View Poll Results: Which universe would win?

Voters
670. This poll is closed
  • Star Trek

    227 33.88%
  • Star Wars

    285 42.54%
  • Spaceballs

    51 7.61%
  • Farscape

    14 2.09%
  • Dune

    54 8.06%
  • Stargate

    39 5.82%

Thread: Star Wars vs Star Trek

  1. #15561
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    1.See, my problem with this is how would the Empire know where to hit... we know they have issues with long-range scans in hyperspace... the Defiant coming out of HyperSpace into the asteroid field where the planet Alderraan should have been... something even a basic scan should have told Han. The UFP and her allies would have the homefield advantage, and as the Empire currently doesn't have a DS3... I don't think they could simply pop in and BDZ a planet before defenses take a large chunk out of their forces... especially as they wouldn't know WHERE to sneak attack.

    2.But that depends - are we assuming that a race in Trek would betray the others (like the Ferengi)? Because if so, then the Empire has bigger problems to deal with and likely would never get to the Trek universe at all...

    *shrugs*

    3.I still think Utopia Staryards and Fed HQ would prove an uncrackable target for the Empire, if only by the virtue of armed stations therein. The only reason the Borg Cube waltzed in the way it did was because the Borg had adapated to the current generation Federation weapons... and as we know, once they adapt, no matter how much firepower you pour into it, it's pretty much moot point.
    1+2. this would always be a point of contest, but there are ways to provide inteligence and most civilina data is not classified by Fed standards. so locations of many home worlds would be easy to come by and probe droids would confirm the military presence or lack of it.

    3. as i said, major military instalations are no tlikely to be taken out on a whim, but i would not label them uncrackable, given enough determination even the largest Star Bases (like the 74) could be overwealmed, even when backed up by deffence platforms and ocasional patrol or stationed ships. still, large ammount of ships would be required.

  2. #15562
    Quote Originally Posted by antaran_1979 View Post
    i have to agree with FEDR on this one, we analyse the universes as they are. now if we presume the conflict would last for several years in a state of status quo, then yes, maybe the feds would adapt quantum slipstream or transwarp into service but, by my guess the feds won't last that long, especially in the case of sneak attack. i'd guess the Empire would use an x number of ships to perform quick raids on major population and political centers to cause the civilian goverments to sue for peace. maybe even attempt similar raids on military and ship production facilities, but these would most likely end in heavy casulties on both sides. this tactic would cause the official Fed goverment to capitulate, but seeing throughout TNG and DS9 the military wing would most likely continue with active resistance. this how ever is considered guerrilla warfare. it maybe even possible for Starfleet to form a defence bubble around a small sphere of star systems few dosen light years across and hold it indefinitly or untill the empire desides to sacrifice a really large part of their fleet to subdue it. in the long run the empire is going to colapse from internal strugle, but the political entity known as UFP would be defeated.
    I will be honest, the empire is ANYTHING but subtle and stealthy. They are the lumbering giant. And a quick and agile foe can easily cripple them. They do not know the first thing about strategy and tactics just throw everything we have and hope we wont lose.

    thats why I think wh40k would win because the space marines are incredibly effective in surprise attacks, raids, and massive battles. This is what they were engineered to do.

  3. #15563
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Heh... I wouldn't exactly call a space marine stealthy... maybe their stealth-suits... but those provide rather... minimal... armor protection.

  4. #15564
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Heh... I wouldn't exactly call a space marine stealthy... maybe their stealth-suits... but those provide rather... minimal... armor protection.
    Yah sure the suits arent camoflauged. But they now tactics and strategies and are the masters of both. they know when to hide, and when to strike. Each chapter is only 1000 strong, if you are guarding a few billion people against the worst of all terrors, you have to fight smart and strong. And this is what space marines were engineered to do.

  5. #15565
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fedr808 View Post
    Yah sure the suits arent camoflauged. But they now tactics and strategies and are the masters of both. they know when to hide, and when to strike. Each chapter is only 1000 strong, if you are guarding a few billion people against the worst of all terrors, you have to fight smart and strong. And this is what space marines were engineered to do.
    Eh, maybe I'm just weird - I generally have my stealth suits run up and lay a few det-packs, then have the Space Marines raise hell... when the enemy comes over to attack *KA_BOOM*

  6. #15566
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Eh, maybe I'm just weird - I generally have my stealth suits run up and lay a few det-packs, then have the Space Marines raise hell... when the enemy comes over to attack *KA_BOOM*
    Thats what im talking about.

    Though, those detpacks are pretty over powered but oh well.

    That is stealth and subtlety. The opposite would be landing a cruiser and diembarking a hundred space marines.

    I dont mean like running super stealthy assassination missions like ninjas, im talking about surgical strikes and raids.

  7. #15567
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Yeah, but the Marines themselves aren't being stealthy - it's the Stealth Suit guys

    Though, it'd be funny as all HELL to see a Space Marine creeping up behind someone ... I mean, it's a giant, mechanized suit of armor... the servos themselves should give em away XD

  8. #15568
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Yeah, but the Marines themselves aren't being stealthy - it's the Stealth Suit guys

    Though, it'd be funny as all HELL to see a Space Marine creeping up behind someone ... I mean, it's a giant, mechanized suit of armor... the servos themselves should give em away XD
    I dunno, in a massive firefight its typically rather hard to hear the servos.

    The same arguement as the supposed defect of the m1 garand when the mag pops and hits the ground enemies can hear the pinging sound. I find it doubtfull that throughout grenades, artillery, machine gun fire, and bombs and tanks, a German can hear that sound. I find that to be total BS.

  9. #15569
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    OH trust me... my grandfather has been there, done that - the common thing was to do "lapse" reloads - they hear the ping, come around the corner, and your buddy is ready with his M1 and you with your 1911 Colt .45 Consider that often times, especially at night, but generally in any kind of fight situation your senses are INCREDIBLY sharp due to the excess of adrenaline.

  10. #15570
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    OH trust me... my grandfather has been there, done that - the common thing was to do "lapse" reloads - they hear the ping, come around the corner, and your buddy is ready with his M1 and you with your 1911 Colt .45 Consider that often times, especially at night, but generally in any kind of fight situation your senses are INCREDIBLY sharp due to the excess of adrenaline.
    My grandfather also used the m1 garand, good gun.

    Isnt the M14 the same gun except with no wood, and a different mag system?

  11. #15571
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    The M1 Garand was the springboard for many rifles:

    T20
    Springfield
    T25
    M14


    The M14 was a spectacular failure, as it attempted to replace the M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, M3 Grease Gun, and the M1918 BAR - it failed in all respects, having too much recoil for an assault-rifle and being too light a caliber for a machine gun. It was too unweildy and heavy for a carbine... and was generally inferior to the M1 Garand itself.

    However, the M14 IS still in use today - it has excellent accuracy and good range, making it a shining example of a marksmans rifle, a feature it's used in the NAVY Seals and other branches of the armed forces.

    You can read more about it here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M14_rifle

  12. #15572
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    The M1 Garand was the springboard for many rifles:

    T20
    Springfield
    T25
    M14


    The M14 was a spectacular failure, as it attempted to replace the M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, M3 Grease Gun, and the M1918 BAR - it failed in all respects, having too much recoil for an assault-rifle and being too light a caliber for a machine gun. It was too unweildy and heavy for a carbine... and was generally inferior to the M1 Garand itself.

    However, the M14 IS still in use today - it has excellent accuracy and good range, making it a shining example of a marksmans rifle, a feature it's used in the NAVY Seals and other branches of the armed forces.

    You can read more about it here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M14_rifle
    So, back to topic.

  13. #15573

    Why SW is likely to kill ST. Soundly.

    I don't know if anyone has pointed this out yet, but SW has access to much more powerful methods of energy creation than antimatter reactions. Everyone knows Alderaan was destroyed by the Death Star, but what most don't seem to notice is that the planet was almost vaporized in a few frames. Someone much more educated than I did the math and found it would take a neutron star made of antimatter and half the diameter of the Death Star to destroy a planet of that size in such a spectacular way. We've seen the inside of a death star and know the generator is much much smaller, so we can tell that SW technology involves energy sources much stronger than M/AM reactions powering their vessels. This implies that phasers, disruptors, and torpedoes will bounce off of SW capital ship shields, while turbolasers will punch right through ST shields, and ion cannons will shut down every system aboard their targets.

  14. #15574
    Quote Originally Posted by FallenMan View Post
    I don't know if anyone has pointed this out yet, but SW has access to much more powerful methods of energy creation than antimatter reactions. Everyone knows Alderaan was destroyed by the Death Star, but what most don't seem to notice is that the planet was almost vaporized in a few frames. Someone much more educated than I did the math and found it would take a neutron star made of antimatter and half the diameter of the Death Star to destroy a planet of that size in such a spectacular way. We've seen the inside of a death star and know the generator is much much smaller, so we can tell that SW technology involves energy sources much stronger than M/AM reactions powering their vessels. This implies that phasers, disruptors, and torpedoes will bounce off of SW capital ship shields, while turbolasers will punch right through ST shields, and ion cannons will shut down every system aboard their targets.
    Well for starters most of the empires ships arent the size of planets. Second off, the main reactor doesn't need to have as much power as you say if it worked more like a capacitor, storing up energy over time but the trade off being a lower rate of fire, but you wouldnt need such a demanding energy source.

    If you were right than the DS 2 should have had an excellant rate of fire because of that massive amount of energy output.


    I love the irony of the empire.

    The death star is defeated exploiting a hole 2 meters across leading to the core, and two proton torpedos were fired into it and followed the tunnel. And blew the damn thing up.

    Solution in death star II.

    They made a hole big enough for a fucking ship to fly through. I mean what morons, I could see the whole conversation going on between the engineers.

    "The death star was destroyed by the rebellion off of a lucky shot of two torpedos down a hole two meters wide. So any ideas for improvement?"

    - "how bout we make a hole big enough to fit a ship inside?"

    "Okay lets do it, lets see those rebels fly a ship down this hole."

  15. #15575
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Lol... that and the DS didn't vaporize the planet as evidenced by the fact that the Falcon flew into the asteroid field left by it a little later in the movie :P

  16. #15576
    Minister of Technology
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    4,149
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    I still think Utopia Staryards and Fed HQ would prove an uncrackable target for the Empire, if only by the virtue of armed stations therein. The only reason the Borg Cube waltzed in the way it did was because the Borg had adapated to the current generation Federation weapons... and as we know, once they adapt, no matter how much firepower you pour into it, it's pretty much moot point.
    BS, way BS. We know from the e[pisode where the Borg kidnapped Seven of Nine that the Borg do not become immune to weapon attacks but more efficent in shielding. They have superior energy generation and shielding capabilities to even a pair of GCS class vessels. So one on one or even two on one the Borg cube wins. Now In First Contact we see that 2 dozen Federation ships had the Cube all but destroyed. Even without the arraval of the Enterprise E they likely would have won with the loss of one or two more vessels. Hell, the only reason the Cube one Wolf 357 was becuase of the tactical genius of Picard.


    Now, the Imperial Star Detroyer has thousands of times the energy generation and shielding capabilities of a Federation GCS. The Typical Borg cube even with adpation would find itself smashed to smithereens within seconds. Which means even a small fleet of Federation vessels had NO chance against an ISD. How can a vessel to whicha 128 megaton weapon is a serious threat face a vessel to which a 200 gigaton weapon is a standard gun.

  17. #15577
    Minister of Technology
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Lol... that and the DS didn't vaporize the planet as evidenced by the fact that the Falcon flew into the asteroid field left by it a little later in the movie :P
    Very true, however it did energetically blow up a planet defeat gravitational binding energy to the point where the debris was moving away form the center at significant speeds. Just defeating the gravitational binding energy enough for a slow break up require more power than 7 years of what our Sol can produce.

  18. #15578
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    BS, way BS. We know from the e[pisode where the Borg kidnapped Seven of Nine that the Borg do not become immune to weapon attacks but more efficent in shielding. They have superior energy generation and shielding capabilities to even a pair of GCS class vessels. So one on one or even two on one the Borg cube wins. Now In First Contact we see that 2 dozen Federation ships had the Cube all but destroyed. Even without the arraval of the Enterprise E they likely would have won with the loss of one or two more vessels. Hell, the only reason the Cube one Wolf 357 was becuase of the tactical genius of Picard.


    Now, the Imperial Star Detroyer has thousands of times the energy generation and shielding capabilities of a Federation GCS. The Typical Borg cube even with adpation would find itself smashed to smithereens within seconds. Which means even a small fleet of Federation vessels had NO chance against an ISD. How can a vessel to whicha 128 megaton weapon is a serious threat face a vessel to which a 200 gigaton weapon is a standard gun.
    All but destroyed... are you fucking joking? That fleet of 2 dozen federation ships started as what, 50????? And how many operational ships did we see when Picard co-ordinated the attack? I counted, at most, a dozen...

    I hardly say that was "mostly destroyed"... and your ISD is a POS and you know it. PROVE that 128 megatons is a "serious threat" and PROVE that you can fire 200 gigaton weapons at all...

    Oh, yeah, you CAN'T! Because your full of CRAP
    Last edited by Kittamaru; 04-30-09 at 11:36 PM.

  19. #15579
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Very true, however it did energetically blow up a planet defeat gravitational binding energy to the point where the debris was moving away form the center at significant speeds. Just defeating the gravitational binding energy enough for a slow break up require more power than 7 years of what our Sol can produce.
    Okay, two points here:

    1) For all we know, they simply caused the core to boil away... a very likely proposition given how the planet exploded. It's like popping a kernal of corn - fun to watch, but hardly impressive.

    2) We dont' know that Alderaan didn't form back into a planet... in all honesty, we have no idea what happened a few weeks after it went boom...

  20. #15580
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Greg Bear's novel, "The Forge Of God", contains an interesting refinement of this technique. Here, the antagonist instead generates antimatter in the form of a "slug" of anti-neutronium - superdense material massing a billion kilograms per cubic centimetre. This is fired into the Earth's core. Neutronium passes through ordinary matter as easily as a ball flies through the air, so the anti-neutronium slug doesn't annihilate immediately; rather, it builds up a protective sheath of plasma around it as it plunges downwards towards the Earth's core. It's then followed up by a slug of regular neutronium, which also falls into the core, at a time calculated to meet the first slug head-on at the exact centre of the Earth, where they annihilate themselves, and soon afterwards, the Earth itself. Highly space-efficient, and with the added bonus of all the energy being released at the Earth's core, where it can do the most damage. In the book, the antagonists simultaneously detonate nuclear warheads in certain oceanic trenches, to weaken the crust and allow the planet to be blown apart more easily.

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