Star Wars vs Star Trek

[Saquist]

Typical of Scott to ignore the information he doesn't like...

Too bad that "trench gun" has been proven, time and time and time again by multiple people from multiple timespans of this topics life to have about the same destructive potential as a standard phaser rifle...

That is exactly what he did.

First of all, nothing in Star Trek has withstood anything even remotely close to the level of the Death Star. The energy to just defeat the gravitational binding energy of a 1G planet is equivalent to the total output of our sun for 7 years. Enterpise D couldn't even survive a day at .5 AU from a G-type star that was solar flaring.

No one said the Enterprise could survive a strike from a Death Star. Why are you reaching for the most inane response you can muster?

We have seen Photon Torpedoes used a variety of time on a planet and at no time were they even as impressive as the one hundred ton blast you can watch on youtube. Yet a few of these Torpedoes is enough to severaly weaken the shields of a starship. The only time that the photn torpedoes were more impressive is in Rise and that was a singular torpedo that may have been modified. Even then the dang thing failed to do more than shatter a brittle asteroid.

Not one time?
Skin of Evil doesn't Count?
DS9 For the Uniform: Defiant's Quantum torps? effecting a whole planet.
Torpedoes were fired a plenty during "The Die is Cast"

So what you're saying is that everytime you say something obviously wrong and counter to everything in canon we have to catch you because where you can get away with saying something false you will at least make the attempt?

Face it, we have never seen Star Trek deflect an attack that was on the scale of the trench gun that vaporized asteroids in ESB.

Even though the Federation Type Ten phaser outclasses the that "trench gun" by some 50 to 60 times. Even though we know in todays physics that antimatter reactions could easily match and then exceed atomic explosions because any release of antimatter is 300 times the equivalent nuclear detonation?

I think your frolick through the field of dreams should come to and end at some point.


In all fairness if Star Trek was the Elephant and ISD opening up with all guns would be like 60 eight inch guns with HE warheads all handing directly ontop of the elephant at once.[/QUOTE]

[SkywalkerJedi]

There's a rpoblem though - if there are exposed spots, how the HELL is that armor airtight?

I never said it is air tight. Thats spacetrooper armor and RC armor. Their helmets have function as gas masks, not spacesuit.

[SkywalkerJedi]

First of all, nothing in Star Trek has withstood anything even remotely close to the level of the Death Star. The energy to just defeat the gravitational binding energy of a 1G planet is equivalent to the total output of our sun for 7 years. Enterpise D couldn't even survive a day at .5 AU from a G-type star that was solar flaring.

We have seen Photon Torpedoes used a variety of time on a planet and at no time were they even as impressive as the one hundred ton blast you can watch on youtube. Yet a few of these Torpedoes is enough to severaly weaken the shields of a starship. The only time that the photn torpedoes were more impressive is in Rise and that was a singular torpedo that may have been modified. Even then the dang thing failed to do more than shatter a brittle asteroid.

Face it, we have never seen Star Trek deflect an attack that was on the scale of the trench gun that vaporized asteroids in ESB.


In all fairness if Star Trek was the Elephant and ISD opening up with all guns would be like 60 eight inch guns with HE warheads all handing directly ontop of the elephant at once.

What on earth is a trench gun? It never vaporized the astroid, it blasted it to tiny peices ( I mean as small as dust ).

[SkywalkerJedi]

Typical of Scott to ignore the information he doesn't like...

Too bad that "trench gun" has been proven, time and time and time again by multiple people from multiple timespans of this topics life to have about the same destructive potential as a standard phaser rifle...

They rarely used their heavy guns in Star Wars. In A New Hope, they want the Blockade Runner whole, because Princess Leia is abord and she is apprently one of the few people abord that know about the Death Star plans, and she is a member of the imperial senate. Not to add that she knows about the Rebel Base, so they can't afford to hit the Blockade Runner with heavy turbolasers, neither they used light turbolasers or ion cannons. In The Empire Striks Back, they again never used their heavy turbolaser because they want the Falcon "alive" because they want Han Solo, he was a traitor of the Empire. They might have used the Heavy Turbolasers on the astroid, but they fired it from the front on the ISD, Heavy Turbolasers are on the side, so they might have been using long-range turbolasers. In Return of the Jedi, they didn't use their heavy turbolasers. The fleet that the attack the rebels are ordered not to fire by Palpatine. In Phantom Menece, the Trade Federation didn't fire their Heavy Turbolasers on the queen's ship because they want her alive. They did fire their on the threed fighters, but it never showed the remnants of the fighter, so there is no proof it is weak. In Attack of the Clones, there wasn't a single turbolaser shot fired. In Revenge of the Sith, they did fire their heavy turbolasers, but it is a Ventor vs a Destroyer /Carrier, the Ventors won, again it is a capital ship vs capital ship fight and they won't fire on a crashing ship or destroyed ship because they are needed elsewhere.
For reference here is a Destroyer /carrier.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Provi...rier/destroyer

[antaran_1979]

First of all, nothing in Star Trek has withstood anything even remotely close to the level of the Death Star. The energy to just defeat the gravitational binding energy of a 1G planet is equivalent to the total output of our sun for 7 years. Enterpise D couldn't even survive a day at .5 AU from a G-type star that was solar flaring.

We have seen Photon Torpedoes used a variety of time on a planet and at no time were they even as impressive as the one hundred ton blast you can watch on youtube. Yet a few of these Torpedoes is enough to severaly weaken the shields of a starship. The only time that the photn torpedoes were more impressive is in Rise and that was a singular torpedo that may have been modified. Even then the dang thing failed to do more than shatter a brittle asteroid.

Face it, we have never seen Star Trek deflect an attack that was on the scale of the trench gun that vaporized asteroids in ESB.


In all fairness if Star Trek was the Elephant and ISD opening up with all guns would be like 60 eight inch guns with HE warheads all handing directly ontop of the elephant at once.

eh, that was because they are seldom shot by weapons as weak as those that shot the asteroids. but i think that the total firepower of the ISDs is not to be underesremated. they may have problems focusing all their fire on a single target, but still many of the ships in UFP should try and keep their distance, or stick with the warp strifes. i.e i don't think those Mirandas and Steemruners would like being hit by dosens of HTLs at the same time.

[antaran_1979]

What on earth is a trench gun? It never vaporized the astroid, it blasted it to tiny peices ( I mean as small as dust ).

he refers to the lightest form of TLs seen in the movies as trench guns because most of them apear to be fired from the trench on the ISD.

[antaran_1979]

They rarely used their heavy guns in Star Wars. In A New Hope, they want the Blockade Runner whole, because Princess Leia is abord and she is apprently one of the few people abord that know about the Death Star plans, and she is a member of the imperial senate. Not to add that she knows about the Rebel Base, so they can't afford to hit the Blockade Runner with heavy turbolasers, neither they used light turbolasers or ion cannons. In The Empire Striks Back, they again never used their heavy turbolaser because they want the Falcon "alive" because they want Han Solo, he was a traitor of the Empire. They might have used the Heavy Turbolasers on the astroid, but they fired it from the front on the ISD, Heavy Turbolasers are on the side, so they might have been using long-range turbolasers. In Return of the Jedi, they didn't use their heavy turbolasers. The fleet that the attack the rebels are ordered not to fire by Palpatine. In Phantom Menece, the Trade Federation didn't fire their Heavy Turbolasers on the queen's ship because they want her alive. They did fire their on the threed fighters, but it never showed the remnants of the fighter, so there is no proof it is weak. In Attack of the Clones, there wasn't a single turbolaser shot fired. In Revenge of the Sith, they did fire their heavy turbolasers, but it is a Ventor vs a Destroyer /Carrier, the Ventors won, again it is a capital ship vs capital ship fight and they won't fire on a crashing ship or destroyed ship because they are needed elsewhere.
For reference here is a Destroyer /carrier.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Provi...rier/destroyer

here are the BIG GUNS finally:

the only example of imerial HTLs used (that i could find). the Rebels use them in 1 more scene.

[Saquist]

i have a question..
hOw do you miss something as big as a mon calmari cruiser in orbit of the death star?

[USS Athens]

Sorry, but that's a load of bullshit, we have it constantly used as a method of the yield of a weapon. The Omega Directive states this:

KIM: "This looks like enough for a 50 isoton explosion."

TUVOK: "Fifty-four to be exact."

Your claim is retarded.

Hell, even taking the 81.9 megatons as the output for a six isoton explosive, we can plainly see the UFP can make stronger explosives, such as the 136.5 megaton explosive, or the 80 isoton explosive, which would be 1,092 megatons.

And that's all still low end. High end suggests that even the basic one isoton explosive is 88.9 megatons, and that a class six.two-five explosive can perform about 555 megatons.

Here's what Memory Alpha has to say.

Isoton

[Kittamaru]

I never said it is air tight. Thats spacetrooper armor and RC armor. Their helmets have function as gas masks, not spacesuit.

Wookiepedia says that armor is the same armor used by normal stormtroopers and is SUPPOSEDLY airtight and highly resistant to thermal and kinetic damage!

But we see, time and again, it isn't!

Hell, one of the troopers bonked he head on the door frame!!!

[Kittamaru]

They rarely used their heavy guns in Star Wars. In A New Hope, they want the Blockade Runner whole, because Princess Leia is abord and she is apprently one of the few people abord that know about the Death Star plans, and she is a member of the imperial senate. Not to add that she knows about the Rebel Base, so they can't afford to hit the Blockade Runner with heavy turbolasers, neither they used light turbolasers or ion cannons. In The Empire Striks Back, they again never used their heavy turbolaser because they want the Falcon "alive" because they want Han Solo, he was a traitor of the Empire. They might have used the Heavy Turbolasers on the astroid, but they fired it from the front on the ISD, Heavy Turbolasers are on the side, so they might have been using long-range turbolasers. In Return of the Jedi, they didn't use their heavy turbolasers. The fleet that the attack the rebels are ordered not to fire by Palpatine. In Phantom Menece, the Trade Federation didn't fire their Heavy Turbolasers on the queen's ship because they want her alive. They did fire their on the threed fighters, but it never showed the remnants of the fighter, so there is no proof it is weak. In Attack of the Clones, there wasn't a single turbolaser shot fired. In Revenge of the Sith, they did fire their heavy turbolasers, but it is a Ventor vs a Destroyer /Carrier, the Ventors won, again it is a capital ship vs capital ship fight and they won't fire on a crashing ship or destroyed ship because they are needed elsewhere.
For reference here is a Destroyer /carrier.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Provi...rier/destroyer

Skywalker, this statement is sadly false. We have shown multiple times where HTL fire is far weaker than even the old Class 10 phaser array... much less the Sovereigns Class 12's

[Kittamaru]

Here's what Memory Alpha has to say.

Isoton

To expunge:

* A 25 isoton explosion can destroy an entire city within seconds. (VOY: "Living Witness")

* A 54 isoton explosion can blow up a small planet (VOY: "The Omega Directive")

* Photon torpedoes with class-6 warheads have the explosive yield of 200 isotons. (VOY: "Scorpion, Part II")

* A 5 million isoton explosion can affect an entire star system. The shock wave has a dispersive force radius of 5 light years. (VOY: "Scorpion, Part II")

* In the year 2375, the Malon civilization produced 6 billion isotons of antimatter waste as an industrial byproduct daily. (VOY: "Night")

* Malon export vessels can transport from over 90 million up to 4 trillion isotons of antimatter waste. (VOY: "Night", "Juggernaut")

That's a LOT of boom... and what we're seeing here is that it'd take one photon torpedo to destroy a small planet... and we know that a Tricobalt Device can affect an entire star system, thus ~ 5mil isoton warhead on that baby...

[SkywalkerJedi]

the only example of imerial HTLs used (that i could find). the Rebels use them in 1 more scene.

They didn't fire, thats Palpatine's orders. Home One never fired a shot in the battle, if it did, it is a Mon Calmiri Cruiser vs a Super Star Destroyer.

[SkywalkerJedi]

i have a question..
hOw do you miss something as big as a mon calmari cruiser in orbit of the death star?

Because they didn't fire. The Death Star blast didn't miss, they hit another Mon Calmiri Crusier.

[SkywalkerJedi]

Wookiepedia says that armor is the same armor used by normal stormtroopers and is SUPPOSEDLY airtight and highly resistant to thermal and kinetic damage!

But we see, time and again, it isn't!

Hell, one of the troopers bonked he head on the door frame!!!

The spacetrooper armor in the Thrawn Crisis look very much like a spacetroopers, but they are airtight.

[USS Athens]

It wasn't the Avenger.

The problem is if you ask Lucas now he'd say what does it look like. At worst it looks like the bridge tower was shorn off. However if it is indeed the Avenger then it most certainly was not destroyed or even damaged.

Um "NO F*CKING LOST OFFENSIVE CAPABILITY!?!" Targeting scanners!?! Command crew!?! Listen to yourself. That's worse than taking out an ST ship's bridge.

Supposing the worst for the SW side, we still have a ship that has lost NONE of it's offenseive capability, just the targeting radar and some sensitive sanners, as well as soe comms equipment, and command crew. In a fleet engagement the vessel would still be a threat.

The weapons need targeting scanners, it's not all about the guns, you need something to guide the gun. Now I know that's very difficult for an extremist warsie like you to comprehend... but god TW, just realize sometimes just how stupid your posts are.

Did Tee-Dubya ever get back to me on this?

[Kittamaru]

Jedi, I'm going by what I see in the movies... you don't "SEE" the armor in the books!

And if your average stormtrooper armor is that pointless... why bother? I'd rather go with the personal shield emitters federation ground forces that expect heavy hostile activity get...

[Kittamaru]

Did Tee-Dubya ever get back to me on this?

Oh, of COURSE not! Like he'd EVER admit he made a mistake

[SkywalkerJedi]

Jedi, I'm going by what I see in the movies... you don't "SEE" the armor in the books!

And if your average stormtrooper armor is that pointless... why bother? I'd rather go with the personal shield emitters federation ground forces that expect heavy hostile activity get...

True, but you see them in Clone Wars. They are not really pointless, they protech aginst Slugthrower and Bioweapons, and sometimes explodsions. Droidikas can handle them, or they use personal shields too.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Personal_energy_shield

[SkywalkerJedi]

Did Tee-Dubya ever get back to me on this?

If it is not avenger, all the ships present at Hoth, execpt the one disabled by Ion Cannons, are present for other battles afterwards.