View Poll Results: Which universe would win?

Voters
670. This poll is closed
  • Star Trek

    227 33.88%
  • Star Wars

    285 42.54%
  • Spaceballs

    51 7.61%
  • Farscape

    14 2.09%
  • Dune

    54 8.06%
  • Stargate

    39 5.82%

Thread: Star Wars vs Star Trek

  1. #11581
    That which cannot be known Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkywalkerJedi View Post
    It is a real blackhole. You have no proof to deny that. The Falcon flown in the Maw Cluster. Maw Cluster is made by Centerpoint's super super stong gravitational field. It is a real blackhole in any shape or from.
    No, it isn't. There is a reason for this: To form a black hole requires an INSANE amount of energy, to the point that, if Centerpoint could ACTUALLY generate this kind of power, it would be incredibly easy for the Federation, and indeed, anyone with a simple tricorder, to find this energy source.

    You have, honestly, no idea how much sheer power we are talking about.

    And, also, an energetic blast will NEVER create a black hole - the reason they are so rare is that a very specific set of events must happen to form one.

    What centerpoint creates are called Quantum Disturbances - quasi black holes that do not have the true nature of a black hole, but bend light and destroy material. It's like a very deep gouge in the fabric of the universe, but without the "hole" of a black hole.

  2. #11582
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Uhm... yes they would. If you can DIGITIZE a person and put EVERYTHING back at the sub atomic level... you know damn well EXACTLY what ever basic component of said person is and what it does...
    This is what the Federation will do.
    " Oh, it is just another species of humanoids, nothing big. " and they will ignor it.

  3. #11583
    That which cannot be known Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Jedi, here's the thing -

    Unless you can provide proof a Wars ship can cross the Trek barrier, which was made by Q, then we can't assume they can simply do it.

    We have already PROVEN why Centerpoint and the Galaxy Gun could never hit a Trek ship... if a damn TurboLaser misses a capital ship 6km+ LONG that isn't MOVING, then how in the world could you hit a 700 meter ship doing 2,200 meters per second?

    Force < Q, already proven time and again

    And Scott, it's Trek vs Wars... travelers and Weasley and the Q included. It's ALL of Trek vs ALL of Wars, or each side acting as they really would.

    If you want to do each side, it'd be Federation/Romulans/Klingons/Vulcans/Gorn/Hydrans/Lyrans/ISC/Orion Pirates/Rebels vs Empire+ a few of the Empires allies maybe? vs Borg vs Species 8472 with the Q all laughing int he background and waiting for the "great war" to end before setting everything back to normal.

  4. #11584
    That which cannot be known Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkywalkerJedi View Post
    This is what the Federation will do.
    " Oh, it is just another species of humanoids, nothing big. " and they will ignor it.
    No, they won't.

    If you have paid attention to trek, even when it is just another humanoid, they generally try to find out what exactly it is. If they can't, they throw the person in quarrentine.

    HOWEVER

    As they would be enemies, they'd simply wipe the pattern buffer/beam them to the brig/ beam them into space, etc... so in the end it wouldn't matter worth a damn.

  5. #11585
    To the whole midichlorian thing. Here is what the Dune universe would do:

    First there would not likely be straight out war with SW first... no, Dune civilization would look at every weakness every bit of evidence that would grant an advantage. One of those advantages would be for the bene gesserits to go ahead and send breeding mistresses to the star wars galaxy to breed force sensitives into the Dune universe. Now with the bene gesserit propensity for controlling their biological makeup and the required mental capacity to do so along with spice enhanced midichlorians.... who do you think would be better force users... the jedi/sith or the bene gesserit?

    The bene gesserits show capabilities even without the force that would make the jedi/sith wonder what they got into. Telepathy? The bene gesserit don't need it... they read your mind and your actions by studying minutae. Prescience? The bene gesserits had a breeding program to create the perfect prescient and succeeded. Knowledge? The bene gesserits have knowledge that stretches back to the first of their ancestral lines. A bene gesserit will know how to counter any trick in the book... oh... and imagine if they got a hold of one force sensitive human in the SW galaxy and made a baby girl.... she would have the knowledge of any force sensitives in the girl's ancestry. Do not go on about the force with Dune... we counter it too easily.

    As to the argument that midichlorians exist in every universe. that is total BS! Of everyone in either ST or Dune the bene gesserits prove that notion false. They know everything about their biological makeup and they have never mentioned anything to the effect of sentient life within their cells. Instead through the spice agony they awaken the cellular knowledge within their DNA and remember thousands upon thousands of lives into the past... you would think that they would remember something to the effect of midichlorians swimming around inside them.... but no such thing... hmmm.... maybe they don't really exist in other universes then, imagine that!

  6. #11586
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sardonic Crisis View Post
    To the whole midichlorian thing. Here is what the Dune universe would do:

    First there would not likely be straight out war with SW first... no, Dune civilization would look at every weakness every bit of evidence that would grant an advantage. One of those advantages would be for the bene gesserits to go ahead and send breeding mistresses to the star wars galaxy to breed force sensitives into the Dune universe. Now with the bene gesserit propensity for controlling their biological makeup and the required mental capacity to do so along with spice enhanced midichlorians.... who do you think would be better force users... the jedi/sith or the bene gesserit?

    The bene gesserits show capabilities even without the force that would make the jedi/sith wonder what they got into. Telepathy? The bene gesserit don't need it... they read your mind and your actions by studying minutae. Prescience? The bene gesserits had a breeding program to create the perfect prescient and succeeded. Knowledge? The bene gesserits have knowledge that stretches back to the first of their ancestral lines. A bene gesserit will know how to counter any trick in the book... oh... and imagine if they got a hold of one force sensitive human in the SW galaxy and made a baby girl.... she would have the knowledge of any force sensitives in the girl's ancestry. Do not go on about the force with Dune... we counter it too easily.

    As to the argument that midichlorians exist in every universe. that is total BS! Of everyone in either ST or Dune the bene gesserits prove that notion false. They know everything about their biological makeup and they have never mentioned anything to the effect of sentient life within their cells. Instead through the spice agony they awaken the cellular knowledge within their DNA and remember thousands upon thousands of lives into the past... you would think that they would remember something to the effect of midichlorians swimming around inside them.... but no such thing... hmmm.... maybe they don't really exist in other universes then, imagine that!
    Then the the Bene Gesserit wake up and realize they very well can't do their usual tricks. Jedi, Sith and Aing-Ti would sense the intention of a bene gesserit breed mistress before she even got to the planet. They would realize that their perfect prescient is a child compared to the average Jedi or Sith, let alone an Aing-ti monk. Now if by some miracle it did happen and a baby girl did develop, and had a similiar experience to Paul's sister, there is at least a fifty percent chance the child would choose the Force user side over the Bene Gesserit. And given that many Force users hate being manipulated, the chance goes up.

    As for trying to read what a Jedi or Sith is going to do by watching the minutae is pointless as a Jedi or Sith surrenders themselves to the force in combat. They have no clue what they are going to do until it is done. So trying to read intentions is beyond pointless.

    And remember only a few people thought the midichlorian were sentient or even quasi sentient. In fact Luke Skywalker, arguably the greatest Jedi ever, had no knowledge of the midichlorians at all and he performed feats no other jedi or Sith have even attempted.

    However the point is moot, either every universe gets to use their powers in the rival galaxy or none do. Want the Bene Gesserit to have the weirding way, then you must deal with Telepaths and the Force Sensitives. There is no picking and choosing.

  7. #11587
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Jedi, here's the thing -

    Unless you can provide proof a Wars ship can cross the Trek barrier, which was made by Q, then we can't assume they can simply do it.

    We have already PROVEN why Centerpoint and the Galaxy Gun could never hit a Trek ship... if a damn TurboLaser misses a capital ship 6km+ LONG that isn't MOVING, then how in the world could you hit a 700 meter ship doing 2,200 meters per second?

    Force < Q, already proven time and again

    And Scott, it's Trek vs Wars... travelers and Weasley and the Q included. It's ALL of Trek vs ALL of Wars, or each side acting as they really would.

    If you want to do each side, it'd be Federation/Romulans/Klingons/Vulcans/Gorn/Hydrans/Lyrans/ISC/Orion Pirates/Rebels vs Empire+ a few of the Empires allies maybe? vs Borg vs Species 8472 with the Q all laughing int he background and waiting for the "great war" to end before setting everything back to normal.
    Many ships have been destroyed attempting cross the barrier. Even with shields up the barrier damage many system on the Enterprise. The Kelvan lost a force of ships, the Federation lost the Valiant 20 years before.

    But it's not important since no GFFA ship has ever left the GFFA Galaxy. They couldn't plot a course any where...Frankly it's like someone is punishing the entire galaxy... What kind of stupidity is a hyperspace disturbance? I mean really....The Star War's story line will for ever be stuck in perpetual war.

  8. #11588
    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    Many ships have been destroyed attempting cross the barrier. Even with shields up the barrier damage many system on the Enterprise. The Kelvan lost a force of ships, the Federation lost the Valiant 20 years before.
    The Dune ships will have the easiest time crossing the galactic barriers since they effectively skip the barrier anyway... hell they even can skip universal barriers.

    But it's not important since no GFFA ship has ever left the GFFA Galaxy. They couldn't plot a course any where...Frankly it's like someone is punishing the entire galaxy... What kind of stupidity is a hyperspace disturbance? I mean really....The Star War's story line will for ever be stuck in perpetual war.
    The name is Star WARS afterall

  9. #11589
    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Then the the Bene Gesserit wake up and realize they very well can't do their usual tricks. Jedi, Sith and Aing-Ti would sense the intention of a bene gesserit breed mistress before she even got to the planet. They would realize that their perfect prescient is a child compared to the average Jedi or Sith, let alone an Aing-ti monk. Now if by some miracle it did happen and a baby girl did develop, and had a similiar experience to Paul's sister, there is at least a fifty percent chance the child would choose the Force user side over the Bene Gesserit. And given that many Force users hate being manipulated, the chance goes up.
    You know that telepathy can be blocked with sufficient mental acuity. Plus there would be no one for the jedi/sith to read... the bene gesserit could just grab a random person who has midichlorians that the star wars galaxy would never miss.

    The child would not be an abomination like alia. probably a normal child but raised as a bene gesserit initiate who goes through the spice agony like anyone else in the order. The saying in Dune was that once you were a bene gesserit you would always be a bene gesserit.... jessica even went back to them in the end.

    As for trying to read what a Jedi or Sith is going to do by watching the minutae is pointless as a Jedi or Sith surrenders themselves to the force in combat. They have no clue what they are going to do until it is done. So trying to read intentions is beyond pointless.
    Actually, they both are reactive in premise... jedi react to what the force tells them and bene gesserit react to what the person tells them... in a sense its a stalemate on who has the upperhand but psychologically messing with an opponent, thats a different story... bene gesserit are too good at that and would most likely push the jedi off their reactive posture.

    And remember only a few people thought the midichlorian were sentient or even quasi sentient. In fact Luke Skywalker, arguably the greatest Jedi ever, had no knowledge of the midichlorians at all and he performed feats no other jedi or Sith have even attempted.
    All I'm saying is that the bene gesserit would know if midichlorians were a part of them. Because they are not mentioned I say they don't exist in the Dune universe.

    However the point is moot, either every universe gets to use their powers in the rival galaxy or none do. Want the Bene Gesserit to have the weirding way, then you must deal with Telepaths and the Force Sensitives. There is no picking and choosing.
    I wasn't saying the force couldn't be used. I was saying that certain tricks wouldn't work... like the jedi mind trick because it relies on influencing midichlorians in another person. Its the same as if a bene gesserit used Voice on an alien from ST or SW... it wouldn't work because they have a different instinctual heritage than humans. The bene gesserit attempting it would have to study the species extensively (years) to even get past a joe-blow down the street alien.

    The point is that there are limitations to which each side will be successful at. The weirding way is purely physical and mental which would not meet such limitations. Neither would the force sensitive's use of telekinesis. however, a jedi trying to read the force to determine where the bene gesserit will move would have severe limitations... there are no midichlorians to communicate with in the bene gesserit but they could read how the force reacts around the sister and get a sense for the general direction she will move. Get my point?

  10. #11590
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Kittamaru;1853523]
    Quote Originally Posted by SkywalkerJedi View Post

    And no, SC ARMOR doesn't regenerate... the shields sure as hell do
    Infantry have shields.

  11. #11591
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Fine, we'll just wipe the pattern buffers and be DONE with it.

    Now they simply cease to exist, good game.
    Here you go, he is one with the force. He is a force ghost and can still interfer, and he is invincible.

  12. #11592
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Originally Posted by SkywalkerJedi
    So can every single Indictor class. Star Wars will just shoot the moon instead.

    Sure, why not destroy it and cause untold damage to the planet from the shockwave, the debris falling down, etc... and an Interdictor is a might bit LARGER than a Galaxy... the Galaxy class moving a MOON 100x larger than it is one hell of a feat. An interdictor moving a moon 20x larger than it is nothing to write home about

    Indictors can pull ships out of hyperspace, even the stars in the center of the galaxy can't do that. There is something called planetary shields, so it would be of no concern.

    You can't jump to hyperspace will a planetary gravity well, but you can stay in it even if it is a netron star. As for Death Star, it is acully a gravity well lock on ,because there is no way to identify the diffrence with a small freighter like the Falcon.

    That's great... then you cannot run from a Trek ship while tractored. Hence the whole ARGUMENT. We don't care about pulling you OUT of hyperspace... we just won't let you get INTO it to escape.

    Then they call reinforcments, then the Galaxy-Class is as good as dead. You can't stop reinforcements from comming, and scince hyperdrive is alot faster, Republic reinforments will come faster.

    Indictors have stronger gravity wells then a star. Anyways reinforcements will arrive in miniuts or even seconds.

    If this is true, then they would cause EVERY piece of space debris with a few hundred kilometers to zoom towards the interdiction field... try again mate.

    They don't just leave it on full power 24/7. They are patrol ships in areas thats usally empty.
    Next time try better arguments.

  13. #11593
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    1) That's my point - depending on where you hit the Jedi depends on if and how well he can recover.

    2) If what you say is true, then why couldn't he simply take over Lukes mind? Why couldn't he, oh I dont' know, simply CRUSH the Rebel fleet with a wave of his hand like Exhar Khune could? Why couldn't he do a NUMBER of things? Why, of ALL people, did he loose a fight to Obe Wan? If he's THAT strong, then damn... vassels of the force are kind of weak...
    1) Again I said full potencial. And his suit weakened his powers, and he is only 20 when he got the suit and 40 when he died

  14. #11594
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    GFFA does have a barrier. It's called the Hyperspace disturbance. The Galaxy Gun nor Centerpoint could fire through it. Nor could it readily be said that the weapons could penetrate the Galactic Barrier.

    According to the Wookiewiki
    The Intergalactic Void was the region of space between the Known Galaxy and other galaxies, such as the Yuuzhan Vong galaxy. The void is a vast darkness, where no stars shine. The Yuuzhan Vong's worldship convoy crossed the void to leave their galaxy and come to the known one. Because the dovin basals could not properly lock onto any point in the Galaxy, the Yuuzhan Vong were forced to travel at sublight speed. How long this journey lasted is unknown, but it is believed to have lasted several millennia. It was in the void that the Yuuzhan Vong nearly destroyed themselves, as lack of resources caused several worldships to die, while Domain and Caste competition were taken to the extreme.
    Hyperdrive don't need any stars in order to work. I said the Galactic Federation of Free Alliances don't own the galactic barrier, the Chiss does. First there is two ways to get out of the galaxy:
    1. Through Vector Prime
    2. Using the Force
    3. Use Sub-light entill the got out of the barrier



    Quarantine is quarantine.
    If you don't know what it means I can provide a link.
    I do know what it is.




    And yet I didn't say any of that.
    You said that the Force won't work in Milky Way, because nobody here ( that is before Star Wars scout ships comes ) have midicorians.



    No thank you If you couldn't post it its not worth the time.
    It is a short page, anyways I can provide proof, check the Behind the Scence, and the first paragragh.


    If that is what you believe.
    And that is true.

  15. #11595
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    1) Probably because Voyager hasn't had a chance to resupply and repair systems for... something along the lines of 8 YEARS... 8 YEARS of constant fighting with unknown and undiscovered species in a quadrent where they have no chance to resupply? it's only a little scout ship man...

    2) No, a black hole can't crush a star system - it can't CRUSH anything. It simply makes it CEASE to EXIST. It sucks it in and, like magic, it disappears. What happens once it crosses the event horizon, we dont' know.
    I ment, it can't suck a system in a second, or even a star. The Millienium Falcon is just a light freighter and it got in a balckhole cluster.

  16. #11596
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    The way it is written, it simply sounds like the Falcon got out of RANGE before the tractor could lock onto it... this makes Wars tractors kind of strange because it means they don't "aquire" a target a full force, like a Trek tractor beam...
    They got a lock on and it went to hyperspace.

  17. #11597
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Uhm... yes they would. If you can DIGITIZE a person and put EVERYTHING back at the sub atomic level... you know damn well EXACTLY what ever basic component of said person is and what it does...
    The Federation will be thinking " Why does these midiclorians have massive energy readings? Mabey it's just a race that can use telephathic or telekenisis powers."

  18. #11598
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    No, it isn't. There is a reason for this: To form a black hole requires an INSANE amount of energy, to the point that, if Centerpoint could ACTUALLY generate this kind of power, it would be incredibly easy for the Federation, and indeed, anyone with a simple tricorder, to find this energy source.

    You have, honestly, no idea how much sheer power we are talking about.
    Centerpoint have that kind of power. All they have to do is to rip a hole in the universe.

    And, also, an energetic blast will NEVER create a black hole - the reason they are so rare is that a very specific set of events must happen to form one.
    I just call it a blast, it creats a gravitational field thats super super strong.

    What centerpoint creates are called Quantum Disturbances - quasi black holes that do not have the true nature of a black hole, but bend light and destroy material. It's like a very deep gouge in the fabric of the universe, but without the "hole" of a black hole.
    It said exactly in the book it is a black hole.

  19. #11599
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Jedi, here's the thing -

    Unless you can provide proof a Wars ship can cross the Trek barrier, which was made by Q, then we can't assume they can simply do it.

    We have already PROVEN why Centerpoint and the Galaxy Gun could never hit a Trek ship... if a damn TurboLaser misses a capital ship 6km+ LONG that isn't MOVING, then how in the world could you hit a 700 meter ship doing 2,200 meters per second?
    It don't have to hit, Centerpoint have a effect range of millions of kilomteres at full power. Galaxy Gun can be used to hit planets. Centerpoint is used to attack fleets and Galaxy Gun is used to attack planets.

    Force < Q, already proven time and again
    You mean Force Sensitive < Q

    And Scott, it's Trek vs Wars... travelers and Weasley and the Q included. It's ALL of Trek vs ALL of Wars, or each side acting as they really would.
    Q don't get involved in human affairs.
    If you want to do each side, it'd be
    Federation/Romulans/Klingons/Vulcans/Gorn/Hydrans/Lyrans/ISC/Orion Pirates/Rebels vs Empire+ a few of the Empires allies maybe? vs Borg vs Species 8472 with the Q all laughing int he background and waiting for the "great war" to end before setting everything back to normal.
    Republic/CIS can take all of the Federation's allies out. And the Alliance to Restore Republic and Galactic Federation of Free Alliances will never side with the Federation, and they already sided with the Imperial Renmants, scince it is a member state of the Galactic Alliance.

  20. #11600
    That which cannot be known Kittamaru's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=SkywalkerJedi;1854043]
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Infantry have shields.
    Uhm... your point?

    They have both...

    Protoss units have Shield HP and armor (or health) points.

    Once the armor (or health) points reach zero, the unit asplodes.

    Like every terran and zerg units.

    Just terran and zerg units don't have shields.

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