Star Wars vs Star Trek

[Kittamaru]

You're comparing old tech to new tech mate. Standard progression... my sources come from here:

http://techspecs.acalltoduty.com/

They use multiple levels of cannon, giving priority to the most cannon and working their way down from there.

[antaran_1979]

episode "Preemptive strike" , gull Evek states the maquis were equiped with photon torpedoes and type VIII phasers, something only a military could have. given the 60-70m maquis raider size and the carassian's surprise it apears that this is hte heaviest phaser one can put on a small vesel.

[antaran_1979]

You're comparing old tech to new tech mate. Standard progression... my sources come from here:

http://techspecs.acalltoduty.com/

They use multiple levels of cannon, giving priority to the most cannon and working their way down from there.

i'm sorry about this mate but only SOME of that data is canon. the ship's external layouts are. and some weapon layouts. but the rest is aperantly heavily fictional.

and the progression of the tech would not be that aperant since the 24th century Miranda and Excelsiors would be refeated to make them competetive with their most likely competitors.

[Saquist]

oh no they've turned on themselves.

[Kittamaru]

episode "Preemptive strike" , gull Evek states the maquis were equiped with photon torpedoes and type VIII phasers, something only a military could have. given the 60-70m maquis raider size and the carassian's surprise it apears that this is hte heaviest phaser one can put on a small vesel.

The Maquis Raider is by no means a Starfleet vessel... it barely compares in power to that of the Peregrine Heavy Fighter 0o'

[Kittamaru]

i'm sorry about this mate but only SOME of that data is canon. the ship's external layouts are. and some weapon layouts. but the rest is aperantly heavily fictional.

and the progression of the tech would not be that aperant since the 24th century Miranda and Excelsiors would be refeated to make them competetive with their most likely competitors.

The Miranda and Excelsiors can't be refit...

It'd be like trying to put the CVN Enterprises Reactor Cores in EVERY Super-Carrier afloat... there is a reason the US Navy Enterprise's slogan is "Eight Reactors None Faster"

And they use as much cannon info as possible. The rest is derived info from on screen evidence, and what has no cannon precidence they attempt to infer (as they state on their site). I know it's not perfect, but we could always go back to Star Destroyer.net... :P

[Kittamaru]

oh no they've turned on themselves.

Lol, no, just I don't like when people try to compare old, antiquated ships with modern designs.

It's like pitting the P-51 Mustang vs an F-14... yeah, you could upgrade the Mustang to make it more potent than it was back in WW2... but there's NOTHING you can do that'd make it match an F-14.

[antaran_1979]

oh no they've turned on themselves.

heheh, i just think puting out false data harms ST's cause more then it helps. well at least agains competent debaters.

[antaran_1979]

The Maquis Raider is by no means a Starfleet vessel... it barely compares in power to that of the Peregrine Heavy Fighter 0o'

but they were equped with military frade weapons never the less. at least in that episode. that's canon.

[antaran_1979]

The Miranda and Excelsiors can't be refit...

It'd be like trying to put the CVN Enterprises Reactor Cores in EVERY Super-Carrier afloat... there is a reason the US Navy Enterprise's slogan is "Eight Reactors None Faster"

And they use as much cannon info as possible. The rest is derived info from on screen evidence, and what has no cannon precidence they attempt to infer (as they state on their site). I know it's not perfect, but we could always go back to Star Destroyer.net... :P

can and have been. heck the Lacota was refited up to the capability of tackling (not nececeraly win) a Defiant. and the Defiant is the first and one of the few dedicated warships UFP has. you may hate the Lacota as much as you want, but the Excelsiors were the "cruiser wings" that covered GCSs during the war. Akiras were just not in great enough numbers (greater then the Nebulas though, to my surprise) and mostly operated solo (not as a part of formation).

[antaran_1979]

Lol, no, just I don't like when people try to compare old, antiquated ships with modern designs.

It's like pitting the P-51 Mustang vs an F-14... yeah, you could upgrade the Mustang to make it more potent than it was back in WW2... but there's NOTHING you can do that'd make it match an F-14.

that's true, but Nova is hardly an F-14 by any standards. it's not even an F-5 (that would be more like Saber). it's more in the likes of a treainer (A4 skyhawk) . in this case the Miranda might be the F4U Corsair and the Exceslior would be like F86. but even this is pushing too far. the truth is fighters don't get ovehauling, ships do. Iowa is a WW2 ship and is still state of the art vessel and the only battleship still afloat. some carriers outhere are 40 years old and will serve well into the 21 century.

[Kittamaru]

but they were equped with military frade weapons never the less. at least in that episode. that's canon.

yes, old military grade weapons. Remember - that raider did near-zero damage to the Cardassian battleship. Peregrine Fighters are able, in a wing of 3 fighters, to cause SEVERE damage to one.

[Kittamaru]

can and have been. heck the Lacota was refited up to the capability of tackling (not nececeraly win) a Defiant. and the Defiant is the first and one of the few dedicated warships UFP has. you may hate the Lacota as much as you want, but the Excelsiors were the "cruiser wings" that covered GCSs during the war. Akiras were just not in great enough numbers (greater then the Nebulas though, to my surprise) and mostly operated solo (not as a part of formation).

Okay, sorry, I worded that poorly. They can not be refit to match current starship designs. I love the Excelsior class myself... but you can't try to say the average current-time Excelsior is ready to go toe-to-toe with, say, Defiant or a Norway class.

Also, recall - Dominion War + Borg Incursions spurned the development of the new ships. If we assume Post-Nemesis numbers, we'd have far more of the new starships and far less of the older ones.

[Kittamaru]

that's true, but Nova is hardly an F-14 by any standards. it's not even an F-5 (that would be more like Saber). it's more in the likes of a treainer (A4 skyhawk) . in this case the Miranda might be the F4U Corsair and the Exceslior would be like F86. but even this is pushing too far. the truth is fighters don't get ovehauling, ships do. Iowa is a WW2 ship and is still state of the art vessel and the only battleship still afloat. some carriers outhere are 40 years old and will serve well into the 21 century.

The Iowa is not state of the art... she was Decommissioned in 1990... she's awaiting donation to a MUSEUM mate

And the WW2 carriers are great - now, pit one of them + their carrier task forces vs the Enterprise Carrier Task Force. Tell me, which one do you think has the better chance of winning? Considering the Enterprise can EASILY outpace even the Tichonderoga class. The Enterprises speed is listed as 35+ knots... now, consider this - the Enterprise can, and has, hit 40 knots in REVERSE during sea trials. I would wager she could safely hit 60+ knots in a pinch. Again, eight reactors, none faster. 2012 will be a sad sad year, as that is when she is scheduled for decomission... and the fuckers in the US Navy C&C don't have any plans to build and/or name a new flagship Enterprise.

[antaran_1979]

yes, old military grade weapons. Remember - that raider did near-zero damage to the Cardassian battleship. Peregrine Fighters are able, in a wing of 3 fighters, to cause SEVERE damage to one.

not old but current. otherwise noone would suspect starfleet involvement. old wepons could be smugled through other chanels. military isue, not so likely. and those raiders were about to bring down the shields oon that ship when E-D intervened.

[antaran_1979]

Okay, sorry, I worded that poorly. They can not be refit to match current starship designs. I love the Excelsior class myself... but you can't try to say the average current-time Excelsior is ready to go toe-to-toe with, say, Defiant or a Norway class.

Also, recall - Dominion War + Borg Incursions spurned the development of the new ships. If we assume Post-Nemesis numbers, we'd have far more of the new starships and far less of the older ones.

noone sais there are no new ship designs, its just that theor numbers are not that great. and some classes are obviously dead ends. how many Norways or Steamruners have you seen around? i'd say by the configuration of those ships they were a part of some light cruiser/patrol ship research by starfleet that went dud, so they were canceled or into low production priority in favor of the flexible Intrepid.

and considering the Lacota's performance and the overall Excelsior survivabilty during the Dominion war i'd say they come only short of modern heavy cruisers like Akira or battlecruisers like Nebula as far combat goes. all those new designs are just that - new. most of them are probably far overingeneered to be counted upon in battle, which is why old proven models were favored by SF.

[antaran_1979]

The Iowa is not state of the art... she was Decommissioned in 1990... she's awaiting donation to a MUSEUM mate

And the WW2 carriers are great - now, pit one of them + their carrier task forces vs the Enterprise Carrier Task Force. Tell me, which one do you think has the better chance of winning? Considering the Enterprise can EASILY outpace even the Tichonderoga class. The Enterprises speed is listed as 35+ knots... now, consider this - the Enterprise can, and has, hit 40 knots in REVERSE during sea trials. I would wager she could safely hit 60+ knots in a pinch. Again, eight reactors, none faster. 2012 will be a sad sad year, as that is when she is scheduled for decomission... and the fuckers in the US Navy C&C don't have any plans to build and/or name a new flagship Enterprise.

ahem, check your facts mate.Iowa was in the gulf war and was refited in 1995. it was only in 2006 that it was desided to be mothballed, but kept in combat rediness. imagine that. a 60 year old ship is still the biggest gun out there and will continue to be for some time. and don't mix the carriers into this. they are a force projection method not combatants themselves. if a WWII carrier could launch mothern fighters it would still be cheaper to field 3 of those instead of 1 Nimitz.

[Kittamaru]

not old but current. otherwise noone would suspect starfleet involvement. old wepons could be smugled through other chanels. military isue, not so likely. and those raiders were about to bring down the shields oon that ship when E-D intervened.

Wait, what? I think we're thinking of two different episodes - I'm thinking first episode of ST: Voyager.

[Kittamaru]

noone sais there are no new ship designs, its just that theor numbers are not that great. and some classes are obviously dead ends. how many Norways or Steamruners have you seen around? i'd say by the configuration of those ships they were a part of some light cruiser/patrol ship research by starfleet that went dud, so they were canceled or into low production priority in favor of the flexible Intrepid.

and considering the Lacota's performance and the overall Excelsior survivabilty during the Dominion war i'd say they come only short of modern heavy cruisers like Akira or battlecruisers like Nebula as far combat goes. all those new designs are just that - new. most of them are probably far overingeneered to be counted upon in battle, which is why old proven models were favored by SF.

They are normally board patrol vessels, an there were MANY of them involved in FC (you see a bunch of destroyed ones in the ship graveyard afterwards, and the Ent-E flys past a burned up Steamrunner)

The Lakota (tis a K mate :P) is one of a kind IIRC. The fact that it had quantum torpedoes is proof of that :P

[Kittamaru]

ahem, check your facts mate.Iowa was in the gulf war and was refited in 1995. it was only in 2006 that it was desided to be mothballed, but kept in combat rediness. imagine that. a 60 year old ship is still the biggest gun out there and will continue to be for some time. and don't mix the carriers into this. they are a force projection method not combatants themselves. if a WWII carrier could launch mothern fighters it would still be cheaper to field 3 of those instead of 1 Nimitz.

1990
January 4 Turret Two memorial plaque unveiled. Œ

January 16 SRA at Norfolk Naval Shipyard. Œ

February 20 Nuclear Weapons closeout Inspection. Œ

April 17 Return to Naval Base Norfolk.Œ

April 19 Turret Two Memorial Service. Memorial plaque dedicated. Œ

May Commanding Officer Captain John P. Moorse, USN Ž

May 25 Marine Detachment deactivates. Œ

June 22 - July 6 Midshipmen summer training. Œ

October 26 USS IOWA decommissioned. Œ

That's taken straight from the US Veterens Association... heh.... not much more "direct" than that mate.

And a WW2 Carrier is a non-threat... mostly because it has no anti-missile systems.

mate, you have to remember - you can ONLY upgrade the equipment so far before the power supply and Command and Control systems fail... at which point it's cheaper to build a new ship than upgrade it any more.