, and correct them. With no room to go to, Warsies either become repetative and restate their claims and/or become hostile; using death threats or bullying in an attempt to force ST fans into submission. It was such lunacy that made me switch over to ST. I have no problems accepting SW as superior ONLY IF you can supply concrete and difinitive evidence.

I may not be able to make my own calculations, but I can check and confirm others. SD.net has terribly flawed math, using the best of Wars (like destroying pure iron asteroids 50m across) and the worst of Trek (such as using the density of WATER for starship hulls). If going off site, try using more unbiased calculations such as those on st-vs-sw.net or Starfleet Jedi. They have areas where Wars is superior, and others where Trek is. Never give numbers for evidence unless you have some other evidence to back up your claims.

Glad to see you back Nexarc

And glad to see you've embraced logic over desire

I will give SW credit - in some aspects, it kicks Treks ass... like ship production speeds, sheer numbers, and the apparent lack of fear of death.

**~~ricrery~~** · 03-13-10, 09:52 PM

Oh these Trektards make me laugh, even though the Death Star blast had the firepower of 1E38 Joules: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/.../Alderaan.html and yet the "Half the power of the fleet" statement states that the fleet does over twice what it takes to be a Type 3 civilization, then why the fuck is it weaker? Star Trek is Type 1 like it or not. Plus, ICS is a REFERENCE book or G-Canon, made DIRECTLY for the movies.

Nexarc, you are stupid to believe your sites are unbiased? I bet you are such a fanboy you think the Federation of Planets can compete with the Culture

It seems that Star Wars fans aren't delusional fanboys, you're the idiots who refuse to admit the Federation of Planets loses to Culture or the Borg loses to the Xeelee, you're the mindless fools who can't accept Star Trek is weak. So NO! Stardestroyer.net is NOT biased, and Starfleetjedi.com IS! That's how ignorant and fanboyish you Trektards are.

**ProphetofWisdom** · 03-13-10, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by ricrery

Star Trek is Type 1 like it or not.

Irken Empire supported Nitpick: The Federation and most other ST powers are high-low Type 2.

Nexarc, you are stupid to believe your sites are unbiased? I bet you are such a fanboy you think the Federation of Planets can compete with the Culture

I recall reading through that once and only one person as I recall thought that the Culture could be defeated and everyone else said he didn't know a thing about the Culture and that the UFP and the rest of Trek would be taken out easily. So that is not a good example.

*Sits back on The Massive and watchs as all the Sci-fi powers in this thread fall to the power of the almighty IRKEN EMPIRE!*

"The universe is ours for the taking! It is only a matter of time before all the races of the universe serve... the IRKEN EMPIRE!" - Almighty Tallest Red.

"I'll have them serve me curly fries." - Almighty Tallest Purple to the above.

UNIVERSAL CONQUEST IS NEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

**~~ricrery~~** · 03-13-10, 10:27 PM

Even if my aliens can't beat them (yeah right), then the Tralfamadorians can, they see time and are immortal.

**Nexarc** · 03-13-10, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by ricrery

Oh these Trektards make me laugh, even though the Death Star blast had the firepower of 1E38 Joules: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/.../Alderaan.html and yet the "Half the power of the fleet" statement states that the fleet does over twice what it takes to be a Type 3 civilization, then why the fuck is it weaker? Star Trek is Type 1 like it or not. Plus, ICS is a REFERENCE book or G-Canon, made DIRECTLY for the movies.

Nexarc, you are stupid to believe your sites are unbiased? I bet you are such a fanboy you think the Federation of Planets can compete with the Culture

It seems that Star Wars fans aren't delusional fanboys, you're the idiots who refuse to admit the Federation of Planets loses to Culture or the Borg loses to the Xeelee, you're the mindless fools who can't accept Star Trek is weak. So NO! Stardestroyer.net is NOT biased, and Starfleetjedi.com IS! That's how ignorant and fanboyish you Trektards are.

Please restrain yourself and reread what I posted. I said that the calculations are unbiased, not the site. If it was, one side would have had a distinct and absolute advantage over the other. SD.net however is. The math on the main pages are correct, however the evidence used has been fudged to prove that Wars is superior. The boards are incredibly worse, with anyone having a pro-trek attitude immediatly harrassed or expelled from the so-called 'debates'.

ICS is not G-canon as by definition, G-canon is written/directed by George Lucas himself, thus the 'G'. Unless Curtis Saxton is Lucas in disguise, these books are Continuity (C) or Secondary (S) canon.

Myself and the more senior members on this board are trying to be unbiased. We restrain ourselves from just claiming numbers and try to present evidence to back up what we claim. If presented with hard, concrete evidence that can be proven, we will bow down to the other side. From my perspective, however, YOU are the one acting like the obssessed/ignorant fanboy by providing invalid information and calling names when presented with information that goes against what you think.

**Nexarc** · 03-13-10, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by ProphetofWisdom

*Sits back on The Massive and watchs as all the Sci-fi powers in this thread fall to the power of the almighty IRKEN EMPIRE!*

"The universe is ours for the taking! It is only a matter of time before all the races of the universe serve... the IRKEN EMPIRE!" - Almighty Tallest Red.

"I'll have them serve me curly fries." - Almighty Tallest Purple to the above.

UNIVERSAL CONQUEST IS NEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bow down to ZIM or face impending dooooooom!

**Nexarc** · 03-13-10, 10:59 PM

In response to the ICS question, read this.

**~~ricrery~~** · 03-13-10, 11:16 PM

HAHA! Tralfamadorians would screw all over some Nickelodeon universe, and they aren't a war like race!

**~~ricrery~~** · 03-13-10, 11:18 PM

Too bad it doesn't matter now, considering 1E38Joules is more than a Type 3 Civilization needs to have, and that's the firepower of half the fleet, WOW. So, it doesn't matter if something made by a man with a PH.D (more logic than your fanboist brain) says. Yeah, like saying Borg can adapt to physical/brute force, Federation has planet busters, Phasers can kill anything, and etc. You are all fanboist lying sacks of shits, not the Warsies.

**Nexarc** · 03-14-10, 12:16 AM

Originally Posted by ricrery

Too bad it doesn't matter now, considering 1E38Joules is more than a Type 3 Civilization needs to have, and that's the firepower of half the fleet, WOW. So, it doesn't matter if something made by a man with a PH.D (more logic than your fanboist brain) says. Yeah, like saying Borg can adapt to physical/brute force, Federation has planet busters, Phasers can kill anything, and etc. You are all fanboist lying sacks of shits, not the Warsies.

First I believe that the Republic/Empire is roughly a middle or high class 2 civilization. They can't be Class 3 as Class 3 means that they can control all energy that a galaxy contains. In all EU sources, there is an unknown/uncharted region that fills between 40 to 60 percent of the GFFA. Thus, the Republic and the Empire can't be Class 3 as they don't control the entire galaxy.

Next, give me an example that supports those huge output numbers. I don't care who gave them, what matters is that you can prove to us that those are correct.

Finally, we use reasoning to determine the capabilities of the Borg. The Federation has the capacity, but not the will power, to build planet-busters and we never claimed that they did. Phasers can kill MOST species. A simple hand phaser destroyed a several kilometer long pipeline and has constantly been shown to vaporise people when on maximum setting. Most of the time however, the phaser is only set to stun as the Feds are against murder of sentient beings in any form.

Trekkies and Trekkers speculate, but rarely lie. As far as I have seen, there has been vary little lying in the 800+ pages on this board, most of it coming from younger or naive fanboys/girls who barely know either franchise.
Restrain yourself of your own claims unless you show proof. You're the one being the fanboy by swearing and calling names.

**ProphetofWisdom** · 03-14-10, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by ricrery

HAHA! Tralfamadorians would screw all over some Nickelodeon universe, and they aren't a war like race!

Evidence please, if you claim something you have to provide evidence when claiming they can do it.

Originally Posted by ricrery

Too bad it doesn't matter now, considering 1E38Joules is more than a Type 3 Civilization needs to have, and that's the firepower of half the fleet, WOW. So, it doesn't matter if something made by a man with a PH.D (more logic than your fanboist brain) says. Yeah, like saying Borg can adapt to physical/brute force, Federation has planet busters, Phasers can kill anything, and etc. You are all fanboist lying sacks of shits, not the Warsies.

The exact quote from the movie is about the defenses only. The fact that the rebels already knew about the superlaser and it being the reason they were attacking would not need to me mentioned, on the other hand the defense TL would need to be because they are a threat to the fighters.

But, do it your way. I just have to nitpick things that do not agree with canon is all. Its my job.

I will get back to on the other thread later. But to make myself clear now on Irkens vs. Xeelee: Only COMPETENT Irkens stand a chance, at best I give them 65% without access to Xeelee or similar tech. With Xeelee tech + competence gives them at least a 90% chance. Normal Irkens on the other hand? At best with some of the tech they have a 10% chance, though I may be wrong the how the tech works since I haven’ seen the exact episodes again so it is more likely 0%. I am not the fanboy, the fanboy is the one that will not admit that their side can lose and the other may possibly win.

*Replaces brain with rubber piggy*

So, who thinks their side or even all the metion Sci-fi powers in this doomed thread think they can take on the almighty IRKEN EMPIRE!!!!!!!!!

**ProphetofWisdom** · 03-14-10, 12:35 AM

Originally Posted by Nexarc

First I believe that the Republic/Empire is roughly a middle or high class 2 civilization. They can't be Class 3 as Class 3 means that they can control all energy that a galaxy contains. In all EU sources, there is an unknown/uncharted region that fills between 40 to 60 percent of the GFFA. Thus, the Republic and the Empire can't be Class 3 as they don't control the entire galaxy.

No, its far closer to 20 percent of the galaxy that makes up the Unknown Regions, the GE controled most of the known galaxy which would be around 80% of the galaxy.

Next, give me an example that supports those huge output numbers. I don't care who gave them, what matters is that you can prove to us that those are correct.

I believe there is a G canon showing in RoTJ with a Mon Cal cruiser and ISD firing 800 meter bolts at each other and the ISD is completely vaporized which would put it in the low GT range at least. I believe it was just a couple seconds before Akbar had all the ships focus fire on the SSD. I'll dee if I can find the vid with it on Youtube later.

Finally, we use reasoning to determine the capabilities of the Borg. The Federation has the capacity, but not the will power, to build planet-busters and we never claimed that they did. Phasers can kill MOST species. A simple hand phaser destroyed a several kilometer long pipeline and has constantly been shown to vaporise people when on maximum setting. Most of the time however, the phaser is only set to stun as the Feds are against murder of sentient beings in any form.

True on the phasers, but they are NDF-make it go away weapons unlike SW weapons which are DET. The weapons advantage in terms of damage down to the shields and hull are more in favor of Star Wars because of that.

**Nexarc** · 03-14-10, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by ProphetofWisdom

No, its far closer to 20 percent of the galaxy that makes up the Unknown Regions, the GE controled most of the known galaxy which would be around 80% of the galaxy.

Thanks, my personal GFFA map's file was corrupted and I couldn't read the legend clearly

I believe there is a G canon showing in RoTJ with a Mon Cal cruiser and ISD firing 800 meter bolts at each other and the ISD is completely vaporized which would put it in the low GT range at least. I believe it was just a couple seconds before Akbar had all the ships focus fire on the SSD. I'll dee if I can find the vid with it on Youtube later.

Please do, most appreciated

True on the phasers, but they are NDF-make it go away weapons unlike SW weapons which are DET. The weapons advantage in terms of damage down to the shields and hull are more in favor of Star Wars because of that.

Please clarify those terms again (NDF and DET). My memory's somewhat fuzzy on them.

**~~ricrery~~** · 03-14-10, 12:45 AM

Xeelee easily. They own the black holes in galaxies, so, while the Irkens are just sitting there with WEAK ASS SHIPS, the Xeelee would be altering their galaxies to collide with one another, pissing themselves in the process, or they could time travel back before the Irkens came into existence and destroy the entire galaxy they were in fire sh!ts and giggles, or they can just send in ships the Irkens can't scratch and destroy their star systems. They can also trap them in a TIME LOOP so they never progress in history, and repeat the same things over and over through time.

Next the Daleks, they perfected time travel, created hundreds of millions of solar system busting ships with the ability to destroy said systems in numerous ways (supernova, turning the system into atoms etc.), next, they have the Time Vortex and can become vengeful gods and kill all the Irken. They are also more psychotic with hate of every living thing but themselves. Did I mention they created the reality bomb in a few months and stole planets from times (like Pyrovilia in 79 AD and the fat nursing planet in 2009 AD).

Next the Time Lords, they created several universe destroying artifacts, they perfected teleportation before the universe was half their size, and they also trapped civilizations in time loops. There were also individual Time Lords capable of conquering and destroying the universe. Their civilian ships could move around black holes and detonate stars and move stars/planets, with zero strain.

More like the Irvens have 0% for Xeelee, 0% for Daleks, 0% for Time Lords. DALEKS ARE SUPREME IRKEN ARE WEAK!