12-19-09, 07:17 PM #17161
It's all of wars vs all of trek OR all of empire vs all of federation.
Thing is, some debators can't make up their mind (cough)TWScott(cough)
And no, a Galaxy class starship is a match for 100 or more Star Destroyers... the reason is that 99% of the turbolaser energy will be reflected by the navigational deflector / gravimetric base of the shields... LASERS are simply USELESS against Federation starships... lasers of all power levels have been obsolete for centuries...
The only part of a turbolaser that'll do any damage to a federation shield is the kinetic portion from the plasma bolt. And that'll be negligable.
Now, against a federation STATION (which doesn't HAVE navigational deflectors) turbolasers might be effective... but even then, the gravimetric nature of shields mean they could likely deflect most of the blast harmlessly away.
12-19-09, 07:51 PM #17162
What about an Aggressor-class destroyer against a Trek ship? It's a Zann Consortium cruiser. It has two main cannons in the front; one fires a massive ion shot probably stronger than the one on Hoth and the other a cannon blast stronger than I'd estimate 20 turbolasers.
12-19-09, 07:52 PM #17163
Hello, I am new here, one of my buddies introduced this site to me. Well, I am only 13 years old, so my sincere apologies if my posts are not exactly the best ( P.S. I use understatements a lot ). I read a lot, and I will try my best to prove my points and please point out any grammar errors and spelling errors, I will appreciate it. I would also quote the Art of War a lot ( my favorite book, I am a "nerd", but who cares? ).Anyways, I will get on topic now.
I think the force should play a major role in this debate. In Star Wars, the force is one of the most important things. No force, no story. In case you haven't noticed, the story is centered around the force. Without the force, the Sith wouldn't exist, without the Sith, the Empire would never gain that much power. If the force is not debated, then its like taking the Empire's sword and expecting it to fight unarmed against an armed opponent. Star Wars vs Star Trek ( more accurately, the Empire vs the Federation ) is kind of like the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact vs U.S.A. and the NATO, the only difference is the Empire isn't producing so much that its collapsing under its own weight. I admit, precision and electronics and play a role in deciding victory, but those aren't the only factors. Mobility ( as a whole ), communications, careful planning, strategic brilliance, morale, quality of the troops, numbers and firepower. The Empire have greater mobility thanks to hyperspace, it have awesome communication systems due to HoloNet and other super-fast communication systems, for careful planning and strategic brilliance....well it depends on if the books count, because its only 7 movies, and 1 cartoon ( I don't even bother counting the other Clone Wars one, because how short it was ), so the majority of the Star Wars stuff comes from the books, so I think the books should count, AS LONG AS it doesn't DISAGREE with the films and the new cartoon. If the books count then....take a good look at the Republic Commandos, also the Empire is more daring in terms of their tactics, because they don't give a damn about casualties. Also the force users have precognition and force abilities to help them win.In terms of morale, probably Star Trek, because most of the stormtroopers are probably conscripts, but the Empire do have confidence, pride and discipline, also battle meditation.... ( or at least I think its called that ). For troops quality, the Empire doesn't do so well there for the average trooper, but for its special forces are awesome. Nobody can deny that the Empire VASTLY outnumbers the Federation. For firepower, depends on if the force counts, and if the books count, in the expanded universe, the Empire got some pretty neat stuff. Besides, here is a common stereotype, the Imperial fleet's ships look bulky and ugly, it doesn't mean it is less advanced then the ships used by the Federation ( I am not saying the ISDs are more advanced or anything, I am just pointing out a stereotype ). The rebel ships look better in my opinion. Also I have to point out that Species 8472 need their ships in formation to destroy a planet, it doesn't mean each ship have 1/9th the firepower to do so ( at least that's what I think it is ). As long as the Empire have a commanders with enough brains to separate their ships, so its less then 9 ( assuming my hypothesis about the formation is right ) at one area, and stop them from getting into formation, it eliminates that ability. ( If anyone want to debate strategy and tactics, I am more then willing to do so )
Also, what are we debating?? Is Star Wars represented by the Empire, the Galactic Alliance, the Republic, the Confederation or what?? Who represents Star Trek?? Its not our fault that there is so many rebellions, coups and such in the Star Wars galaxy.
P.S. I am all for Star Wars, unless somebody want to add Macross ( or Gundam ) in the debate .
12-19-09, 08:05 PM #17164
Welcome to the party. And it's not nerd, it's geek. Nerd is a put down while geek a compliment. You've got a point about the force being a major role. And as much as it pains me to say this, Star Trek's warp is better than light speed. It's officially ALLof Star Wars v.s ALL of Star Trek. I am also a big Star Wars fan.(Hence my name, Omega133 is a stormtrooper designation)
P.S. Gundam Wing is one of my favorites. And your name Shogun, named after the TV show?
12-19-09, 08:13 PM #17165
Hyperdrive is SO MUCH MORE faster, there is mutiple evidence. The fact that Obi-Wan traveled to Kamino which is near the edge of the galaxy from Coruscant in what seems to be less then a full day, also they didn't explore and take over nearly the whole galaxy by being stupid and slow. Han Solo claims that he been all over the galaxy ( he looks as if he is in his thirties and don't give me the relativity crap, it doesn't work with hyperspace apparently ), and his claims are trustworthy ( there is nothing to disprove it ).
P.S. Gundam OO and Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch ( Lelouch of the Rebellion ) are my favorites. I never watched Gundam Wing.
P.P.S. I refuse to call it lightspeed, I call it hyperspace.
12-19-09, 08:16 PM #17166
I don't know what the specifications of warp and hyperdrive are.
P.S. Wing has a really rollercoaster storyline and good characters. I can't compare the graphics to anything cause I haven't seen much.
12-19-09, 08:24 PM #17167
Warp drive is REALLY slow, so its bad tactically. So the Federation can't respond to situations as fast, plus their communication systems are awful, I am amazed at how they manage to FIGHT AT ALL with those communication systems. Would you mind if I call you Omega-san? ( cuz I don't know your gender, and san works for either gender, Kun is for guys, chan is for girls, senpai is for senior and sama is for superiors I am studying Japanese in my spare time and I think its cool ), or mabey I will call you Omega-senpai.....
P.S. I will try to watch Gundam Wing in my spare time, sounds cool.
12-20-09, 02:32 PM #17168
By all means you can call me Omega-san if that's what you wish. I know little Japanese, since I am 80% German myself. I'm a guy, and I don't think Omega-senpai would be appropriate since I am only a year older than you(14). As much as I enjoy these side chats these would be more appropriate on yours or my page.
12-20-09, 02:45 PM #17169
Omega-san if their comm systems are decent, then there will be no Star Trek Voyager. The range is pathetic, so is the speed. In Star Wars, they can transmit messages from the edge of the galaxy to Courscant instantly, its even much faster then hyperspace. It is like walking vs fiber optic, seriously. Star Wars can stage and execute more organized assaults, much faster. If Star Wars had Star Trek's comm systems, then Obi-Wan would have be executed on Geonosis, without anyone to rescue him. Since they have the awesome HoloNet, Obi-Wan could be rescued .
Agreed, I will keep on topic.
12-20-09, 02:55 PM #17170
Its not our fault that the Star Wars galaxy is not nearly as peaceful and had multiple rebellions, and coup d'etas. Things like that tend to happen when the Republic/Empire is almost as large as the galaxy. GUIDELINES are needed for this debate to work, because are we going by the Republic, CIS, the Empire, the New Republic, or the Galactic Alliance?
12-20-09, 03:09 PM #17171
12-20-09, 03:19 PM #17172
That means we can debate strategy and tactics too? Sweet , it really depends on what references can we use, is it just the 7 films + the T.V. show? Or does the expanded universe count as long as it doesn't conflict with canon, because its not our fault that the greater majority of Star War is in the books.
12-20-09, 03:22 PM #17173
12-20-09, 04:13 PM #17174
Anyways I was wondering if this would work using the force.....
I mean, the dark side might have abilities where they can bend the will of others, even the person is not weak-minded.
This will make a quick fight:
Palpatine: You will go to San Fransisco, when its in range, start a coup, then self-destruct.
A Starfleet captain: This is ridiculous, I will not do that I will....Yes, your majesty!
I dunno if this would work or not.....
P.S. I know that is not the force, that is Geass, but I am just saying can this be replicated using the force?
Last edited by Shogun; 12-20-09 at 04:21 PM. Reason: correction
12-20-09, 04:15 PM #17175
12-21-09, 03:34 PM #17176
I just recently made a collauge(if thats how you spell it) of SW vs ST. I put it under my albums on my page. I think it's cool but i'd like to know what you guys think.
12-21-09, 05:35 PM #17177
12-21-09, 05:43 PM #17178
No force, there was an unofficial treaty that thered be no force and no Q. Reason why, the Q could simply whisk you out of existance and you could do nothing about it.
Of course, that kind of eliminates the idea of this debate, so none of either.
Also, while your right about the formation, each ship does have significant power to probably destroy atleast a large fraction of the planet. But also, shields dont affect the shot, the shot will cut through the shields and armor like butter.
Your ships could try to seperate them, but they simply cant.
12-21-09, 06:03 PM #17179
12-21-09, 06:13 PM #17180
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