Star Wars vs Star Trek

[Kittamaru]

Do you have any proof that my ships move so slow?

Yes... just read the books or play the games... becomes quite obvious

Do you have any proof that i even use bolters in space?

Yes... read this

Weapons Batteries usually are the primary armament for most warships. Since each battery consists of numerous banks of individual weapons, whole sections of the ship's hull can be covered by gun ports, launcher systems, turrets and weapon housings. The weapons employed vary immensely: plasma projectors, close-range missile launchers, bolters, laser cannons, rail guns, fusion beamers and graviton pulsars have been found on Imperial ships. These batteries fire in co-ordinated salvoes, to increase the chances to hit and amount of damage done to a target.

Hm... I see Plasma Based (antique), Missiles (antique), bolters (antique), rail guns (long antiqued) fusion beams (light threat), graviton pulsars (light threat), an laser cannons (medium threat). Nothing special there...

Do you have any proof that my shields cannot survive inside a sun even though they survive much, much, worse environments?

LOL, give me ONE environment worse than the inside of a fucking star...

Last time i checked, my bolters dont need to hit something moving the speed of light, just an infantryman running in terror away, and theyre pretty fucking good at that.

I'm talking about a starship you dipshit...

Antaran:
I made no claims that i remember that my shields were weak against lasers, theyre actually pretty good at taking a beating, but if you have an enemy battleship with tons of laser banks, than you are screwed.

Meaning obviously their shields don't provide good EM Protection, meaning Phasers would likely cut thru them like butter.

My arguement also was that pretty much no federation ship can destroy a planet through sheer firepower, they have to drill to the core and this whole list of things etc... while my ships CAN destroy a planet through sheer firepower.

Yes, yes they can - but you require HUGE ships and HUNDREDS of rounds to do it. Instead of blowing up the planet, Federation ships simply remove all life from the planet and move on. Far, far more effective... if they want to destroy the planet, ONE TORPEDO can cause the star to go supernova and *bang*, bye bye planet...

baka...

[Kittamaru]

Ever heard of a conversion beamer? Our techmarines have em, they do the same thing, except there is actually an actual explosion that can destroy nearby enemies, if it hit the wall of a building, the entire wall would explode.

Good for it... it wouldn't be HITTING a wall, would it. It'd be hitting a shield which, last I checked, has no matter for you to detonate...

[Kittamaru]

Yah thats kinda pathetic firing ranges.

Now, compare that to the 2 million KM + effective range of Federation Class 12 phasers (sovereign class) and torpedoes

[fedr808]

Now, compare that to the 2 million KM + effective range of Federation Class 12 phasers (sovereign class) and torpedoes

Wait why didnt you ever mention that when they started this thread when there were all of those SW spammers on the thread? You could have helped me out when i was on ST side.

Really you play the games and read the books? Yet you manage to not even know the mostobvious facts about it until i mention them and you look them up on the web.

Warships are primarily used for planetery bombardment and close in fire support, that means using lighter weapons like bolters and plasma cannons, etc.

How bout the inside of TWO STARS (lolz that was a total joke if you didnt catch that)

Im sorry, its hard to tell which is more useless.


Wait a second? From me saying that hundreds of lascannons against a void shield can destroy it, you gathered that your puny phasers are actually *cough* strong against them? Please, explain to me how you managed to *cough* logically explain this.


Anyways, if it took a puny little nano viruse to destroy 8472, wait till they meet the bio rounds that space marines can carry, man the acid in those eats through everything.

Anyways, a conversion beamer may be useless against a shield, but whom said your shields would survive it?

Anyways, from the number of my warships, even if you could bring 1,000 vessels to bear against me, i would still have enough vessels for each of your vessels to be facing off against 39 of my ships. Ive got number, and firepower. Worse comes to worse, we'll just ram yah. After several seconds both of the ship's shields would fail, after that you would be dead, there are several meters of Adamentium thick hull plating around the ship, that even when the shields were to fail, the hull was made to take nearly as much punishment, you cannot say the same about your ships,

[Nasor]

If they can navigate HyperSpace, I'd HOPE good enough to tell the difference between a Station and a Planetoid XD

To navigate hyperspace you only need to avoid running into stuff. They certainly knew that the DS was there, they just didn't realize that is was an artificial moon instead of a "real" moon. It's also possible that since the DS was much, much larger than anything anyone had ever seen before, the ship's computer just automatically tagged it as a planetoid.

Actually, the original "turn" was dictated by Gary Gygax for D&D... and so far I haven't seen any game state otherwise. 8 seconds makes sense for the time it takes to make a full-round action. Remember, a turn is MORE than just a single attack... it's a set of actions (move/move/minor, move/minor/attack, minor/minor/attack, etc) so logically it makes sense

A turn length in one game has zero to do with a turn length in another game. In 40k a turn can be used to move once and fire once, move twice without firing, or fire twice without moving. Saying that a soldier can only fire a semi-automatic gun once every four seconds is silly.

[Nasor]

In general:
40K has the numbers - huge numbers.
But their weapons and armour are generally *cough* shit: low ranges, and the rules are constructed such that even the heavy vehicles can be taken out by relatively low-grade weapons.

How do you know that their weapons and armor are shit? Yeah, their weapons can take out their armor, but you don't really know how relatively powerful either one is. So far as I know, there is zero information about the ranges of their space weapons.

[Oli]

How do you know that their weapons and armor are shit?

I was talking about 40K rather than the abortion of space warfare they call Battle Fleet Gothic.

Yeah, their weapons can take out their armor, but you don't really know how relatively powerful either one is. So far as I know, there is zero information about the ranges of their space weapons.

But if you genuinely want some info I could beat up one of the small kids this weekend, nick his set of rules and do an analysis.
See if there's anything that's calculable.

[fedr808]

Go do that Oli, is that how you solve all of you problems?

[Oli]

What beat up the small kids?
Nah, it's just that I know for sure some of the younger members of our wargames club will have a set of rules, so I won't need to buy them.
But the calculation and analysis?
It's what I do for a living, among other things

[Nasor]

I was talking about 40K rather than the abortion of space warfare they call Battle Fleet Gothic.


But if you genuinely want some info I could beat up one of the small kids this weekend, nick his set of rules and do an analysis.
See if there's anything that's calculable.

I played it a little years ago, and so far as I remember there's no real way to tell what the ranges are supposed to be. You move your little pewter ships around and shoot at each other, but the weapon rangers are all in terms of inches on the board with no clue about how far an inch is supposed to "really" be. If you knew the speed of the ships you could probably figure out the ranges by comparing movement distances to weapon ranges, but again, the speeds are all in terms of inches on the board rather than m/sec or something.

Although who knows, maybe they have more details now.

I'll agree that it was a terrible, terrible game though.

[Oli]

You can sometimes get the ground scale from clues in the background material that mentions speeds and times.
It's a subtle method, but I've done it before: in both directions.
One reason I'm biased toward Stargunt II (which I recommended in an earlier post) is that I did lot of work for the guy who wrote them (and I'm listed as "technical consultant in the credits )

[Lord Vasago]

It does - WarHammer uses weapons similar to what Trek has already seen - ballistic and projectile weapons, with a few magma/heat based weapons, and a laser based system. Nothing terribly new. Now, WH40K has NEVER seen M/AM warheads, Phasers, or Disruptors...

well it truly sound ST 1 WH40k 0

[Lord Vasago]

because their accuracy is shit, that would be ineteresting WH40k against SW. SW would definitely be boned.

not quit because and i quote you "if your enemy has tons of lasers you're screwed" it there's one thing SW has tons of it are .....euh....Lasers????

[Lord Vasago]

So at 120km in diameter, it was at ~ a mere 500km from the rebel base before initiating firing sequence...

[Lord Vasago]

I still contend the DS would never get into range... fleet or no fleet. And if it did, they'd have Starfleet HQ throwing torpedoes and phaser blasts at them by the boatload.

not a single (exept in the trench) torp is fired at the ds. why ?? maybe because it would have been a waste of ammo ??

[Lord Vasago]

What beat up the small kids?
Nah, it's just that I know for sure some of the younger members of our wargames club will have a set of rules, so I won't need to buy them.
But the calculation and analysis?
It's what I do for a living, among other things

hey can you calculate the distence between the ds and Yavin4 then?

[Oli]

Pass on whatever info you have and I'll give it a go.
I don't have any of my own stuff on SW or ST, since most of my SF stuff is my own work for other people.

[fedr808]

not quit because and i quote you "if your enemy has tons of lasers you're screwed" it there's one thing SW has tons of it are .....euh....Lasers????

Heh, but most of their lasers cant destroy a planet can they? Mine do on a regular basis.I'd love to see SM beat the snot out of some sotrmtroopers.

[fedr808]

Anyways, why doesnt a frigate cruiser or Battlebarge merely just ram a fed ship? They'd come out on top as far as hull durability goes, and probly even shields as well.

[Nasor]

Heh, but most of their lasers cant destroy a planet can they? Mine do on a regular basis.I'd love to see SM beat the snot out of some sotrmtroopers.

So far as I know there are no descriptions of lasers destroying a planet in 40k. Usually when an exterminatus is declared against a planet, they just blow the hell out of the surface to kill everything. Planets can actually be destroyed with special multi-stage cyclonic missiles that burrow into the planet's core and then explode, but cyclonic missiles are rare and hardly ever used. There's usually no point in actually destroying a planet when you can just wipe the surface clean.