Star Wars vs Star Trek

**Kittamaru** · 04-20-09, 10:13 AM

I have to get ready and go into work - see ya'll later.

**fedr808** · 04-20-09, 10:24 AM

Well considering that 99% of the weapons being discussed here are energy based more energy means more destructive power. Are you really saying that hooking up a laser to a 9 volt battery will have as much destructive output as a nuclear generator? More energy equals mroe power to weapons, more power to weapons equals more destructive force.

Here i'll simplify it.

Bigger ship=bigger engines=bigger energy demand=bigger generator=more power=more power to weapons and shields= MORE DESTRUCTIVE POWER

**Kittamaru** · 04-20-09, 10:43 AM

No, it doesn't...

if this were true, that'd mean that a russian 53cm torpedo has more destructive power than a us mk48adcap...

in reality, the 53cm torp has more PAYLOAD, but because the mk 48 uses a SHAPED charge, it does far, far more damage.

Again, power=/=destructive force... it's how you USE that power that matters.

and, again, Lasers =/= Phasers... lasers were phased out in the early trek times because their maximum practical output had been reached.

**Nasor** · 04-20-09, 11:08 AM

Further proof that the imperium has many millions of ships:

According to the official timeline in the 5th edition rule book, during the Catelexis Hersey there was a disturbance in the warp that burnt out the psychic navigators in many ships that were in the warp. It's stated that "millions upon millions" of ships were lost as a result. It doesn't seem that this actually destroyed the navy or crippled the imperium, so apparently the navy not only has "millions upon millions" of ships, but they can lose millions of ships and remain at least somewhat effective (since chaos/the orks/whoever apparently didn't take the opportunity to stomp the imperium flat).

**fedr808** · 04-20-09, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Kittamaru

No, it doesn't...

if this were true, that'd mean that a russian 53cm torpedo has more destructive power than a us mk48adcap...

in reality, the 53cm torp has more PAYLOAD, but because the mk 48 uses a SHAPED charge, it does far, far more damage.

Again, power=/=destructive force... it's how you USE that power that matters.

and, again, Lasers =/= Phasers... lasers were phased out in the early trek times because their maximum practical output had been reached.

Yet, the 40k lasers never reached the maximum practical output in 40k because the maximum practical output for yours is limited by several things including maximum power, of course considering our power generater may even be the size of your ships, we have broken through your tiny limitations.

And in reality, explosives=/= electrical power. Why you keep making this silly little comparison is beyond me.

If we both have the same energy based weapons, and you can pump 4 mega joules of power into it, and i can pump around 50 mega joules, according to your arguement you would win, according to common sense i would win.

**Enterprise-D** · 04-20-09, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by fedr808

hey enterprise long time no see.

Hey...been around, just a bit quiet on this thread...

Originally Posted by Kittamaru

an interest? Come ON man... Data and Tasha Yar got it ON! They did the verticle electric slide! Data had SEX! What robot in Star Wars can claim THAT?

LOL I was being coy

**Lord Vasago** · 04-20-09, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by Kittamaru

an interest? Come ON man... Data and Tasha Yar got it ON! They did the verticle electric slide! Data had SEX! What robot in Star Wars can claim THAT?

In SW they don't need droids to get laid.

**Kittamaru** · 04-20-09, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by fedr808

Yet, the 40k lasers never reached the maximum practical output in 40k because the maximum practical output for yours is limited by several things including maximum power, of course considering our power generater may even be the size of your ships, we have broken through your tiny limitations.

And in reality, explosives=/= electrical power. Why you keep making this silly little comparison is beyond me.

If we both have the same energy based weapons, and you can pump 4 mega joules of power into it, and i can pump around 50 mega joules, according to your arguement you would win, according to common sense i would win.

Because its' an easy one that you can understand... there will always be limitations to how a laser operates and to it's output intensity...

Now, in modern physics, a matter/antimatter reaction has the highest POSSIBLE energy output, because it is 100% matter/antimatter becoming 100% energy... makes sense, right? I mean, what kind of "fuel" do they use in WH40K? They must use some medium for production of energy...

Now, in Star Trek, they found that even super-high powered lasers were just not effective vs the enemies they were facing... so they replaced them with Photon Cannons which evolved into phaser emitters which evolved into phaser arrays... each one more powerful than it's predecessor...

**Kittamaru** · 04-20-09, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Lord Vasago

In SW they don't need droids to get laid.

*smirks* Then explain why the Jedi are supposed to be Celebit

**fedr808** · 04-20-09, 04:55 PM

yah i don't get that, it's pretty stupid and idiotic if you ask me.
Though it reminds me of this great joke. It goes:
The pope died and went to heaven, when in heaven he decided he wanted to become a master of all known languages, and because the library of heaven has every book ever written he becomes a master in every known language after 1,000 years of study. He than decides to spend a thousand years studying every single form of the bible ever written. One day the librarian angel here's him crying over a book, she flies over to him and asks what is wrong. He says through his tears "the "r" the "r" it was supposed to be "celebrate"

**Lord Vasago** · 04-20-09, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by Kittamaru

*smirks* Then explain why the Jedi are supposed to be Celebit

Supposed to be ... hehehe

don't forget that the only one they make a mistery about is Anakin Skywalker.

All the rest has to come from somewhere lol.

**TW Scott** · 04-21-09, 02:21 AM

Originally Posted by Kittamaru

No, it doesn't...

if this were true, that'd mean that a russian 53cm torpedo has more destructive power than a us mk48adcap...

in reality, the 53cm torp has more PAYLOAD, but because the mk 48 uses a SHAPED charge, it does far, far more damage.

Again, power=/=destructive force... it's how you USE that power that matters.

and, again, Lasers =/= Phasers... lasers were phased out in the early trek times because their maximum practical output had been reached.

Actyually in reality the mk48 does far less damage, it just focuses it on a smaller area in order to pierce armor. the 53cm torp does not do this and would actually do more damage to lightly armored or unarmored vessels.

Think of it this way the shape charge is much like a cutting torch, it cutts a small hole through the armor and damages a few internal things. The regular charge explodes on the surface, if it blasts through the armor it bows a BIG hole through it, it's just less likely to make the hole.

In the laser vs phasers argument, the Federtaion found they could use Phasers more effectively at the power levels they could generate. It's not that they reached an upper end with lasers as there is actually no upper end with them. More power in more power out. Now if phasers are truly more effective at each power level then ST has a lot more to fear than SW does. While SW energy systems are light years ahead of ST, the ST phaser is just a sideways development of the laser.

Imagine a Star Destroyer with Turbophasers!!!!!!!!

Though honestly Phasers are subject to a lot more interfernce than lasers. Probably a far trade off at the levels ST is at, but when you create 200 gigaton ship weapons the trade off might not be worth it.

**TW Scott** · 04-21-09, 02:27 AM

Originally Posted by Kittamaru

*smirks* Then explain why the Jedi are supposed to be Celebit

Actually the Jedi being Celebate (the state of being unmarried) comes forma Jedi Philosopher who attemtped to codify the so called Jedi code circa 1000 BY (Before Yavin). Before then Jedi did indeed get married to jedi and non jedi alike. Quite a few Jedi fell becuase of their attachment to family. They didnlt become Sith, but they just weren't Jedi anymore. So the rulle of no attachments was made.

However at no time did they say Jedi had to be Chaste (the state of not having sex) and yes you can be Celebate and not be Chaste.

Now since the rebirth of the Jedi, Grandmaster Skwalker has encouraged his pupils to love, marry, reach out to family and friends as he had found that they would keep you in the Light and failing that would draggin you kicking and screaming from the Dark.

**Kittamaru** · 04-21-09, 02:50 AM

Originally Posted by TW Scott

Actyually in reality the mk48 does far less damage, it just focuses it on a smaller area in order to pierce armor. the 53cm torp does not do this and would actually do more damage to lightly armored or unarmored vessels.

No... not really. The reason the mk48 does more damage is because it focuses it all on the target, instead of part of the damage going in all directions... a mk48 will split a lightly armored vessel in half, and has actually flipped over unarmored hydrofoils... it's also one of the few torpedoes truely effective against the Russian Alfa and the Typhoon class of titanium-hulled ships...

Think of it this way the shape charge is much like a cutting torch, it cutts a small hole through the armor and damages a few internal things. The regular charge explodes on the surface, if it blasts through the armor it bows a BIG hole through it, it's just less likely to make the hole. .

Uhm... no, not really. Believe it or not, most "conventional" torpedoes don't blow holes into ships... they actually create a massive cavitation below them and break the ships back via pressure wave... the mk48 ADCAP, however, simply blows you to hell via it's shaped charge... but there's nothing small about the hole it leaves. It'll peal a submarine apart like a bananna, starting at the screw and working fowards... you've never actually seen one in action, have you.

In the laser vs phasers argument, the Federtaion found they could use Phasers more effectively at the power levels they could generate. It's not that they reached an upper end with lasers as there is actually no upper end with them. More power in more power out. Now if phasers are truly more effective at each power level then ST has a lot more to fear than SW does. While SW energy systems are light years ahead of ST, the ST phaser is just a sideways development of the laser.

*grins* Yes... exactly... Star Wars tech is 'lightyears' ahead of Star Trek tech... except that lightyears is a measure of distance, not time, and thus that comparison makes as much sense as this picture:

No, a phaser does its damage via a different style and medium than the laser... a laser is like blunt force trauma... power does the job. A Phaser is like using a finely edged Katana - the finesse does the job.

Imagine a Star Destroyer with Turbophasers!!!!!!!!

Though honestly Phasers are subject to a lot more interfernce than lasers. Probably a far trade off at the levels ST is at, but when you create 200 gigaton ship weapons the trade off might not be worth it.

1) Please show me where a shipboard phaser has been subjected to "interferance" other than the one time ALL shipboard power systems were being affected by a large, intricately laid trap...
2) Where do you keep pulling this 200 gigaton ship number bullshit from... a little proof would be nice.

Gitt off yer high horse... the pot isn't good for it!

**Kittamaru** · 04-21-09, 02:52 AM

Originally Posted by TW Scott

Actually the Jedi being Celebate (the state of being unmarried) comes forma Jedi Philosopher who attemtped to codify the so called Jedi code circa 1000 BY (Before Yavin). Before then Jedi did indeed get married to jedi and non jedi alike. Quite a few Jedi fell becuase of their attachment to family. They didnlt become Sith, but they just weren't Jedi anymore. So the rulle of no attachments was made.

However at no time did they say Jedi had to be Chaste (the state of not having sex) and yes you can be Celebate and not be Chaste.

Now since the rebirth of the Jedi, Grandmaster Skwalker has encouraged his pupils to love, marry, reach out to family and friends as he had found that they would keep you in the Light and failing that would draggin you kicking and screaming from the Dark.

Mhm... so then, please point to me in the movies where Luke said any of that...

Furthermore, in the movies, they say that Attachment is what is forbidden... not Love nor Sex... ATTACHMENT. I don't know about your moral principles, scott, but if I'm going to have SEX with someone, I'm pretty damn ATTACHED to them... both physically and emotionally...

But Lucas revealed that despite their monastic regime, Jedi were permitted to have sex.

"Jedi Knights aren't celibate - the thing that is forbidden is attachments - and possessive relationships."

From Lucas himself... attachments are forbidden... *grins slightly* but how do you have sex without attachments, unless your having sex with some random whore you paid for...? So does that mean prostitution is legal in Star Wars...? My my...

**antaran_1979** · 04-21-09, 05:22 AM

Originally Posted by Lord Vasago

do i read this correctly??? worf hacked into their computer and told it what to say ????? hmmmm doesn't sound good for ST does it.

it sure does not. most Fed officers are as incompetent as their Imp counterparts. whoever succeded Worf at the tactical should have changed the access codes right away.

**antaran_1979** · 04-21-09, 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by Lord Vasago

I'm not saying those schips aren't 8km long. but if you look closely to the comparising picture and you know that a isd is 480m tall then this ship is between 6,9 and 7km high.

I don't know this wh40k but if that is the ship fedr is talking about their is a slight problem. Your ships have shields but they rely more on there amor (please correct me if i'm wrong) but how the hell do you defend your ship when there are windows higher than a isd. it must be extremely tough glass.

don't take wh40k ships that seriously, it's not like they are ment to be plausible. it 's a game after all, and a game with mythical origins. just ignore the windows

**antaran_1979** · 04-21-09, 05:29 AM

Originally Posted by Nasor

Dude, they have a billion planets to police. Even with 150 million ships, that means they have many planets for every ship.

am i correct to assume that wh40k is technicaly another universe then? there is no way that our galaxy has a billion habitable worlds after all. this must be a larger galaxy.

**antaran_1979** · 04-21-09, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by TW Scott

Yes he owes it to Asimov, I was leaving the obvious out. However his main personality is much like an emotionaless C-3po, constantly intrigued, amazed and disppointed in sentient beings.

i think he is much closer to Pinochio, trying to be a "real boy". C3P0 is your resident comic releaf in SW and this is the only plot oriented similarity i can see.

**antaran_1979** · 04-21-09, 05:35 AM

Originally Posted by TW Scott

However even a half way decent hacker can hack Star Trek computers as shown by Voyager when they headed back in time. It's not technology that gets you through but talent. And SW ships as routine carry Slicers (what SW calls hackers)

However, think on thism, Worf made the Ferengi vessel see a ghost vessel that was not there and rapidly approaching. So tell me again he neede the codes to do that.

they will need access to the computers first. there is no hardline or tech compatibility to do this. good point on Worf causing the ghost vessel though.