Star Wars vs Star Trek

[TW Scott]

Quotes to back it up? Or are you making this up out of your ass again?

And I mean quotes from books, movies, etc. If it's from a book, I'm sorry to say your fucked.

No I'm not.

Books are canon for Star Wars, I don't care what you say. Lucasfilm outweighs your opinion every day of the week.

Output of Heavy Turbolaser cannons on Aclamator class troop transport 200 gigatons.

It is of consequence to know that by ANH they are 20+ years out of date.


Power output of Galaxy Class Starship thanks to Data in True Q: 12 Billion gigwatts

It is of consequence to know I multiplied this figure by ~4 to assume best emergency output.

[TW Scott]

Thank you... finally someone else that gets the fact that phasers have an onboard targeting system and don't output full power on a non target (if it can help it)

actually you would think if they had an onboard targeting system that they would never miss, but they do and often. I mean look at Riker and Worf missing the Reman at less than 15 yards while he saunters across a hallway.

and if they had automatic power systems and a targeting device wouldn't they detect the target is behind a light packing crate and increase the power enough to blow through the crate.


See how commonsense ruins both theories. Especially when the devices are NEVER mentioned in the show or movie.

[TW Scott]

You have to remember... Gorn are very very thick skinned... I mean, hit a person with a baseball bat in the back and you're likely to break their back. Hit an alligator in the back, and you just piss it off.

They maybe thick skinned, but they weren;t even wounded or slowed down. That means they were likely unaffeced entirely. That means there was likely minimal to no concussive force and no shrapnel. Still in my opinion an effective weapon if used correctly combine localized destruction with a wide blanket of confusion and distraction, a perfect morale breaker.

[Kittamaru]

Are you kidding? You are assiging black hole level power to the shields of ST. That's insane and against everything in canon. Especially since canon scene refute that very idea.


If the shields were Black Hole level power the following would be true.

When Shields are raised you would not be able to see the ship, only a black void.
When the shields are raised everything nearby would be sucked into the shields.
Even Phaser, Disruptors, Polaron' and Photon Torpedoes would be affect same as the rest

In Star Trek, black holes aren't that big a deal... remember, Romulan Warbirds use a small singularity to power their ships. A Sovereign class starship is more than a match for a Warbird. So is the Defiant, Prometheus, upgraded Galaxy, and other true warships.

[Kittamaru]

Hello? That was at best a glancing shot that barely touched Leia. It still knocked her back and severly burned. In reality the shot missed leia but hit the bunker right next to her arm the resulting explosive results knocked her back and burnt her arm.

I mean how do you explain Greedo in ANH?

Glancing shot... you are talking about the same scene, right?







Hardly what I would call impressive...

As for greedo? Who knows, maybe he ate some C4 for dinner? *shrugs*

[Kittamaru]

No I'm not.

Books are canon for Star Wars, I don't care what you say. Lucasfilm outweighs your opinion every day of the week.

And yet Lucasfilm says books are lower cannon, contradicted by your movies

Output of Heavy Turbolaser cannons on Aclamator class troop transport 200 gigatons.

Maybe in your books, but in the movies they are shown time and again to be far below that, and movies overrule books.

It is of consequence to know that by ANH they are 20+ years out of date.


Power output of Galaxy Class Starship thanks to Data in True Q: 12 Billion gigwatts

Amanda: "It's hard to imagine how much energy is being harnessed in there."
Data : "Imagination is not necessary; the scale is readily quantifiable. We are presently generating 12.75 billion gigawatts per . . . "

Exact quote from the scene... per what? Putting up a time unit is odd (watts per second? That'd be given in kilowatt hours then, or joules, as joules is a measure of watts per second... perhaps he meant per unit of fuel consumed? Who knows, we sure as hell don't

It is of consequence to know I multiplied this figure by ~4 to assume best emergency output.

Seven : "The optical assembly is properly aligned. I am ready to access the main power supply."
Kim : "After you."
(The pair climb down, and Seven begins to reach into a conduit)
Kim : "Wait! What are you doing, there are five million gigawatts running through there!"
Seven : "The exoskeleton on this limb can withstand it."

This gives a lower limit of 5,000,000 gigajoules (5,000 terajoules) per second for Voyager's power generation abilities, or 34 times my 147 terajoules/second figure for the Enterprise-D. This could either imply that the Enterprise-D was on a very low-power mode, or that my use of the term "day" is incorrect, and that something like "hour" (which, obviously, would result in a figure 24 times higher) would be more appropriate.

Some dispute such figures, pointing instead to "The Dauphin"[TNG]:

Data: "Sir, sensors indicate the communication originated from a terawatt source on the planet."
Riker: "That's more power than our entire ship can generate."
Data: "It is what is needed to penetrate the atmosphere."

However, there are several better things that can be done here than to throw out every other quote in favor of the quote from "The Dauphin". First, take a look at the context . . . they're talking about communications. We know from ST:TMP, et cetera, that starships carry not only subspace communications equipment, but also devices capable of transmitting via "primitive" radio frequencies, so one could argue that by "entire ship" Riker was employing a synecdoche. This can be reasonably well established, given that we know from "Who Watches the Watchers"[TNG] that a 4.2 gigawatt reactor can power a subspace relay station. It is likely, therefore, that the ship's entire complement of communications equipment can't send signals with a terawatt of power behind them, and that therefore Riker did not refer to the entire power generation capabilities of the starship Enterprise.

This allows us to fit the "Dauphin" quote into the numerous other examples, and not simply throw it away in light of the preponderance of evidence. It also provides a better solution than throwing away the preponderance of evidence in favor of a single quote.

[Kittamaru]

actually you would think if they had an onboard targeting system that they would never miss, but they do and often. I mean look at Riker and Worf missing the Reman at less than 15 yards while he saunters across a hallway.

and if they had automatic power systems and a targeting device wouldn't they detect the target is behind a light packing crate and increase the power enough to blow through the crate.


See how commonsense ruins both theories. Especially when the devices are NEVER mentioned in the show or movie.

A) The targetting system isn't perfect - it cannot account for stupid people (and face it, Riker ain't the brightest in the pack when it comes to aiming)

B) Perhaps the packing crates are full of antimatter explosives and the targeting scanner knew that and thus blowing thru it would be a VERY bad thing? Who knows, you and I sure as hell don't

[Kittamaru]

They maybe think skinned, but they weren;t even wounded or slowed down. That means they were likely unaffeced entirely. That means there was likely minimal to no concussive force and no shrapnel. Still in my opinion an effective weapon if used correctly combine localized destruction with a wide blanket of confusion and distraction, a perfect morale breaker.

Or just set a phaser to lvl 4 wide pattern and heavy-stun the entire room at once, then take them prisoner That works too, right?

[TW Scott]

In Star Trek, black holes aren't that big a deal... remember, Romulan Warbirds use a small singularity to power their ships. A Sovereign class starship is more than a match for a Warbird. So is the Defiant, Prometheus, upgraded Galaxy, and other true warships.

Okay they use SMALL ARTIFICIAL SINGULARITIES with no more effect gravity than a small star. And the Warbird in question is actually a superior vessel firepower wise to the GCS, it just has a max speed of only warp six.

And a Defiant is actually not a true match for a GCS. It may have similair shielding, improved maneuverbility, but a GCS has more Torpedo tubes facing forwards than the Defiant has weapons.I'll give you the Prometheus, but it's a prototype. And a GCS is a warship.

However your idea that the shield would universally stop any laser or plasma just becuase it gravimetric (and we're not even sure that is the case) is laughable at best for the reasons I explained.

[TW Scott]

Glancing shot... you are talking about the same scene, right?







Hardly what I would call impressive...

As for greedo? Who knows, maybe he ate some C4 for dinner? *shrugs*

You can clearly see that the bolt would have had to come from at least a 20 degre angleto her shoulder. Mainly becuase it had come stright into her should from the left side it would have struck the bunker. As it is the bolt barely touched the clothes, which was probably a form of ablative armor anyways.

Remember you can't just the effectiveness of a weapon by flukes like that. Honestly look at the seen in ANH where Han blew out torso sized chunks of concrete with his hand blaster. Look later when ever sotmtrooper stuck in the chest was knocked down or fell forward becuase of charred armor over charred abdomen.Or hell when Artoo was violent knocked back more than ten feet with a single shot from a carbine, and he's not a light little fellow either.

[TW Scott]

Original TW Scott
Answer by Kittamaru
Rebuff and correction by TW Scott


No I'm not.

Books are canon for Star Wars, I don't care what you say. Lucasfilm outweighs your opinion every day of the week.

And yet Lucasfilm says books are lower cannon, contradicted by your movies

And we have seen nothing in the movies that even remotely contradicts the facts i have listed. Everytime we have see a Turbolaser used it has been against another ship with shields designed to repel that type of fire power.


Output of Heavy Turbolaser cannons on Aclamator class troop transport 200 gigatons.

Maybe in your books, but in the movies they are shown time and again to be far below that, and movies overrule books.


Where in the movies has it shown to be lower? You have not given even one smidgen of proof that claims a lower firepower.


It is of consequence to know that by ANH they are 20+ years out of date.


Power output of Galaxy Class Starship thanks to Data in True Q: 12 Billion gigwatts

Amanda: "It's hard to imagine how much energy is being harnessed in there."
Data : "Imagination is not necessary; the scale is readily quantifiable. We are presently generating 12.75 billion gigawatts per . . . "

Exact quote from the scene... per what? Putting up a time unit is odd (watts per second? That'd be given in kilowatt hours then, or joules, as joules is a measure of watts per second... perhaps he meant per unit of fuel consumed? Who knows, we sure as hell don't

Actually that is script. I own that episode on video and final cut is:

Data : "Imagination is not necessary; the scale is readily quantifiable. We are presently generating 12.75 billion gigawatts."

In scientific terms if a measure of time is not given with Watts the assumption is that it is per second. Look at your light bulb I am sure it only says 60, 75 or 100 Watts not Watts per second.



Seven : "The optical assembly is properly aligned. I am ready to access the main power supply."
Kim : "After you."
(The pair climb down, and Seven begins to reach into a conduit)
Kim : "Wait! What are you doing, there are five million gigawatts running through there!"
Seven : "The exoskeleton on this limb can withstand it."

This gives a lower limit of 5,000,000 gigajoules (5,000 terajoules) per second for Voyager's power generation abilities, or 34 times my 147 terajoules/second figure for the Enterprise-D. This could either imply that the Enterprise-D was on a very low-power mode, or that my use of the term "day" is incorrect, and that something like "hour" (which, obviously, would result in a figure 24 times higher) would be more appropriate.
Some dispute such figures, pointing instead to "The Dauphin"[TNG]:

Your kidding right? You think 5 million gigawatts is less 12.75 billion gigawatts? In your mind a billion is less than a million? You don;t get that the figure given by Data is 2,550 time more than the figure given by Harry? Do you realize you just made a enormous blunder yet?

Data: "Sir, sensors indicate the communication originated from a terawatt source on the planet."
Riker: "That's more power than our entire ship can generate."
Data: "It is what is needed to penetrate the atmosphere."

However, there are several better things that can be done here than to throw out every other quote in favor of the quote from "The Dauphin". First, take a look at the context . . . they're talking about communications. We know from ST:TMP, et cetera, that starships carry not only subspace communications equipment, but also devices capable of transmitting via "primitive" radio frequencies, so one could argue that by "entire ship" Riker was employing a synecdoche. This can be reasonably well established, given that we know from "Who Watches the Watchers"[TNG] that a 4.2 gigawatt reactor can power a subspace relay station. It is likely, therefore, that the ship's entire complement of communications equipment can't send signals with a terawatt of power behind them, and that therefore Riker did not refer to the entire power generation capabilities of the starship Enterprise.

This allows us to fit the "Dauphin" quote into the numerous other examples, and not simply throw it away in light of the preponderance of evidence. It also provides a better solution than throwing away the preponderance of evidence in favor of a single quote.

I just always assumed the Terawatt was the communications limit as well. So I didn;t go by that. I went by the 12 billion gigwatts.

[TW Scott]

A) The targetting system isn't perfect - it cannot account for stupid people (and face it, Riker ain't the brightest in the pack when it comes to aiming)

Yet among the officers on the Enterprise he is considered one of the top ten aims. (Guinan doesn't count as she is a Civillian)

B) Perhaps the packing crates are full of antimatter explosives and the targeting scanner knew that and thus blowing thru it would be a VERY bad thing? Who knows, you and I sure as hell don't

Why would you have Antimatter explosive mixed in with the foodstuff and basic equipment? Wouldn't you have it locked away in rooms you can't enter and can only fetch via transporter? Always go with the simplest answer and the simplest answer is that phasers are made to stop at the first thing they hit and unless set at certain levels light metal or heavy plastic is an effective cover.

[TW Scott]

Or just set a phaser to lvl 4 wide pattern and heavy-stun the entire room at once, then take them prisoner That works too, right?

Works well in a room of unarmed people. Not so well against armored people or battle droids.

[Kittamaru]

You can clearly see that the bolt would have had to come from at least a 20 degre angleto her shoulder. Mainly becuase it had come stright into her should from the left side it would have struck the bunker. As it is the bolt barely touched the clothes, which was probably a form of ablative armor anyways.

Remember you can't just the effectiveness of a weapon by flukes like that. Honestly look at the seen in ANH where Han blew out torso sized chunks of concrete with his hand blaster. Look later when ever sotmtrooper stuck in the chest was knocked down or fell forward becuase of charred armor over charred abdomen.Or hell when Artoo was violent knocked back more than ten feet with a single shot from a carbine, and he's not a light little fellow either.

Likewise, a hand phaser has been seen to totally vaporize a person in Star trek on multiple occasions... so pick your poison scott. You can't have your cake and eat it too!

[Kittamaru]

Original TW Scott
Answer by Kittamaru
Rebuff and correction by TW Scott


No I'm not.

Books are canon for Star Wars, I don't care what you say. Lucasfilm outweighs your opinion every day of the week.

And yet Lucasfilm says books are lower cannon, contradicted by your movies

And we have seen nothing in the movies that even remotely contradicts the facts i have listed. Everytime we have see a Turbolaser used it has been against another ship with shields designed to repel that type of fire power.


Output of Heavy Turbolaser cannons on Aclamator class troop transport 200 gigatons.

Maybe in your books, but in the movies they are shown time and again to be far below that, and movies overrule books.


Where in the movies has it shown to be lower? You have not given even one smidgen of proof that claims a lower firepower.


It is of consequence to know that by ANH they are 20+ years out of date.


Power output of Galaxy Class Starship thanks to Data in True Q: 12 Billion gigwatts

Amanda: "It's hard to imagine how much energy is being harnessed in there."
Data : "Imagination is not necessary; the scale is readily quantifiable. We are presently generating 12.75 billion gigawatts per . . . "

Exact quote from the scene... per what? Putting up a time unit is odd (watts per second? That'd be given in kilowatt hours then, or joules, as joules is a measure of watts per second... perhaps he meant per unit of fuel consumed? Who knows, we sure as hell don't

Actually that is script. I own that episode on video and final cut is:

Data : "Imagination is not necessary; the scale is readily quantifiable. We are presently generating 12.75 billion gigawatts."

In scientific terms if a measure of time is not given with Watts the assumption is that it is per second. Look at your light bulb I am sure it only says 60, 75 or 100 Watts not Watts per second.



Seven : "The optical assembly is properly aligned. I am ready to access the main power supply."
Kim : "After you."
(The pair climb down, and Seven begins to reach into a conduit)
Kim : "Wait! What are you doing, there are five million gigawatts running through there!"
Seven : "The exoskeleton on this limb can withstand it."

This gives a lower limit of 5,000,000 gigajoules (5,000 terajoules) per second for Voyager's power generation abilities, or 34 times my 147 terajoules/second figure for the Enterprise-D. This could either imply that the Enterprise-D was on a very low-power mode, or that my use of the term "day" is incorrect, and that something like "hour" (which, obviously, would result in a figure 24 times higher) would be more appropriate.
Some dispute such figures, pointing instead to "The Dauphin"[TNG]:

Your kidding right? You think 5 million gigawatts is less 12.75 billion gigawatts? In your mind a billion is less than a million? You don;t get that the figure given by Data is 2,550 time more than the figure given by Harry? Do you realize you just made a enormous blunder yet?




I just always assumed the Terawatt was the communications limit as well. So I didn;t go by that. I went by the 12 billion gigwatts.

Subject unsuccessfully avoided scott, try again.

[Kittamaru]

Yet among the officers on the Enterprise he is considered one of the top ten aims. (Guinan doesn't count as she is a Civillian)

Stated where and when please?

Why would you have Antimatter explosive mixed in with the foodstuff and basic equipment? Wouldn't you have it locked away in rooms you can't enter and can only fetch via transporter? Always go with the simplest answer and the simplest answer is that phasers are made to stop at the first thing they hit and unless set at certain levels light metal or heavy plastic is an effective cover.

And there you have it - stun settings aren't designed to penetrate, they are designed to knock you on your ass.

[Kittamaru]

Works well in a room of unarmed people. Not so well against armored people or battle droids.

Sure it does - just bump up the level a bit and there you go. Hell, if you have to, jump straight to lvl 10 or so and start vaporizing large sections of material at once, armor and battle droids included.

[TW Scott]

Likewise, a hand phaser has been seen to totally vaporize a person in Star trek on multiple occasions... so pick your poison scott. You can't have your cake and eat it too!

True they have been seen to destroy not vaporize entire people. An that is ol style phasers. TNG and beyond haven;t shown the destruction... However it also shows the phaser be stopped dead cold by the flimsiest of barriers with little effect to the barrier.

Vaporize means they were converted to a gaseous form, usually by heat.

[TW Scott]

Subject unsuccessfully avoided scott, try again.

Did you even bother reading it? Did you see where you made to gigantic mathematical error? Come on read through again and this time slowly.

[TW Scott]

And there you have it - stun settings aren't designed to penetrate, they are designed to knock you on your ass.

But it seems the Kill setting and even the "fry his ass" setting is stopped by anything thicker than Tinfoil.