View Poll Results: Which universe would win?

Voters
670. This poll is closed
  • Star Trek

    227 33.88%
  • Star Wars

    285 42.54%
  • Spaceballs

    51 7.61%
  • Farscape

    14 2.09%
  • Dune

    54 8.06%
  • Stargate

    39 5.82%

Thread: Star Wars vs Star Trek

  1. #13441
    kittamaru question for you

    why if they got a enterprise that travel through time don't they just look up how the borg was created en just go back stopping them before they can evolve.
    hey let's call it the 'Terminator' manouvre lmao

  2. #13442
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    It's violate the temporal prime directive - without the Borg, the Federation wouldn't have shaped into what it was. It and it's allies were formed and shaped by the good AND the bad... removing something as big as the Borg threat (which spurred on a LOT of new inventions and advancements) from the timeline would, probably, destroy the Future Federation as we know it.

  3. #13443
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    It's violate the temporal prime directive - without the Borg, the Federation wouldn't have shaped into what it was. It and it's allies were formed and shaped by the good AND the bad... removing something as big as the Borg threat (which spurred on a LOT of new inventions and advancements) from the timeline would, probably, destroy the Future Federation as we know it.
    Which is exactly why it could not be used against a SW invasion. As one could argue the future Federation is a small part of the New Republic or even the Empire.

  4. #13444
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    As one could argue they are... what...? ARE YOU ON FUCKING DRUGS?

    Did George Lucas make Star Trek? NO!

    The Future Federation is NOT in any way part of ANY SW governing body (or any body)!

    Proof? Proof is easy -

    Future-Federation ships, like their present-day counterparts, don't need super-massive energy cores or gigantic multi-kilometer ships to do their functions.

    A single Starship can complete a multitude of scientific, diplomatic, courier, medical, supply, or combat missions of various types without any real type of re-configuration. I'd like to see an ISD perform a SCIENTIFIC mission, or be used for MEDICAL transport.

  5. #13445
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    It's violate the temporal prime directive - without the Borg, the Federation wouldn't have shaped into what it was. It and it's allies were formed and shaped by the good AND the bad... removing something as big as the Borg threat (which spurred on a LOT of new inventions and advancements) from the timeline would, probably, destroy the Future Federation as we know it.
    i know that's why i call it the 'terminator' manouvre. and thats why they never should have a enterprise that can timetravel. It's way to dangerous. lmao

  6. #13446
    Quote Originally Posted by fedr808 View Post




    Shields. One thing trekkies forget, star wars shields do not block physical attacks. That's why the proton torpedo could pierce the shield of the death star, the shield blocks lasers not torpedos. think about it, if the shields do block physical attacks, with the shear power of the death star the shield should have annihalated the fghter when it got into the trench.

    So when push comes to shove, A massive borg cube can out run an ISD.
    The torpedo did not pierce the shield. The fighters where moving between the shield and the deathstar. BTW you have to know the DS weakspot and a enormously skilled fighter pilot.
    oh yeah did you see vaders SSD hit the ds? and yet it is slichtly damaged ? that's armor for ya
    BTW the ds is not so slow as you claim it to be. It can move through hyperspace like any other ship. prove? try to go from alderan to yavin at just simple lighspeed it would take u years.
    so hyperspace does NOT equal lichtspeed. for example anakin and padme travel from naboo to tatooine in a few minutes. although they are in the same quadrant it would still take several years at lightspeed.
    now u can argue who is faster but keep in mind to look at it logicly. don't go downscaling just to make ur point or you'll turn in to Scott *no offence scott*

  7. #13447
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post

    1.Actually unless there has been a special ruling the Clone Wars series falls in the realm of TV Specials in the realm of non-canon.

    2.However in the novelizations of the movies SW fleets use massive ammounts of Electronic Warfare. There's more jamming going on there there is power coming from a ST vessels warp drive. Targeting computers and scanners are largely useless in such situations. A Federation vessel would be lucky to hit itself in such an environment.

    3.As for the Energy ratings supplied by Doctor Curtis, approved by Lucas and Lucasfilm they are completely supported by all forms of valid canon. The refutation of someone who is not part of Lucasfilm means less than nothing.
    1.oooh i guess Ep1,3 and 6 are non canon too anything to help your case mate!!!!

    2.they use so much jamming that those gunners can't hit a mountain sized ship from 2km away. heck, the field guns during the independance war were more acurate.

    3. so the movies are not valid canon, but Saxton is? the Ewok genocide is? the milenia stagnant tech is?

  8. #13448
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post

    Actually in the VERY FIRST episode Q claims to be putting mankind on trial. As time goes on he explains that the Q are interested, albeit slightly in mankinds development.


    and the same episode would end with the Imperials senticed guilty and failing the test (shoot first and shoot some more later)

  9. #13449
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Vasago View Post
    The problem with voyager is that it's al alone with no way to get spareparts. so when something goes wrong they have to fix it with what the can find. So Voyager is never up to date. but i think at the end voyager starts to fix itself or something.

    allthough i do like looking at TNG i still prefer Voyager because it stays somewhat the same instead of TNG where they are weak in one episode and powerfull in the next.

    The last spinoff can't intrest me though. The enterprise is more advanced than the later ones go figure

    Of all Startrek spinoffs i like Deepspace9 the most. that spacestation is just awesome. Especially the episode where they are threatend by a whole Klingon fleet. the sheer firepower that DS9 can produce is just freaking awesome. I do believe it could hold a long time against SW. and thats just thumbs up.
    i prefer DS9 too

  10. #13450
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Vasago View Post
    The torpedo did not pierce the shield. The fighters where moving between the shield and the deathstar. BTW you have to know the DS weakspot and a enormously skilled fighter pilot.
    oh yeah did you see vaders SSD hit the ds? and yet it is slichtly damaged ? that's armor for ya
    BTW the ds is not so slow as you claim it to be. It can move through hyperspace like any other ship. prove? try to go from alderan to yavin at just simple lighspeed it would take u years.
    so hyperspace does NOT equal lichtspeed. for example anakin and padme travel from naboo to tatooine in a few minutes. although they are in the same quadrant it would still take several years at lightspeed.
    now u can argue who is faster but keep in mind to look at it logicly. don't go downscaling just to make ur point or you'll turn in to Scott *no offence scott*
    i have to agree on the subject of DS's near invulnerbility to conventional attacs. the bes way to take it down is some sort of sabotage or subterfuge. unless you throw a big blunt object on it. but it has to be BIG. real big.

  11. #13451
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antaran_1979 View Post
    Hellblade, that isoton/megaton ratio may be the final clue we needed, but van you elaborate on the process of getting it? the episode and possibly some qoutes or screenshots? i'd like to double check that myself if possible.
    i did some calcs on my break. here is what i've got.

    the asteroid is roughly cubical. if the enterance is 80m wide then the asteroid is roughly 440X640X270m in size or thar's a volume of 75.5 million cubic meters equivalent of sphere with a diameter of 524m. Wong's calculator indicates that the required energy to vaporise this (detonanted at its center) is about 553Mt for hard granite and 1.1Gt for Fe-Ni.

    two things need refining.
    1.the location of the explosion (i need to revew the episode), in ex a surface explosion would result in only 26-29% of the energy actually hitting the asteroid.

    2.the landing dock. if the bugships land in the gaping hole then the size is corect. if it lands on the platform, thing need to be scaled up.

    i'm not availabe this night, but if anyone can psot caps from the explosion, frame by frame i'd be gratefull.

    anyways if the above is corect i got that 1isoton=6.15Mt for granite and 12.23MT for nickel iron (for a blast that started deep beneath the surface close to the center).

  12. #13452
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    some to think of it enreached ultritium might not be what is used when defining an explosive yeald of a weapon. maybe its comparative of say, 100 tons of TNT VS 100 tons of C4. but the Mt part of the asessment could still be valid, allthough at absolute minimum. after all, that blast was an overkill.

  13. #13453
    Um, going back to the opening post. What about the Q? I mean, if you're going to talk about Borg and this or that then wouldn't the Q easily put the whole of any other anyone in the palm of their hand? In short there is nothing in SW or the other Scifi that are as powerful as the Q.

  14. #13454
    I'm back! Warp 8 Mr. Worf! Enterprise-D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Which is exactly why it could not be used against a SW invasion. As one could argue the future Federation is a small part of the New Republic or even the Empire.
    Kitt was not explicit enough for your obtuse and stubborn opinions unfortunately. The Temporal Prime Directive can be violated in the event of the destruction of the UFP (as seen in ST:VOY). If by some miracle the SW Empire appears to the Admiralty to be winning, they would approve a temporal correction. This would apply both to the UFP of Picard's era all the way to the future UFP.

  15. #13455
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    Um, going back to the opening post. What about the Q? I mean, if you're going to talk about Borg and this or that then wouldn't the Q easily put the whole of any other anyone in the palm of their hand? In short there is nothing in SW or the other Scifi that are as powerful as the Q.
    There are indeed powerful scifi races/entities that can combat the Q. Unfortunately for the Warsies, this does not include the Jedi (ascended or not). That's why they scream "uncle" when the Q Continuum is mentioned.

    As Dr. Who says: "It..is..defended!"

  16. #13456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Lol, watching the new clone warps episode...

    I know EXACTLY how Trek would win:

    Hack the navi-Computers of all wars ships with hyperdrives

    Have them drive into a moon.

    Lol, dumbass... clone wars IS cannon though... and it certainly is NOT helping War's case at all.
    Yes, I actually rolled my eyes when I saw that contrived plan. Many things wrong there:

    1. How is it that the first droid that came to inquire as to the hyperdrive's repair was forgotten?

    2. Since when does a machine say "I GUESS (the repairs are done)" rather than at least read the f***ing screen!

    3. Why does a navigational computer have precedence over the 'brakes' (reverse thrusters)!

    4. Shouldn't there a system override that would prevent the ship from leisurely and nonchalantly cruising into i dunno a whole moon? Such an override need not depend on the navigational computer, but depend on say proximity sensors...gravity sensors...the viewscreen f***ing camera!

    There should be a zeroth problem too. How is it that 40 odd machines could not get a bead to shoot one little Jedi (Obi Wan)? Granted it's funny to see him dodge hundreds of bolts and use the rolling droids as bowling balls. But...needless to say, my evaluation of the droids stands...they SUCK as combatants!

  17. #13457
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Vasago View Post
    i know that's why i call it the 'terminator' manouvre. and thats why they never should have a enterprise that can timetravel. It's way to dangerous. lmao
    They are needed because not all species feel the same (Kremlin Time Ship for example)

  18. #13458
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    ok, on the ultritium issue, ultritium IS standard industrial explosive (non nuclear), but there is allso a high yeald version of it (STTNG-Night Terrors). unfortionatly the diference in yealds is not stated.

  19. #13459
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Actually unless there has been a special ruling the Clone Wars series falls in the realm of TV Specials in the realm of non-canon.
    Excuse me Mr. Star Wars Producer TW Scott. I didn't realise that the Executive Producer George Lucas signed his name to non canon series. You are clearly using excuses and cop outs every time you are cornered.

    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    However in the novelizations of the movies SW fleets use massive ammounts of Electronic Warfare. There's more jamming going on there there is power coming from a ST vessels warp drive. Targeting computers and scanners are largely useless in such situations. A Federation vessel would be lucky to hit itself in such an environment.
    The novelizations are printed matter specials, and therefore falls into the realm of non-canon.

    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    As for the Energy ratings supplied by Doctor Curtis, approved by Lucas and Lucasfilm they are completely supported by all forms of valid canon. The refutation of someone who is not part of Lucasfilm means less than nothing.
    Take a look at the Clone Wars credits. The Lucasfilm logo is planted on it. George Lucas is listed as executive producer (along with Catherine Winder - exec producer at Lucasfilm Animation). The sarcastic remarks of someone who WISHES he was part of Lucasfilm mean less than nothing.



    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    I don;t care what you care about. this is a debate using the canon of both universes as facts. Again CLone Wars series is along the line of TV special non canon.
    Then stick to your own claims of canon arguments.


    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Excuse me, but are you completely deaf and blind?
    There are no battleship shields. Shields on a battlecruiser appear to be limited to docking bay shields and secure internal systems. Perfect example I posted about a thousand pages ago where young Anakin is berated for not noticing that Grievous' shields are still up. SHIELDS you say. He then fires on the massive cruiser with his fullstop sized fighter...the bolt LANDS on hull plating, shorts out controls and the dock shields...clearly visible...fall.

    Tsk...Scotty...



    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Actually in the VERY FIRST episode Q claims to be putting mankind on trial. As time goes on he explains that the Q are interested, albeit slightly in mankinds development.
    This does not prove that the Q evolves from humans. This may also indicate that the Q are anticipating another elder race (like the Organians or the Travellers). Or perhaps the Q are looking for a vacation when humanity evolves far enough. You have assumed way too much.


    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Actually they would welcome the challenge and change it would bring to the galaxy. It would also bring a fresh host of new things for them to explore. Since they did not stop the Dominion war they won't stop the imperial war. As for the AI thing, SW has gone beyond the positronic centuries ago. They mass produce AI that can do everything from hold a real conversation to theorhetical physics.
    The Q are also omniscient. They already knew that the Dominion War would not be the cause of universal downfall hence would not intervene. They would also know IF the SW v ST face off causes universal disaster and WOULD step in at that point. However, since we have established already that the UFP can stop the Empire, there is not even a need to use the Q trump card.

    Positronic circuits are responsible for Commander Data's ability to hold real conversations to analysis of theoretical physics. They are also responsible for him acting as a lawyer, a captain, a Starfleet marine, controlling an entire starship by himself, gaining interest in hobbies, learning music and art, and finally learning self sacrifice. I'd say SW has not even begun to scratch the surface of positronics, since their battle droids can't freaking aim a gun!


    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    But they never have before. So most likely a Human invasion on humans would warrant a few bets at the most.
    This is a universal infarction. Humans from one universe invading humans from another. This is an upset in the order of the multiverse, and the Q would intervene were this to threaten to become permanent. Get...over...yourself.

  20. #13460
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterprise-D View Post
    Excuse me Mr. Star Wars Producer TW Scott. I didn't realise that the Executive Producer George Lucas signed his name to non canon series. You are clearly using excuses and cop outs every time you are cornered.
    He signed his name to the christmas special and the Ewok TV movies and those are noncanon as far as he is concerned.

    The novelizations are printed matter specials, and therefore falls into the realm of non-canon.
    Incorrect Lucas holds novelizations second only to movies themselves. Need to pay attention.

    Take a look at the Clone Wars credits. The Lucasfilm logo is planted on it. George Lucas is listed as executive producer (along with Catherine Winder - exec producer at Lucasfilm Animation). The sarcastic remarks of someone who WISHES he was part of Lucasfilm mean less than nothing.
    And these are also found on all the Lucasarts games as well, but they are explicitly noncanon as per Lucasfilm policy.

    Then stick to your own claims of canon arguments.
    Iam. It is just I have a better understanding of what is and isn't canon.

    There are no battleship shields. Shields on a battlecruiser appear to be limited to docking bay shields and secure internal systems. Perfect example I posted about a thousand pages ago where young Anakin is berated for not noticing that Grievous' shields are still up. SHIELDS you say. He then fires on the massive cruiser with his fullstop sized fighter...the bolt LANDS on hull plating, shorts out controls and the dock shields...clearly visible...fall.
    Exactly, but according to canon the Ship had been in combat for at least half an hour over Coruscant. Especially since Obi-wan and Anakin had to come in form out of system to engage in their rescue plan. Anakin had not been to see Padme in months remember. So obvious the majority of battleships shields had been battered down in preparation for this mission. A less likely explnation is perhaps the ship did not have shields, as we know other large vessels in Star Wars carry them.

    Tsk...Scotty...
    What? You're the one proving your lack of research.


    This does not prove that the Q evolves from humans. This may also indicate that the Q are anticipating another elder race (like the Organians or the Travellers). Or perhaps the Q are looking for a vacation when humanity evolves far enough. You have assumed way too much.
    You have assumed even more. I never stated Humanity evolved into the Q directly. I claimed it as a possibility. I stated they have an interest in humanity. But remember the Empire has Humans as well.


    The Q are also omniscient. They already knew that the Dominion War would not be the cause of universal downfall hence would not intervene. They would also know IF the SW v ST face off causes universal disaster and WOULD step in at that point. However, since we have established already that the UFP can stop the Empire, there is not even a need to use the Q trump card.
    Actually the Q have not shown any prediliction towards omniscience. They do seem to know a lot and can calculate quite a bit, but they do not actually read the future. However they do have a strict noninvolvement clause when it comes to primatives species. If it is a fight amongst primatives they will not interfere, however if one side is an advanced being such as themselves they just might.

    As for the UFP stopping the Empire, mathematics and canon prove you wrong at every turn. You can believe what you want, but the math and fact clearly favor SW winning.

    Positronic circuits are responsible for Commander Data's ability to hold real conversations to analysis of theoretical physics. They are also responsible for him acting as a lawyer, a captain, a Starfleet marine, controlling an entire starship by himself, gaining interest in hobbies, learning music and art, and finally learning self sacrifice. I'd say SW has not even begun to scratch the surface of positronics, since their battle droids can't freaking aim a gun!
    Well, yes positronic circuits have made a rather remarkable android in ST. Of which there is one on his level. There is NO way to make more. Infact the most recent attempt was a failure. As for self sacrifice Data would have known the 4 laws of robots. I say for becuase I add in Chetter Hummins 0th law. Hpwever I will hold that Data is an idiot. He could have easily used a Transporter from the shuttlecraft or captains yacht and beamed out picard and in overloaded phaser to save the day.

    However I will also point out R2-D2 a simple production line astromech. Just a run of the mill droid of which there are thousands can perform his programmed duties, understand at least a dozen languages even if he only speaks one. Can actually hack a computer, play chess, disobey orders, give himself orders and many things even Data would envy.

    Now as for battle Droids. These machines fire much more accurately than the typical soldier of today. In battles with the Jedi of course they miss as the Jedi can sense the shot before it happens and against the Clonetroopers they actually fair pretty well. I have yet to see anything that tells me they are not decent shots.

    This is a universal infarction. Humans from one universe invading humans from another. This is an upset in the order of the multiverse, and the Q would intervene were this to threaten to become permanent. Get...over...yourself.
    Actually since ET visited Earth it is very much the same universe. Just a different galaxy. Hell the opening of Star Wars tells in best

    A long, long time ago, in a glaxy far, far away.

    So the Q would be sitting on their thumbs, or given how Q act egging the imperials on a bit.

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