Star Wars vs Star Trek

[Enterprise-D]

don't forget that the lasers in SW have a stun mode to. Canon because Vader said it.

When did Vader say that?

[Enterprise-D]

Well for starters why would we need any more? what would we do with a missile that can hit mars?

Well, a set of long range torpedoes would mean that the attacking ship need not get shredded by a planetary defense system.

Or stopped on the way to the target.

Or get caught in the blast radius by accident.

[fedr808]

Well, a set of long range torpedoes would mean that the attacking ship need not get shredded by a planetary defense system.

Or stopped on the way to the target.

Or get caught in the blast radius by accident.

oh yeah because really have evil ships orbiting our planet right now so we need to build missiles that can fire that high.

Boy if that isnt the biggest waste of money ive ever heard.

[Enterprise-D]

oh yeah because really have evil ships orbiting our planet right now so we need to build missiles that can fire that high.

Boy if that isnt the biggest waste of money ive ever heard.

What?

We were talking about having long range weapons on board a warship. Long range weapons on a warship in any scifi title makes sense for the reasons I mentioned, as well as others I'm sure I've left out...

I never said the PLANET needed long range torpedoes (although, it's not a bad idea!).

[Char]

Hey i'm new to this but I think Star Trek is much stronger for a number of reason, the star wars ships really rely on non-canon for most of its good thing and also Q no one can defeat Q from the star wars universe

[Char]

That proves nothing actually. Unless you show me a much lesser weapon vaporizing the Falcon. All it does prove is that SW shields are powerful.



According to script and character double the effective destructive power of the weapon. Since the warhead revolves areound a 1kg antimatter warhead the total was easy to figure out.



Yes, and Enterpise is widely held as noncannon becuase it violates the standard history held by TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY not to mention the movies.

However if we go by character quotes the Photon Torped VII should have a 25 isoton yield.

Also you 5km crater quote is obvious worng as Commander Riker noted it would take the enite compliment of the Enterise D photon torpedoes to blast a way out of there and the Asteroid was at best 10 to 15km in diameter.

how can you say that enterprise is not canon, and this is the person who thinks EU is canon but not enterpirse which i remind you was OFFICIALLY made by paramount the OFFICIAL owners of star trek making it CANON

[Char]

me neither. From the trailers i've seen it looks awesome. but then again if you see the trailer it also screws up the entire ST timeline. weapon's that blow up planets, suits to resist burning decening to earth. the speed that young kirk smashes into that battlethingy in the admosfeer.

i'm curious though to see Sylar/Spock lol.

yeah lol sylar.... iv seen it, it dosn't disrupt the history it compltly rewrites it lets see star wars survive a few drops of red matter one drop made a massive black whole that destroyed a planet, also i think simon pegg was a good scotty

[antaran_1979]

When did Vader say that?

in EpIV, when they capture Lea's ship. he sais something like set your weapons for stun and then when the stormy shots her instead of the standard bolt, a bluish radial wave comes out of the barel and stuns her. it is the only recorded case of stun setting in SW movies. obviously quite different then normal bolts in both apearence and effects, so SW proponents can't quite say that the rest of the bolts are set for stun so to explain why Ewoks show that much blaster resistance

[Kittamaru]

Nope your wrong kitt. That was a weak ass laser fired from a weak ass ship, you could deflect it because the laser was so weak the deflector could easily pump out enough power to push it aside. A battlebarges lasers are powered with an extremely high amount of energy. If you tried that stunt with the deflector, best case scenario, your shields resist a dozen or so shots. But the deflector is useless.

You're not getting it...

Shine a flashlight at a black hole - it won't reflect.

Now, fire a laser pointer at it - again, no return.

Now, fire a 1.24 x 10^99 gigawatt laser as the black hole - again, no return.

Why?

Irregardless of how electrically powerful the laser is, gravity will win. If a gravity field can bend a "weak" laser, it can bend a "strong" laser, because they're both approx the same "weight". Remember, we're dealing with near-zero mass particles here... but not 100% massless, as proven by the fact that powerful gravity fields can bend them.

[Kittamaru]

Bigger is better kitt, when my ship is six times the size of yours, logic states that at the very LEAST my power source has to be six times as powerful. But of course considering that my ships are warships its pretty easy to say that my power generators are atleast a dozen times more powerful than your warp core. Probably more. And if i can pump out 12 times as much power to my weaponry than you, than whom do you think is going to win?

Especially when one of the main weapons before the lascannons are conversion beamers which work pretty much like deflectors except when they arent hitting energy shields, they cause matter to detonate in a massive explosion. Even against shields they are incredibly powerful weapons.

No, it doesn't.

Again, what is more powerful:

a 250,000 square foot oil-powered power plant

OR

a 15,000 square foot nuclear-powered power plant?

What's more powerful? 5 square miles of solar panels

OR

a 1/4 square mile coal burning plant?


Size means NOTHING... get that thru your head and you'll be golden.

Why do you say your ships are "warships"...? What do you think the Nova/Norway/Sabre/Akira/Steamrunner/Defiant/Prometheus/Sovereign class ships are? They're dedicated warships...

[Kittamaru]

Kitt i'm one of those that from in de beginning that i join this treath, stated that it has to be ALL of trek VS ALLof SW because otherwise it would nearly impossible to have a decent discussion.
I never said once Trek can't use Q or future feds.
On the other hand Kitt i do noticed you allways using different standards for both sides.

let me elaberate : When a phaser hits a wall or rock sparks fly around you state that it is because its on low-power.
Yet when lasers in SW hit a wall or rock and sparks fly around you state "look at how useless those lasers are.

don't forget that the lasers in SW have a stun mode to. Canon because Vader said it.

Yes, but in Star Trek there is a plausible reason for the lack of effect of phaser fire vs non-targets... Phasers have an integrated targetting system. Proof of this is that A) it's mentioned in the series and B) you see the "beam" fired at up to a 20* variation from the direction it's pointed. It makes sense it wouldn't discharge a full beam if contact with the target isn't made

And yes... SW Blaster Rifles have a stun feature... we never see anything less than "OMG SHOOT IT" from the shipborn weapons

[Saquist]

in EpIV, when they capture Lea's ship. he sais something like set your weapons for stun and then when the stormy shots her instead of the standard bolt, a bluish radial wave comes out of the barel and stuns her. it is the only recorded case of stun setting in SW movies. obviously quite different then normal bolts in both apearence and effects, so SW proponents can't quite say that the rest of the bolts are set for stun so to explain why Ewoks show that much blaster resistance

That's exactly right but they make the case anyway.

[Char]

Yes, but in Star Trek there is a plausible reason for the lack of effect of phaser fire vs non-targets... Phasers have an integrated targetting system. Proof of this is that A) it's mentioned in the series and B) you see the "beam" fired at up to a 20* variation from the direction it's pointed. It makes sense it wouldn't discharge a full beam if contact with the target isn't made

And yes... SW Blaster Rifles have a stun feature... we never see anything less than "OMG SHOOT IT" from the shipborn weapons

Yeah that's right and also when the blasters are put on stun they fire blue hoop-like instead of red blast so they can't exactly say "ohhh that blaster was on stun"

[TW Scott]

how can you say that enterprise is not canon, and this is the person who thinks EU is canon but not enterpirse which i remind you was OFFICIALLY made by paramount the OFFICIAL owners of star trek making it CANON

Unfortunately the real decider of canon for Star Trek was Roddenberry with and I quote "It's not Star Trek until I say it is."

Also comes the fact that Enterprise by it's very existance violated much of the know TOS, TNG, DS(, and VOY future-history. It's only thing to call something canon, but when your own canon violates itself in such an ugly manner you risk becoming the laughing stock of sci-fi.

[TW Scott]

Hey i'm new to this but I think Star Trek is much stronger for a number of reason, the star wars ships really rely on non-canon for most of its good thing and also Q no one can defeat Q from the star wars universe

Actually the Ang-Ti monks could and would defeat the Q with realtive ease. Q has displayed no power not duplicatable by slight more advance federation technology., the Ang-Ti do similar feats despite being "mortal' There is also some question that Luke might be able to surpass even a Q in ability. He performs feat that not other being in all fo SW even Yoda or the Ang-Ti can duplicate. All becuase he does not believe he has limitations.


Also there is the Point that since if we obey Canon we obey how the different factions and such think and act. Q would be popping some jiffy pop and watching the show with the kid.

[TW Scott]

Really? Why? There's no rule saying that the smaller ship can't be grossly overpowered via an exceedingly efficient system. Warbirds (for example) are powered by artificial singularities for heavens sake! Not many power systems can boast an output like that.

Becuase we know the Power involved thanks to Data in "Q Who?" Even if the engine was running 10% normal (unlikey as the lights indicated about quarter heavy combat speed) were still talking 1200 billion gigawatts or for the uninitiated is 1.2E20 or 2.87x10E9 gigatons equivalent.

Now all this power isused in a variety of ways. Since the Federation is stupide they must devopte a ton of power to life support, replicating fresh oxygen for the crew. (plants would be so much more efficent), heating and lighting the ships, shielding the antimatter, inertial stabilizers, the main deflector, and hosts of other thisng are going to chew through mian power faster than a Ferenghi hoards latnum. You could pour all power to your shields but that might protect you form only a few blasts. Hell in SW it would save you from one but not the other.


As for the D'dreidrex(sp) warbird it actually produces the same amount of power as a GCS, which is way the huge vessel can even reach warp six at all though go no faster

[antaran_1979]

Unfortunately the real decider of canon for Star Trek was Roddenberry with and I quote "It's not Star Trek until I say it is."

Also comes the fact that Enterprise by it's very existance violated much of the know TOS, TNG, DS(, and VOY future-history. It's only thing to call something canon, but when your own canon violates itself in such an ugly manner you risk becoming the laughing stock of sci-fi.

unfortunately for all of us trek canon is formulated by those dudes in Paramount, so we (the fans) just got flushed down the toilet

[antaran_1979]

Becuase we know the Power involved thanks to Data in "Q Who?" Even if the engine was running 10% normal (unlikey as the lights indicated about quarter heavy combat speed) were still talking 1200 billion gigawatts or for the uninitiated is 1.2E20 or 2.87x10E9 gigatons equivalent.

Now all this power isused in a variety of ways. Since the Federation is stupide they must devopte a ton of power to life support, replicating fresh oxygen for the crew. (plants would be so much more efficent), heating and lighting the ships, shielding the antimatter, inertial stabilizers, the main deflector, and hosts of other thisng are going to chew through mian power faster than a Ferenghi hoards latnum. You could pour all power to your shields but that might protect you form only a few blasts. Hell in SW it would save you from one but not the other.


As for the D'dreidrex(sp) warbird it actually produces the same amount of power as a GCS, which is way the huge vessel can even reach warp six at all though go no faster

ugh, feds replicate oxygen? since when? may i know the source of this info?

actually the fact that putting all power to shields does only marginally improve their performance shows that all the minor systems use far less power then the shield system. i'd guess the major power sink for all Fed ships is actually their warp drive.

now the D-Deridex is not limited to warp six, unless you mean while it's cloaked?

[Char]

Actually the Ang-Ti monks could and would defeat the Q with realtive ease. Q has displayed no power not duplicatable by slight more advance federation technology., the Ang-Ti do similar feats despite being "mortal' There is also some question that Luke might be able to surpass even a Q in ability. He performs feat that not other being in all fo SW even Yoda or the Ang-Ti can duplicate. All becuase he does not believe he has limitations.


Also there is the Point that since if we obey Canon we obey how the different factions and such think and act. Q would be popping some jiffy pop and watching the show with the kid.

Actually the forums called STAR TREK VS STAR WARS not what TW wants from star trek vs what he wants from star wars oh and here is a quote from wikipedia "Q's power is limited only in that he can not overcome others in the Q Continuum, the peer group to which he belongs. Otherwise, he can do more or less whatever he wants," I can't give you the link because i need to post 20 posts before im allowed but all you need to do is type q from star trek into google

[Enterprise-D]

now the D-Deridex is not limited to warp six, unless you mean while it's cloaked?

Confirmed, the D'Deridex has a safe top speed of Warp 9. Warp 6 is a cloak imposed limitation.