Star Wars vs Star Trek

[tuberculatious]

Don't snipers target specific areas like the brain stem or the middle of the chest if the brain stem is not available (americans).

[fedr808]

Incendiary rounds are meant to take out light vehicles. Actually it is considered illegal by Geneva to use incendiary rounds against infantry because as you can imagine it is a pretty f***** up way to die.

Anyways those DU rounds an A-10 carries is more lethal against tanks and light vehicles than incendiary rounds are.

So why aould they carry incendiary rounds if their standard load out is superior?

[fedr808]

A huge number of pistols and SMGs in fact.
(Including M16 variants).


Unless you're talking about AMRs (Anti-Materiel Rifles now finding a role as heavy/ long range sniper weapons) most sniper rifles are around 7.62 mm - considerably less than the .45's 11.43mm.

Yah but the problem with the barret fifty cal, is that it is good against vehicles, but the projectile is incredibly heavy meaning it is harder to hit a target further than 1500 meters, not impossible but when time is of the essence you dont want to be caught dead with that thing.

[Oli]

Anyways those DU rounds an A-10 carries is more lethal against tanks and light vehicles than incendiary rounds are.
So why aould they carry incendiary rounds if their standard load out is superior?

A DU round (or indeed any solid penetrator) versus soft skin will not, as a discrete round, be as effective as an HE/I one. There's a lot of places in, say, a large cargo truck that the round could just punch a hole in the body work. If it ignites and/ or explodes...
Fewer shots for more effect against soft skin, and very light armour.

Yah but the problem with the barret fifty cal, is that it is good against vehicles, but the projectile is incredibly heavy meaning it is harder to hit a target further than 1500 meters, not impossible but when time is of the essence you dont want to be caught dead with that thing.

Meh, and the Hungarians (I think) have a 20mm "sniper rifle" (or even the FN BRG 15) - how's that for difficult to bug out with?

[Nasor]

LOL, No. My tactics are actuall examination of the film and script, answering the question, and using standard logic.

I admit i do add insults, but that is after I answer the argument and then insult the writer if it was a particularly stupid and inane argument. That's just venting and at least I have not made the comments you have made.

Kittamaru is fairly immune to standard logic or any sort of formal debating; he pretty much just makes shit up, waits to see if anyone calls him on his bullshit, and then immediately tries to change the subject if and when he's shown to be wrong. His attempt to post screen shots showing a SD bridge tower being destroyed by an asteroid impact, when in fact it showed no such thing, was pretty typical.

However it's very amusing that even when he gets caught time and again making up bullshit, after someone gives a thorough, logical explanation of why he's wrong, he still likes to accuse his opponent of not using logic, making things up, being stupid, etc - even though he's the one who just got caught making up bullshit.

[Algernon]

My bad, they are mostly 7.62mm spec.

I guess the first thing that popped into my head was the m107 Barette.

[Oli]

It does sort of stick out doesn't it?
Such a huge MoFo it tends to overshadow everything else.

[Kittamaru]

Hey, could ST even build one in the first place? No. Point still goes to SW for superioor engineering an

So The first one had a flaw, the first of anything tends to have a flaw.



And the X-wing is 12 meters long not 15 ft.

Yes, Star Trek built one... it was bigger than the Death Star. It held a fucking STAR inside of it... it was called the Dyson Sphere.

Remember that thing?

Oh yeah.

Pwnt.

[Kittamaru]

Kittamaru is fairly immune to standard logic or any sort of formal debating; he pretty much just makes shit up, waits to see if anyone calls him on his bullshit, and then immediately tries to change the subject if and when he's shown to be wrong. His attempt to post screen shots showing a SD bridge tower being destroyed by an asteroid impact, when in fact it showed no such thing, was pretty typical.

Uh, prove to me it showed no such thing - I didn't respond to Scotts comment because it's pretty fucking obvious the ISD didn't move THAT far that the bridge would be OFF SCENE... the bridge was there pre impact, and was gone post impact - prett clear and cut

However it's very amusing that even when he gets caught time and again making up bullshit, after someone gives a thorough, logical explanation of why he's wrong, he still likes to accuse his opponent of not using logic, making things up, being stupid, etc - even though he's the one who just got caught making up bullshit.

Actually, you're pretty amusing... almost as much so as Scott, but I'll give you another chance as you have shown, in the past, the ability to reason and make somewhat intuitive judgments.

[Kittamaru]

A DU round (or indeed any solid penetrator) versus soft skin will not, as a discrete round, be as effective as an HE/I one. There's a lot of places in, say, a large cargo truck that the round could just punch a hole in the body work. If it ignites and/ or explodes...
Fewer shots for more effect against soft skin, and very light armour.


Meh, and the Hungarians (I think) have a 20mm "sniper rifle" (or even the FN BRG 15) - how's that for difficult to bug out with?

Forget the 20mm... the US military is currently examining an 80mm High Impulse rifle... that mofo is scary shit...

[Kittamaru]

Proof that the ISD bridge tower is FUCKING GONE:



Note the location of the ISD bridge tower- you can't see anything behind it...

IMPACT


AS THE DUST SETTLES:



NOTE - NOW YOU CAN SEE THE WINDOWS AND ENGINES OF THE EXECUTOR THRU THE DEBRIS FIELD - ERGO, THE BRIDGE TOWER IS FUCKING GONE! You can even see a large piece of debris floating around where the tower SHOULD be!

And no, it didn't move... it wasn't moving that fast pre-impact for something like that to happen... in fact, if it moved any significant distance, at some point it should have been VISIBLE as it passed outside the dust cloud, and THEN off screen... however, we did not see that.

It's GONE.

Nasor, Scott, I will concede that the bridge survived if you can come up with SOME fashion of a logical argument against it.

[antaran_1979]

aren't there still sniper rifles in the old "long" 7.62mm? that thing had high muzzle velocity if i recall. don't know about the stopping power though. they were made for riflemen tactics so emphasis was on long range.

TWS, i did consider adding the fighter wings to the ISD in the simulator. i even scripted the bombs on Tie-Bombers my using limited charge short range pulse weapons. i just haven't decided wether to make them independant entities or part of the shuttle launch framework. i fear the AI will not use them if i add them to the shuttles. at least not in the proper way.

Nasor, well near everyone that has wached the movie can tell you the tower is not there. some hav proposed it got "detached" in stead of destroyed, but the fact is where it used to stand, now only dust remains.

sorry for being absent for so long, but i'm buisy as hell

[fedr808]

Forget the 20mm... the US military is currently examining an 80mm High Impulse rifle... that mofo is scary shit...

Dude, most missile launchers carried by infantry aren't that large.

An 80 mm is the same size as the Panzer's main gun in WWII.


Also, incendiary rounds detonate when they hit a solid thing. This is okay for soft skinned vehicles because often enough the thin armor wont detonate it until the round has passed inside of the vehicle.

But with tanks, the round detonates on the outside and is stopped by the tank armor a lot of the time. So effectively an incendiary round is not effective towards armor.

But depleted uranium core rounds of the avenger are about 2 pounds each and half a foot long, when those things hit the tank at 3500 feet per second, they have enough momentum or as oli would like me to say "kinetic Energy" that they literally rip apart the tank armor they hit.

They WILL pierce that tank armor, and when 50 rounds hit a tank and 99% of them pierce the armor, there is not a snowball's chance in hell that tank will survive.

[Enterprise-D]

I can't provide any specific references at the moment, but I'm pretty sure Soong did indeed design data to gradually become human (or at least, to gradually develop a human-like mind). The idea was that since Lore went crazy when he was created with human emotions etc. from initial activation, Soong hoped that Data could gradually develop a human mind but still be sane if he started out relatively non-human and slowly "worked his way into it." I think this was all explained in that DS9/TNG crossover episode, where Data suddenly started having dreams and met with Soong in a dream sequence (although I'm not entirely sure that was the episode).

Also, wasn't the stuff about data merely being designed to seem human so that people would be comfortable around him just something that Lore told him? If so, there's a good chance it was just BS.

Nope...this is your idea, not used in the show. Data himself quoted his design parameters as a humanoid mimicry for their comfort, not ever mentioning that it was meant for his own development.

Once more (I'd mentioned in a previous post), when Soong called Data and Lore back home, he stated on screen that Data had developed far beyond what he himself ever expected.

[fedr808]

Don't snipers target specific areas like the brain stem or the middle of the chest if the brain stem is not available (americans).

Well yah sure if that person is standing still and you are aiming from 50 feet away. If the person is standing still you shoot the chest or the head. If you hit the chest with that size round that person will fall over or be stunned and you can shoot again.

But if your using a 50 calibre sniper rifle, it doesnt matter where you hit him that guy will be dead, because even if you hit and appendage, that round will literaly rip that part of the body off, and you cannot deal with that shock, trauma, and blood loss and keep the guy alive.

[Kittamaru]

Dude, most missile launchers carried by infantry aren't that large.

An 80 mm is the same size as the Panzer's main gun in WWII.


Also, incendiary rounds detonate when they hit a solid thing. This is okay for soft skinned vehicles because often enough the thin armor wont detonate it until the round has passed inside of the vehicle.

But with tanks, the round detonates on the outside and is stopped by the tank armor a lot of the time. So effectively an incendiary round is not effective towards armor.

But depleted uranium core rounds of the avenger are about 2 pounds each and half a foot long, when those things hit the tank at 3500 feet per second, they have enough momentum or as oli would like me to say "kinetic Energy" that they literally rip apart the tank armor they hit.

They WILL pierce that tank armor, and when 50 rounds hit a tank and 99% of them pierce the armor, there is not a snowball's chance in hell that tank will survive.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=76mm&pl=true

Trust me... it's real - it's 76mm, but none the less

And the incendiary rounds are for LIGHTLY armored vehicles mate. Not tanks.

[Kittamaru]

Well yah sure if that person is standing still and you are aiming from 50 feet away. If the person is standing still you shoot the chest or the head. If you hit the chest with that size round that person will fall over or be stunned and you can shoot again.

But if your using a 50 calibre sniper rifle, it doesnt matter where you hit him that guy will be dead, because even if you hit and appendage, that round will literaly rip that part of the body off, and you cannot deal with that shock, trauma, and blood loss and keep the guy alive.

Not true - people can (and have) survived being hit with 50 caliber rounds...

[fedecell]

The universe Starwas mark two generations both overcome to the other ones

[Kittamaru]

er... can you try that again fedecell? Not sure what you mean

[fedr808]

Not true - people can (and have) survived being hit with 50 caliber rounds...

Name one.
Especially if they were hit by the incediary rounds for that sniper rifle.

And also, incendiary rounds are meant to pierce light vehicle but not tanks. If you have a gun that can tear a tank to pieces why the hell would you use a weaker round for a lighter vehicle?

YOU WOULD NOT. You would use the better armor piercer.