View Poll Results: Which universe would win?

Voters
670. This poll is closed
  • Star Trek

    227 33.88%
  • Star Wars

    285 42.54%
  • Spaceballs

    51 7.61%
  • Farscape

    14 2.09%
  • Dune

    54 8.06%
  • Stargate

    39 5.82%

Thread: Star Wars vs Star Trek

  1. #10761
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellblade8 View Post
    Yes, I've said that.

    Basicly, they would have had to make two batches. One at the start, and three years later, so as to make it ready within the third year of the war.

    That still means it takes ten years to grow million soldiers.
    Yes, by one system.






    Again, you have realtively no evidence of this. All of it is based upon speculation. Furthermore, wasn't Luke wanting to become a pilot for the Empire? Wouldn't that suggest they've allowed for others save for the clones to join the Imperial ranks?

    In fact, the Storm Troopers in A New Hope don't even sound like Jango at all.
    Yes, they do let non-clone join. After the Battle of Kamino and the Anti-troopers, they stop only making Jango clones, but other clones too. Only the elit 501st Legion is "Pure Fett" and the other clones are nicknamed the 'new guys' by the 501st. Only 1/3 of the whole stormtrooper crops are Fett clones. Fett clones are the best, because of their training on Kamino.



    Although the Clone Troopers are competent, their ability to take on a vastly higher numbered amount of droids is mostly due to the exceptional lack of competency among the droids. A Mech droid outsmarted to battle droids, and most of the foot soldiers have proven to be nothing short of incompetent idiots. Hell, the ones in Phantom Menace didn't even bother to lock up, or even tie the fighter pilots and decided to keep them in the fighter bay.
    Republic have no standard army after the Army of Light and the Old Republic Army got disband. None of the Naboo pilots have any combat experience at all, and some are not even fighter pilots. An Astromech is AI rated higher then B-1 Combat Droids. The Naboo foot soilders are polices on a very peacful planet, so the chances of experience are low.



    No they aren't. It was stated that 26 ISDs, and one SSD was more than enough to overpower the Rebel Fleet, which was a focus of all their forces to destroy the second Death Star. The admiral himself stated they wouldn't last very long at close range with Star Destroyers, and they only did it because the Death Star wouldn't fire at them with the Imperial Fleet being so close.

    Again, the problem with the Rebels was that they were hard to find, not because they held a strong military presence.
    The problem is more and more systems joined the Alliance to Restore the Republic, and they are hidden.

    Likely how half the system was? In fact, we also know that Alderaan was a peaceful planet, and that there was a strong resistance against building an army for the protection of their government. That again, proves my point that SW races are docile. No one wanted an army, no one wanted blood on their hands, and they all wanted to talk it out.
    There are loyal to their own organization, but the organizations are rivals, so it is more dangerous to have a organization of systems aginst you rather then a single system.
    In fact, even with Trade Federation ships orbiting her planet, the Queen again pushed for peace. The idea of using fighters to ward of an attacker, despite being invaded, was appalling to them.
    This is what the Naboo thinks.
    " We must keep our faith in the senate, the day we don't believe in demorcracy is the day we lose it."
    " I won't make an action that will lead us to war. "
    They are strong Republic Loyalists.


    You mean the Senate that has no actual military backing at all? So basicly, they only have a small police force, which is basicly the Jedi, and they managed to keep the peace, despite being heavily outnumbered.
    The Senate give them authority and resources, as well as some ships. They manage to keep the peace, because there wasn't a major problem. ( Outbound Flight and other crisis is not considered major compared to the wars )


    And yet we only see a few hundred of them at best, not thousands of soldiers. And again, you fail to comprehend the point I am making.

    During a war, you are going to be losing ships. And thus, you need to replace them, as well as trying to build more ships to overpower the enemy. Now, during the start of the Clone Wars, both sides had realtively no actual army for a grand war. Count Dooku and his buddies were focusing mostly on building the Death Star in secret in order to overpower the Senate and the government to its knees. This was foiled by Ben when he discovered that Dooku was doing bad things.

    This eventually led to a battle, and the beginning of the war. This meant that both sides had to build their army. Despite the fact that the CIS were a few steps ahead, they still didn't have enough of an army to overrun the Republic before they could get their million soliders into action, as they would have. Given their FTL speeds, it should have been plausible. And yet it never happened.
    Ben is a disguse name, Obi-Wan is his real name. The CIS already have a huge Army and Navy, and the GAR is ready, but it is not as big as the CIS. The Death Star plans was never completed untill the Geonosians gave it to Tyrance ( Dooku ). Both armies are ready, but the CIS is slightly bigger then the Republic's army. The problem is that the CIS are droids and easy to build, the Republic are clones and need long time to grow.
    Alright, then what are the Chiss, as per mentioned in the Clone Wars cartoon?
    They never mentioned Chiss, only Chiss space.


    That's nice. Except those cruisers hold less firepower, and are facing a group about 90% ISDs, outnumber them, and the remaining 10% goes to the SSD, which is suppposedly much stronger.

    How exactly was this supposed to be a military threat again?
    Two or three Mon Calmiri Cruisers are ISD's match.

    ...Then there wouldn't be a reason for a overly massive fleet, now would there? And sorry to say, but that sounds a bit like bullshit to me, since the Star Destroyers were taking heavy damage during the battle above Coruscant.
    They mainly took damage from the Hyperspace rammings from a ship the same size. The real batle is majorly Republic victory.

    And yet, we saw that the Jedi did it just fine for thousands of years with just 20,000 knights. A million would be overkill by that comparison.
    CIS outnumbers the Jedi.

  2. #10762
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Excuse me, but a Heavy TL has at least the range of any other TL and then some. Common sense here please.
    Heavy Turbolasers have the the same range as medium turbolasers and a little longer rnage then light turbolasers. The Long Range turbolasers is the only one that can reach the surface from orbit.

  3. #10763
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Actually we are going by the rules of canon for each franchise. Lucasfilm policy states the the films override EU where the two disagree.

    As for acting like neutronium. did the Dyson sphere in "relic" act like nuetronium? Has any example in ST acted like what we consider nuetronium? Nope and Nope. So it is matters very little. It's said to be in there and acts no differently than the supposedly invulnerable nuetronium in ST so your screwed two times over.
    where did you get that idea from?

  4. #10764
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    Hey guys, first forum post here. Some really crazy discussion going on here. Lots of numbers, lots of physics, lots of facts, and a ton of conjecture. But, it has been an entertaining read. SkywalkerJedi is pretty knowledgeable in his Star Wars, and Kittamaru has some excellent Trek knowledge too. It's been fun to watch these guys go at it!

    Anyway, I'd like to say one thing first. Maybe those numbers of mass gigatons for Star Wars is true. Star Wars is in a galaxy far, far away, as we see at the beginning of every movie. Isn't it entirely possible that the laws of physics don't work the same there as they would here? We know that Trek is located in the Milky Way. Maybe the Wars-galaxy has a few different rules.

    As for planet destruction capability, Star Trek has exhibited this a few times, and the ability to destroy a star. The reason why Star Trek universe people do not like to destroy stars was addressed in Generations, where they said that it would affect the general coordination of the galaxy, and thus complicate warp travel. It is the same with not wanting to destroy jumpgates in Babylon 5.

    Anyway, planet destruction in Trek #1: Species 8472. This has been referenced multiple times in this thread.

    Planet destruction in Trek #2: The Xindi. 22nd century technology (When Earth was first starting to get out in the galaxy). The opposing technology was slightly more advanced than the NX-01 Enterprise, but not by much. Still, they were able to construct a planet destroying weapon (Pretty big Death Star knockoff, if I do say so myself). Due to a generic Trek "worst case scenario" episode, we got to see it in action. Since I am a new poster, I cannot post links yet. So just copy and paste this, and get rid of the spaces. youtube. com/ watch?v=PHCNha9Xxas

    Low tech Trek species manages to create a planet killer? Doesn't seem THAT hard. The Death Star does have numerous advantages, though. They are too long to list, but I'm sure you all know them.

    Anyway, the idea that Star Wars has gigaton level weaponry on fighters is pretty insane, unless their galaxy works different than ours. If they did, wouldn't they only need a few shots from a few of their fighters to destroy a planet?

    In the event that Star Wars technology is that much more advanced, two things should be noted:
    1. Why are they not using living ships yet?!?!?!?
    2. The Star Wars races have been in space a lot longer than the races from Star Trek. Earth has been in space in Star Trek for 300 years. I've heard a lot of numbers for Star Wars. But, according to Wookiepedia, it is something like over 25,000 years since the Galatic Republic was formed at the end of Return of the Jedi. It is only natural that their technology be extremely, extremely advanced.

  5. #10765
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellblade8 View Post
    Although the Clone Troopers are competent, their ability to take on a vastly higher numbered amount of droids is mostly due to the exceptional lack of competency among the droids. A Mech droid outsmarted to battle droids, and most of the foot soldiers have proven to be nothing short of incompetent idiots. Hell, the ones in Phantom Menace didn't even bother to lock up, or even tie the fighter pilots and decided to keep them in the fighter bay.
    Actually Droid soldiers are only as competent as their commanders and do not think creatively, much like borg. Clone troopers are indeed competent warrior and much more capable of a full scale war than anything we have seen in Star Trek. I could provide a comprehensive list but I will make a short summary below.

    Star Trek trooper
    Weapons: Semi Automatic energy weapon or Shoulder fired grenade launcher. Some races carry bladed weapons as back up, but these races also have tendency to favor reckless charges with melee weapons
    Armor: None
    Vehicles: Dune buggy type Fast Attack vehicles made for scouting purposes. Light shuttle craft.
    Artillery: Mortar based Photon Grenade

    Star Wars trooper
    Weapons: Fully automatic Light reapeating blasters, blaster rifles, heavy repeating blaster, shoulder fired missile launchers, grenade launchers, flame throwers, Magnacasters and vibroblades.
    Armor: Standardized Medium weight environmental armor or Space worthy powered armor
    Vehicles: Assorted from Personal Walkers, to mammoth tanks, hover APC's, Speeders, and antistarship cannons. They also have heavily armed landing shuttles.
    Artillery: Concussion missles. mortars, and light antiaircraft artillery.


    See the difference?


    No they aren't. It was stated that 26 ISDs, and one SSD was more than enough to overpower the Rebel Fleet, which was a focus of all their forces to destroy the second Death Star. The admiral himself stated they wouldn't last very long at close range with Star Destroyers, and they only did it because the Death Star wouldn't fire at them with the Imperial Fleet being so close.

    Again, the problem with the Rebels was that they were hard to find, not because they held a strong military presence.
    Quote, this was indeed true as of Battle of Endor, byut the Rebels were famous for daring use of squadrons of elites fighters taking down small capital ships. And the Mon Cal designs were easily the toughest starships in the galaxy thanks to their back up shielding.

    Likely how half the system was? In fact, we also know that Alderaan was a peaceful planet, and that there was a strong resistance against building an army for the protection of their government. That again, proves my point that SW races are docile. No one wanted an army, no one wanted blood on their hands, and they all wanted to talk it out.
    Actually, Alderaan, naboo, and Camaas were the only known peaceful planets. Look at the Wookies and their standing army, and the Gungan's/ What everybody didn't want was an army under the control of the Chancellor.

    In fact, even with Trade Federation ships orbiting her planet, the Queen again pushed for peace. The idea of using fighters to ward of an attacker, despite being invaded, was appalling to them.
    Appalling becuase there was HUNDREDS of Trade Federation cruisers in orbit and maybe a hundred fighters on all of Naboo. Yeah, real fair fight there.


    You mean the Senate that has no actual military backing at all? So basicly, they only have a small police force, which is basicly the Jedi, and they managed to keep the peace, despite being heavily outnumbered.
    Well each planet had it's own defense forces and technically could pledge them in time of war, but most planets had scaled them back to the point they could defend home if push came to shove. Such is the price of 1500 years of peace.

  6. #10766
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkywalkerJedi View Post
    where did you get that idea from?
    From each sides canon. Please keep up.

  7. #10767
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    Quote Originally Posted by daveeb View Post
    Anyway, the idea that Star Wars has gigaton level weaponry on fighters is pretty insane, unless their galaxy works different than ours. If they did, wouldn't they only need a few shots from a few of their fighters to destroy a planet?
    The TK event that destroyed the dinosaurs through nuclear winter was only 1,000 gigatons. Does earth look destroyed to you?

    In the event that Star Wars technology is that much more advanced, two things should be noted:
    1. Why are they not using living ships yet?!?!?!?
    2. The Star Wars races have been in space a lot longer than the races from Star Trek. Earth has been in space in Star Trek for 300 years. I've heard a lot of numbers for Star Wars. But, according to Wookiepedia, it is something like over 25,000 years since the Galatic Republic was formed at the end of Return of the Jedi. It is only natural that their technology be extremely, extremely advanced.
    1: This would be a fallacy. Just becuase a device is living does not mean it is superior to what can be created with much harder metals. Would you say a human bone could shatter one made of steel the same size? There are cases where living technology would be superior, but we are so many billions years away from deveoping them it is not funny.

    2: Exactly. In Star Wars AI technology is so cheap and plentiful that a ten year old slave can build one. Antigravity technology is so abundant almost everything has it. Finally starships are much like the automobiles of today. Billions of sentients own one or more.

  8. #10768
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Actually we are going by the rules of canon for each franchise. Lucasfilm policy states the the films override EU where the two disagree.
    You're lying Scott.

    But there's no story past Episode VI, there's just no story. It's a certain story about Anakin Skywalker and once Anakin Skywalker dies, that's kind of the end of the story. There is no story about Luke Skywalker, I mean apart from the books. But there's three worlds: There's my world that I made up, there's the licensing world that's the books, the comics, all that kind of stuff, the games, which is their world, and then there's the fans' world, which is also very rich in imagination, but they don't always mesh. All I'm in charge of is my world. I can't be in charge of those other people's world, because I can't keep up with it."
    You have been disproven. Relent or discuss it with a moderator.

    As for acting like neutronium. did the Dyson sphere in "relic" act like nuetronium? Has any example in ST acted like what we consider nuetronium? Nope and Nope. So it is matters very little. It's said to be in there and acts no differently than the supposedly invulnerable nuetronium in ST so your screwed two times over.
    How about, I don't give a damn? You are attempting to dodge the point. It does not act like neutronium, and thus it is not neutronium. Your retarded argument is again, yet another sad attempt to try and make me forget that your argument is a) non-canon, and b) retarded.

    Care to try something else? Because frankly, a ten year old could debate better than you.

  9. #10769
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellblade8 View Post
    You're lying Scott.
    Really, show me where in lucasfilm canon policy that i am incorrect. The movie trumps EU where EU and movie clash. Remember the compnay sets policy not interviews. Becuase if we went by interview nothing after Gene's death would be canon in ST at all.

    You have been disproven. Relent or discuss it with a moderator.
    Like I said before an interview is not an official statement of canon. Otherwise every after October 24, 1991 would be non canon in Star trek as per Gene Roddenberry's comment of "It is not Star Trek until I say so."

    How about, I don't give a damn? You are attempting to dodge the point. It does not act like neutronium, and thus it is not neutronium. Your retarded argument is again, yet another sad attempt to try and make me forget that your argument is a) non-canon, and b) retarded.
    I love how you ignore that Nuetronium does not act any different in Star trek than it does in Star Wars. However it is canon according to Lucasfilm canon policy. Your tired attempts to disprove a black and white statements with out of context interview answers is highly amusing however.


    Care to try something else? Because frankly, a ten year old could debate better than you.
    Why would I try a different tactic when i am indeed winning. Especially sinxce you can't even recognize that you are hoisting yourself by your own petard.

  10. #10770
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    The TK event that destroyed the dinosaurs through nuclear winter was only 1,000 gigatons. Does earth look destroyed to you?
    I dunno. You tell me.

    They could still, logically, focus their fire into one point and make it to the core, and cause the destruction of a planet. Would take more work than Death Star, but would work. If a 54 isoton explosion in Trek can destroy a small planet (Voyager episode "The Omege Directive"), and we know how strong those are from calculations posted on an earlier page, than it should be possible for fighters to pull it off if they were smart and organized about it.

  11. #10771
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    Quote Originally Posted by daveeb View Post
    I dunno. You tell me.

    They could still, logically, focus their fire into one point and make it to the core, and cause the destruction of a planet. Would take more work than Death Star, but would work. If a 54 isoton explosion in Trek can destroy a small planet (Voyager episode "The Omege Directive"), and we know how strong those are from calculations posted on an earlier page, than it should be possible for fighters to pull it off if they were smart and organized about it.
    Okay, to effectively destroy a palnet takes a level of firepower almost unimaginable. Just to break up the gravitational binding energy you would have to provide as the total power as our sun outputs in seven years. Now that is for a slow breakup that could take days. For a faster one like Alderaan it takes much more.

    However in "The Omega Directive" Harry Kim's comment was made in a joking manner. Even if that was not true the fact that we never see it destroy the planet puts lie to his statement. Remember dialog means nothing without visuals to back it up.

  12. #10772
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Actually Droid soldiers are only as competent as their commanders and do not think creatively, much like borg. Clone troopers are indeed competent warrior and much more capable of a full scale war than anything we have seen in Star Trek. I could provide a comprehensive list but I will make a short summary below.
    Please, the droid army is nothing short of retarded. They couldn't even show the intelligence to at least tie up or lock up a target.

    Star Trek trooper
    Weapons: Semi Automatic energy weapon or Shoulder fired grenade launcher. Some races carry bladed weapons as back up, but these races also have tendency to favor reckless charges with melee weapons
    Armor: None
    Vehicles: Dune buggy type Fast Attack vehicles made for scouting purposes. Light shuttle craft.
    Artillery: Mortar based Photon Grenade
    A shuttle is able to vaporize a semi.

    Star Wars trooper
    Weapons: Fully automatic Light reapeating blasters, blaster rifles, heavy repeating blaster, shoulder fired missile launchers, grenade launchers, flame throwers, Magnacasters and vibroblades.
    Armor: Standardized Medium weight environmental armor or Space worthy powered armor
    Vehicles: Assorted from Personal Walkers, to mammoth tanks, hover APC's, Speeders, and antistarship cannons. They also have heavily armed landing shuttles.
    Artillery: Concussion missles. mortars, and light antiaircraft artillery.
    Most of which have about the firepower of a tank. A hand phaser could down an AT-AT

    See the difference?
    Yes, despite the varity of ground base arming, UFP technology is far superior.


    Quote, this was indeed true as of Battle of Endor, byut the Rebels were famous for daring use of squadrons of elites fighters taking down small capital ships. And the Mon Cal designs were easily the toughest starships in the galaxy thanks to their back up shielding.
    Wow, so ships that are armed with grenade level firepower are famous for downing warships.

    Imperial standards just keep climbing, don't they?

    Actually, Alderaan, naboo, and Camaas were the only known peaceful planets. Look at the Wookies and their standing army, and the Gungan's/ What everybody didn't want was an army under the control of the Chancellor.
    Is that why the Republic was having such a big problem with putting together an army? And the Wookies would rather seem to be the exception.

    Appalling becuase there was HUNDREDS of Trade Federation cruisers in orbit and maybe a hundred fighters on all of Naboo. Yeah, real fair fight there.
    Ah, that would explain why the warships didn't zoom in after the lead ship was destroyed, and put the small fighters out of their misery.

    Oh, wait...


    Well each planet had it's own defense forces and technically could pledge them in time of war, but most planets had scaled them back to the point they could defend home if push came to shove. Such is the price of 1500 years of peace.
    Ah yes, that explains the vast amounts of planetary defenses we see throughout the series.

    Oops.

  13. #10773
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Really, show me where in lucasfilm canon policy that i am incorrect. The movie trumps EU where EU and movie clash. Remember the compnay sets policy not interviews. Becuase if we went by interview nothing after Gene's death would be canon in ST at all.
    You are attempting to avoid my point again, by using the age old tactic of claiming hypocrisy.

    And again, Gene did not own Star Trek, Paramount did, and they saw TV shows and movies are canon.





    Like I said before an interview is not an official statement of canon. Otherwise every after October 24, 1991 would be non canon in Star trek as per Gene Roddenberry's comment of "It is not Star Trek until I say so."
    Avoiding my argument by changing the subject. We are talking about Star Wars, not Star Trek.

    I love how you ignore that Nuetronium does not act any different in Star trek than it does in Star Wars. However it is canon according to Lucasfilm canon policy.
    So what? Please tell me how this at all matters when we are talking about Star Wars? Star Trek neutronium hasn't ever been used on Star Trek ships, save for the Think Tank one, and I never claimed it was uber powerful, or even like neutronium. It is irrelevent to the debate since it does not come into play.

    You want to make it an issue, since you want to justify your violation of Lucasfilm canon policy, and then try to cover it with a smokescreen by claiming that I am violating canon policy.

    I am not. Do try again.

    Your tired attempts to disprove a black and white statements with out of context interview answers is highly amusing however
    Or for those of us who are too young to understand; he means that he won't let something as petty and silly as George Lucas get in the way of saying what he has to for Star Wars to win.

    And by using the words 'black and white', 'out of context', and 'highly amusing' he hopes to force you to believe that he has any authority on the subject, rather than coming off as a condescending dillweed.

    Why would I try a different tactic when i am indeed winning. Especially sinxce you can't even recognize that you are hoisting yourself by your own petard.
    Ah yes, because you are surely convincing anyone here that you are by any sense of the word "winning".

    Sky, this is why you need to keep away from drugs and stay in school.

  14. #10774
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellblade8 View Post
    Please, the droid army is nothing short of retarded. They couldn't even show the intelligence to at least tie up or lock up a target.
    They were not ordered too.

    A shuttle is able to vaporize a semi.
    Actually it was destroyed, not vaporized. I see no vapor.

    Most of which have about the firepower of a tank. A hand phaser could down an AT-AT
    Again you have nop proof of this. We see regualr everyday packing crates bloock phaser and disrupter fire. The shoulder mounted launcher used in Insurrection was actually less spectacular than the present day 40mm Grenade Launcher.

    Yes, despite the varity of ground base arming, UFP technology is far superior.
    You have not proved this even once.

    Wow, so ships that are armed with grenade level firepower are famous for downing warships.
    Excuse me, but i have never seen a grenade do anything like what an X-wing can do. You would have to prove quantifiably that your assertions are correct, especially since canon inforamtion is working against you.


    Is that why the Republic was having such a big problem with putting together an army? And the Wookies would rather seem to be the exception.
    They were having a probelm becuase politics is hell. Wookies were not the only exception, just notable ones.

    Ah, that would explain why the warships didn't zoom in after the lead ship was destroyed, and put the small fighters out of their misery.

    Oh, wait...
    Actually in the first scene around naboo we can see there are hundreds of ships in orbit. Later when the planet is already subdued the Trade Federation only left one driod control ship behind. Did you even watch the movie?

    Ah yes, that explains the vast amounts of planetary defenses we see throughout the series.

    Oops.
    Actually we only saw one planet without some measure of defenses and that was Naboo. Even Alderaan had shields as did Endor and Hoth. Mustafar was never assaulted of course, but it was only a mining facility.

  15. #10775
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    However in "The Omega Directive" Harry Kim's comment was made in a joking manner. Even if that was not true the fact that we never see it destroy the planet puts lie to his statement. Remember dialog means nothing without visuals to back it up.
    I suppose that's why Kim was shaking like a cell phone set to virbrate?

  16. #10776
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellblade8 View Post
    You are attempting to avoid my point again, by using the age old tactic of claiming hypocrisy.

    And again, Gene did not own Star Trek, Paramount did, and they saw TV shows and movies are canon.
    Actually I was pointing out the facts and correcting your wrong assumption.

    Gene did indeed own the creative rights to Star Trek. Until he died Paramount had to do whatever he said with the projects.

    Avoiding my argument by changing the subject. We are talking about Star Wars, not Star Trek.
    Actually you are attempting to hold a double standard here. It's a good thing you are not in charge.

    So what? Please tell me how this at all matters when we are talking about Star Wars? Star Trek neutronium hasn't ever been used on Star Trek ships, save for the Think Tank one, and I never claimed it was uber powerful, or even like neutronium. It is irrelevent to the debate since it does not come into play.
    Actually Neutronium in Star Wars was used in the Doomsday device, the Dyson Sphere and in a bunker renegade Jem H'dar were holding. In each case the material did not act as real world nuetronium should react, theoretically. Remember we are best guessing on nuetronium, it's not solid fact.

    So your argument is moot as it doesn;t matter if it exhibits the gravity or not. For all we know some repulsor technology could be used to keep it from crushing everyone. We do know however that it is used in much the same way as it is in some Star trek stuff.

    You want to make it an issue, since you want to justify your violation of Lucasfilm canon policy, and then try to cover it with a smokescreen by claiming that I am violating canon policy.

    I am not. Do try again.
    Actually you are attempting to take a quote about movie making and apply it to lucasfilm canon policy. You never once quote actual Lucasfilm canon policy, nor even acknowledge that Georges comments had nothing whatsoever to do with the canon policy.

    I am not the one using smokescreens.

    Or for those of us who are too young to understand; he means that he won't let something as petty and silly as George Lucas get in the way of saying what he has to for Star Wars to win.
    For those of you too idiotic to not recognize the difference of an offhanded out of topic interview from an official canon policy I will remind you. Lucas was being interviewed as a filmmaker and spoke as one. He was not commenting on Lucasfilm canon policy.


    The rest of Hellblade's reply is simply an ad hominem attack.

    Since he is not adding anything to the conversation I suggest just ignoring him.

  17. #10777
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellblade8 View Post
    I suppose that's why Kim was shaking like a cell phone set to virbrate?
    Did it destroy a planet? No. So he was just obviously a little unnerved to be working on a weapon almost three times as powerful as a normal photon torpedo

  18. #10778
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    They were not ordered too.


    Droid 1: ROGER! ROGER! Should we lock these guys up?

    Droid 2: ROGER! ROGER! No, we were not ordered to lock up these potential threats!

    Droid 3: ROGER! ROGER! Look, a Jedi!

    Droid 1: ROGER! ROGER! Rather than shooting him down, because he's the one we're looking for, let's have him get into melee range so he can cut us down.

    Droid 2: ROGER! ROGER! Now that's using your software!

    Ah yes, SW military competence at its finest.



    Actually it was destroyed, not vaporized. I see no vapor.
    Call it whatever you want. The point is, that neutron particles made it go bye bye.

    Again you have nop proof of this. We see regualr everyday packing crates bloock phaser and disrupter fire. The shoulder mounted launcher used in Insurrection was actually less spectacular than the present day 40mm Grenade Launcher.
    Provide evidence that SW armor is as effective as ST packing crates, which resist higher level of firepower.

    Again, we see the sharp wit of TW Scott.

    You have not proved this even once.
    Allow me to.

    Phasers: Can vaporize entire people, and can be set to wide beam, as well as a pulse setting that is basicly an auto kill. Phasers also have automatic lock on abilities, allowing them to fire off angle.

    Shuttles: Shuttles are fairly easy for the UFP to build, as we see with Voyager losing about shuttles, the Delta Flyer, and then building more shuttles and another Delta Flyer. While it was stuck in the Delta Quadrant and on limited supplies. These shuttles are capable of vaporizing (or disintigration, or go away beams for those of us with sticks shover up our rectums) most of a semi away. This shows us that they easily outgun the AT-AT, walkers, support crafts, and fighters that the Empire/Republic uses.

    Excuse me, but i have never seen a grenade do anything like what an X-wing can do. You would have to prove quantifiably that your assertions are correct, especially since canon inforamtion is working against you.
    Proton torpedoes have shown nothing above grenade level firepower, as demonstrated when they hit that shield generator, and even if you want to scream it being unfair, we saw one taken down by a tank, with 21st century tank firepower.


    They were having a probelm becuase politics is hell. Wookies were not the only exception, just notable ones.
    Or more likely, the Senators in Star Wars were even more incompetent than Bush on an overdose of sleeping pills. Which is saying something.

    Actually in the first scene around naboo we can see there are hundreds of ships in orbit. Later when the planet is already subdued the Trade Federation only left one driod control ship behind. Did you even watch the movie?
    I apoligize, I didn't realize that Trade Federation tactics were so poor that 99.9% of the ships leave before the job is done.

    How could I have been so foolish?!

    Actually we only saw one planet without some measure of defenses and that was Naboo. Even Alderaan had shields as did Endor and Hoth. Mustafar was never assaulted of course, but it was only a mining facility.
    And yet, beyond a shield, we have no other evidence of planetary defenses aside from some fighters and overglorified security officers.

  19. #10779
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Did it destroy a planet? No. So he was just obviously a little unnerved to be working on a weapon almost three times as powerful as a normal photon torpedo
    We never see it used.

    Of course, there is an instance in Deja Q when Riker suggested they just blow up a moon.

  20. #10780
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellblade8 View Post
    Droid 1: ROGER! ROGER! Should we lock these guys up?

    Droid 2: ROGER! ROGER! No, we were not ordered to lock up these potential threats!

    Droid 3: ROGER! ROGER! Look, a Jedi!

    Droid 1: ROGER! ROGER! Rather than shooting him down, because he's the one we're looking for, let's have him get into melee range so he can cut us down.

    Droid 2: ROGER! ROGER! Now that's using your software!

    Ah yes, SW military competence at its finest.
    Actually, Droid 1 would never have asked if they should lock up the prisoners. They were ordered to hold them until processed and they did. They were not ordered to round up anyone else so they didn't until it was obvious the people apprioaching were trying to escape. However in actual combat they are much more effective.

    Call it whatever you want. The point is, that neutron particles made it go bye bye.
    Well, that is a chain reaction weapon and it was the Delta Flyer if I am correct. However a semi is not a armored and shielded tank.

    Provide evidence that SW armor is as effective as ST packing crates, which resist higher level of firepower.

    Again, we see the sharp wit of TW Scott.
    Actually since in SW we know a blaster tears huge chunks out of starship bulkheads and blows chunks out of concrete walls I would say you would have to prove that a weapon that does not even leave a scorch mark on paint (phaser) can pierce the armor.



    Phasers: Can vaporize entire people, and can be set to wide beam, as well as a pulse setting that is basicly an auto kill. Phasers also have automatic lock on abilities, allowing them to fire off angle.
    We have seen no evidence of a wide angle kill shot being made. One is threatened, but not made. We have negative proof of autoaiming features as Nemesis alone presents when Riker and Worf both missed the Reman at five meters when he calmly walked across the hall with no cover. And we have never seen a vaporization, only a destruction. Vaporization is something else entirely.

    Shuttles: Shuttles are fairly easy for the UFP to build, as we see with Voyager losing about shuttles, the Delta Flyer, and then building more shuttles and another Delta Flyer. While it was stuck in the Delta Quadrant and on limited supplies. These shuttles are capable of vaporizing (or disintigration, or go away beams for those of us with sticks shover up our rectums) most of a semi away. This shows us that they easily outgun the AT-AT, walkers, support crafts, and fighters that the Empire/Republic uses.
    Actually, you have not proven that disintegrating a truck made of steel takes more energy than heavily damaging craft made of durasteel. Seems nonsensical to me to assume that a unarmed truck is tougher than an armored attack craft.

    Proton torpedoes have shown nothing above grenade level firepower, as demonstrated when they hit that shield generator, and even if you want to scream it being unfair, we saw one taken down by a tank, with 21st century tank firepower.
    Ah, stupidity in it's truest form. The round globes over the bridge tower of an ISD are targeting sensors as many, many books and Lucas himself has agreed. Remember the Exectutioner only lost bridge deflectors to the explosion not ALL deflectors. The Torpedo that stuck the Sesor array had to destroy a 70+ meter diameter almost sphere full of heavy electronics and had to do it explosively. Show me a grenade today that can do that. Show me a tank shell today that can do that. And remeber it has to penetrate at least a half a meter of nuetronium impregnated durarmor.

    Or more likely, the Senators in Star Wars were even more incompetent than Bush on an overdose of sleeping pills. Which is saying something.
    Actually when you have two or three thousand senators all wanting different things life gets tough.

    I apoligize, I didn't realize that Trade Federation tactics were so poor that 99.9% of the ships leave before the job is done.
    How could I have been so foolish?!
    I never said those merchants were strategic geniuses, of course the ships might have been needed for another conquest. Besides as far as they knew the job was done.

    And yet, beyond a shield, we have no other evidence of planetary defenses aside from some fighters and overglorified security officers.
    On naboo yes that is true, but on hoth which only had a temporary bases there was a planetary defense gun.

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