Star Wars vs Star Trek

[Saquist]

Saquist, remember - it's NOT all about shear power. It's how you use it...

I don't know really know of course but my guess is that nadion weapons would have the same effect on SG shields that do on any other shield in trek.
We know SW shields are vunerable to the nadion effect because they seam to be plasma based. which would be a very weak physical barrier. Nadions would disrupt that shield easily assuming the plasma is an active component aswell as necessary

Who knows... maybe you could even teleport a torpedo past the Ori shields... we've seen things in SG able to bypass shields (the rings)

The rings are Go'uld Technology...and considered very primitive, they require an energy link or pulse on a massive scale.

The Asgard Beaming Technology was considered to attempt to do the job but to no avail. Even the unshielded Wraith Hive ship are capable of emiting a jamming frequency that prevents transport on to they're ships.

And also - transphasic torpedoes would probably be an issue...

Ah yes, Transphasic torpedoes would be like big Super Naquada Nukes. They would definitely have a huge effect on any Stargate shields. Could you imiagine a scenario where it's the Armored and Intrepid against the Suped up Odyssey from Stargate? Wow.

The fight would come down to 4 ships very 1...That sounds amazing.

Finally - if SGC and the Federation teamed up... Naquadria enhanced warp cores... oooooH!

But what type of enemy could take that kind of punishment!!!

@ Antaran1979

In the Stargate Atlantis episode the City of Atlantis is being attacked by multiple wraith hive ships. Attempting to strike them with "Mark VIII tacticial Nukes (enhanced) Major Shepard comments that the Missle are being intercepted Miles from the Hive ship, visually it doesn't look so far but the Hives are huge.

[Kittamaru]

I wonder if Quantum Torps would be able to affect an Ori vessel...

Or, what about a Plasma Torpedo?

Or even a TriCobalt Device?

If nothing else - Subspace Weapons Rip the bastard clean out of this reality

[Uchiha Madara]

Guys, take it easy, can't we be a civilized when debating?

Despite all the things that yet to be proven about the firepower of Star Wars and Star Trek, about what is canon, and many more, there is something very important that Star Wars have that Star Trek doesn't have, it is speed.

Unless the Star Wars galaxy is minuscule, somehow shrunk or Star Wars time is A LOT longer than Star Trek time, hyperdrive is a lot faster then warp , hyperdrive is a lot warp. In Attack of the Clones, Obi-Wan went from Coursant (Inner Core) to Kamino (Beyond the outer rim) in less then a day. If it is the Federation it would of took atleast a decade. Remember that Obi-Wan was in a Jedi fighter, not in a warship.

It will take quite a while to catch up to Star Wars warships, and by the time the Federation (or whoever) arrives, they will be long gone.

[Saquist]

I wonder if Quantum Torps would be able to affect an Ori vessel...

Or, what about a Plasma Torpedo?

Or even a TriCobalt Device?

If nothing else - Subspace Weapons Rip the bastard clean out of this reality

The problem with the Ori isn't there ships. I don't know if those weapons have any special feature aside from a normal torpedo but the Ori- aren't....physcial beings. They're gods. They use they're influence in this universe to convert.

[Kittamaru]

They're gods... but they've been killed? That doesn't make sense 0o'

[antaran_1979]

In the Stargate Atlantis episode the City of Atlantis is being attacked by multiple wraith hive ships. Attempting to strike them with "Mark VIII tacticial Nukes (enhanced) Major Shepard comments that the Missle are being intercepted Miles from the Hive ship, visually it doesn't look so far but the Hives are huge.

so the wraith use point defence to safeguard from missiles and ori use shields?

this would live the wreight somewhat vulnerable to trek torpedoes, since they are not easy to destroy (eighter because of the warp sustainer or shield or both).

but that info on 1200Mt warhead is usefull. it sais 6 times the strogest warhead on a GCS can't bring down an Ori shield. then it is allso safe to asume that 20 standard GCS torps can't eighter. this will be our absolute minimum. now we need an educated guess. can you recall how many such warheads have scored hits on a singel ship in rapid sucession and still failed to penetrate it?

to make it clear on what i'm getting at, in "Yesterday's Enterprise" a Klingon K'Vort bird of pray (the cruiser sized), got hit by 5 torpedo spread and its shield did not fail. so that is a minimum for that ship. however the leading BoP was hit by several phaser strikes from the main array and it was eventually destroyed. so 4-6 such beams from the main array are in total worth at least as 5 torpedoes, probably more as far as shield penetration goes.

[antaran_1979]

Guys, take it easy, can't we be a civilized when debating?

Despite all the things that yet to be proven about the firepower of Star Wars and Star Trek, about what is canon, and many more, there is something very important that Star Wars have that Star Trek doesn't have, it is speed.

Unless the Star Wars galaxy is minuscule, somehow shrunk or Star Wars time is A LOT longer than Star Trek time, hyperdrive is a lot faster then warp , hyperdrive is a lot warp. In Attack of the Clones, Obi-Wan went from Coursant (Inner Core) to Kamino (Beyond the outer rim) in less then a day. If it is the Federation it would of took atleast a decade. Remember that Obi-Wan was in a Jedi fighter, not in a warship.

It will take quite a while to catch up to Star Wars warships, and by the time the Federation (or whoever) arrives, they will be long gone.

most of the time we are quite civilsed. and SW superiority in FTL has not been disputed. it woul be a major advantage and the key to force projection. the thing we need to determine is how many ships (ISD1&2) would the Empire need to overwealm the UFP counterparts.

[Kittamaru]

so the wraith use point defence to safeguard from missiles and ori use shields?

this would live the wreight somewhat vulnerable to trek torpedoes, since they are not easy to destroy (eighter because of the warp sustainer or shield or both).

but that info on 1200Mt warhead is usefull. it sais 6 times the strogest warhead on a GCS can't bring down an Ori shield. then it is allso safe to asume that 20 standard GCS torps can't eighter. this will be our absolute minimum. now we need an educated guess. can you recall how many such warheads have scored hits on a singel ship in rapid sucession and still failed to penetrate it?

to make it clear on what i'm getting at, in "Yesterday's Enterprise" a Klingon K'Vort bird of pray (the cruiser sized), got hit by 5 torpedo spread and its shield did not fail. so that is a minimum for that ship. however the leading BoP was hit by several phaser strikes from the main array and it was eventually destroyed. so 4-6 such beams from the main array are in total worth at least as 5 torpedoes, probably more as far as shield penetration goes.

Remember - in general, phasers are more effective vs shields and torpedo's vs the hull and armor.

[Saquist]

They're gods... but they've been killed? That doesn't make sense 0o'

Yes, the Ori are the same type of energy creatures as the Ancients.
the Ancients are humanoids that lived a long time ago and found a way to "ascend" to a higher plane of existance. The Ori did not agree with the Ancients methods or NON INTERFERENCE in the material world and chose to manipulate others into worshiping them and converting others to they're cause. The Ancients...an ancient created a way to kill them (Ori) but didn't use it and he ascended leaving the humans in our time to discover it and use it. Only one Ori remains. She recieves power from all those that worship her and because she is the only Ori left she is nearly all powerful.

so the wraith use point defence to safeguard from missiles and ori use shields?

Indeed.

this would live the wreight somewhat vulnerable to trek torpedoes, since they are not easy to destroy (eighter because of the warp sustainer or shield or both).

Indead. shooting down torps hasn't seen on screen but it occurs in the books.

but that info on 1200Mt warhead is usefull. it sais 6 times the strogest warhead on a GCS can't bring down an Ori shield. then it is allso safe to asume that 20 standard GCS torps can't eighter. this will be our absolute minimum. now we need an educated guess. can you recall how many such warheads have scored hits on a singel ship in rapid sucession and still failed to penetrate it?

Those are very expensive Nukes. The Atlantis expedition was given 6 as mines to defend the city. The Daedalus had as many as 13 or fourteen in her arsenal At least enough to take out 2 + 12 Hive ships if it had too but that never happend.

We know Daedalus at least tried to fire her Mark VIII but the missles were just too slow untill they started beaming them directly into the Wraith Hive ships untill they started Jamming.

As we see the Daedalus and the Korolev engage the 4 Ori ships with the rest of the Allied fleet both Earth ships are firing a stead stream of tactical Nukes in launches of a pair at a time. The Ori ships do no ever manuver or dodge. They wait for a time as the 200 megaton bolts from the Goauld Mother ships strike and the Rail Gun fire which was stated to be Mach 5 (1701mph) at 500m in the atmosphere. The Koroleve is destroyed by 3 direct hits from the Main Ori Weapon. Goauld Mothership can't withstand one blast. The Main canon from the Ori strikes the mothership's shields. Some of the strike is deflected but there is more than enough to obliterate the Goauld Motherships.

to make it clear on what i'm getting at, in "Yesterday's Enterprise" a Klingon K'Vort bird of pray (the cruiser sized), got hit by 5 torpedo spread and its shield did not fail. so that is a minimum for that ship. however the leading BoP was hit by several phaser strikes from the main array and it was eventually destroyed. so 4-6 such beams from the main array are in total worth at least as 5 torpedoes, probably more as far as shield penetration goes.

I'll have to do some research on the Ori shield capability .

[Lord Vasago]

They're gods... but they've been killed? That doesn't make sense 0o'

Everyone looks at the Q's as gods but they can be killed as easily as a human u just need Q weapons.

[Gumbias]

I think the deciding factor would be the ability for SGC being able to produce more drones and equipt. there ships with them. In that case SG would put the hammer down on both.

On the subject STvsSW. Imagine an entire Fleet made up of Defiant and Delta Flyer class ships. They would be an unstoppable force against anything the SW universe could muster up.

If you had an attack wing made up of 5 Defiant Class ships and 5 Delta Flyer for taking out the small ships. I would be willing to bet they could take out a SSD in one pass, and on to the next. It would be a devastating blow to the Empire in the first battle. I don't think there is a weapon in SW that could penetrate the Defiants Sheilds, or catch her. Damn that is a hot ship.

[Saquist]

so the wraith use point defence to safeguard from missiles and ori use shields?

Correction:

No. the Wraith do NOT use Point Defense. The Mark VIII were shot down by fighter wings.

[Kittamaru]

Everyone looks at the Q's as gods but they can be killed as easily as a human u just need Q weapons.

Then... obviously that isn't as easy as killing a human... considering EVERY SHOT of a Q-Weapon had supernova like effects on realspace...

[Saquist]

Oh and Gumbias

I think a wing of Defiants would take down the Imperial Star Destroyer in one pass but it would take some time to take down a 17 kilometer long SSD.

[Gumbias]

Alright an SSD may take two passes, but I am willing to bet that after the frist pass it would be nearly defenceless and bleeding.

[Enterprise-D]

Nope they're the same size.

Oops... heh

Yeah thecy grabed the cells, they didn't enter the cells.

That's all they needed to do given the Doctor's parameters.

No it gives them the shape shifting ability, a superior ability to borg nanites.

I grant that the Replicators have shape shifting ability, however it is not because of their "bonds". Tighter bonds would not allow for shape shifting. They have this ability because they are all sentient.

consumption. easy to do when you can eat something inside out.

But assimilation requires only a single Replicator nanite defeated. A single one.

Hey...I'm just going by the facts...lets not stupe to name calling.

LOL aww *hug*

That incident was before the upgrades after the Asgard passed on.
3 Dadelus class ships would tear up 40 Federation ships...100 would be impossible.

No, that's just faith talking...sounding like someone familiar?

Let me just tell you that one shot from the Asgard beam would Destroy a Federation starship...anyone...(except armored Voyager). Those ships in the those videos were far stronger than a Star Destroyer and the same size. Wraith Hive ships are several miles long and they cook them in two or three shots.

I would think that even Voyager could be bested by an Asgard ship, if the Asgard could target Voyager with that slow weapon.

Earth (Tauri) have the exact same weapons and shields.)

So they may be able to withstand the serious punishment of a single Federation starship. Not so sure about 10. Or 40.

Think of it this way. You're saying that those 3 rickety vessels could withstand a Borg Cube that decimated 44 Federation ships at Wolf. Not a fair comparison.

[Uchiha Madara]

I think the deciding factor would be the ability for SGC being able to produce more drones and equipt. there ships with them. In that case SG would put the hammer down on both.

On the subject STvsSW. Imagine an entire Fleet made up of Defiant and Delta Flyer class ships. They would be an unstoppable force against anything the SW universe could muster up.

If you had an attack wing made up of 5 Defiant Class ships and 5 Delta Flyer for taking out the small ships. I would be willing to bet they could take out a SSD in one pass, and on to the next. It would be a devastating blow to the Empire in the first battle. I don't think there is a weapon in SW that could penetrate the Defiants Sheilds, or catch her. Damn that is a hot ship.

Yeah? Ever heard of evidence?

Lets suppose it is true, have you ever heard of Ion Cannons. A rain of ion cannons to disable the ship and finish it with turbolasers. Don't tell me that turbolasers can't destroy a disabled ship, because it is not true.

[Uchiha Madara]

most of the time we are quite civilsed. and SW superiority in FTL has not been disputed. it woul be a major advantage and the key to force projection. the thing we need to determine is how many ships (ISD1&2) would the Empire need to overwealm the UFP counterparts.

I agree, that firepower is still in debate. The problem is people think that just because UFP have computer targeting, it is better. I disagree, it is very likely that the Empire have the ability to use computers, but they don't like using it. Computers can calculate and probably aim better than organics, but do they no how people think? No, they don't. You might argue that computers can remember tactics, but they still don't know how people think. That is the advantage of gunners. Also CIS have droid gunners which is equal to computers, but clones can think more freely. I don't know why CIS use droids instead of gunners, but that is not the point, they don't do it doesn't mean they can't. CIS can, that means so can the Empire. Just it point out.

And also, I am just trying to REMIND people to be civilized, this is a debate not a bar fight here.

[Uchiha Madara]

Alright an SSD may take two passes, but I am willing to bet that after the frist pass it would be nearly defenceless and bleeding.

Dude ever heard of attacking back and IF they need to, they can run?

A SSD have about 1000 heavy turbolasers and 1000 ion cannons, and I didn't count the missiles and the weaker turbolasers and laser cannons.

[Gumbias]

Yeah? Ever heard of evidence?

Lets suppose it is true, have you ever heard of Ion Cannons. A rain of ion cannons to disable the ship and finish it with turbolasers. Don't tell me that turbolasers can't destroy a disabled ship, because it is not true.

Well you can't hit what you can't catch and I am willing to bet that either the Defiant, or Delta Flyer class could easily out menuver the ion cannons then slide right in and destroy them. And I do beleive that a bit back in the post that it was said that a turbo laser could not even penetrate the navigational shields of any UFP ship. And if the ships are all equipt with Regenerative shields and ablative armour forget it swoop in FIRE! Bye Bye Ion cannon, and on with the killin.