View Poll Results: Which universe would win?

Voters
670. This poll is closed
  • Star Trek

    227 33.88%
  • Star Wars

    285 42.54%
  • Spaceballs

    51 7.61%
  • Farscape

    14 2.09%
  • Dune

    54 8.06%
  • Stargate

    39 5.82%

Thread: Star Wars vs Star Trek

  1. #10961
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    However it sustained much less damage on a hardened runway made for traction than the Enterprise Suacer section did on alluvial hills. I would point out that all half of the invisible hand had going for it was docking thrsusters and a few maneuvering fins. The saucer section had inertial stabilizers and thrusters according to video and script. So the comparison is not looking to be in ST's favor at all.
    as they said the saucer section went only with internal damage and few casuities. the Invisible hand first split in 2, and after that more then 50% of it got scorched in the landing and another 10-15% of what remained got banged up badly. i doubt more then 30% of it were inhabitable by the end of the crush. if 1000 people were on it, more than 1/2 would have perished.

  2. #10962
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sardonic Crisis View Post
    1. The background of the lazgun i'm not sure of it's capabilities but I think it is of the traditional laser type. Now to the other universes the properties are different but since they are slower than c it is conceivable that the holtzman shields would be able to hold against that.


    2.I'll use the tactics aspect here. Dune ships would most likely use a hit and run method due to their interstellar propulsion (instantaneous travel). That wouldn't give ST or SW time to deploy their bombers.



    3.This is an interesting weakness of the holtzman shield. Due to the billions of different points the sand grains hit the shield it weakens its defense to larger missile like weapons. They shut down the shield in that book because it was pointless to have them up in a sandstorm. But the question remains as to how long it would take for the other universes to figure that out?

    4.Highliners are not the only spacefolding vessels in Dune. There are innumerable amounts of ships with Ixian navigation machines that were sent out into the scattering.


    5.Someone said something about no-ships being able to be detected in the other universes. So what if you could? How are you going to interact with space that has left this plane?
    1. not really. if those laserguns are indeed conventional coherent light emission, then their total power is not that impresive. after all there is an uper limit as to how much energy can a photon have. it's enrgy can be calculated by: E=h*c/lambda .
    now with particlle beams you get far more destructive effects (depending on the properties of the particle, its speed and so on). so if a laser hits it only raises the inernal energy (temperature of the target) if say a proton beam hits it transfers part of its kinetic energy to termal efects, it destabilises the core of the atom inducing nuclear decay and potentially reacts with the electron clowd, efectively ionizing the atom. suficient to say, just the kinetic enegry is greater then with the laser and if you take all other potential effects of exotic particles and their tendency for high-energy dacays, i don't think the shields in Dune can take it.

    2. hardly. we see that fighers and shuttles are launched within minutes in both SW and ST, especially if there are ships/carriers present. if we asume patroling vessels present at key strategical points then... well you know the rest of it.

    3.well not long actually. the first proximity impact would reveal this weakness. so what would follow from a GCS would be fire torpedoes, sierra patern despersal, set to detonate around the ship, follow with rapid phaser fire on all shield points. now unless Dune hulls are resistent to barion and EM radiation, or nadion effects, you are facing with a tough predicament here.

    4. but were they warships? and are they still operative. i never got to the machines part.

    5.so what if they could. well open a dimensional rift and launch you war heads. or use transphasic devices to either re-phase them or interact with their space-time (no space). or if you are the empire, generate strong enough gravity well. that should either stop them from entering this universe or force them to drop out of theirs. the oportunities are many. especially in ST we se techno-bubble involving words "subspace" "phasing" "iso" all the time. even to much to make it belivable.

  3. #10963
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USS Enterprise-B View Post



    Yes, even at significantly slow speeds the Hand suffered considerable damage on impact!
    The Invisable Hand is damaged by the battle, and it crash landed in a Republic landing field not CIS, and the Invisable Hand crash landed. Don't forget, they are only flying half the ship. The venator's turbolasers downed the ship already.
    [/QUOTE]

  4. #10964
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TW Scott
    Actually, Executor, Eclipse, Home one and other such ships are classified as Space Stations As are the Trade Federation Bulk Cruisers that they converted to makeshift battleships. Pelase learn your starship classification better. If you have a probelm i suggest reading a few novels. the novelization of ESB especially is usefull.

    So they are ships... classified as Stations... wtf? Is not it's primary purpose to carry people/cargo/weapons from point A to point B and engage in combat? That's a fucking ship... I don't care what brain damaged moron said it's a station.

    First EXCECUTOR IS 19 KM NOT 17 KM. Acording to you all Star Wars spacestations are classified as ships.

    Actually, I would think most people would recognize the tougher vessels. Would it be the the one that pulverized a meteor that struck it's bridge towere, even if the tower might have been knocked off?
    Or is it the vessel that was rammed at 1 km an hour and the ramming ship flew straight through the hull like a linebacker through crepe paper?

    We've already been thru this... the meteor pulverized the bridge tower, while it itself fragmented.
    I said this a hundred times, it didn't get pulverized. All of the ships except for the two disabled ( one by Ion Cannon, one by turbolaser hits on the engine ) are present for latter battles. Please keep up
    Conversely, in Trek, we've seen vessels ALMOST survive high-speed rams by ships filled with Anti-Matter... even AFTER the ship has taken severe damage.

    Also, how about the half of a ship that survived near no-power re-entry?
    Invisible Hand surrived a re-entry on a REPUBLIC landing strip built for VENATORS NOT CIS SHIPS, not to mention the battle damage and it is only half a ship.
    Kittamaru's is in red, mine is in dark orange and TW Scott's is in black.

  5. #10965
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Are you stupid?

    That ship was supposedly designed to land somewhere...

    the Saucer section of the Galaxy Class is NOT designed to land ANYWHERE without the rest of the damned ship! Much less WITHOUT primary power, shields, the SIF, or any other forms of structural support!
    Yes it is, it is a life boat. Either UFP Engineers are stupid enough to not make a life boat designed to land, or the Saucer is able to land.

  6. #10966
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkywalkerJedi View Post
    Yes it is, it is a life boat. Either UFP Engineers are stupid enough to not make a life boat designed to land, or the Saucer is able to land.
    The saucer was not meant to land. The Saucer was there so that the UFP could seperate that portion with the civilians on board in the event that the ship is called into a battle that it could, or is expected to lose. That portion of the ship would call for help, and they'd be rescued.

    Really though, the seperation thing was mostly a test bedding idea that never really took off. The point was there to see if it would work for families. That failed, but the idea did give birth to the Prometheus class starship, which as we saw, was easily capable of destroying a Romulan Warbird.

  7. #10967
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellblade8 View Post
    The saucer was not meant to land. The Saucer was there so that the UFP could seperate that portion with the civilians on board in the event that the ship is called into a battle that it could, or is expected to lose. That portion of the ship would call for help, and they'd be rescued.

    Really though, the seperation thing was mostly a test bedding idea that never really took off. The point was there to see if it would work for families. That failed, but the idea did give birth to the Prometheus class starship, which as we saw, was easily capable of destroying a Romulan Warbird.
    It is made to land.
    Thats why it is a life boat. Why would they put civilians on a ship when there is a war. The only civilian ISD is Errant Venture, and is empty except for the skeleton crew when Booster Terrik want it to be involved in battle.

  8. #10968
    Quote Originally Posted by antaran_1979 View Post
    1. not really. if those laserguns are indeed conventional coherent light emission, then their total power is not that impresive. after all there is an uper limit as to how much energy can a photon have. it's enrgy can be calculated by: E=h*c/lambda .
    now with particlle beams you get far more destructive effects (depending on the properties of the particle, its speed and so on). so if a laser hits it only raises the inernal energy (temperature of the target) if say a proton beam hits it transfers part of its kinetic energy to termal efects, it destabilises the core of the atom inducing nuclear decay and potentially reacts with the electron clowd, efectively ionizing the atom. suficient to say, just the kinetic enegry is greater then with the laser and if you take all other potential effects of exotic particles and their tendency for high-energy dacays, i don't think the shields in Dune can take it.
    Okay, I'm more understanding of ST and SW weapon physics now, thanks to you, but because of your explanation the dangers I first brought up of energy weapons seems more plausible. The problem with hitting a holtzman shield is that it is working on the subatomic level... if the lasers hitting a holtzman shield, causing a subatomic explosion, are admittedly less powerful then those weapons that disrupt atoms using greater energy what is to say that the same subatomic explosion would not happen or greater one? I'm going to say, Focused Energy weapons + Holtzman shield = Dangerous and Unpredictable.

    2. hardly. we see that fighers and shuttles are launched within minutes in both SW and ST, especially if there are ships/carriers present. if we asume patroling vessels present at key strategical points then... well you know the rest of it.
    Yes, deployment is within minutes. Attack is instantaneous... or relatively... a dune attack fleet could jump in unload for 1 min then jump again. patrol vessels would have to be up and at full alert 24/7... highly unlikely.

    3.well not long actually. the first proximity impact would reveal this weakness. so what would follow from a GCS would be fire torpedoes, sierra patern despersal, set to detonate around the ship, follow with rapid phaser fire on all shield points. now unless Dune hulls are resistent to barion and EM radiation, or nadion effects, you are facing with a tough predicament here.
    That seems a lot of work for one ship. All the while the extreme numbers of dune ships overwhelm. With what weapons... i still have figure that one out.

    4. but were they warships? and are they still operative. i never got to the machines part.
    Definitely warships, the Honored Matres returned to the old empire with massive numbers and were taking over like a landslide. Look into Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse: Dune.

    5.so what if they could. well open a dimensional rift and launch you war heads. or use transphasic devices to either re-phase them or interact with their space-time (no space). or if you are the empire, generate strong enough gravity well. that should either stop them from entering this universe or force them to drop out of theirs. the oportunities are many. especially in ST we se techno-bubble involving words "subspace" "phasing" "iso" all the time. even to much to make it belivable.
    A. You have to foldspace to reach them.
    B. I said that ST COULD sense them I didn't say that they would immediately figure out what they were. Due to the properties the ships it wouldn't be in sub-space. It would be similar to the cloaking device except they don't give off any energy.

    A dialogue on the bridge of a ST ship would go something like this:

    LT: Sir, I think I've found a disturbance in space/time.

    CAP: What is it?

    LT: I'm not sure. Scanning the area.

    (pause for computer feedback)

    LT: Whatever it is, its not recordable in subspace and normal space shows no results besides a fluctuation.

    CAP: Is it occuring naturally?

    LT: I'm not sure, it defies our knowledge... wait... its gone.

    C. As to the gravity well, you would be messing with the holtzman effect that makes the no-field possible. Are you telling me they would risk tearing the fabric of space just to reach a no-ship? Think of the centerpoint argument from earlier. Don't mess with the quantum mechanics of such a device unless you want to be severely burned.

    D. As to the transphasic, I don't know if they would work or not... thats just iffy.

  9. #10969
    Minister of Technology
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellblade8 View Post
    The saucer was not meant to land. The Saucer was there so that the UFP could seperate that portion with the civilians on board in the event that the ship is called into a battle that it could, or is expected to lose. That portion of the ship would call for help, and they'd be rescued.

    Really though, the seperation thing was mostly a test bedding idea that never really took off. The point was there to see if it would work for families. That failed, but the idea did give birth to the Prometheus class starship, which as we saw, was easily capable of destroying a Romulan Warbird.
    Incorrect. The Saucer section of Starfleet vessels was designed as a last ditch life boat. Hell they talk about seperating the saucer back in TOS. The Galaxy class was actually just the first vessel that could do so and reattach the saucer as well. originally seperating the saucer was permanent thing. The Galaxy class was also the first vessel where the secondary hull could function as an independant starship.

    The inspiration for the Promethius is actually Rikers tactic of sending both the secondary hull and the saucer section into battle against the Borg cube holding Locutus. Working as a team the two parts of the vessel were able to pound the cube with uncontional tactics that did manage to distract Locutus enough that a shuttle craft was able to insert an extraction team,.

  10. #10970
    Minister of Technology
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    Quote Originally Posted by antaran_1979 View Post
    as they said the saucer section went only with internal damage and few casuities. the Invisible hand first split in 2, and after that more then 50% of it got scorched in the landing and another 10-15% of what remained got banged up badly. i doubt more then 30% of it were inhabitable by the end of the crush. if 1000 people were on it, more than 1/2 would have perished.
    Okay to be fair let's do this a fair comparison.

    Federation Galaxy Class Starship Saucer section upon entering atmospshere:
    • Damage: Minimal. The Saucer section took one disruptor hit that did not even make the hull glow. The Warp breach cuased a them to be knocked off course and into planets gravity, but did NO damage.
    • Speed: Minimal. Entered atmosphere on a glide at less than 1 km/s.
    • Systerm Damage: Moderate: Primary Inertia Dampers were offline, secondaries were in place. Sheilds were up.
    • Crew: Full crew compliment
    • Propulsion: Vessel still had impulse, Thrusters, and Docking thrusters.

    Invisble Hand class starship up entering atmosphere.
    • Damage: Heavy. Star ship had been the vistim of dozen of heavy Turbolaser shoits weaking the hull and structure.
    • Speed: Accelerating: Untill Anakin ordered extnding all drive fin and reversing engines the vessel was accellerating and was moving at least 4 times it's lenght in one second. Or 8km/s.
    • System Damage: Moderate: primary Stabilizers were down as was primary Anti gravity.
    • Crew: None only left with two pilots, one droid, and one Chancellor.
    • Propulsion: None. Moment Reverse was ordered back part of ship tore free thanks to heavy structural damage.


    In effect you are trying to compare a slow glide into a some soft land with a ship falling faster than freefall unto a hardened tarmac.

    of course the Enterprise Saucer looks a little better, but the fact there was anything left of the Invisble hand at all is quite amazing.

  11. #10971
    Minister of Technology
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    [QUOTE=Sardonic Crisis;1837249]Okay, I'm more understanding of ST and SW weapon physics now, thanks to you, but because of your explanation the dangers I first brought up of energy weapons seems more plausible. The problem with hitting a holtzman shield is that it is working on the subatomic level... if the lasers hitting a holtzman shield, causing a subatomic explosion, are admittedly less powerful then those weapons that disrupt atoms using greater energy what is to say that the same subatomic explosion would not happen or greater one? I'm going to say, Focused Energy weapons + Holtzman shield = Dangerous and Unpredictable.[/qupte]

    Dangerous and unpredicatble for the one with the shield. Okay lets' say I hand you Captain America's shield. It is supposedly more indestructable than Adamantium. Now I tell you to squat behind it so that no part of you is visible. Then I get in my M1A1 tank and fire a HE shell right at the White star on the shield. What's going to be left of you?


    Yes, deployment is within minutes. Attack is instantaneous... or relatively... a dune attack fleet could jump in unload for 1 min then jump again. patrol vessels would have to be up and at full alert 24/7... highly unlikely.
    How is this any different then in Star Wars or in Federation areas within striking distance of the romulans. Giving either a full minute is asking for complete and utter destruction. Even warming up the guns SW could fire all their weapons at you 40 times with no effort and ST could easily pull off at least twenty.


    That seems a lot of work for one ship. All the while the extreme numbers of dune ships overwhelm. With what weapons... i still have figure that one out.
    We have never seen any battleships in Dune and if megaton level Atomic weapons are considered the big badass WMD then even a single Star Trek Class 2 Shuttle can take on Dune Highliners and win. A single ISD would be more than the Guild would ever want to admit. Plus given the fractious universe of dune hearing of Warp or Hyperspace would have the Great Houses killing the Navigators if they could get their hands on these devices.

  12. #10972
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkywalkerJedi View Post
    The Invisable Hand is damaged by the battle, and it crash landed in a Republic landing field not CIS, and the Invisable Hand crash landed. Don't forget, they are only flying half the ship. The venator's turbolasers downed the ship already.
    [/QUOTE]

    The Saucer section was hit by an overloading WARP CORE blast, had NO power, NO retro thrusters, and NO shields OR SIF.

    Oh, and it's LESS than half a ship!

    And it landed on NO runway!

    I'm sorry, the saucer impact was far, FAR worse!

  13. #10973
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkywalkerJedi View Post
    Kittamaru's is in red, mine is in dark orange and TW Scott's is in black.
    I don't care WHAT it was built for... that's like saying a 747 can't land on a military airstrip in the event of an emergency - it sure as hell can!

    And no, the bridge is gone. PERIOD. I can CLEARLY see that in the dvd version. There are NO questions!.

    Also - even if I was 2 km off, oh well. I haven't seen anything say 19km. And I"M not saying their ships are stations, Scott is!

    If it's a ship, it's a goddamned ship. Period. If it's a station (Eg, DeathStar), it's a damned station! Period!

  14. #10974
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkywalkerJedi View Post
    Yes it is, it is a life boat. Either UFP Engineers are stupid enough to not make a life boat designed to land, or the Saucer is able to land.
    It's ABLE to land, it's not DESIGNED to. Life boat, eg, EMERGENCY LANDING.

    Also, normally they'd just transport everyone off - the transporters on the Galaxy class can, in an emergency situation, transport 1000 people within 3 seconds! (taken from Insurrection)

  15. #10975
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkywalkerJedi View Post
    It is made to land.
    Thats why it is a life boat. Why would they put civilians on a ship when there is a war. The only civilian ISD is Errant Venture, and is empty except for the skeleton crew when Booster Terrik want it to be involved in battle.
    The Galaxy is NOT a warship... for gods sake shut up! You OBVIOUSLY no NOTHING of Star Trek AT ALL!

    The Galaxy class starship was designed for extended deployment. As a result, often times Families are brought aboard to help cope with YEARS away from home.

    Watch TNG - how many damn families do you see aboard? I saw HUNDREDS of non-combat personel!

  16. #10976
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Okay to be fair let's do this a fair comparison.

    Federation Galaxy Class Starship Saucer section upon entering atmospshere:
    • Damage: Minimal. The Saucer section took one disruptor hit that did not even make the hull glow. The Warp breach cuased a them to be knocked off course and into planets gravity, but did NO damage besides causing them to loose all power
    • Speed: High: Atmospheric entry at far above design specifications, especially without shields or an SIF
    • Systerm Damage: Extreme - primary and secondary systems were down. Life support and basic thrusters only.
    • Crew: Full crew compliment
    • Propulsion: None. Manuvering thrusters were at minimal power, impulse was down (else they could have LEFT THE ATMOSPHERE)

    Invisble Hand class starship up entering atmosphere.
    • Damage: Heavy. Star ship had been the vistim of dozen of heavy Turbolaser shoits weaking the hull and structure.
    • Speed: Accelerating: Untill Anakin ordered extnding all drive fin and reversing engines the vessel was accellerating and was moving at least 4 times it's lenght in one second. Or 8km/s.Not according to the dvd I have, but hey, we know you're prone to exagerate
    • System Damage: Moderate: primary Stabilizers were down as was primary Anti gravity.
    • Crew: None only left with two pilots, one droid, and one Chancellor. I thought Anakin was an uber pilot born of the force? He counts as a full pilots compliment.
    • Propulsion: None. Moment Reverse was ordered back part of ship tore free thanks to heavy structural damage.


    In effect you are trying to compare a slow glide into a some soft land with a ship falling faster than freefall unto a hardened tarmac.

    of course the Enterprise Saucer looks a little better, but the fact there was anything left of the Invisble hand at all is quite amazing.
    The fact that you are trying to say a "glide" onto "soft land" at all is rediculous at best!

    LAND IS WORSE THAN TARMAC! TREES RIP AND DO MORE DAMAGE THAN HITTING NOTHING ELSE! THE FACT THAT THEY HIT SOIL MEANS THE SHIP DUG INTO THE GROUND, SUSTAINING FAR HIGHER KINETIC FORCES THAN A SLIDING LANDING!

    And, as before- the saucer section was HIT BY AN EXPLOADING WARP CORE. The fact that it SURVIVED is amazing enough!

    I also fixed your errors... they're in red. Dumbass.

  17. #10977
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Sardonic, Dune would not be able to penetrate either sides shields... and we could easily overcome dunes shields. Proximity detonation of a dozen photon torps around the shields coupled with a concentrated phaser strike on every shield face would result in an overload of your system, much as the sand storm weakened the shields. Then, we'd use a heavy phaser cannon or a concentrated phaser burst from the primary grid at 110% power to punch thru the shields and vaporize the ship.

  18. #10978
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkywalkerJedi View Post
    It is made to land.
    Thats why it is a life boat. Why would they put civilians on a ship when there is a war. The only civilian ISD is Errant Venture, and is empty except for the skeleton crew when Booster Terrik want it to be involved in battle.
    it is not a life boat. GCS has escape pods and shuttles. those serve as life boats. the saucer is limited Warp capable vesel designed vor civilians to live the threat area while the engeneering section makes a stand. have you noticed that GCS does not have landing struts. it is not suposed to land anywhere but at a star dock. the first ship in ST that wee explicetly know was designed for atmospheric entry and landing was the Intrepid.

    as for why would they put civilians on board, the answer is the were not at war. they were not at war when they first build GCSs, they were not at war during the Next Generation. the first time the expected conflict and had the time to prepare, they disembarked the civilians (DS9-the Jem'Hadar). i suspect all the GCSs in the Dominion War were without civilians on board, so we don't see starship separation taking place.

  19. #10979
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sardonic Crisis View Post
    1.Okay, I'm more understanding of ST and SW weapon physics now, thanks to you, but because of your explanation the dangers I first brought up of energy weapons seems more plausible. The problem with hitting a holtzman shield is that it is working on the subatomic level... if the lasers hitting a holtzman shield, causing a subatomic explosion, are admittedly less powerful then those weapons that disrupt atoms using greater energy what is to say that the same subatomic explosion would not happen or greater one? I'm going to say, Focused Energy weapons + Holtzman shield = Dangerous and Unpredictable.


    2.Yes, deployment is within minutes. Attack is instantaneous... or relatively... a dune attack fleet could jump in unload for 1 min then jump again. patrol vessels would have to be up and at full alert 24/7... highly unlikely.


    3.That seems a lot of work for one ship. All the while the extreme numbers of dune ships overwhelm. With what weapons... i still have figure that one out.


    4.Definitely warships, the Honored Matres returned to the old empire with massive numbers and were taking over like a landslide. Look into Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse: Dune.


    5.
    A. You have to foldspace to reach them.
    B. I said that ST COULD sense them I didn't say that they would immediately figure out what they were. Due to the properties the ships it wouldn't be in sub-space. It would be similar to the cloaking device except they don't give off any energy.
    C. As to the gravity well, you would be messing with the holtzman effect that makes the no-field possible. Are you telling me they would risk tearing the fabric of space just to reach a no-ship? Think of the centerpoint argument from earlier. Don't mess with the quantum mechanics of such a device unless you want to be severely burned.

    D. As to the transphasic, I don't know if they would work or not... thats just iffy.
    1. inpredictible yes. subatomic level yes. but how do we know that Holtzman effect is not experienced only during subatomic interaction with EM quantas? we don't. but we do know that atomics don't cause it. so we are safe to presume other nuclear conversion methods (fission, fusion, m-am anihilation) won'c cause it. allso since phasers seam to effect nuclear bonds on at least some level (probably TLs too from the way they desintigrate asteroids) it os quite possible that even those won't cause sub-atomic fusion. there is one way to find out though.
    2.if Dune's time to unload is similar to their time to load, i'd say more then 1 min.
    3. well a large scale battle is bound to happen sooner or later. especially of Dune attacks some of the shipbuilding centers in ST or SW. or some of their political centers.
    4. ah ok. thanx. i might do that. i'm reading Scipio right now, and Greek Mithology is next, but as soon as i'm finished wwith those i might pick up Dune where i left it (Devine Emperor)
    5.
    A: foldspace (from what i make out of it) is actualy sevear space-time distortion (Event Horizon ,the movie -like) that breatches the boeders of this continuum. basicly what Hyperdrive,Transwarp and Sleapsteem do. or the displacement devices. or any sub-space based tech.
    B:the ship would not be in sub-space. sub-space would be used as a medium to reach it's destination-less.
    C:knowing the Empirial tendency to shoot first and then shoot more later, i'd say they won't give it much thought. and if they descover it takes to sacrifice 1 of their interdictors to wipe out an entire fleet of enemies, i have no doubt they will do it. hack, even the gutless ST federation civilians would do it.
    D: i know. but of phased devices can shift objects betwean diferent space time properties, it will be a metter of time before they start using deflector emisiions, warp bubbles or phaser grids to destabilze the null fields. in any case the first contact with Dune will probably be a great surprise for both sides. but then again all first contacts are. if a full scale war ocurs, UFP level of new-tech developents or adaptation of their current tech, would give them an advantage over the stagnant Dune (well this depends largely on which book you are deriveng your facts on).

  20. #10980
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    The Saucer section was hit by an overloading WARP CORE blast, had NO power, NO retro thrusters, and NO shields OR SIF.

    Oh, and it's LESS than half a ship!

    And it landed on NO runway!

    I'm sorry, the saucer impact was far, FAR worse![/QUOTE]

    true. Data menaged to bring back some power to (thruster/impulse-i can't remember right now, will watch the movie later) level their descent only after they were powerless for quite some time.

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