View Poll Results: Which universe would win?

Voters
670. This poll is closed
  • Star Trek

    227 33.88%
  • Star Wars

    285 42.54%
  • Spaceballs

    51 7.61%
  • Farscape

    14 2.09%
  • Dune

    54 8.06%
  • Stargate

    39 5.82%

Thread: Star Wars vs Star Trek

  1. #13041
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Are... you kidding me?

    Try to conduct an electrical current thru thin air... now try to conduct it thru an ocean... now thru solid copper... what works better?

    Okay... now try this

    Try conducting it thru liquid sodium chloride...

    Now thru Solid, Liquid, and Gaseous oxygen... see what conducts better...

    Okay try conducting electricty through Neon gas. Now do it through Glass. Got the point now. It's not the state of the material but the chemical properties of the material.

  2. #13042
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    Actually there is a small delay in the explosion of the planet. You can see when you slow it down the interaction of a shield on the death star beam. Over exposure is not a valid argument in this thread.

    The less than 5 FRAME delay is simply so the eyes of the viewers, at normal framerates, can see the beam impact occur, instead of simply seeing what looks like a beam and boom. Remember... human eye = ~30 FPS. That's how subliminal messages work... so quick you don't see em. That's why real time movies are normally shot in approx 30 FPS... though some higher-end ones are in 60 FPS. You can tell the difference of higher FPS... but the higher the value, the less the difference. LAW OF DIMINISHING RETURNS.
    Are you willfully ignoring the rules here. You are using an outside explnation for an in universe observation. the movies are presented as if what happened in them is EXACTLY the events as they occured. There is no FPS delay. There is the delay of the shields holding back the blast for a fraction of a second.


    Script is not a valid argument in this thread as we are going by finished product. Lucas went to the trouble of making a very obvious shield interaction and agreed with the novelization that Alderaan had shields. therefore its was always story line.

    Except the script is... you know... kind of the plot and story and all that fluff...

    and no, he didn't go thru the trouble of making a shield interaction... because there IS NONE
    Script is a tool used to help create the final product. Would you say an apple is manure? Would you say Angelfood cake is baked scrambled eggs with some flour and sugar? No, becuase the final product is something different, it's more than the sum of the parts.

    Aslo you can clearly see the interactions in question in frame by frame, just like you can see sheils interactions in Star Trek.


    What? Calling somebody on a blatantly ad hominem attack is pretentious? You have rather shaky ethics my friend.

    No, you make calls like that very liberally even though your first few HUNDRED posts here were ad-hominem attacks. ”
    Actually and ad hominem attack is when you use the insult as your rebuttal. I provided an actual rebuttal and added insults as a bonus. You will not however i have largely stopped do that. Even though I am given ammuniton every time the trekies post.

  3. #13043
    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    It's not radical speculation. First of all it is mentioned in Novelization. Backed up by Empire Strikes Back and Return of the jedi. Second Visualizations clearly support some sort of defenses that were over powered by the Superlaser. Third given the common interaction of SW shields against weapon such visualization is not needed, yet still exists.
    I think it is radical speculation. You had to invoke specialized technology to even detect the pause. And even worse no movie substaniates a planetary shield in any way.

    Empire Strikes Back only a "small area of the Hoth system"
    Return of the Jedi was over the space of a small moon. A projected field. No sign at all they could handle a field as large as a planet.

    The planetary shield exist only in the EU which encompasses the movie novelizatioin in this case.

  4. #13044
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    I think it is radical speculation. You had to invoke specialized technology to even detect the pause. And even worse no movie substaniates a planetary shield in any way.

    Empire Strikes Back only a "small area of the Hoth system"
    Return of the Jedi was over the space of a small moon. A projected field. No sign at all they could handle a field as large as a planet.

    The planetary shield exist only in the EU which encompasses the movie novelizatioin in this case.
    Actually you are are not looking at the whole picture.

    In ANH the viewr can appreciate at normal speeds that there is a slight puase from beam hit to destruction of the planet. Also note the Princess says "We have no weapons." not "We have no defenses."

    In ESB a small base designed to be abandoned at a moments notice had a massive energy shield that could deflect any bombardment. The shield was massive enough that landing troops took some time to reach the outer primeters of the base. A perimeter far enough from the hangars than craft doing in excess of 500 mph took several minutes (story time) to reach. A shield large enough that after hours of battle (condensed to a few minutes for movie goers) general Veers had to make a 20km shot to reach the power generator near the center of the sheild. Now if an adhoc disposable base has a shield generator than can create hundred km diameter shield, why is it impossible to think a hevily popoulated world would not have much larger shields.

    In ROTJ the shield generator on a temporary prefab base is shown to be protecting a 1900km diameter space station with full coverage and protect itself with a several hundred kilometer radius shield as well. Remember the Rebels had to use an secuirity code to fool the Empire into lowering the shield so they could even land. So again a portable and disposable base was protecting a vastly larger area.

    Since these events support the idea that they can protect areas of planets it is not hard to figure out that several dozen or hundred such generators could protect an entire world with overlapping coverage. So the information in the movies does in fact support the EU concept of Planetary Shields.

  5. #13045
    I'm a viewer Scott. I saw it. I detected no significant hesitation of the beam. You know I would gladly give that to you if the the planet not just exploded...but balistics say that was an act of pentration not a blast.

    For instance, when Enterprise E destroyed the Sphere in First Contact. The hesitatioin was caused by the Quantum torpedos penetrating to the core and thus...the Explosion out ward in all directions.

    If they're were a significant pause I would have concluded there was a shield. But there isn't. I have to allow for time it would take to penetrate through miles of mantle, core and crust. If I don't then I have to conclude that the beam was powerful enough to penetrate through to the other side of the planet. And it wasn't. Thus the hesitation in the beam is logical.



    The Empire Strikes Back shield must have been small by my estimation. Somewhere near a 50 mile maybe 75 mil radius. Walks move at about 15 miles per hour. That would mean at least 5 hours before they reached the center of the field.

    The Return of the Jedi was odd. In ESB they could walk through the field but not in this movie.

    The problem with your speculation is that if it was that easy if the technology was that abundant and deployable they would have protected all of Hoth to prevent the Empire from landing at all and allowing them the time to fully prepare and leave.

    If these movies do support planetary shields then it shows up no where else in the visual canon. If you wish to speculate that they can from the old trilogy I can understand but it's only speculation. We still never see a planetary field over Coruscant or Naboo who were just as advanced and really could have used it. Naboo seemed more concerned with offense and defense than Alderaan was. Alderaan had "NO DEFENSES". a Defense would be propperly described as a shield. Yet you propose that it had one anyway with the most flimsy of evidence...but Naboo with a royal defense force doesn't have one.

    Inconsistent is hardly the word for the speculation you're proposing.

  6. #13046
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    No. We do not assume they could not unless they fired on it and it was not destroyed. Empire Strikes back gives ample reasoning why the gas Giant might be left intact. While movies are the highest cannon, to refute the possibility of the Death Star destroying Yavin IV it would have had to fire on it and fail to destroy it.
    yet you say that because we don't see it in star trek, they cannot do it...

    Kind of a double standard there Mr Scotch

  7. #13047
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Okay try conducting electricty through Neon gas. Now do it through Glass. Got the point now. It's not the state of the material but the chemical properties of the material.
    Uhm... Neon is a noble gas. It's not exactly "conductive" either...

    My point is, Gas molecules are spaced further apart than liquid and solid are even closer...

  8. #13048
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Are you willfully ignoring the rules here. You are using an outside explnation for an in universe observation. the movies are presented as if what happened in them is EXACTLY the events as they occured. There is no FPS delay. There is the delay of the shields holding back the blast for a fraction of a second.


    No... I'm allowing a little bit of COMMON SENSE into the conversation.

    Play the movie at full speed - there is perhaps a fraction of a millisecond delay. That makes sense as the beam, which is OBVIOUSLY slower than light, burrows into the planets core and detonates it.


    Script is a tool used to help create the final product. Would you say an apple is manure? Would you say Angelfood cake is baked scrambled eggs with some flour and sugar? No, becuase the final product is something different, it's more than the sum of the parts.

    No... it is the sum of the parts. Period... angelfood cake is not scrambled eggs you dolt. It's over a dozen egg whites and a handful of other ingrediants whipped and folded until they are VERY light, then baked.

    Aslo you can clearly see the interactions in question in frame by frame, just like you can see sheils interactions in Star Trek.

    No, you can't. Because they are not there. In Star trek you can see the interactions without a frame-by-frame... because they exist. What you see in the frame-by-frame is called a "hold", which allows the human eye to see the impact without it being a single frame long... which the human eye could not CONCIOUSLY see!


    Actually and ad hominem attack is when you use the insult as your rebuttal. I provided an actual rebuttal and added insults as a bonus. You will not however i have largely stopped do that. Even though I am given ammuniton every time the trekies post.

    No... an ad hominem attack is actually when you simply attack the person INSTEAD of using a rebuttal, which is what you do. I attack you WHILE using a rebuttal, because it's just that easy. And no, you haven't stopped... every post of yours I read is an insult to my intelligence.
    0 for 3... again.

  9. #13049
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Actually you are are not looking at the whole picture.

    In ANH the viewr can appreciate at normal speeds that there is a slight puase from beam hit to destruction of the planet. Also note the Princess says "We have no weapons." not "We have no defenses."

    She was lying... duh? You REALLY think they'd build a giant shield and not some weapons? Shields are worthless on their own... and if they did do that, then that makes things even Easier for Star Trek... they'll just match the shield frequency and simply shoot through em like they aren't there.

    In ESB a small base designed to be abandoned at a moments notice had a massive energy shield that could deflect any bombardment. The shield was massive enough that landing troops took some time to reach the outer primeters of the base. A perimeter far enough from the hangars than craft doing in excess of 500 mph took several minutes (story time) to reach. A shield large enough that after hours of battle (condensed to a few minutes for movie goers) general Veers had to make a 20km shot to reach the power generator near the center of the sheild. Now if an adhoc disposable base has a shield generator than can create hundred km diameter shield, why is it impossible to think a hevily popoulated world would not have much larger shields.

    I'm sure they were doing 500MPH in the forest... yeah... right. I doubt it you dolt. And that was hardly a disposable base. As for why it's impossible - simple. Generating an EM shield requires exponentially more power as it's size grows. Also - that was a BUBBLE shield, not a fully encompassing shield.

    In ROTJ the shield generator on a temporary prefab base is shown to be protecting a 1900km diameter space station with full coverage and protect itself with a several hundred kilometer radius shield as well. Remember the Rebels had to use an secuirity code to fool the Empire into lowering the shield so they could even land. So again a portable and disposable base was protecting a vastly larger area.

    What makes you think it was portable or disposable?

    Since these events support the idea that they can protect areas of planets it is not hard to figure out that several dozen or hundred such generators could protect an entire world with overlapping coverage. So the information in the movies does in fact support the EU concept of Planetary Shields.

    Again... 0 for 3... oh wait, 0 for 4. Not doin too well scotch.
    Man... he's crazier than I thought.

  10. #13050
    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    It's not radical speculation. First of all it is mentioned in Novelization. Backed up by Empire Strikes Back and Return of the jedi. Second Visualizations clearly support some sort of defenses that were over powered by the Superlaser. Third given the common interaction of SW shields against weapon such visualization is not needed, yet still exists.
    Defenses... not a shield, defenses

  11. #13051
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flectarn View Post
    Defenses... not a shield, defenses
    "We are a peaceful palnet. We have no weapons!" Princess Liea What other defenses would you suggest Alderaan had?

    The visuals show a clearly shielded planet resisting the Superlaser for a fraction of a second. The fact that in the rerelease that you can see and intact weather pattern and ocean under a translucent green glow as the superlaser hits Alderaan is proof enough. If there was no shielding, there would have been obviously atmospheric and oceanic changes to the surface that would have been all too obvious.

  12. #13052
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    yet you say that because we don't see it in star trek, they cannot do it...

    Kind of a double standard there Mr Scotch
    actually, since in Star Trek they have never shown a capability like what was mentioned and ONLY the TV shows and movies are cannon, unless you see it, it dfoesn;t exist works for Star Trek.

    Star Wars combines Movies, Series, and EU and since the Death Star EASILY destroyed a shiedled planet and Tarkin, who actually knew the capabilities of the Death Star if not it's weaknesses' believed destroying the Yaving gas giant was feasible in novelization, then we are forced to conceded it is technically feasible.

    BTW before you start, this does not mean a Photon Tor[pedo can vaporize a 300m asteroid as we see clearly in that particular incident that Kim was completely wrong. Visuals override commentary where the two obviously disagree.

  13. #13053
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Uhm... Neon is a noble gas. It's not exactly "conductive" either...
    Tell that to the makers of neon lights. It does conduct, better than glass.

    My point is, Gas molecules are spaced further apart than liquid and solid are even closer...
    But you are missing my point. Conductivity is mostly chemistry. Energy state has very little to do with conduction compared the chemistry of the material.

  14. #13054
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    Originally Posted by TW Scott
    Are you willfully ignoring the rules here. You are using an outside explanation for an in universe observation. the movies are presented as if what happened in them is EXACTLY the events as they occured. There is no FPS delay. There is the delay of the shields holding back the blast for a fraction of a second.

    No... I'm allowing a little bit of COMMON SENSE into the conversation.

    Play the movie at full speed - there is perhaps a fraction of a millisecond delay. That makes sense as the beam, which is OBVIOUSLY slower than light, burrows into the planets core and detonates it.


    So in your mind the beam takes longer to borrow less that half the diamet of the planet than it did to travel five times it's diameter. The beam was no slower than the beams of Star Trek so we are still talking as near to C as possible. That much of a slow down in the solid material is not possible without some evidence of penetration, ejecta, and massive changes in atmosphere and oceans. All of which seam complete normal under the shield in the rerelease. The only viable explantion is shield.


    Script is a tool used to help create the final product. Would you say an apple is manure? Would you say Angelfood cake is baked scrambled eggs with some flour and sugar? No, becuase the final product is something different, it's more than the sum of the parts.

    No... it is the sum of the parts. Period... angelfood cake is not scrambled eggs you dolt. It's over a dozen egg whites and a handful of other ingrediants whipped and folded until they are VERY light, then baked.

    Missing the point completely. Of course why did I expect anything different.


    Aslo you can clearly see the interactions in question in frame by frame, just like you can see sheils interactions in Star Trek.

    No, you can't. Because they are not there. In Star trek you can see the interactions without a frame-by-frame... because they exist. What you see in the frame-by-frame is called a "hold", which allows the human eye to see the impact without it being a single frame long... which the human eye could not CONCIOUSLY see!

    First of all, in Star trek shield interations take upwards of a sencond but never less than .25 second. Which is why they are visible. If they happened at the speeds they do in Star Wars, which is much more realistic, they would barely register to the human eye. You'd have to slow them down. Also of note Star Wars shield interactions are not as obvious as Star Trek's even in atmosphere.

    Actually and ad hominem attack is when you use the insult as your rebuttal. I provided an actual rebuttal and added insults as a bonus. You will not however i have largely stopped do that. Even though I am given ammuniton every time the trekies post.

    No... an ad hominem attack is actually when you simply attack the person INSTEAD of using a rebuttal, which is what you do. I attack you WHILE using a rebuttal, because it's just that easy. And no, you haven't stopped... every post of yours I read is an insult to my intelligence. ”

    0 for 3... again.


    Again you did not read my post. Not surprised. You said the exact same thing i have, except of course you got it wrong. I have continously given fact laden rebuttals exposing the real truth of the debate. I add in insults as a sort of seasoning. There are times however an argument is so inanely stupid that just exposing it to light of day refutes it. You have not had many of these, thankfully. But I suppose you realized this which is why you kept score giving your final score as 0 for 3, though actually it was 0 for 4
    Last edited by TW Scott; 09-16-08 at 12:37 AM.

  15. #13055
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    In ANH the viewer can appreciate at normal speeds that there is a slight puase from beam hit to destruction of the planet. Also note the Princess says "We have no weapons." not "We have no defenses."

    She was lying... duh? You REALLY think they'd build a giant shield and not some weapons? Shields are worthless on their own... and if they did do that, then that makes things even Easier for Star Trek... they'll just match the shield frequency and simply shoot through em like they aren't there.

    Actually, the Princess was not lying. Alderaan was known as a peaceful world with no weapons. It was why the Caamasi moved a colony there. Also Star Wars shields do not suffer from the frequency issue that Star Trek vessels do. They have better control over their field emitters and have no need to flicker their shields to fire through them like WWI planes firing through the propellers.


    In ESB a small base designed to be abandoned at a moments notice had a massive energy shield that could deflect any bombardment. The shield was massive enough that landing troops took some time to reach the outer primeters of the base. A perimeter far enough from the hangars than craft doing in excess of 500 mph took several minutes (story time) to reach. A shield large enough that after hours of battle (condensed to a few minutes for movie goers) general Veers had to make a 20km shot to reach the power generator near the center of the sheild. Now if an adhoc disposable base has a shield generator than can create hundred km diameter shield, why is it impossible to think a hevily popoulated world would not have much larger shields.

    I'm sure they were doing 500MPH in the forest... yeah... right. I doubt it you dolt. And that was hardly a disposable base. As for why it's impossible - simple. Generating an EM shield requires exponentially more power as it's size grows. Also - that was a BUBBLE shield, not a fully encompassing shield.

    Hoth does not have forests. So obviously you are mistaken once again. And the rebel base was celarly disposable. It was carved right out of the ice. It was ready to be evacced at moments notice. Finally it doesn't matter if it was a bubble imagine a network of bubble shields. arrange them right and what do you have?


    In ROTJ the shield generator on a temporary prefab base is shown to be protecting a 1900km diameter space station with full coverage and protect itself with a several hundred kilometer radius shield as well. Remember the Rebels had to use an secuirity code to fool the Empire into lowering the shield so they could even land. So again a portable and disposable base was protecting a vastly larger area.

    What makes you think it was portable or disposable?

    The entire base was hardly larger than a Strike Cruiser. Meaning it would fit in the hangar bay of a standard ISD. The base seemed to be dropped inot location and protected ostly by the fact you had to get past the shields. this is a temporary base and likel prefab in modules. As in EU they explain is done with many Imperial bases.


    Since these events support the idea that they can protect areas of planets it is not hard to figure out that several dozen or hundred such generators could protect an entire world with overlapping coverage. So the information in the movies does in fact support the EU concept of Planetary Shields.

    Again... 0 for 3... oh wait, 0 for 4. Not doin too well scotch. ”

    Man... he's crazier than I thought.


    I know you are not doing well. I wonder why you keep score at this point.

  16. #13056
    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post

    First of all, in Star trek shield interations take upwards of a sencond but never less than .25 second. Which is why they are visible. If they happened at the speeds they do in Star Wars, which is much more realistic, they would barely register to the human eye. You'd have to slow them down. Also of note Star Wars shield interactions are not as obvious as Star Trek's even in atmosphere.
    Scott, Nothing about a energy shield is remotely realistic. Why do you argue from the position that one makes more sense to another. This is sci fi.



    Again you did not read my post. Not surprised. You said the exact same thing i have, except of course you got it wrong. I have continously given fact laden rebuttals exposing the real truth of the debate. I add in insults as a sort of seasoning. There are times however an argument is so inanely stupid that just exposing it to light of day refutes it. You have not had many of these, thankfully. But I suppose you realized this which is why you kept score giving your final score as 0 for 3, though actually it was 0 for 4
    An insult is never has any place in a reasonable discussion. While Kitt choses to do as he wishes, and I can not support his insults you are encouraging it with your attitude and your own insults.


    Also Star Wars shields do not suffer from the frequency issue that Star Trek vessels do. They have better control over their field emitters and have no need to flicker their shields to fire through them like WWI planes firing through the propellers.

    Physics says every energy has a frequency and an amplitude modulation
    If you are going to campion Star Wars as realistic I think you should try and be consistent on this point.

    Otherwise...you're lying to yourself and us. Kitt is right I think you're trying to insult our intelligence. So, untill you post something with more logic to it I can only assume you're here to argue with Kitt. I'm happy to let you do so.

  17. #13057
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    "We are a peaceful palnet. We have no weapons!" Princess Liea What other defenses would you suggest Alderaan had?

    The visuals show a clearly shielded planet resisting the Superlaser for a fraction of a second. The fact that in the rerelease that you can see and intact weather pattern and ocean under a translucent green glow as the superlaser hits Alderaan is proof enough. If there was no shielding, there would have been obviously atmospheric and oceanic changes to the surface that would have been all too obvious.
    Obviously, one of their weapons was a lying Princess... duh?

  18. #13058
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    actually, since in Star Trek they have never shown a capability like what was mentioned and ONLY the TV shows and movies are cannon, unless you see it, it dfoesn;t exist works for Star Trek.

    Star Wars combines Movies, Series, and EU and since the Death Star EASILY destroyed a shiedled planet and Tarkin, who actually knew the capabilities of the Death Star if not it's weaknesses' believed destroying the Yaving gas giant was feasible in novelization, then we are forced to conceded it is technically feasible.

    BTW before you start, this does not mean a Photon Tor[pedo can vaporize a 300m asteroid as we see clearly in that particular incident that Kim was completely wrong. Visuals override commentary where the two obviously disagree.
    *chuckles* There you go with your double standard... I would LOVE to see you in court... you'd get your ass handed to yourself.

  19. #13059
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Tell that to the makers of neon lights. It does conduct, better than glass.



    But you are missing my point. Conductivity is mostly chemistry. Energy state has very little to do with conduction compared the chemistry of the material.
    Valance electrons are what ultimately determines the conductivity of a material... and neon is conductive in neon lights thanks to a starter element...

  20. #13060
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Originally Posted by TW Scott
    Are you willfully ignoring the rules here. You are using an outside explanation for an in universe observation. the movies are presented as if what happened in them is EXACTLY the events as they occured. There is no FPS delay. There is the delay of the shields holding back the blast for a fraction of a second.

    No... I'm allowing a little bit of COMMON SENSE into the conversation.

    Play the movie at full speed - there is perhaps a fraction of a millisecond delay. That makes sense as the beam, which is OBVIOUSLY slower than light, burrows into the planets core and detonates it.


    So in your mind the beam takes longer to borrow less that half the diamet of the planet than it did to travel five times it's diameter. The beam was no slower than the beams of Star Trek so we are still talking as near to C as possible. That much of a slow down in the solid material is not possible without some evidence of penetration, ejecta, and massive changes in atmosphere and oceans. All of which seam complete normal under the shield in the rerelease. The only viable explantion is shield.

    I don't know what you are watching scotch... but it took (using the best copy I have on my PC and counting frame by frame) About 1/5th as many frames for the planet to detonate as it did for the beam to reach the planet...

    Script is a tool used to help create the final product. Would you say an apple is manure? Would you say Angelfood cake is baked scrambled eggs with some flour and sugar? No, becuase the final product is something different, it's more than the sum of the parts.

    No... it is the sum of the parts. Period... angelfood cake is not scrambled eggs you dolt. It's over a dozen egg whites and a handful of other ingrediants whipped and folded until they are VERY light, then baked.

    Missing the point completely. Of course why did I expect anything different.

    No, just proving you wrong... AGAIN

    Aslo you can clearly see the interactions in question in frame by frame, just like you can see sheils interactions in Star Trek.

    No, you can't. Because they are not there. In Star trek you can see the interactions without a frame-by-frame... because they exist. What you see in the frame-by-frame is called a "hold", which allows the human eye to see the impact without it being a single frame long... which the human eye could not CONCIOUSLY see!

    First of all, in Star trek shield interations take upwards of a sencond but never less than .25 second. Which is why they are visible. If they happened at the speeds they do in Star Wars, which is much more realistic, they would barely register to the human eye. You'd have to slow them down. Also of note Star Wars shield interactions are not as obvious as Star Trek's even in atmosphere.

    That's because A) Star wars shields go down within the first few shots and B) trek shields spread the incoming fire among the entire shield, allowing more generators to take the force... duh.

    Actually and ad hominem attack is when you use the insult as your rebuttal. I provided an actual rebuttal and added insults as a bonus. You will not however i have largely stopped do that. Even though I am given ammuniton every time the trekies post.

    No... an ad hominem attack is actually when you simply attack the person INSTEAD of using a rebuttal, which is what you do. I attack you WHILE using a rebuttal, because it's just that easy. And no, you haven't stopped... every post of yours I read is an insult to my intelligence. ”

    0 for 3... again.


    Again you did not read my post. Not surprised. You said the exact same thing i have, except of course you got it wrong. I have continously given fact laden rebuttals exposing the real truth of the debate. I add in insults as a sort of seasoning. There are times however an argument is so inanely stupid that just exposing it to light of day refutes it. You have not had many of these, thankfully. But I suppose you realized this which is why you kept score giving your final score as 0 for 3, though actually it was 0 for 4

    Only problem is, you're wrong and too stubborn to admit it. 98% of the people left active here have agreed with us - no shield. 99.99999% of the people I've asked (friends, family, random people at school... yes... I've gone THAT FAR to prove you wrong) Said NO SHIELD. What more do you want? Lucas to waltz into your house, beat you with a mackeral, and say "BITCH THERE IS NO SHIELD!!!"?

    BTW - I have your superlaser right here!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmRZGuICDqw

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