Star Wars vs Star Trek

[fedr808]

the exhaust vent is replaced on the ds2.

yah by a hole big enough to fit A FUCKING SHIP.

[fedr808]

agreed but then again the suncrusher is piloted by one person way way smaller then 9 ships and it destroys suns.

Oh please, it does not outright destroy them, it just sends in warheads that destabalize and blow up the sun, it really doesnt take too much skill at all to do that.

It cant physically blow up the sun.

[Kittamaru]

Yah but when they use it theyre practically at a dead stop or moving very slowly.

I'd hardly call 15 knots "barely moving"

[Kittamaru]

the Scimitar was not built to hunt down the enterprise it was build to destroy the UFP;

and even if it has more weapons the philadelphia it still took only 6 torps to bring down the enterprise. if he fired two more she would be debri.

Uhm... no...

Did you watch the movie?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeYrkdyW2Cw

Each "blue" bolt is a Torpedo, each "green" bolt is a disruptor... they hit it no less than 6 times WHILE AT WARP, knowing EXACTLY where to hit the Enterprise. And yes, it WAS built to tackle the Big-E - Schinzon NEEDED Picard to survive...

After the Warp Core went down... let me watch and count for you:

We see no less than TWENTY torpedoes impact the Enterprise-E (eg, we see on screen) in the first MINUTE of the battle... TWENTY! WITHOUT A WARP CORE! And that's just what we see - we can assume at LEAST ten more while cut to the inside of the BigE or the inside of the Scimitar!

Once the Scimitar looses it's cloak, it unleashes a barrage of... at least a dozen Disruptor bolts AND half a dozen torpedoes AT ONCE on the Big E- at least half of those hit. Almost at the same time!

That ship took a shitload of hits before being disabled... I'd wager the Big-E did better than any ship in Wars history!

[Nexarc]

Oh please, it does not outright destroy them, it just sends in warheads that destabalize and blow up the sun, it really doesnt take too much skill at all to do that.

It cant physically blow up the sun.

Didn't we also put up Soran's trilithium missile as the ST equivalent everytime the Suncrusher showed up?

Uhm... no...

Did you watch the movie?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeYrkdyW2Cw

Each "blue" bolt is a Torpedo, each "green" bolt is a disruptor... they hit it no less than 6 times WHILE AT WARP, knowing EXACTLY where to hit the Enterprise. And yes, it WAS built to tackle the Big-E - Schinzon NEEDED Picard to survive...

After the Warp Core went down... let me watch and count for you:

We see no less than TWENTY torpedoes impact the Enterprise-E (eg, we see on screen) in the first MINUTE of the battle... TWENTY! WITHOUT A WARP CORE! And that's just what we see - we can assume at LEAST ten more while cut to the inside of the BigE or the inside of the Scimitar!

Once the Scimitar looses it's cloak, it unleashes a barrage of... at least a dozen Disruptor bolts AND half a dozen torpedoes AT ONCE on the Big E- at least half of those hit. Almost at the same time!

That ship took a shitload of hits before being disabled... I'd wager the Big-E did better than any ship in Wars history!

Further still, the Enterprise slammed past a warbird's wing with only shield flare and minor damage. If I can remember, the piece of debris compared to the Ent-E is of a larger size than the size of the asteroid in relation to the ISD in the Empire Strikes Back.

[fedr808]

I'd hardly call 15 knots "barely moving"

oh well... i get the feeling were really starting to make alpine quite upset.

[alpinedigital]

no I was away almost all day. I just didnt get time to read it all except to see SW fanboys getting asses handed to them.

[Hellblade8]

Uhm... no...

Did you watch the movie?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeYrkdyW2Cw

Each "blue" bolt is a Torpedo, each "green" bolt is a disruptor... they hit it no less than 6 times WHILE AT WARP, knowing EXACTLY where to hit the Enterprise. And yes, it WAS built to tackle the Big-E - Schinzon NEEDED Picard to survive...

After the Warp Core went down... let me watch and count for you:

We see no less than TWENTY torpedoes impact the Enterprise-E (eg, we see on screen) in the first MINUTE of the battle... TWENTY! WITHOUT A WARP CORE! And that's just what we see - we can assume at LEAST ten more while cut to the inside of the BigE or the inside of the Scimitar!

Once the Scimitar looses it's cloak, it unleashes a barrage of... at least a dozen Disruptor bolts AND half a dozen torpedoes AT ONCE on the Big E- at least half of those hit. Almost at the same time!

That ship took a shitload of hits before being disabled... I'd wager the Big-E did better than any ship in Wars history!

Much better actually. Given from what we've seen in Clone Wars, those shields don't last very long. It took seconds to get damage to start leaking through the shields of one of the Venators when the frigates fired upon it.

Also, I'm not sure if you're right about the torpedoes being white, I though their disruptors were the white ones, as we saw with their weapons. I might be wrong though, so I'd have to check (I'm a bit drained right now though).

[Kittamaru]

Much better actually. Given from what we've seen in Clone Wars, those shields don't last very long. It took seconds to get damage to start leaking through the shields of one of the Venators when the frigates fired upon it.

Also, I'm not sure if you're right about the torpedoes being white, I though their disruptors were the white ones, as we saw with their weapons. I might be wrong though, so I'd have to check (I'm a bit drained right now though).

They were able to fire Torpedoes at warp (the blue ones), but I know for a fact Disruptors cannot be used at warp, thus it is safe to assume Blue = Torpedo Green = Disruptor Bolt

[Hellblade8]

The Emperor's biggest ship constructed the Eclipse which is well over 30 kilometers long if the comparisons are right and carries a superlaser as it's main armament. It also carries five thousand heavy turbolaser, 5000 Heavy ion cannons, and tens of thousands of point defense weapons. Also it's shields are rated to be able to take a Single Shot form the Death Star II and it's main gun can take out one of the massive SHield Plates of the Death Star II. All in all a vehicle that only really only a few entities in ST could handle and all of them are hands off type dudes.

Yes, lets take a look at that. Assuming about a 50/50 spread on each side with the turbolasers, that's about 2,500 HTLs. However, the way HTLs are built is going to limit it to a few* hundred, say 200. However, we see that these ships easily miss half the time at slower slug ships. In fact, we saw three Venators perform an all out assault upon the bridge of the slow moving Malevolence and they only hit twice out of a dozen barrages. With that sort of accuracy, a ship like the Enterprise E is probably only going to be recieving only a few hits, probaly 20 at best (sorry, but when each ship has 8 HTLs firing for 48 bolts per second and only 2 actually hit the bridge in front of them, it's pretty bad), so probably about 200 MTs, no more than one or two torpedoes. And with a less concentrated energy per hit, the damage to the ship is also going to be a great deal less.

Furthermore, the great mass of the ship is going to make it a target of about 20 ships or so, no less than at least four. Now, a ship like the Eclipse is going to have impressive shields, but they're going to be designed for lower level 10-20 MT shots...not 100-200 MT shots and 20 MT phaser blasts. In short, targeting a specific area of the ship...like say the large forward canon, is going to blast through.

*right, a few...

Hey, I am a Trekkie from way back.

Please.

First of all Species 8472 are and isolationist xenophobic group. They would only join the conflict if the Empire entered Liquid Space. In fact if the Empire was destroying the Borg they might even help the Empire finish them off, but would more than likely just watch,

Hardly. While I agree that 8472 wouldn't be bothered by it unless it affected them, they would see the Empire as more of a threat due to their tendency to use fear as a weapon and to obliterate entire planets as a method of keeping people in line. And Janeway has more leverage anyhow, because she gave them knowledge on the nanoprobe weapons that she gave to the Borg in Scorpion.

Of course, the fact that the Empire is going to easily be tossed aside by the Borg is also a rather decent point and being weak won't exactly impress 8472.

As for Q, he has NEVER interfered in a strictly mortal affair. Show me where he helped in the Dominion War and then you might have an argument for Q coming out and saying hi. Unless there is some higher lifeform or great paradox about to happen the Continuim would just pop some popcorn and lay some bets.

Actually, if it wasn't for Q messing with the UFP and introducing them to the Borg, the Defiant Project wouldn't have been started until much later (if at all) when the Dominion became a threat. With Q's meddling, the UFP was able to advance their combat technology a great deal.

However I do have a counter. Say Q does enter the fray. Then I call the Ang-Ti monks who timewalk back to when the Q were cavemen and wipe them out. Oh and BTW just for a laugh according to the SW timeline The Battle for Vavin was 6 Billion years ago. So imagine the people of SW with 6 billion years of evolution and technological advancement.

Yeah, now imagine if you actually proved that they became uber advanced.

Hmm... yes far faster then the X-wings who were fighting near a giant battlestation 160km in diameter and who didn't want to crash into said giant station or fly away from the fight. And then faster then Luke who need time to gain a lock even with the Force... hmm, yes, so because all those times we see SW ships moving slow on screen they can't move faster, but then we see all that close range ST combat to and they don't seem to zoom out of sight like they would.
Maybe because they make the ships look like they move slow so you can see them? And then the Death Star seemed to move pretty fast for something its size.

That proves jack shit really. Granted, it takes talent, concentration, and skill, but it doesn't say anything about the speeds at which the fighters were flying around them. All they really need to do is fly fast enough that the large bulky turrets that were designed to take out frigats and warships didn't hit them. There we're not moing at god-like speeds and we see that Anakin's Squadron in the Malevolence Arch lost about half his squad when his fighters were flying over a few KM long warship. If they were moving at such high speeds, they would have been up and over before they'd lost that many fighters.

Yeah, Warp Strafe for the win would work if ST weapons were even One hundredth as powerful as SW weapons.

We're getting tired of this Scott. Prove SW firepower, now. I've already given dozens of examples in the past as to why your bullshit claims just don't work. We see that asteroids can punch through shields. We've seen that even slow moving asteroids is enough to have Grievous order full power to the forward shields in Downfall of a Droid, not to mention said asteroids are indicated to be an effective shield against three Venator class starships (which is retarded if they had GT firepower) and that when said frigates leave their aft shields off, ATs can use their large cannon (which is more or less equal to modern day cannons) to devsitate them.

Hell, in Storm over Ryloth, we see Anakin's apprentice lead 24 bombers and fighters against about six frigates and literally rape them in seconds.

ST has some of the best Tactical minds in Sci-Fi, however they cannot hope to try to deal strategically with an enemy with the movement and speed capabilities of SW.

Based on what? The UFP can cross their entire space with their fastest ship in the span of a week. It wouldn't take long with about 60,000 starships for them to put up an even defense, especially with planetary defenses, shields, and the fact that the UFP is 10x stronger than an SW ship.

Tactical speed, SW capital ships are slow. Of course their main jobs is simply smash their way through defenses and deliver massive firepower ant troops to target worlds supplying the enemy.

Which wouldn't work. Again, your army is in the days of when they'd only be effective against the 22nd Starfleet and even then only because they're so massively huge, rather than more advanced technology. Even the largest ships are really just large targets for ST ships and their defenses are too low to allow them to resist enemy firepower that's 10x stronger for very long.

Worse still, for a planetary invasion, they'd have to take millions of soldiers just to take it. And worse, they'd have to send them down in those slow, bulky shuttles which would be easy targets of UFP shuttles and fighters, not to mention capital ships and planetary defenses.

Fuck, even a UFP science outpost had a small theater shield.

Strategic speed: By ST's perception SW ships can move almost infinitely faster than them via hyperdrive.

Not really. And even so, they'd be jumping around blind and they're not very deadly compared to even most science and scout ships. Even a updated Miranda hunker is going to have more firepower than those things. Unless they're going against 4 to 1 odds, they're most likely going to come out ahead without too much problem.

ST takes and estimate 70 years to cross 1/4 the galaxy with Warp.

No, it took Voyager; a damaged and isolated ship 70 years to cross unknown, uncharted territory in 70 years. A ship of the exact same build crossed about 4,000 LY in a week. If Voyager was up to spec and in known territory, they'd have been able to reach home in about 4 months.

Not nearly as fast as hyperdrive, but it sure as hell isn't as fucking slow as you make it out to be.

The Borg took nearly 6 months to reach Earth the first time.

Yes and at that time they didn't have transwarp. The most recent look at transwarp shows them being able to cover 20,000 LY a day.

The Federation could detect them coming for weeks. Even the Voth would have taken some time to cross the entire Galaxy and they were the race with the fastest Transwarp. Now in SW it takes a mediocre vessel only a few days to travels from one end of the SW Galaxy to the other and it is 50% longer than our own.

No it isn't. In fact, the SW galaxy has to be smaller, since the novels based on the movies (G canon my friend) claim that they have a modest galaxy. That would make it comfortably smaller because the Milky Way is one of the larger known galaxies.

You're looking at 25,000 to 50,000 LY wide.

ST has no way of detecting a Hyperspace vessel until it breaks out of hyperspace. Since the vessel only needs to maintain a 2 times planetary radius distance from most worlds on Hyperspace Break out. That gives ST virtually no warning of an attack. This means only defenses on the planet or in wide orbit would even to enter battle. Now if SW sends the Death Star that means one destroyed planet sending a loud and clear message to every other world. The Empire is your only protection from annihilation.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, planetary defenses would be more than enough to hold them off. And the fact is, while a first strike from the Empire might take a few less defended and isolated worlds, it would cause the UFP to make each part of their territory either self-reliant or assign ships to defend them.

Given that even an updated small shit hunker like DS9 is able to take on 50+ Klingon warships with greater firepower and manuverability than ISDs, you're claims are downright laughable.

Unfortunately you are assuming that SW would be engaging in fleet destruction. Best way to cripple a fleet, destroy it's supplies. Bases cannot move under except the direst of circumstances and even that nearly destroys them. Frieghters have the manuverbility of a cow stuck in mud. And don't get me started on planets.....

So wait, you're going to send ships that have 1/10 the power of UFP starships against starbases where even old and small starbases originally designed to as a mining refinery can take on up to a hundred of them?

You'd need an invasion force of a thousand ships just to handle the station on its own, ignoring whatever planetary defenses, fighters, and nearby ships could add. And give we've also seen that the UFP can slap together 40 ships in times of peace without trouble and assemble hundreds of ships to respond to Borg threats.

And as for Freighters...they move at warp. The only time you're going to catch one is if you catch it in system, which even so, it can still escape going to warp.

And of course, those planets are going to be shielded and armed. Penal colonies and science outposts are armed with minimal shielding for God's sake.

With Sw strategic speed advantage they can strike all of these with zero warning. ST could signal for help, but in minutes the damage is already done. A Base wrecked, a frieghter captured, or a Planets captured/razed/destroyed.

Based on what? Freighters can go to warp. And why wouldn't they? It would take less than ten seconds and that's more than enough time for those beached whales to notice the ship and then speed over because they sure as hell aren't going to be able to see them in hyperspace.

In the case of defending fleets these ships will soon find out that they can either dance and avoid fire, but watch their protectee get destroyed or they can try to draw fire by staying still and buying the protectee precious seconds.

Again, you are basing your argument on rather shallow evidence. The Empire is first going to have to chart UFP space. And this is going to require using ships and probes in resources. And even doing so, they're just as likely going to accidently target Klingon, Romulan, Gorn, Cardassian, Breen, and other smaller governments with such attempts at blind alpha strikes. The first two of those governments are just as powerful as the UFP, with the Romulans holding about their own 50,000+ starships, most of which are just below the level of a GCS and can move undetected through space.

Sorry, but since the 200 gigatons was created by OBSERVING canon material and was made into G canon by Lucas you have no say in what you think is the firepwer of SW vessels.

Go fuck yourself. George Lucas has never shown GT level material in his films. If you want to prove it, go right ahead, but we all know you're going to either make a vague reference to something or you're going to ignore this challenge like you always do. Why? Because I've raped your GT bullshit time and time again without any problem.

Put simply, we've seen one T canon movie that has an atmosphere battle. We've seen one episode (Jedi Crash) with an atmosphere battle. Neither showed GT level destruction. In fact, we also see that a carpet bombing requires large fucking bombs that Vulture Bombers had to use to tear apart villages. Granted, they're pretty nice, but if they easily had GT level firepower, each fighter should easily have KT level bombs and only one would be needed, with another for escort and defense.

Instead, we see that it requires about half a dozen at least.

It should be of note however that if we went by the strictest rule of canon for both gneres and discarded EU (despite it being considered part of Canon) that the Asteroid Vaporization scenes of ESB provide more than enough power to take care of the Warp engine specs given by Data in True Q. Since there is no way a vessel can have more than 100% efficency and tat Shields could not possibly be 100% of the total energy a ship has......

Oh go fuck yourself. There was no vaporization from those weapons and the shields are clearly either a flook or those asteroids are poorly constructed...or even better, the ISDs actually waste energy with vaporizing energy fields that are likely to create a radius blast that damages the ships just as much as it protects it...making it entirely pointless. Even more so because a small rock hitting the ship and even puncturing a hole is nothing compared to having it utterly vaporized at point blank range.

Easy enough in SW. You send out hyperspace equip probe driods. These droids are programmed to make minijumps for as far as they scan and send back the required coordinates. Combine this with simple telescopic astronomy and advanced gravometric sensors and SW would have a reasonable map of the universe in a quick hurry. Contact with any number of races would grant them access to a glatic map, or at least general location of major planets.

So they have to jump out? You do realize the chances of the UFP and friends finding one fast enough to disable it and study it, right? How long do you think it will be before they realize that they could in fact, use gravity wells pull ISD fleets out of hyperspace? In fact, a nebula that bombers are able to fly through without any trouble have shown that larger warships need to calculate about a 12 parsec trip around it.

Okay, here's the deal.

Ah yes, go ahead and try to restablish you ballox again. I'll be here everytime to shoot it down.

SW ships are that much more powerful. Hell even and X-wing is a credible threat vs a Borg Cube (along the sdame lines as a Sovereign class vessel).

You know what? Fuck you.

What, do you masturbate to Darth fucking Vader before bed everynight? A Tie fighter has sub-kt weapons. In fact, similar ships such as the Y-Wings and their younger cousins are easily sub-kiloton in atmosphere in two different incidents. In fact, fucking Vultures require special bombs to bombard fucking villages.

Villages. As in small straw and stone homes. On Ryloth, one of the more popular planets I believe. Are you serious suggesting that in 20 years, the Rebels had a fighter capable of hundreds of megatons of firepower when the fucking forerunners of their class had sub kt weapons?

No seriously, do you realize how much of a fucking retard you sound like right now? And Borg ships? They took gigatons of firepower from the Enterprise D's defelctor dish.

Why? becuase the SW usniverse has matured and completely reliable technologies.

Yes, like the ever popular joke of hyperspace engines failing. Or sensors that can't detect a multi-meter long ship on the back of your fucking bridge. Or armor that cracks when someone throws rocks at you. Or cheap ass droids that are so horribly incompetent even they know how much they suck.

SW shields do not operate on frequencies. They are never flickering like ST shields are.

Bullshit. They can see through their shields. They can fire through their shields. Without a frequency, they would require to lower the area shielded around their ship and that still doesn't solve the issue that we don't see the shield surrounding them at all times. And in fact, we do see shield flashes in Clone Wars.

They took a few hits before the ship started taking actual damage from the CIS frigates.

SW vessels are heavily armored and even more heavily armed. SW capital vessels are built for war.

Which is why small Clone War walkers hiding on asteroids can blast right through them, right?

As for SW taking ST technology, they don't need to, their own is vastly superior.

...What?

Dude, the SW clone needs a gun to kill you and has an accuracy on par with a monkey with both eyes put out.

Transporters are socially unacceptable as they basically kill a person and make a copy of them in a distant location.

Trek fan? Bullshit. Transporters do nothing of the sort. In fact, we've seen that in one episode staring Barcley, that the subject remains conscious throughout the entire process.

It might be picked up after the war as a way of moving frieght, but never living beings.

Yes, because the church of Wong has declared that transporters kill people, despite the fact that it clearly doesn't from what the show has given us (as in fact, there were multiple people still alive stuck within the transporter buffer in that same damn episode) and requires a metaphysical argument that we cannot answer.

For example, if I cut off my arm and it's reattached through the miracle of science, does that mean that my arm is now souless? You see, we have no idea how long the body must be destroyed or dissasembled before the spirit is gone. In fact, what of a person that is technically dead for a few seconds, but brought back? We can do that with modern science. By your logic, those few second robed them of their soul. Yet we don't as a society consider them to be down a soul...why not?

In short, your claim is nothing more than covering for the fact that SW never developed transporters to a larger degree and only then within the most obscure EU.

Hell, SW even has replicators thought they are only used in construction and truly mass production. Why? Becuase in the SW universe they believe in a robust trade economy. Something that the common replicator seems to repress.

No it doesn't. The Federation had a thousand colony worlds in the 23rd century and are suggested to have expanded a great deal in the 24th century. In fact, we know that the UFP can produce a great deal of ships.

In fact, looking at the Equinox and the Voyager, we see that the first was released in early 2370, while Voyager was released in early 2371. Equinox's registry number is 72381 while Voyager's is 74656. That means that the UFP built 2,275 starships in one year. In fact, most of the ships built in 2370 would be before the threat of the Dominion became clear and tension didn't really build till later in 2371.

Even during the war--a war in which the UFP had lost considerable ship yards, they pushed out at least 703 ships between 2372 and late 2373. And between the Prometheus (late 2373 ship with 74913) USS Sao Paulo with the registry of 75633 (late 2375), giving us about 720 starships.

This matches up with what Dax and Sisko were discussing after they'd retaken DS9 of how they were still rebuilding their ship yards while the Dominion's was running at full capacity. Given what we saw to be full capacity being about 2,000+ ships (admittedly, a few were runabouts, but their numbers are actually fairly low, suggesting that they were a limited series introduced late TNG and before the Dominion threat).

In fact, taking a look at the UFP, we can see that their numbers are increasing in production. Looking at the Ambassador class, that was already long in service in 2344 (meaning they were likely at least four years old by then) have a registry of 26510 against the USS Excelsiors 2000, showing that the UFP had an average ship production of nearly 400 ships per year (although it was probably a steady increase as the years go by).

So your argument is bollox. Especially when the Clone Wars shows us that they have about 3 Venators to every Jedi warrior. At best, that's about 30,000 starships. Even doubling that number just puts them at even odds with the UFP in terms of numbers and leaves them outnumbered 3 to 1 when the Romulans and the Klingons are taken into account.

Now, considering that a ISD can with one of it sixty Turbolasers completely destroy several GCS if they were in a row, I doubt a Borg cube is any threat to such a vessel.

Oh please.

The Avenger, an NX class starship, is armed with 50 MT weapons and we've seen that Klingons and Vulcan ships are superior to NX ships. We saw the old TOS Defiant take out four of those ships with a quick barrage. We saw that even the updated TOS version of that ship was next to nothing compared to a 24th century mining ship, showing that even at best, the argument of 50 MT is laughable when a mining ship can rape them with ease.

The Enterprise E probably dishes out at least 200 MTs with her photons--her quantums probably dish out if the idea that they're stronger is any indication. In fact, if you look at the TMs, which suggest 25 isoton torpedoes dish out 50 MTs and the fact that Voyager uses 200 isoton torpedoes...well, that gives them about 400 megatons, which falls right in place with what they should have.

Now look at an ISD; showing just the firepower required to blow apart a small asteroid at the yield of about 5 MT at most, with a Venator showing about 10 MT at best for its HTLs.

A Borg sphere would rape Voyager six ways to sunday and you think a cube is going to have a problem with a fucking ISD?

Capturing TIE fighters is a possibility, but those vessels lack shields, are thinly armored and possess the simplest of weapons of SW universe.

Why anyone would want to capture those pieces of crap is beyond me given that they can't even slow down an asteroid when they impact against them. Or show any substantial damage to an asteroid when firing.

Still thanks to their nuetronium impregnated hull they are immune to transporters.

Based on evidence that you haven't yet proven.

And of course, those neutronium hulls aren't exactly made of real neutronium considering that Han found one on a moon and the stuff hadn't decayed nor had he been crushed to the height of a piece of paper.

The only reason they work so well is that they are so numerous. Vessels with shields have shields on par or superior to a GCS, and yes that means A-wings and bigger.

*FAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAPFAP*

That's pretty much your argument. How about you back your shit up? Because I've seen those fighter engage each other in atmosphere during the Ryloth episodes and there were zero nuclear explosions.

These shields as described before do not modulate, meaning no weakness for the borg to exploit.

You do realize that the Borg don't need frequencies to adapt, right? That's just the first trick to bypass shields. We've seen them adapt to future ablative armor in no more than a few hours.

So how can they capture them? Simple they can't.

Or more likely, they're rackety pieces of shit that wouldn't impress Archer let alone Captain Sisko.

Yes, taking many, many hours. And provided the plaent does not have shielding. I don't dispute it coul be done, but the efficiency just sucks.

Bullshit. First off, the Defiant doesn't need to kill everything down to the crust--you can do that with 400 megaton weapons just fine. Only a drooling moron would suggest that you burn the planet down the the mantle unless you actually had a reason.

Of course, the fact that 20 ST ships could do it in about an hour really says something...I do believe that beats out the ISD ICS wank claim of 24 hours as one of those ships could do it in 20 hours.

No, I don;t have a problem, but hey go on continue with the ad hominem

That's probably because you make claims, but don't support them and then you keep going back to those claims a few pages after you've been beaten senseless by others.

Untrue. In Scorpian the Borg gained nothing. In first Contact they gained nothing new. In I, Borg they gained a schism in their collective. The borg have lost much more than they have gained in every conflict with the federation.

Not really. The only real blow that was ever dealt to them was Janeway destroying the transwarp hub--one that the Seven didn't even know about, suggesting it was built in about four years.

Hell, we know that they haven't had transwarp for more than about 12 years now, so that really puts a dampen in your argument, doesn't it?

Actually every time someone has messed with the shields it has been becuase of frequency or temporal distortion. Something SW ships are designed and built to counter. There is massive temporal distortion in Hyperspace and only the most groslly misplotted course ever has a negative effect on the vessel.

No they aren't you fucking liar. They just simply don't encounter those problems because those problems don't exist in their realm. No one worries about frequencies because most sensors aren't advanced enough to square down the enemie's frequency and their computers are clearly too inefficient to be capable of keeping up with it.

No, I said it would take a lot of time for the Borg to assimiliate anything.

Ignoring the fact that a few nanoprobes were able to easily assimilate 29th century technology and build a full grown drone in a few days? Or how in fact, Borg technology is vastly superior in about every way?

Using something against canon is a no-no. You don;t see us going that the Emperor-Luke and Vader working together to summon a massive force storm and wipe out the galaxy, bc it would be against how Vader and Luke would act.

Probably because Vader and Luke can't do it in G canon so any argument following that would fall flatter than Han had if he was really near true neutronium.

I don;t make the rules, Gene did. Canon is the shows and movies. Technically if we go by what he said it isn;t Star Trek untill he says it is. But he laid down the stories and behaviors and thus you cannot work counter to them without letting us work counter to ours.

Too bad that 1) Gene said that others would come along after him and change Star Trek and he accepted that and 2) that Paramount owns Star Trek and they consider all the live action episodes and movies to be Star Trek.

This is what you don't get the Empire is run by HUMANITY so as far as Q would be concerned HUMANITY would survive and thrive no matter what. The Q care not on wit about the Federation or the Empire. Either side winning means HUMANITY thrives. In fact if the Empire wins it just mean HUMANITY would have a better chance at becomeing that next big race as the Empire could easily crush any other Galatic power in the Milky Way.

You twit, if anything Q would be against the Empire because they are exactly what he accused the UFP of being guilty of in the past. He'd be more likely to put them on trial and chances are, they'd fail horribly due to a mixture of their own stupidity and their evil brutal tyrant methods.

Q only cares about ST humanity because they show the promise of high moral standards. Seriously, put the Empire in the shoes of Picard at Farpoint Station. Their response would have been to shoot immediately upon the discover of the hostile entity and then ask questions later.

Actually considering the limited firepower of even Quantom torpedoes, even with a full compliment the Definat would take hours to destroy all civilization on an Earth sized world. A smaller would like the Founder Homeworld would take less time, but we are still talking hours even if you decide to create a massive FAE bomb with the replicators.

Um, the Founder's homeworld is Class M--ie, Earth size.

And how it would take many hours is beyond me given that Garak's plan was to use it to destroy all life on the Founder's planet before the swarm of Jem'Hadar ships all around him blasted the Defiant apart.

As far as I've checked on Memory Alpha and my limited memory of ST, there has been overall three references to hyperspace and hyperdrives in the shows. If hyperspace is so easy to enter and use in the Wars universe, why is it that most advanced Trek species don't use it?

Because hyperspace doesn't exist in Star Trek, that's why.

[

so what if the main gun is only practical vs starbases/planets.
destroying every shipyard and primary planets would make them shiver and beg for mercy. and then we welcome them to the New and improved Empire lmao

Or more likely, once you take out a station, the rest of the fleet would concentrate all firepower upon it and if it fired upon a planet, you'd pretty much give Section 31 to start looking into their genocidal virus files. Hell, even the virus the UFP got from the Founders would be more than enough to cripple the entire Empire if the UFP was able to somehow delay the infection long enough for it to spread to other planets.

while hundreds of tiny and not so tiny vessels keep your "highly agile" vessels busy a few eclipse stardestroyers would be hyperjumping all over the place destroying everything sacred to the feds. leaving them no other option then surrender.

Yeah, which is why the Empire has hundreds of these ships--oh wait no they don't. In fact, given again the low amount of firepower each of their weapons put out, a single torpedo would have more than enough itensity to blast through the Eclipse's shields fairly easily.

who said that Q are omipotent and omnipresent ???? oh yeah i forgot Q himself

yeah wright and god created the sun, earth, water and life in zeven days lmao

the only prove Q has are his words. and a few "pretty awesome" powers. but nothing that can't be replicated by machines.

So what if Q said that? Prove that Q's power is technology based. Because it's been already stated in the series that the Q are energy based beings.

[Nexarc]

Because hyperspace doesn't exist in Star Trek, that's why.

I knew that the SW type hyperspace doesn't exist in Star Trek, I should have been asking why are we being generous and allow hyperdrives to work in the milky way galaxy anyway.
If trekkies were to be more agressive, we could just take away Star Wars "trump-cards" such as hyperdrives and the Force because they don't work in the Milky Way.

[Hellblade8]

Q's are not imortal they can be killed as easily as humans. but you need Q weapons.

Yeah, the Q weapons that cause supernovas.

And they only kill a Q if they hit them in a lethal part of the body. I do believe Q was hit in the leg and lived. So yeah, it takes a weapon capable of causing a star to go nova to potentially kill a Q.

Good luck with that.

yet if Voyager had hyperspace she would be home in a day. not decades.

If Voyager was running at maximum capacity and had proper navigational information, they'd have been home in about 4 months.

I thoughed the feds where all about exploring. what better way then to be at the other side of your galaxie in a day.

Despite the fact that they wouldn't be able to pick up any information along the way? There's a reason why they don't go to max warp and finish exploring the galaxy; it doesn't work that way. It takes the better part of a day to scan about 10 LY.

but the quantum slipstream look pretty cool though

And hopefully, we'll see it soon.

why use turbo lasers ??? . their trajectory can be calculated. give them the feeling the're always hunted so that will keep them occupied while you start destroying the homeworlds.

Not really. We see that even at point blank range, three Venators missed the slow moving bridge of the Malevolence all but two times, despite a full out barrage at maximum firepower.

this one of the ridiculous things in st there is, being able to be killed in the holodeck.

Actually, because they're backed up by shaped force fields, they're just as deadly, if not more so than a regular weapon.

the ds1 is 120km and the ds2 160km
ds1 recharge superlaser = 1 hour
ds2 recharge 2minutes the exhaust vest was replaced by millimeterwide heat dispersion ducts;

ds1 15000 tl's and 700 tractorbeams (able to even trap a ssd) 7000tie's
ds2 35000 tl's 1000 tractorbeams and if finished 12000tie's

All of which are useless against ST ships. Furthermore, recharging that weapon for an hour is more proof that the DS is just more like a massive battery that requires the station to generate enough stored energy for a focused attack. This isn't even mentioning the fact that most of the mass of the planet target is shunted into hyperspace with minimal energy actually being DET, as explained in the Death Star Novel. In fact, the superlaser itself is only capable of roasting a continent.

euh Star Trek is as gay as you can get
of course St has more accepted science.

Oh that's a good argument.

so your telling me that a race that can build spaceships and explore space, meet aliens, fight far more advanced foos can't build a machine that mimics a persons voice? sure even data can't do it ? or georgi ? or wesley ?

They can. However, as we saw in TOS, their ships can detect fakes that would seem to be perfect to our ears. Wesley and Data somehow build devices that surpassed this.

Regarding the Asteroid scenes in Empire Strikes Back.

The Hoth Asteroid Swarm is unlike any other asteroid belt we would know of. The swarm in question is from the collision of two earth sized bodies. These bodies were completely solid, instead of the molten core we have. The collision was also so violent as to shatter both bodies. It was also fair recent in stellar terms only a thousand years old at most. This collison was just outside the hoth system and thanks to it's youth very unstable with many, many moving objects in the swarm. The asteroid in question were also composed of many heavy metal ores making scanning a problem as scans were either absorbed or refracted by the asteroids themselves. This is completely unlike our asteroid belt or any Swarm seen in ST. In the former the density is so low as you could stand on one asteroid and not be able to see the next closest one with the naked eye. In the later the asteroid swarms in St are very, very stable with little to no internal movement.

Oh that's rich. First off, that's bullshit because the majority of a planet isn't going to be made of ultra dense rock. In fact, depending on the planet, it could be less so.

Of course, if you want to talk about planetary destruction, we can note that in an early TNG episode, the Enterprise D was casually roaming through an asteroid field without any concerns, without combat shields on, and Data even remarked that the level of desistation to the planet was amazing given the primitive weapons of the races at the time.

Yes, they were in the remains of a devistated planet without shields, took no damage, and remarked that the weapons used to cause the destruction were primitive and ancient.

Now ISD were actively clearing paths as quickly as their weapons could cycle and as gunners could acquire targets. In such a swarm even a hundred gunners with the rapidest of weapons are going to miss a few fast moving objects. Still as in the scene of the asteroid impacting the Bridge tower. Since that was the Avenger, which lost it Holonet transmitter thanks to the impact, and we later see the Avenger chasing down the Millenium Falcon with minimal damage, it is safe to assume that the asteroid Impact did not destroy the ship.

Which is why we saw hundreds of turbolasers illuminating the vaccum of space and millions of balls of fire as they vaporized--no wait, that never happened. They didn't fire no more than a half a dozen shots in what we saw and some of those were direct at the Falcon.

Bullshit much?

As for technological advancement. ST is only 400 years more advanced than current day technologies and in a few areas is actuall behind current technology.

No, ST is 400 years more advanced in their universe. That's why you see some issues between what they have and what we have in some cases. And as to where we're more advanced then they are--please show me. The best I can think of are Ipods and similar toy-like devices that the UFP probably never focused on.

SW is set rougly 6 billion years ago and they have had Hyperdrive for 25,000 years. They have had the fastest form of FTL for longer than we've had recorded history.

Yeah, and that's their only technological advantage over ST and we know that by the 25th century, the UFP has expanded into the Delta Quadrant, so give it about a century before the UFP has FTL that rivals or surpasses theirs.

They have had artificial intellignce mimicking human behaviour for millenia.

And? The computer core of the Enterprise D can hold about 6 billion minds and personas. Hell, their ability to store the entire map of a human body in a simple transporter system is equal to you taking the most advanced home computer model and stacking multiple pieces of them all the way to the center of the Milky Way. Not only that, but they can hold six on just one transporter system and they have multiple transporter rooms.

And this is ignoring the holodeck, the Daystrom computer, and the EMH.

They have energy weapons so powerful that they have recoil and stopping power.

What? So what?

A blaster can knock a man down as surely as a Shutgun blast, but we know they fire a massless particle that should not be able to do that.

And a phaser on setting 7 of 16 can turn a man to a charred husk, so what?

They have perfect antigravity and gravity generation.

So does the UFP.

They have developed shields that you can fire out of, but not into.

Yeah, it's called having a modulated shield grid. The UFP has that too.

They have devoloped a bacteria that can heal almost any wound in a matter of hours.

Since when? It took hours to heal severe frostbite and they had to fucking replace the kid's arm when he lost it to a lightsaber. Hell, if they had ST sensors they could have located him within seconds and if they had transporters, they could have spared him the whole process.

How is this not light years ahead of ST?

Because it's not. Most the droids have IQs that rival most retarded chimps, the FTL is horribly flawed despite its speed (nebulas require massive detours for starships, let alone something as massive as the Death Star), and their magic fluid has limitations.

hell the only thing that ST has that SW doesn't is Transporters. After all lifesupport on ships is nothng more than a specilized replicator.

What? Those oh so insignificant transporters are capable of containing more information than the entire internet you twit. And life support a special replicator? Do you know what life support includes?

Finally is ST you hear about only a few independant operators. Very few ships are not owned by a government and none of those were legally armed. Meanwhile even under the Empire even simple freighters were allowed heavy artillery in case of pirate attack. And there were countless owner/captain of non military vessels. Hell some even owned decommissioned military vessels that were lightly rearmed but still had military shielding.

Bullshit. First off, there are plenty of fregters in ST, Sisko in fact, married a freigther captain. We also know that there are tons of freighters from other powers that use UFP space, as this was a plot point because one race was using a special alloy to prevent UFP ships from scanning it.

The fact is though, most people don't use shuttles and if they do, they use free UFP shuttls that take you wherever you need to go. Only really deciated people or absurdly wealthy individuals own shuttls or freighters.

But once again, you're full of shit.

Char here's canon for you.

Heavy Turbolaser 200 gigatons of firepower or roughly 800 billion gigawats

Outpout of the Federation Galaxy class Starship Warp Core = 12 billion gigawats

Do you see a difference?

No, because you keep spouting out the same shit. ICS has been overridden by G and T canon so many times it's not even funny anymore. You turbolasers don't exceed 20 MT at best and at worst they're much lower. The UFP at worst has 100+ MT weapons and best have about 400 MT torpedoes.

Okay if all parties are part of this there are super beings to face the Q name Yuuzhan vong worldships, Ang-Tii monks, and if it comes down to it Luke or Jacen (both have done more impressive things that Q has). Species 8472 would find their match met in the Vong, who could easily kill off the species with any number of parasites or diseases.

A single Q can alter time, cause supernovas, mind rape people, and alter the constant of the universe. How the fuck does any Jedi stack up to that, let alone an entire race of them?

And seriously, the Yuuzhan Vong aren't much better than the Empire and New Republic, suggesting they're low MTs. The bioships of 8472 rape Borg ships; they toss out high level GT firepower you dipshit.

Star Wars wins becuase it is the technologically and metephysically superior universe. There is no comparison between the two. Yes ST has a sleeker look, but SW has far superior technology, far superior mystic arts, far superior super beings. and far superior story lines. I love trek but in this conflict it loses. But honestly it's just becuase it is war.

Metaphysical?

Are you kidding me? the only close metaphysical weapon or device they have are related to their lightsabers and we know those are based on bacteria in Jedi blood, so get off your little step stool.

Hell, the very fact that you claim that everyday technology is metaphysical in any way is downright retarded and shows you have no fucking clue as to what the fuck you're talking about.

Thus far, you've made claim after claim and proven nothing. Nothing at all. You just keep reading the same line out of your little children's book like a defective record.

It's even worse when you go to the story lines. True, it does rely on personal viewpoint, but removing that--Star Wars is fucking shallow. Just because you insert a religious order and try to act all mysterious doesn't make it deep. Case in point, nut job religious leaders who try to push the idea that all you need to go to heaven is to believe in Jesus and not be a bastard (or gay, depending on the group).

However, anyone with any sort of understanding of Christianity would know that this is a very shallow understanding of Christianity as the point of Christianity isn't to scare you into behaving, but teaching you that to do good things is what you're supposed to do--because that's the right thing to do.

Star Trek has shown deep metaphysical understanding that Wars has never, in any of the movies or episodes shown. Even the original storyline was a stolen story centuries old that Lucas rehashed and then raped.

Seriously, the story of Star Wars is about a self-absorbed genocidal brat who betrayed his wife, his order, and the people he swore to protect because he was afraid that his wife would die. And said twit was so stupid as to nearly kill her himself because for some reason, he believed that she betrayed him when it was painfully obvious that Obi-Wan snuck aboard and would be the first conclusion that anyone with a rational, working brain.

Now compare this to the best of Star Trek. Tapestry is about a story of how Picard is embarressed about some of his less than admirable past and wants to change himself to make himself a better person--only to discover that he becomes someone he can't stand. And he learns that in the end, that those dark, shameful moments of our past make us the better person that we are today. That without those mistakes, we would not have learned that they were mistakes.

Or how about Dance in the Palemoonlight? Where Sisko is grieving over his choice to violate the principals that he holds most dear in order to perform the greater good and save hundreds of billions of lives by sacrificing the lives of a theif and a senator.

Or how about Undiscovered Country, where Captain Kirk has to face his own prejudice in order to uncover a deep seated hatred on both sides of the Klingons and the UFP in order to stop an interstellar war and save the billions of Klingons--people that he hates.

Or how about Inner Light? The story of how Picard is lost on a strange world far away from the Federation, growing old with a family he loves dearly, only to discover all those years was a simple illusion that lasted no more than a few hours--and must come to terms with that?

Or how about True Q, where Q...a being previously immortal and all powerful, was reduced to a mortal form and was willing to sacrifice his life in order to save the Enterprise?

Or how about the City on the Edge of Forever, where Kirk is force to let a women he loves die so that history can be properly restored?

Face it, compared to some of the best of Star Trek, Star Wars is as shallow as a drop of water sizziling on cement in the open sum during June.

so what if the bridge was gone. you assume that the asteroid hitting the isd is the only one. Myself I assume that a 1,6km vessel flying for hours through a asteroidfield so dence a 30m vessel has to make some awesome moves to avoid being hit wil be hit countless times.

Yeah, great auto-defenses there.

that's infact a very simple answer : Because Vador doesn't give the order to do so. And we know they wouldn't even dream of disobaying Vador. And Vador doesn't give a rats ass on how many ship the fleet looses.

Which makes Vader a demented twit who isn't fit for command and would have been court martialed in any society that wasn't tilted to suit him.

First of all when you have a ship with shields and armor as powerful as a Star Destroyers, evasdive maneuvers is only for when trying to avoid collision with other ISDs. Like modern battleships battles are determined by who can bring the most guns to bear, not by who can dodge the most shots. Not to mention that a 1.6 km craft is going to be easy to hit even while trying to make maneuvers. So why waste the power you could be putting power into maneuvers instead shields or damage control?

Please, they don't have the capability to perform those manuvers at all.

SG works by guerrila warfare. The first rule is using your own weaknesses as strengths.

You do realize that the only reasons that they were of any danger was because the System Lords were weakened due to infighting and that the Asgard came to their rescue.

We are small, but that means were agile, your not, it means we can hit wherever we like and you cant.

Yes, because the ST universe has exactly 0 stargate systems, so they'll arrive in--the three ships they have and be immediately overwhelmed by superior numbers.

Anyways, we do have starships incase you forgot, and many of them are incredibly powerful, look at atlantis, its the size of A CITY.

You mean the city that's often located planet side where nuclear weapons are thousands of times more effective? You do understand how utterly fucked Atlantis would be if 40 UFP ships all opened fire on it all at once, don't you?

Seriously how would you beat us? You dont even know which planets have stargates and which dont, and considering how much you hate inflicting unnessecary casualties you wont blow any of them up because doing so blows it up destroyign a significant chunk of the planet and any population away.

Yes, because those stargats are all so important when both galaxies look just about exactly the same and sensors would easily pinpoint you as being human, suggesting that you're located on alternative Earth, of which the UFP, Romulans, Breen, Klingons, Dominion, Gorn, Cardassians, Borg, and multiple other races have the coordinates too.

And you cant use transports as an en masse weapon because YOU HAVE NEVER DONE SO BEFORE, if you could, than why dont you?

Probably wouldn't need to, given how silly it would be.

Actually the engagement with Grievous' battleship coming under fire was going for HOURS before Kenobi and Skywalker arrived from the Outer Rim to perform their heroic deeds. The Invisible Hand's shields were carefully blasted away and no other ship attacked untill the point in the plan where a cruiser was supposed to Broadside the vessel to provide a distraction.

I highly doubt that given that Venators fall quickly under concentrated fire.

Actually, The Avenger easily survived the asteroid hit in ESB. As we see later it was chasing the Millenium Falcon it ridge tower intact though with some sensor damage, evident by it losing the Flacon. As for the the fire retardent it's not water but a foam. Probably sprayed using repulsor tecnology

Actually no, because the novel suggested it was destroyed.

Unlike ST vessels SW vessels are built to survive multiple escape and reentry into dnese atmosperes and heavy gravity wells. These vessels are designed to not only support their weight but be able to withstand weaponry far superior to anything we have witnessed on Earth. Even a vessel as damaged as the Invisible hand was pretty much guaranteed to impact the ground more or less whole.

Which is why weapons equal to modern tanks can puncture their hulls like hot knives through butter.

[Hellblade8]

I knew that the SW type hyperspace doesn't exist in Star Trek, I should have been asking why are we being generous and allow hyperdrives to work in the milky way galaxy anyway.
If trekkies were to be more agressive, we could just take away Star Wars "trump-cards" such as hyperdrives and the Force because they don't work in the Milky Way.

Because then there's no reason to assume that Warp would work in SW space. Playing that trick is a rather low and dirty method. Certainly they'd be under the problem of maping routes to take them to critical areas of the UFP, but that's the same issue presented to the UFP.

So yeah, but no.

[Nexarc]

Because then there's no reason to assume that Warp would work in SW space. Playing that trick is a rather low and dirty method. Certainly they'd be under the problem of maping routes to take them to critical areas of the UFP, but that's the same issue presented to the UFP.

So yeah, but no.

Just presenting a point. In nearly every STvsSW debate, Warsies keep trying (and failing) to limit Trek to a small reference pool. I am just saying that doing so is stupid because then it would allow Trekkies to do the same thing, and just create more hypocricy as SW fans complaining that ST fans can't do so while they themselves can.

[fedr808]

Hell blade, no offense, but please shorten your messages, honestly i am not willing to spend so much time reading a single message.

[alpinedigital]

Hell blade, no offense, but please shorten your messages, honestly i am not willing to spend so much time reading a single message.

I just finished reading it myself. It took me three sessions to do it but so what? Really - you and Kittamaru probably had at least a full page of off-topic shit, and continued even after I pointed out it was off topic so I think we shouldn't try to draw the line on post size of stuff that IS on topic.

VERY good post, BTW Hellblade8. Very good to see the well-informed mind at work. I do have one disagreement about your stating that cubes could rape Voyager. Unless you mean the pre-'EndGame' ass-kicking 'BRING IT!' version of Voyager. LOL Damn they had that baby NICE...

Borg vs Voyager? Captain Janeway, Seven, and Icheb, and Synaptic Interfaced Admiral Janeway, FTW. lol

[Kittamaru]

I just finished reading it myself. It took me three sessions to do it but so what? Really - you and Kittamaru probably had at least a full page of off-topic shit, and continued even after I pointed out it was off topic so I think we shouldn't try to draw the line on post size of stuff that IS on topic.

VERY good post, BTW Hellblade8. Very good to see the well-informed mind at work. I do have one disagreement about your stating that cubes could rape Voyager. Unless you mean the pre-'EndGame' ass-kicking 'BRING IT!' version of Voyager. LOL Damn they had that baby NICE...

Borg vs Voyager? Captain Janeway, Seven, and Icheb, and Synaptic Interfaced Admiral Janeway, FTW. lol

Screw Voyager... I'd rip those Ablative Armor generators off of her and fit them to the Big-E, as well as a MetaPhasic Shield Generator, and a few TransPhasic Torpedoes

[Kittamaru]

Also, remember PLEASE - Star Trek focuses more on STARFLEET, the MILITARY branch of the UFP. Of COURSE there aren't many federation Civilian craft shown or mentioned... the show has NOTHING to do with them! It'd be like having Sailor Moon pop up in the middle of Star Wars: Return of the Jedi - just WTF is she doing there?

[fedr808]

I just finished reading it myself. It took me three sessions to do it but so what? Really - you and Kittamaru probably had at least a full page of off-topic shit, and continued even after I pointed out it was off topic so I think we shouldn't try to draw the line on post size of stuff that IS on topic.

VERY good post, BTW Hellblade8. Very good to see the well-informed mind at work. I do have one disagreement about your stating that cubes could rape Voyager. Unless you mean the pre-'EndGame' ass-kicking 'BRING IT!' version of Voyager. LOL Damn they had that baby NICE...

Borg vs Voyager? Captain Janeway, Seven, and Icheb, and Synaptic Interfaced Admiral Janeway, FTW. lol

im not argueing how good the arguement was, it was jsut too long.

[Nexarc]

Screw Voyager... I'd rip those Ablative Armor generators off of her and fit them to the Big-E, as well as a MetaPhasic Shield Generator, and a few TransPhasic Torpedoes

Let's add Janeway's temporal rift device and Defiant's cloak. Hell, we can even throw a sombrero on top like the guys at Trek BBS are doing.

Also, remember PLEASE - Star Trek focuses more on STARFLEET, the MILITARY branch of the UFP. Of COURSE there aren't many federation Civilian craft shown or mentioned... the show has NOTHING to do with them! It'd be like having Sailor Moon pop up in the middle of Star Wars: Return of the Jedi - just WTF is she doing there?

Lost and being a clumsy fool like Jar Jar. At least she is appeals to fans.