Star Wars vs Star Trek

[Cody]

What makes you say that...

224,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Joules.

That is the sheer electrical output needed to overcome the Gravitational Binding Energy of earth.

That's far more than ANY ship in Trek or Wars can put out...

Just from adding up the shots from a 100+ TT weapons should equal that in a short amount of time. And that's from a single gun, whereas an ISD-I has over 40-60 of these banks.

[Kittamaru]

You realize that you couldn't "add" up to that... you'd need to output that kind of energy... instantly. one shot.

Consider this - a 5 million isoton torpedo in Voyager can obliterate an entire solar system... we're talking multiple AU, not parsecs or KM like the max range of the DS Superlaser...

[Cody]

None of those long range calcs matter, as the short range variations show a major discrepency...

and Star Trek: Enterprise SUCKS as a show... hell, in TOS, they STATE when phasers came around, and it was almost 200 years AFTER Enterprise! Yet in Enterprise, they have phasers mid-season 3!

Actually, TOS and Enterprise are exactly 95-99 years apart. And Enterprise's phasers were phases-canon, which were a fraction of the output of a 2265 phaser.

[Kittamaru]

Re-read the supposed timeframe in Enterprise (or have they changed it since the first season originally aired?) They are given hand phasers and eventually upgrade to shields and shipborne phasers midway thru season 3.

However, these things dont' EXIST yet!

[Cody]

You realize that you couldn't "add" up to that... you'd need to output that kind of energy... instantly. one shot.

Consider this - a 5 million isoton torpedo in Voyager can obliterate an entire solar system... we're talking multiple AU, not parsecs or KM like the max range of the DS Superlaser...

Isotons isn't much, as on the the prefix table:

iso 10 Exponent 0

"Do you see where "iso" falls in that table? It stands for 10^0, which is one! If we go by dialogue and modern units (the way Trekkies keep insisting), a 25 isoton weapon is equivalent to just 25 tons of TNT, or 0.1 TJ! You Trekkies insist on assuming that I'm being uncharitable to your side by disregarding SI unit dialogue in the canon episodes, but in fact, I am being enormously charitable to your side. If we insist on accepting Star Trek dialogue with modern units, we have no choice but to conclude that photon torpedoes are good for less than 1 TJ of energy, and that the biggest weapon in the entire Borg inventory is a 5 megaton bomb! Too bad, so sad; I guess it turns out that the Borg have less firepower than Pakistan."

[Kittamaru]

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Isoton

[Kittamaru]

I know it's stupid, but it's not a literal measure of power as much it is a measure of amount of explosive material

*shrugs* Hey, don't ask me, I didn't write this stuff

[Cody]

Re-read the supposed timeframe in Enterprise (or have they changed it since the first season originally aired?) They are given hand phasers and eventually upgrade to shields and shipborne phasers midway thru season 3.

However, these things dont' EXIST yet!

They aren't Phasers, but a early variant of it. But Enterprise does crap on the Time line of TOS a lot. Enterprise was a good show, but when you compare it to the rest of ST, it sucks.

[Kittamaru]

They aren't Phasers, but a early variant of it. But Enterprise does crap on the Time line of TOS a lot. Enterprise was a good show, but when you compare it to the rest of ST, it sucks.

Exactly - take Enterprise largely out of the Equation...

Then again, there IS the Star Wars Christmas Spectacular... heh... we could add that in if you don't wish to disregard Enterprise.

[Cody]

I know it's stupid, but it's not a literal measure of power as much it is a measure of amount of explosive material

*shrugs* Hey, don't ask me, I didn't write this stuff

Voyager is in my personal Guiness records for being the show to brake science the most.

[Cody]

Exactly - take Enterprise largely out of the Equation...

Then again, there IS the Star Wars Christmas Spectacular... heh... we could add that in if you don't wish to disregard Enterprise.

I never saw the Christmas Special, so I wouldn't know, but it DID introduce Boba Fett.

[Sardonic Crisis]

i agree. does the rest of the dune offer more clues about what they consider to be "ignition" of the core. is ti a raise in core's temperature or a chain reaction on some (atomic/molecular/subatomic) level?

I'm not aware of anything cited beyond the quote from Dune Messiah. I'm guessing the explosion into the core results in it expanding and erupting through the various plates and effectively splitting the planet apart slowly. Like the unstable genesis planet.

EDIT:
Either way, it gives Dune a formidable weapon in combat. The only thing that restrained their use before was the great convention and plus it was thought that they were saved (house atomics that is) for use if humanity was ever attacked from the outside.

Now, for everyone out there. How do you think about gigaton blasts ripping through your ships? And remember that these are shaped charges which are considerably more powerful than conventional atomics since the payload of regular ones expand spherically depleting the energy output.

1 stone burner = 15 photon torps or 7 to 8 quantum torps
and this is just a modest estimation.

[Kittamaru]

Remember - real life physics don't always apply here... this is Star Trek and Star Wars, Science Fiction and Science Fantasy respectively.

The ultimate question is this:

We have shown a GCS to be roughly on par with an ISD... the big difference in Trek and Wars is logistical speed... Warp vs Hyperdrive... factor in Travelers, and now Quantum Slipstream... now that oddity is balanced.

[Cody]

Please, please, PLEASE delete that site from your bookmarks and your memory... Wong is TERRIBLY biased and, as Saquist can tell you, his mathematical skills are questionable at best!

He consistently assumes worst case scenario for Star Trek (going as far as to say 300 Megatons would obliterate the Ent-D's shield...) and exaggerates the Wars figures (including your DS Hypermatter Reactor number)

The problem with that number - tell me, what kind of electrical distribution system does the Empire use? Looking at "damage" scenes, it appears to be normal, copper, wire... not too high tech, and not able to sustain the outputs you are suggesting!

As 118MT is a Quantum torpedo, 300MT seems a good number to get rid of the E-D ships. Probably a little higher, about 350.

If Wong is biased, you should see DarkStar and JMSpock. JM contradicts himself a lot, saying "Anything that moves in space and is operated" is a starship, yet saying the Death Star is not a Starship.

I have yet to see these 'low tech' scenes yet.

I would erase Wong's bookmark if you delete DarkStar, because he argues with both staff of Paramount and Lucas Films about various things...

[Cody]

Remember - real life physics don't always apply here... this is Star Trek and Star Wars, Science Fiction and Science Fantasy respectively.

The ultimate question is this:

We have shown a GCS to be roughly on par with an ISD... the big difference in Trek and Wars is logistical speed... Warp vs Hyperdrive... factor in Travelers, and now Quantum Slipstream... now that oddity is balanced.

GCS?

Hyperdrive IS faster, no matter how you put it. Warp 9.99997 equals 200,000 times c, yet a slow Hyperdrive is a million times c, or more.

[Flectarn]

NO, I AM SAYING THIS: Just because a very strong race attacks the Trek universe doesn't mean that Trek acts any different! The Feddies wouldn't form an alliance with the Romulans, the Borg would still attack everyone else, AND Q WOULD NOT HELP BECAUSE HE HATES THE FEDDIES, AND HE WOULD PROBABLY WANT THE EMPIRE TO RULE!

Err... The Romulans and Federation have allied before. and why do you think Q hates the federation? and certainly based on the Trial of Humanity stuff, the federations looking a lot better than the empire.

[Kittamaru]

As 118MT is a Quantum torpedo, 300MT seems a good number to get rid of the E-D ships. Probably a little higher, about 350.

If Wong is biased, you should see DarkStar and JMSpock. JM contradicts himself a lot, saying "Anything that moves in space and is operated" is a starship, yet saying the Death Star is not a Starship.

I have yet to see these 'low tech' scenes yet.

I would erase Wong's bookmark if you delete DarkStar, because he argues with both staff of Paramount and Lucas Films about various things...

A lot of what he argues about makes sense... when Dialogue doesn't match Visuals, what do you go with?

Run the numbers that DarkStar has and see if you get the same results. When I did it, I came in slightly under what his were all around, but he was assming best case scenarios and not taking into account the 5% inefficiency I slapped around.

[Cody]

Err... The Romulans and Federation have allied before. and why do you think Q hates the federation? and certainly based on the Trial of Humanity stuff, the federations looking a lot better than the empire.

The Feds and Romulans allied in the Dominion war because the Feds tricked them into it.

The Federation is communist, plus Q hates nice things like republics.

[Kittamaru]

GCS?

Hyperdrive IS faster, no matter how you put it. Warp 9.99997 equals 200,000 times c, yet a slow Hyperdrive is a million times c, or more.

GCS = Galaxy Class Starship

Warp 9.99 is roughly 7,912c

Warp 9 is, however, 1,516 c

Warp 9.9999 is 199,516 c


Warp 10 is infinite speed... and the Ent-D took that with ease when the Traveller interfaced with the ship.

According to Voyager, though, Quantum Slipstream is equal to around warp 81,250. No, that is NOT a typo... WARP 81 THOUSAND.

Figure out what that would be please... I don't care to do the math :P

[Cody]

A lot of what he argues about makes sense... when Dialog doesn't match Visuals, what do you go with?

Run the numbers that DarkStar has and see if you get the same results. When I did it, I came in slightly under what his were all around, but he was assming best case scenarios and not taking into account the 5% inefficiency I slapped around.

He doesn't take the EU into account, he is so stubborn he doesn't listen to rebuttals, and a bunch of other things.

You should check this page: http://www.stardestroyer.net/mrwong/...x.php/Darkstar
Look, even if you hate SDN.

Besides, why are we arguing about ST VS SW when the vast majority of the internet, including Spacebattles, has accepted Wars will win?