Star Wars vs Star Trek

[Lord Vasago]

I disagree.
AI like Data is common, but the EMH I think is far more advanced. Both of them have shown just about every sign of human behavior and abilities but without limitations. They're designed with a function in mind, but as needs arise they can adapt to serve secondary functions as well. The only limit to their ability is the limitations of the writers' imaginations.

Just because something is really strange like a weapon that crystalizes something, that doesnt make it more advanced. It just makes it weird. I can't really say if that's all it is or if it has a plot-specific function but I wouldn't mind seeing a clip of that. You guys seriously need to start posting more image and video links before somebody needs to ask for it.
I'll try to do my best but there's not so much footage on youtube

Oh, and Andromeda... how do they have the greatest advantage? I might have to see if they have weaknesses and disadvantages that you're overlooking cuzz I don't see anything whooping Trek very easily.

well for starters speed. With slipstream they travel across 3 galaxies.
dimentional shifting ships making it allmost impossible to fire upon.
multiverse travelling
Singularity weapons, Q-like creatures and of course 'route of the ancients' a map of everything in the universe and beyond. I'll try to find some footage

[alpinedigital]

I think WH40k would kick all their asses, for one thing their ships are the most badass warships out there. 14 times larger than the enterprise, and armed and armorued as such. Hundreds of weapons batteries.

Wait... cuzz see this is bullshit idiocy to bring a game into debate against movies and TV shows. A game which only has one function and that is to play battle scenarios. Of course everything in them designed for battle first and foremost is going to have an enormous amount of thought behind it, including all the current weapons ideas, strengths and weaknesses from existing games and movies. Not to mention, the SW and ST tech stuff was founded decades ago, and everything in 2000 and beyond SHOULD be able to kick their asses, just like our computer speeds SHOULD be hella faster than those made decades ago.

That goes for more recent TV shows as well like Andromeda for instance. Of course Trek has been an ongoing show and probably has loads of improved ideas so it's the oldest show to still have some stuff advanced enough to wow the crowds of today. And I still think with the right person's imagination, it can still battle anything out there... just takes a strategic genius with the correct probabilities to run the scenario realisticaly, kinda like that Deadliest Warriors show, where they input the data and simulate battles and you get win/loss percentages. Pretty sure Trek won't get slaughtered consistently against any show.

[alpinedigital]

well for starters speed. With slipstream they travel across 3 galaxies.
dimentional shifting ships making it allmost impossible to fire upon.
multiverse travelling
Singularity weapons, Q-like creatures and of course 'route of the ancients' a map of everything in the universe and beyond. I'll try to find some footage

"Curiously, slipstream cannot be navigated by AIs (they have a 50% chance of choosing the correct path). Only organic pilots can "sense" a way to their destination (they have a 99% chance to choose the correct path), and although AIs are fitted on all large ships, they always require an organic pilot for interstellar travel. It is thought to be the process of choosing a path that makes the chosen path the correct one. Also, the more frequently used routes are often easier, faster and more predictable."

Sounds incredibly original, and yet, terribly LAME. What scientific basis is there for any being having a better chance at plotting a course by 'sensing' it? A map of everything in the universe is also incredibly LAME. At some point, writers should realize that enough is fuckin ENOUGH. Super duper uber slipstream to allow traveling to distant galaxies is a retarded concept unless the plot involves something of that scale and distance. I'm quite curious why somebody would feel a need to go to that extreme. 1 galaxy is quite sufficient for the location of trek for so many decades... there shouldn't be a need to use multiple galaxies because then you never get a feel for what all takes place in 1 single galaxy. Oh well, whatever.

[Lord Vasago]

"Curiously, slipstream cannot be navigated by AIs (they have a 50% chance of choosing the correct path). Only organic pilots can "sense" a way to their destination (they have a 99% chance to choose the correct path), and although AIs are fitted on all large ships, they always require an organic pilot for interstellar travel. It is thought to be the process of choosing a path that makes the chosen path the correct one. Also, the more frequently used routes are often easier, faster and more predictable."

Sounds incredibly original, and yet, terribly LAME. What scientific basis is there for any being having a better chance at plotting a course by 'sensing' it? A map of everything in the universe is also incredibly LAME. At some point, writers should realize that enough is fuckin ENOUGH. Super duper uber slipstream to allow traveling to distant galaxies is a retarded concept unless the plot involves something of that scale and distance. I'm quite curious why somebody would feel a need to go to that extreme. 1 galaxy is quite sufficient for the location of trek for so many decades... there shouldn't be a need to use multiple galaxies because then you never get a feel for what all takes place in 1 single galaxy. Oh well, whatever.

I must agree with you that the need for a organic pilot is kinda lame. I just recently discoved this show and allthough it got me hooked there are some things that i have doubts with.

In the link you provided of voyager the gift they travel 9500 ly. Janeway comented that they were just beyond Borg terretory. Damn 9500 ly... at least.. that is enormous so i find it pretty logical that the borg would have expanded beyond our Milky Way even though it is not mentioned on screen (or is it ) So the use of multiple galaxies doesn't sound to bad. It's not because the feds can't leave our Milky Way (except Wesley once) that other species can't.

Like you find that multiple galaxies is Enough I rather welcome the idea. Myself i find Multiverse Enough lol. In my opinion our universe is vast enough and wonderfull enough that writers should use this rather then alternative universes.

[Lord Vasago]

Well for one thing the andromeda universe isnt in the line up, and two, the chaos gods will kill the abyss pretty easily considering that they can corrupt any alien human or otherwise and the magog themselves would be no problem to corrupt.

The andromeda universe could be the same as the ST. Lol In one episode the run into a ship thats been missing for 3000 years. the clothing of the crew sure looks like Trek tome lol

How could you corrupt the spirit of the Abyss?? It is pure evil. I think it would find a way to corrup your chaos gods. It manipulated so many people they started a intergalactic war distroying the commonwealth

[alpinedigital]

Anyone remember that DS9 episode I think somebody was affecting the laws of probability and O'Brian was having good luck? I can't help but think if we outfitted Trek Ships with this device, they'd be extra unstoppable for they'd never miss a target, much like O'Brian was never missing the bull's eye in his darts game



And for hand to hand combat or shootouts...

[antaran_1979]

i don't find the multiple galaxy travel over the top or silly. at some point in iterstelar travel it just becomes the next logical step. what i find a bit silly is the "map to everywhere" concept. i mean, the universe is so vast and dynamic. how do you make a map when the stars themselves are not going to be where they are tommorow, not to mention 10000 years in the future?

btw, i am yet to watch Andromeda, they haven't aired it here yet. the only thing i know for sure i am not going to like is Herk

[alpinedigital]

i don't find the multiple galaxy travel over the top or silly. at some point in iterstelar travel it just becomes the next logical step. what i find a bit silly is the "map to everywhere" concept. i mean, the universe is so vast and dynamic. how do you make a map when the stars themselves are not going to be where they are tommorow, not to mention 10000 years in the future?

btw, i am yet to watch Andromeda, they haven't aired it here yet. the only thing i know for sure i am not going to like is Herk

This is almost contradictory by the logic that I find going to multiple galaxies unnecessary. But then maybe my numbers are off. How many stars are there in a galaxy, and of those, how many have planets? Lots of exploring to do... well, that's an understatement of enormous proportions. And lets say one did want to turn their heading towards the immense blackness, their destination- some galaxy that could hardly be judged as worth the trip from this far away. A nearly inconcievable distance to put into perspective. I kinda just don't think so, MAYBE unless it was a whole fleet of ships because the only sci-fi entertainment available was some george lucas crap, then it does make sense because then you'd have lots of company that wants to go with you.

But if it's like Stargate, sure. Instant trip to a different galaxy, that's quite sensible if every planet with intelligent life was granted a Stargate. How about a signal relayed from galaxy to galaxy, just waiting for a species to stumble onto it like in Contact, and if/when we're smart enough to make use of it, it turns out to be specs for a sort of Stargate, but which should actually be a 'Galaxy' Gate. However, for a TV show, there's enough shit in 1 galaxy for season after season, spin-off after spin-off. There's no sense blindly going to a destination without first getting a half-ass understanding of what's here first.

But then that's why I LOVE Trek, its mediocre standard warp speeds allow for them to slowly and sensibly wander our galaxy and explore, take it all in, comprehend the good and the bad, and appreciate how good they have it just being alive to witness so many species, civilizations, and cultures. I think its painfully arrogant for us - humans, which once thought we were on this planet in the center of everything to think, well this planet isn't big enough, except that it is NOT, but wholy FUCK, to say the galaxy isn't?

Our lifespan is too short in duration for 'multiple galaxy' shit, especially when it's concievable that even the galaxy we exist in probably isn't charted as well as ANYone would like to claim. Not every planet, every moon, every asteroid field like the Talaxians Neelix went and stayed with were, and planets purposely removed from records or cloaked or just naturally hidden from sensors, every man-made station or module cluster, or yet-imagined dwelling for any and all the species which in our human lifespan, we can't possibly meet all of because first, we don't even know where all of them are.

But say we did, or knew where enough of them are, given a nice round 100 year lifespan = 36500 days... here we can see the math. If during the TV Series, all the main characters died and each next generation continued in their place, or the show did episodes where it was far into their future where they say they're 2 or 3 generations later, then I can see how eventually they'd feel they have a better idea of what all this galaxy has to offer. And although this galaxy has more than plenty enough to do, there'll still be explorers who want to go that next step, or be the first to make it to a neighboring galaxy.

Oh, Also, the much longer-lived species (if the show's characters are different species) and Artificial life forms - they could be old enough to have been around. And if the species ancestors had already been around for thousands and thousands of years... If everyone in a multi-galaxy set sci-fi show was alien, the human would be like a frickin retard by comparison. Buck Rogers but REALLY lost about everything. They'd need a method of implanting data at an accelerated rate just to bring him up to date on how to use simple technology. LOL

[alpinedigital]

the funny part is that the phasers in ST actually look more like lasers then the actual lasers in any other sf. you know; one long beam instead of rapid short ones lol

Maybe its because, well I never heard of a particle bolt, only particle beams. I've heard of laser beams but also laser bolts.

[alpinedigital]

I always wondered why on Star Wars, they entered the Death Star trench and just stayed in the trench, til they got to the point where they fired the torpedos, then flew out of the trench... instead of flying directly towards the exhaust port, or entering the trench much closer to the target area instead of 50 miles back? It was the very first thing that went through my mind... even as a child! It just didn't make sense to limit your ability to maneuver against any pursuing enemies for any lengthy duration.

[mavericstud9]

Which universe would win?

Star Trek vs. Star Wars vs. Spaceballs vs. Farscape vs. Dune vs. Stargate not sure they even fight-maybe at first,but being most are made up of good guys trying to make a difference,I think eventually they work their difference to get along.. First just because they are all science fiction realities, doesn’t each unique physical laws would compatible. Star Trek primary force seems to the warp drive or more over wormholes and warp space whereas Star Wars primary force is well the Force. Farscape I'm not sure what primary physical forces are other some sort of wacky wormhole science. Space forget-it's joke universe. And Stargate force mainly is the Stargate through hyperspace and higher realities. Chances are any of these characters crossing into another reality where the scientific laws are slightly different, their technologies and paranormal abilities just may not behave as we see in their separate fictional realities. Would Stargates work in the Star Trek Universe ?Would the Jedi Knights and the Force work in the Stargate Reality ?Would the warp drive of Starfleet work in the Star Wars Universe, when all we see is hyperspace created wormholes through hyperspace .And none of them would correct in the Spaceball reality, where everything is done for a joke or Farscape had allot of weirdo Hollywood new age science fantasy governing it's reality. I know fans like think who'd beat who, but they forget the science of physics-that determine the laws of time and space. It ain't just simple as having Superman beat up the Hulk. And they saying Yay-my guys won.
Doc Thompson

[Hellblade8]

The andromeda universe could be the same as the ST. Lol In one episode the run into a ship thats been missing for 3000 years. the clothing of the crew sure looks like Trek tome lol

How could you corrupt the spirit of the Abyss?? It is pure evil. I think it would find a way to corrup your chaos gods. It manipulated so many people they started a intergalactic war distroying the commonwealth

Are we talking about 40k chaos gods? If so, I don't think anything from Andromeda is going to stand a chance against those guys. You'd need to gather at least 4-6 Greater Deities from the D&D pantheon if you want a chance at taking those guys on, and that's still rather difficult since killing the Chaos Gods would just make room for one of the lesser chaos gods or daemon princes.

[Lord Vasago]

Are we talking about 40k chaos gods? If so, I don't think anything from Andromeda is going to stand a chance against those guys. You'd need to gather at least 4-6 Greater Deities from the D&D pantheon if you want a chance at taking those guys on, and that's still rather difficult since killing the Chaos Gods would just make room for one of the lesser chaos gods or daemon princes.

well i woudn't recognise anything from 40k warhammer if it stood up and bit me in the ass lol.

[antaran_1979]

does anyone have any data on what do guys in Andromeda have? i spent some time of my lunchbreak to scout ou the Andromeda Ascendant from the net and it is stated they use anti-proton guns (particle beams), lasers (for PD), missiles, fighters and bombs. however there is no mentioning fo the energy output of the particle beams, nor the warhead's delivery mechanism or type of reaction that deals the damage. also there is not much data on the ship's passive deffences. some armour is mentioned and maybe some form of SIF.

and what about the other factions? what do they have?

[Lord Vasago]

does anyone have any data on what do guys in Andromeda have? i spent some time of my lunchbreak to scout ou the Andromeda Ascendant from the net and it is stated they use anti-proton guns (particle beams), lasers (for PD), missiles, fighters and bombs. however there is no mentioning fo the energy output of the particle beams, nor the warhead's delivery mechanism or type of reaction that deals the damage. also there is not much data on the ship's passive deffences. some armour is mentioned and maybe some form of SIF.

and what about the other factions? what do they have?

I'm curruntly watching season 4 and i can't say they have mentioned much in numbers. the only one comming in mind is that when a race made torps from toxic waste that in some odd manner went true the shields. Rommie stated that the missile impacting her hull was 50MT. Th detonation didn't do much harm to her hull but the toxic material "ate" his way trough ( quit rapid) altering the gravitational field stopped the toxic wast.

for the rest i just can say from onscreen that a small fleet can destroy a large earth-sized planet in minutes. but then again adromeda can fire thousands of torps i a minute.

the magog do use a point singularity weapon that fires ones every second. blasting its way true anything. but yet again no mentioning of any power output.

The Andromeda can refuel from a star going nova. engines run on matter-antimatter.

[antaran_1979]

i can't say about the in-universe lore, if someone was asking me, i don't think there is a more devastating weapon then shooting miniature singularities from a real life science point of view. they would posses the penetrability of neutronium charges and the explosive capabilites of small novas. as i recall the meson guns in Empirium Galactica 1 (the most advanced energy weapon in the game) fired those.

what about shield tech? do they mention any forcfield technology? the stuff i found does not mention shields for the Ascendan.

[alpinedigital]

i can't say about the in-universe lore, if someone was asking me, i don't think there is a more devastating weapon then shooting miniature singularities from a real life science point of view. they would posses the penetrability of neutronium charges and the explosive capabilites of small novas. as i recall the meson guns in Empirium Galactica 1 (the most advanced energy weapon in the game) fired those.

what about shield tech? do they mention any forcfield technology? the stuff i found does not mention shields for the Ascendan.

Trek would kick everyone's asses regardless.

[Hellblade8]

I'm curruntly watching season 4 and i can't say they have mentioned much in numbers. the only one comming in mind is that when a race made torps from toxic waste that in some odd manner went true the shields. Rommie stated that the missile impacting her hull was 50MT. Th detonation didn't do much harm to her hull but the toxic material "ate" his way trough ( quit rapid) altering the gravitational field stopped the toxic wast.

for the rest i just can say from onscreen that a small fleet can destroy a large earth-sized planet in minutes. but then again adromeda can fire thousands of torps i a minute.

the magog do use a point singularity weapon that fires ones every second. blasting its way true anything. but yet again no mentioning of any power output.

The Andromeda can refuel from a star going nova. engines run on matter-antimatter.

Does Andromeda have any shielding? That sounds pretty impressive given that even a 50 MT warhead would probably do something to the Enterprise E, though probably not much given her ability to take much higher yields. Then again, from what I can remember, Andromeda is supposed to be some kind of super warship in her setting, so other ships wouldn't be nearly as powerful.

I'm not sure how well they'd do against an organized group with ships that rival or even exceed Andromeda's power.

[Lord Vasago]

Does Andromeda have any shielding? That sounds pretty impressive given that even a 50 MT warhead would probably do something to the Enterprise E, though probably not much given her ability to take much higher yields. Then again, from what I can remember, Andromeda is supposed to be some kind of super warship in her setting, so other ships wouldn't be nearly as powerful.

I'm not sure how well they'd do against an organized group with ships that rival or even exceed Andromeda's power.

The 50MT numbers came from a race that somehow turned Toxic waste into a missile. Rommie says that it was ridiculous of the race to aim there weapons at her because she could destroy them in a sec. the missile being 50Mt didn't even bother her but what she didn't expect was that the toxix waste would "eat" his way trough.
Often she takes several Netians warships on. These ships use the same weapons as the Andromeda and are allways a small fleet.

Andromeda having shields or not is hard to figer out. I don't recall them mentioning shields but you see several times that the explosions happen very close but not actually on her.

[alpinedigital]

If by Toxic Waste, you mean a sort of corrosive acid, that's a good old-school trick... not technologically advanced but gets the frickin job done. A great example of how ancient technique beating modern tech...