11-20-05, 03:46 AM #1101
Fafnir, ignore him.
So: when it comes to Star Trek vs. Star Wars, Star Wars wins. But what about coalitions? Judging by the fact that Star Trek is in love with diplomacy, they may come to an agreement with Leto or something. We're also forgetting about the lesser universes: Spaceballs, Stargate and Farscape.
(What is Spaceballs anyway?)
11-20-05, 06:05 AM #1102
Spaceballs is a comedy movie that satired Star Wars. John Candy was in it.
11-20-05, 09:56 AM #1103
even thou every single movie disagrees with your ridiculous power claims and there is ZERO evidence to support ANY troopers ability to stop a borg[they DID lose to ewoks].
this match is over ,st wins,even if your too diluted and biased to see it.
OPPs ,your beamed into space now,man i bet 50 bazillions little fighters were MUCH better then transporters.
11-20-05, 10:14 AM #1104Originally Posted by Kron
Hey, Im insulted. I voted for Stargate. Just look at all that crazy shit the asgaurds, ancients, and the other 'great races' did in that universe. One little outpost takes out anubises entire fleet? Thats nutso.
11-20-05, 11:08 AM #1105
run away cowards,not one of you has ANY reply to borg vs trooper,so sw effectivly losses hands down,there are THOUSANDS of borg ships and BILLIONS of borg,each IMMUNE to blasters ,equipped with super strength,phase rifles,assmilation probes,TRANSPORTERS[they can beam anything they want throu any shield known,something sw WILL have an IMPOSSIBLE time defending against] , and they have INCREDIBLE regeneration powers of there ships AND there drones,not to mention every assmilate is now a soldier for the borg and the borg then have all his tactical knowledge AND there weapons tech.
after ANY major sw ship incountered their first borg,the borg would be on full alert and sent in to asmilate, and they would know exactly how many people per ship and how much firepower each ship has,and they would send in large waves of cubes in response [and utilizing the picard jump ,which they know ] sw ships would be UNABLE to even physicly hit them[as turbolasers fire at c,and warp is faster the c] so the battles would be pretty much one sided slaughters resulting in the borg assmilating entire fleets in minutes.
so please tell me where im wrong.
can sw stop borg transporters? no
are stormies stronger then a drone?no
can turbolasers hit anything going faster the c?no
will blasters hurt a borg drone?no
have the borg assmilated BILLIONS of alien races throu entire galaxies throu sheer force?yes
do sw ships regenarate?no
do borg ships regenarate?yes
id say sw will get its ASS handed to it by the borg,not ONE thing sw has ,has got ONE tactical advantage over the borg,not even your ludicrous power levels.
heres some education for you[watch the FULL documentary at the bottom left],notice the borg weapons destroying a planet with a MUCH smaller ship[they MUST be more efficient],also,the borg have conquered GALAXIES[plural] AND other dimensions so they have more experince with a galactic or even dimensional take over,more then likely they would just follow the last few retreating sw ships back to the sw galaxy and assmilate it as well.
NO one has ever beat the borg.
ps, there seems to be some debate into sw canon.pretty much anything in the extended universe is NOT canon.
its funny how you argue against st canon when you dont even know for sure which sw is canon.
Last edited by mars13; 11-20-05 at 03:06 PM.
11-20-05, 03:18 PM #1106
If the borg are such an ultimate force, why havnt they overwhelmed the federation yet?
11-20-05, 04:28 PM #1107
because they only sent ONE cube. and the only reason the feds knew how to take it out was because picard had been assmilated and knew their weaknesses AND he had a new enterprise with more powerful weaponry designed with the borg in mind.
and besides,the borg WILL be back, they have strongholds in other galaxies and other dimensions.
11-20-05, 10:38 PM #1108
Actually becuase mars13 is lying out his fat lips.
The borgs have a thousand worlds and thousands of ships. That's it. No other galaxies. They do have billions of drones but losing a planet every few hours will fix that in a hurry.
They are hardly immune to anyhing as they adjust their shields to most effectively counter a threat. This gives them slight better defense, but a blaster rifle is so overkill against nonhero characters that it would obliterate borg even after shield mods. hero character of course always getting hit with grazing shots. Star Destroyer weaponry produces more energy in a slavo than a Borg Ship could generate. Just the facts. I know you don't like and I'm glad.
SW galaxy had well over ten thousand years with Hyperdrive. that means Ten thousand years with spaceflight that makes Transwarp look like a joke.
As for transporters. They still have the problem of the immensely more powerful shields and neutronium impregnated armor. Dense matter messes up transporters remember.
Not mention that each of those dinky fighter can vaporize the Defiant in two passes. One if Y-Wings come in first and Ion Cannon the piece of junk.
Oh and that is another thing every Star Trek vessel practicall fall apart if you take out the structural integrity field, right? So just a few shots with an Ion Cannon and the suckers go up like hand grenades. Even the borg suffer that one.
11-20-05, 10:52 PM #1109
Now for intelligent discussion:
FarScape would take Star trek to lunch but would need the WormHole weapon to face Star Wars
Star gate SG-1 Wipe the floor with Star Trek and be on par with Star Wars
Space balls: Star trek is doomed as they cannot fathom the power of the Shwartz. Star Wars holds it's ground before finally just offering the Space Balls a new planet with better air.
Dune: Star trek loses horribly. Star Wars blows up the planet. Space Balls comb the desert in advertantly exposing the worms ot polycarbovinyl killing them instantly. Star Gate never goes there.
11-21-05, 12:17 AM #1110
the borg use multi-dimensional shields,they can transport throu all known shielding,they transport at any speed in several diffrent dimensions.they can time travel to kill you,and they can assmilate you.ALL powers that sw has NO concept off,let alone a defence.
And you REFUSE to comment on the fact sw cant shot anything going warp,and cant travel or engage at warp.but st can,so the fights are going to be alittle one sided.
AND THE BORG CAN DESTROY A PLANET WITH A SMALLER SHIP!!! SO THEY HAVE WEAPONS JUST AS POWERFUL!!DEAL WITH IT!!.
after the first sw ship incounter with a borg ship,the borg would have all tactical ablities and send a infiltration fleet[and sw doesnt have any knowledge or ablitity to stop transporters] ,after 2-3 borg drones are killed by blasters they would be immune[and they would be because phasers are MORE powerful then a crappy blaster,its been shown time and time again that a handheld blaster can NOT vaporize a human in one shot,phasers ARE more powerful then blasters]. storm troopers would then have only blade weapons,[as anything larger would hurt the ship].and borg are 4-5 times stronger then an average humanoid[data had to use a bit of effort to kill a borg].
heres some education for you.
you should ACTUALY watch it this time,its at the bottom left,its the FULL documentary.
Last edited by mars13; 11-21-05 at 12:25 AM.
11-21-05, 01:57 AM #1111
I would if it was not corrupted. Point me to text and then we'll talk.
As for the borg and transporting on to SW vessels. Not going to happen. A Star Deastroyer puts more energy into it's sheilds than any borg ship produces. The armor on Star Destroyers is Neutronium impregnated. They have superior EW capabilities. All these things mess up transporters.
And no Borg vessel has destroyed a planet. The seven vessels in the video belonged to Species 8472 form liquid space.
The one huge adavantage the Star Wars weaponry and shielding has is that it does not act on frequencies, thus limiting the ability of borg ability to adapt. Besides Star Wars also has heavy weapons, like Thermal detonators, grenades, Flechette Launchers, Ion Guns and so on
As for assimilation. Sure they could try but without the underlying science, which is not in the computers or even the crew, they will be hard pressed to duplicate something of that nature. It would the same as if you handed a Cro-Magnum man a steel knife. He knows it is superior but could not possibly begin to make one. to the borg it is worse. it is the pinnacle of energy weapons, shielding and travel, but they can't duplicate it.
As for the borgs oft-flaunted transwarp. It only works in the conduits, which are easily destroyed.
Last edited by TW Scott; 11-21-05 at 02:05 AM.
11-21-05, 10:09 AM #1112
Your arguments make No Sense. I have read every single post of yours, and all you do is say the same thing, with no proof.
Blasters cant vaporize someone? Please. Look at Han Solo shooting Greedo in the canteena in A New Hope, that guy gets fried. I have never seen a phaser do that, maybe you are thinking of disruptors?
storm troopers would then have only blade weapons,[as anything larger would hurt the ship].
[and sw doesnt have any knowledge or ablitity to stop transporters]
As soon as you stop your ignorant babbling maybe you can participate in this discussion as more than a person everyone can easily take potshots at.
11-21-05, 10:21 AM #1113
if the video didnt work,its because you dont have the media player update.
and you need to stop getting ALL your information and TALKING points from ONE website.and its not even very accurate at that.
neutronium will NOT stop borg transporters,neither will shields or anything else.
also,i dont know why you think sw would be too ''alien'' to assmilate,thats the stupidist argument you have used so far.they are humaniods with ships,they breath oxygen and eat food.like the borg havent assmilated ALIENS before,that IS what they do.
and this ridiculous claim of sw shields operating on ALL frequencies because they cant change them is just stupid.
its like saying becuase your transmission can only shift into one gear,then it must have ALL known gearing possible.
sw is NOT manifesting shields that operate on ALL energy frequencies simultaniously. sw has TWO types of shields suggesting TWO frequencies,they have an outer bubble shield and a second skin shield[even thou i didnt see ANY evidence of this in the movies] each shields frequency would be a diffrent layer of a shield matrix,since sw has TWO layers they ARE operating on TWO frequencies.thats how ALL ENERGY works,get it? an energy signiture formed iinto a coherant solid force field can only be ONE energy frequency,if you want two shields then you need TWO frequencies and so one,and since sw has TWO layers of shields then it can ONLY be two frequencies.
and why wont you address the FACT sw is PHYSICLY INCAPABLE of engaging at any speed faster then light?
almost ALL st ships can engage at warp,so sw wont even be able shot at st ships,let alone actualy hit one.not to mention sw guns are incredibly inaccurate weapons ,ever see those movies? 500 shots for 1 hit,thats a piss poor shooting average.
things sw CANT do.
stop borg drones from beaming aboard
kill the borg once they are on board[borg are 5 times stronger then a stormy and IMMUNE to blasters,AND armed with phase canons and energy shields AND have assmilation probes making all infected stormies borg drones]
or even HIT a st ship,because they CANT.
and blasters are weak as hell,they fried one guy? wow,a phaser would have stunned him,killed him, fried him,or just disintagrated him to atomic dust.take your pick.
blasters make TINY holes in things,phasers VAPORIZE targets.the biggest hole ive seen ANY hand blaster make is about the size of a baseball.thats WEAK.phasers make humanoids disappear.that implies STRONGER weapons.see thats how weapons work,bigger hole = more powerful gun.
and you didnt address the canon issue?
anything in the extended sw universe is NOT canon according to numerous lucas quotes.and that seems to be the consensous. funny you never mentioned this while you were bitching about st canon.so the MAJORITY of the crap you claim is NOT canon.
if its not backed up by ON SCREEN action its not canon,get it.
so theres NO way ANY stormy would get EVEN ONE borg kill,let alone the MILLIONS its gonna take to even dent the collective.
and your pathetic empire lasted about 20 years[and even then there was still large parts controlled by the rebels] and got beat by EWOKS,the borg have NEVER been defeted,only set back[and not very often and only by ONE species].but since they dont care how long it takes to assmilate something this is not a problem,they will NEVER stop trying to assmilate.
and heres 8472 kickin your ass as well.but seriously,this website mostly unbiased and fair[it gave sw a HUGE weapons advantage otherwise it would have been a slaughter] . it has some good info.
Last edited by mars13; 11-21-05 at 01:56 PM.
11-21-05, 02:39 PM #1114
im going to sum this up for you using undisputed canon information.
sw has a maximum effective attack range of about 50,000 km,and a maximum effective attack speed of turbolasers are about 2500 km a second.and they are VERY innacurate.
st [the fedeation]has a maximum effective strike distance of 300,000 km for phasers, and torps have a maximum SUBLIGHT launch distance of 4.5 MILLION km and much further if the torps are fired at warp.
and they are VERY accurate.
sw is INCAPABLE of engaging a st ship in combat.
when a sw ship fires at a st ship it will take seconds if not minutes for ANY attack to reach a st ship at the ships maximum effective range.sw weapons lack the range to take ANY st ship,let alone conquer the whole galaxy.they might blow up a planet or two and take out a few stationary outposts,but thats about it.
this concludes sw vs st.
star trek has won.
Last edited by mars13; 11-21-05 at 04:26 PM.
11-21-05, 10:53 PM #1115
Guys, ignore him. It is no use.
11-21-05, 11:13 PM #1116
I DONT THINK YOU UNDERSTAND HOW A TWO SIDED DEBATE WORKS RETARD.IGNORING ONE SIDE MEANS YOUR AN IDIOT.
Sw HasA VERY Limited Attack Range . Thats A Fact. All Canon Resources Confim This.
You Cant Even Engage A St Ship,deal With It Losers.
Last edited by mars13; 11-22-05 at 12:35 AM.
11-22-05, 01:54 AM #1117
Actually Star Wars has a HUGE attack range compared to the Battles I have seen in Star Trek. Even giving the benefit of the doubt, they seem to only have a 50 kilometer effective range. Yes you read the right fifty kilometers. Versus the 2500+ kilometers of the Star Wars universe. A phaser may reach 300,000km and a photon topedo geting 4.5 million, but that it irrelevant when the weapons are useless at that range.
Star Trek misses with more phasers shots and torpedo volleys than a blind man aiming a BB gun at fishnet. They miss all the time. It's not like they have the excuse of aiming at small craft either. A bird of prey missed twice in a row when it was firing on the wounded Enterprised D. And the Enterprise was moving in a straight line. The Defiant missed the Lokota several dozen times during their space battle.
I mean even the Turbo laser gunners aboard the Executer got one 16 meter craft when it was incoming at the bridge. Not to mention that they were doing it with full size batteries and from the side. These two aspects alone should have made the shot impossible.
As for speed the ST universe almost never fights at Warp Speeds. They slow down to impulse. Only on a few rare occasions have they even fired while doing warps speeds and in those instances it was with torpedoes.
Now as for your delusions that ship shields need frequencies. The frequency of a shield is most like the moments it is down for a very brief time. This is so weapon can fire un impeded. Getting the frequency of a ship would allow you to shoot through the shield becuase you shots are times right.
Star Wars shield have no need for Shield frequencies as they have the ability to open small holes in thier shield timed perfectly with the exit of their weapons. Since you don't need to lower the whole shield to do that, the vessel does not need to oscilate the shields like Star trek Vessels.
And as for Strict Canon nothing following the Death of Gene Rodenberry is canon if you are going by creators words. Becuase and I quote "It is not Star Trek until I say it is."
Lastly to the 'insult' that i go with one sight. I prefer a well researched, respected, and educated site than a plethora of conjecture written by people who barely past algebra. I'll stick with the engineer becuase he knows what he is talking about. So far my work on double checking his methods has proved he has a 99% rating. If anything is off it is by such a small fraction as to be almost meaningless.
If you have aproblem with Michael Wongs material please feel free to debate him.
Star Wars wins. You can debate it. After all I won't hold your ignorance against you. I'll use it against you.
11-22-05, 02:22 AM #1118
WOW 50 km? kinda funny how TRANSPORTER range is 50,000km. and thats considered CLOSE combat distances.
phasers DO have a range of 300,000km [earth to the moon]and torps[the feds switched to quantom now so they DONT lose power when traveling distance]and have a MINUMUM RANGE of 4.5 million km.
NOT ONE sw ship has engaged ANY target beyond 35,000km in ANY movie.not to mention tha fact SW CANT SHOOT ANYTHING GOING FASTER THEN SUBLIGHT!!!!show me where ANY sw ship has engaged at ftl speeds or at distances greater then 50,000km.
read this,its ALL canon info and UNBIASED.
and also,gene was alive throu most of tng.but anything in the movies and shows are canon as you have stated time and time again.
sw seems to only consider the movies true canon,anything beyond that is lesser canon and any contridiction with the movies ARE NOT canon,and NOTHING in the eu is canon.and i got this off stardestroyer.net,so you obviously agree with it.
Last edited by mars13; 11-22-05 at 02:55 AM.
11-22-05, 02:46 AM #1119
Well they may say 50,000 kilometers but they sure don't act like it. Taking the scale into account I am being generous with the 50 km for a battle. I have seen a few shots fired in warp, btu then the ships in question always slow down to impulse. If you watch i am not making this up. Even the assault on DS9 the enemies fly by at at half impulse or even slower. You'd think in a case like that they'd do high speed warp passes, but they don't. They invariably drop to sublight and attack at ranges of ten kilometers or less. That is canon as we have see it countless times.
And i did read blueyard. It is biased. Why? it is a group of laymen. They don't have the proper physics backgrounds, engineer education, or even the sense to look up simple fact like a Imperial Star Destroyer is 1,600 meters. It's biased the same way you are towards ignorance.
11-22-05, 03:09 AM #1120
phasers dont work at warp,the warp field disrupts the nadian effect.
phasers have a maximum effective range of 300,000km because if your going faster then impulse you can actually run into your own phaser beam.
and ALL measured effects of sw turbolasers show they are going at no more then 2500km a second,not one canon resource shows otherwise.
it would take a turbolaser bolt 2 minutes to reach a st ship at max phaser distance,let alone max torp distance.[and i doubt sw would even hit anything at that distance anyway,even if a st ship stood still that long]
sw ships CANNOT engage a st ship in combat.thats a verifible fact backed by ALL known canon info.
and why do you think someones job relates to their interpritation of made up scifi?
thats like saying a plumber knows more about the death star because there was some pipes on it in the movie.
you know i have designed 3 amphibious vehicles and a dozen houses ,not to mention tons of other trinkets and things.im currently working on an in-sink dishwasher.there is only one on the market now and mine will be 1/10 the price and 2x faster.id say im a qualified amatuer engineer,hell i took apart mylaser mouse and fixed it yesterday so i must be a turbolaser technition,right?
what has your boyfriend the stardestroyer.net guy engineered? he probably makes porchswings or something ,right?
Last edited by mars13; 11-22-05 at 03:15 AM.
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