Star Wars vs Star Trek

[TW Scott]

There is a point of discussing it, because real-world science is taking it's ques from Star Trek, not Star Wars, down to giving them the namesake. For crying out loud, the Enterprise space shuttle was the testbed... they are building a new Enterprise-Class super-carrier for the USN because of public outcry that they were not going to do so!

You do realize that Enterprise was a ships name LONG before Star Trek. The first converted carrier was Enterprise, the first nuclear carrier was Enterrpise. The Enterprise survived Pearl Harbor becuase it was late getting home. The Enterprise helped defeat Japanese forces time and time again and even survived her bow being blown off by a kamikaze run. The ship actually sailed backwards into home port and was back on duty in record time.


Its THAT Enterprise the shuttle is named for and it is that Enterprise that brings out the furor every time a new class of carrier is developed. The ST Enterprise is just fractionally as famous.

[TW Scott]

Yeah, but you do realize the kind of energy needed to crack a planet (much less detonate it the way the DS did) is far more than a laser focusing array could manage... even if you split the laser into hundreds of sub-lasers... and here's a question:

The DS used an array of lasers to form the super-laser... how come they came together at a point and then changed direction? If they were lasers, they would simply pass thru each other without some serious gravity-manipulation... and even then, they wouldn't really form a more powerful beam... just a series of impacts at roughly the exact same time 0o'

Well more tot point why do we see the lasers as they are by nature not visible from the side. Perhaps the seperate beams are just a sort of marking for the main laser. Or a focusing beam as you said under gravity manipulation.

It doesn't matter in the end the DS has the power to shatter a planet end of story.

[TW Scott]

Uh... no, not really... minimal corruption? Booming economy? What economy? If you were the emporers butt buddy maybe...

Actually yes. Corruption among the imperial offices was punishable by death. As ooposed to the fine levied by the old republic. As for your other comments they pretain to the Old Republic.

Under the Empire droids were discouraged and Slavery was widely outlawed. You could end up a slave, but not legally. It was usually done by Hutts and other gangsters.

Now droids did work in facilities where no normal race could survive, but those are so far and few between as to be a laughable offence,


Now as for the Economy, it was so bustling that the Emperor was able to hide the construction of the Death Star II as a minor entry in a shipping business accounts. Not only that but it had been constructed in just six months. He also managed to hide the construction of a super star destroyer he had built under his palace on coruscant. These two massive expenditures of vessels worth more than the sum of the Federations Fleet were hidden so well nobody even suspected a paper trail.

[Lord Vasago]

Actually yes. Corruption among the imperial offices was punishable by death. As ooposed to the fine levied by the old republic. As for your other comments they pretain to the Old Republic.

Under the Empire droids were discouraged and Slavery was widely outlawed. You could end up a slave, but not legally. It was usually done by Hutts and other gangsters.

Now droids did work in facilities where no normal race could survive, but those are so far and few between as to be a laughable offence,


Now as for the Economy, it was so bustling that the Emperor was able to hide the construction of the Death Star II as a minor entry in a shipping business accounts. Not only that but it had been constructed in just six months. He also managed to hide the construction of a super star destroyer he had built under his palace on coruscant. These two massive expenditures of vessels worth more than the sum of the Federations Fleet were hidden so well nobody even suspected a paper trail.

don't forget the Eclipse-class star destroyer 17,5km long

[TW Scott]

As for what Star Wars gave us: Droids. Yes, I know robots were around before Star Trek and that some of them were quite cool. However before Star Trek a Robot had to be good for as multitude of things and was almost always bipedal. Star Trek gave us R2-D2 and mouse droids. Robots whose shap was decidedly not humanoid, and were more for their function.

After all does a starship mechanic need to be humanoid when he has all sorts of extra robotic arms and tools? Does a messenger droid need top look like anything more and remote control van? Or how about the interrogation droid whose nonhuman floating appearance helps intimidate prisoners. Star Wrs made it fashionable and desirable for robots to have form follow function. I mean look at the floor sweeper robots or the robot lawnmowers.

Finally, the Android Data can thank his existance in part to C-3PO. You will note they even have some of the same speaking patterns. Though even C-3PO showed more emotion than Data ever did.

[fedr808]

You do realize that Enterprise was a ships name LONG before Star Trek. The first converted carrier was Enterprise, the first nuclear carrier was Enterrpise. The Enterprise survived Pearl Harbor becuase it was late getting home. The Enterprise helped defeat Japanese forces time and time again and even survived her bow being blown off by a kamikaze run. The ship actually sailed backwards into home port and was back on duty in record time.


Its THAT Enterprise the shuttle is named for and it is that Enterprise that brings out the furor every time a new class of carrier is developed. The ST Enterprise is just fractionally as famous.

Also, That enterprise is debatedly the most famous single ship in history. It won 20 ish battle stars, the british admiralty pendant (no foreign ship other than the enterprise has ever won it). And a dozen other prestigious awards including the presidential unit citation.(this is even more prestigious than the congressional medal of honor by far). And the unofficial award of being declared sunk 3 times by the japanese.


Also, when kitt implied using site to site transportation as a weapon. I stated that im sure that transportation takes a few seconds and so long as the individual is visible he can be shot and killed even if he's nearly gone. I found proof. ST-E episode countdown, Major Hayes was shot and killed in the middle of transportation by a weapon that merely injured his comrade.

[fedr808]

There is a point of discussing it, because real-world science is taking it's ques from Star Trek, not Star Wars, down to giving them the namesake. For crying out loud, the Enterprise space shuttle was the testbed... they are building a new Enterprise-Class super-carrier for the USN because of public outcry that they were not going to do so!

PS, the enterprise aircraft carrier class came out before the nimitz your a few decades off.

[Nasor]

I'll have to re-watch the movie, but I remember them scanning something that told them it was a Trilithium Warhead... maybe it was just the reaction of the star? But that even still further supports my argument - if they can tell you what happened by just the effect, they MUST know what would cause said effect... right?

When they were looking around on the observatory after the romulan attack they found a romulan trichorder on one of the dead romulans and saw that it was set to scan for trilithium. Presumably the romulans figured out that this was where their stolen trilithium was taken, went to get it back, and fought with Sorin's klingon mercenaries, but the feds don't know that. The feds had a little conversation along the lines of "WTF would they have been looking for trilithium here?" and that's about it. There's never any indication that they have a clue that it might be useful for destroying a star. It never appears to even occur to them until after the star explodes, at which point they assume that the trilithium probably had something to do with it. There are also plenty of lines of dialog like Riker's "So he somehow used trilithium to destroy a star..." or Sorin's "Without me the trilithium would be useless!" that indicate they don't have a clue how he actually did it.

[Kittamaru]

Also, That enterprise is debatedly the most famous single ship in history. It won 20 ish battle stars, the british admiralty pendant (no foreign ship other than the enterprise has ever won it). And a dozen other prestigious awards including the presidential unit citation.(this is even more prestigious than the congressional medal of honor by far). And the unofficial award of being declared sunk 3 times by the japanese.


Also, when kitt implied using site to site transportation as a weapon. I stated that im sure that transportation takes a few seconds and so long as the individual is visible he can be shot and killed even if he's nearly gone. I found proof. ST-E episode countdown, Major Hayes was shot and killed in the middle of transportation by a weapon that merely injured his comrade.

Yes, but that was older tech - in ST: TNG, they are capable of removing the weapons fire from the pattern buffers, including shutting down a phaser being fired BY someone being transported

[Kittamaru]

PS, the enterprise aircraft carrier class came out before the nimitz your a few decades off.

I know, but originally the Enterprise we have now (CVN-65) was going to be the end... now, they are preparing the lay keel in, I believe, 2010, for a new Enterprise That makes me SO happy!

[Kittamaru]

When they were looking around on the observatory after the romulan attack they found a romulan trichorder on one of the dead romulans and saw that it was set to scan for trilithium. Presumably the romulans figured out that this was where their stolen trilithium was taken, went to get it back, and fought with Sorin's klingon mercenaries, but the feds don't know that. The feds had a little conversation along the lines of "WTF would they have been looking for trilithium here?" and that's about it. There's never any indication that they have a clue that it might be useful for destroying a star. It never appears to even occur to them until after the star explodes, at which point they assume that the trilithium probably had something to do with it. There are also plenty of lines of dialog like Riker's "So he somehow used trilithium to destroy a star..." or Sorin's "Without me the trilithium would be useless!" that indicate they don't have a clue how he actually did it.

That's weird though... we see Trilithium warheads used in VOY and DS9 for the same purpose... I'll have to find the episodes... in DS9, it was also used by Sisko as a chemical weapon...

[Nasor]

That's weird though... we see Trilithium warheads used in VOY and DS9 for the same purpose... I'll have to find the episodes... in DS9, it was also used by Sisko as a chemical weapon...

They use trilithium warheads in voyager to destroy stars? I don't remember that, but I'll believe you if you can give me an episode name. In any case, Generations came out before voyager, so presumably the crew on voyager knew about the events in Generations, which would have clued them in that it can somehow be used to destroy stars (assuming the chronology in the ST universe follows along with the release order of the films and shows).

In DS9 they knew that a runabout had been hijacked by a dominion agent and was heading for the bajoran sun at full speed, so under the circumstances doing something nasty to the sun was pretty much the only logical conclusion.

[fedr808]

Yes, but that was older tech - in ST: TNG, they are capable of removing the weapons fire from the pattern buffers, including shutting down a phaser being fired BY someone being transported

No, the weapons blast clearly went through the dead man's body before he teleported, but he was still hurt. Also, the guy was shot, he wasnt shooting.

[fedr808]

I know, but originally the Enterprise we have now (CVN-65) was going to be the end... now, they are preparing the lay keel in, I believe, 2010, for a new Enterprise That makes me SO happy!

Dude, get it into your head, they never named it the enterprise for star trek, do you really think that?

[Kittamaru]

No, the weapons blast clearly went through the dead man's body before he teleported, but he was still hurt. Also, the guy was shot, he wasnt shooting.

yes, but that was in ST: Enterprise... which

A) raped all of Star Trek sadly

and

B) Is OLD tech... in TNG, they have both stopped a person from firing and from being hit mid transport. It's happened a number of times.

[Kittamaru]

Dude, get it into your head, they never named it the enterprise for star trek, do you really think that?

Actually, the name of the Shuttle was taken via a public vote back then, if I'm not mistaken - much like the Pathfinder and other Mars probes. What made the name Enterprise popular I wonder... Certainly not Star Wars or WH:40K :P

[TW Scott]

Actually, the name of the Shuttle was taken via a public vote back then, if I'm not mistaken - much like the Pathfinder and other Mars probes. What made the name Enterprise popular I wonder... Certainly not Star Wars or WH:40K :P

Actually it was a write in campaign to the white house. Interestingly enough Enterprise never left our atmosphere or even had engines. She was mere a test vehicle.


However Roddenberry admits he took the name Enterprise from the famous Aircraft carrier. He planned on using the famous vessles popularity to help his show. He wasn;t a dumb man, he knew using an already famous vessel name would only boost his ratings.

As for the furor over CVN-65 being the last Enterprise, it was not trekkies who spoke up, but WWII veterans and Navy personel who served aboard the famous vessel. The Enterprise has been the pride of the US Navy for decades, to just let it fall to the wayside would be a tragedy.

[Kittamaru]

Actually it was a write in campaign to the white house. Interestingly enough Enterprise never left our atmosphere or even had engines. She was mere a test vehicle.


However Roddenberry admits he took the name Enterprise from the famous Aircraft carrier. He planned on using the famous vessles popularity to help his show. He wasn;t a dumb man, he knew using an already famous vessel name would only boost his ratings.

As for the furor over CVN-65 being the last Enterprise, it was not trekkies who spoke up, but WWII veterans and Navy personel who served aboard the famous vessel. The Enterprise has been the pride of the US Navy for decades, to just let it fall to the wayside would be a tragedy.

The Enterprise was and is more than a "mere" test vehicle... she is an icon and a symbol that America, nigh, the world holds dear as an example of what CAN be accomplished.

And you cannot deny Star Trek made the name Enterprise famous... yes, the ship itself was famous, but it was also infamous... many people don't like war... there are war hawks and peace doves and everything in between... Star Trek: TOS wasn't about war... it was a message of co-relation... and of course the sex-symbol Kirk for all the ladies out there... it was more than a "mere" TV show, and that's why I fight so vehemently for it... look at modern TV... it SUCKS! Back then, every kid and their grandfather sat down to watch Star Trek and Thomas and Knight Rider... shows that actually had MORAL FIBER... look at todays cartoons... they suck terribly...

Good examples:

Chowder

SuperJail

The Drinky Crow Show

The list goes on! Transformers SUCKS now... have you seen what they did to our childhood favorite? It's been raped... multiple times from multiple directions! The new Pokemon, even the new Disney shows... they suck!

I cling to Star Trek because, in all honesty, it's one of the remaining Vestages of the "old days" that's still on TV drawing a crowd

[Lord Vasago]

i do have to agree with Kitt on this one. except a few nice shows tv really suck these days.

i grew up with shows like:
Knight Rider
A-team
Buck Rogers
Manimal
Automan
The Highwayman
BSG
Logun's run

and the cartoons we're awesome

Thundercats
Jason and the Wheeled warriors
Goldorak
Ullysees 31
Remi

and on and on and on

these days the only things i still look at are Gostwhisperer , The deadZone, Heroes. KnightRider 2008, bsg

in sci-fi i still find FireFly the best show followed by Space Above and Beyond


hmmmm those where the days lol

[Lord Vasago]

Uss Enterprise is always been the flagship of the Navy since 1775

even the frensh and British Royal Navy have used that name for there capital ships.
Hms Enterprise in 1800

is would be logical that when we use that name for capital spaceships as well. It will be a everlasting name.

maybe StarTrek made the name more popular but in no way would that have contributed to naming the flagships Enterprise