Star Wars vs Star Trek

[SkywalkerJedi]

You have yet to prove:

Overpowered
Out paces
Out of Luck

Our calculations have, multiple times, put the average HTL blast at FAR below the average Shuttlecraft phaser bank...

And tell me the books that the Vong have worked with the Empire or Alliance in... Id' like to read those.

Star Wars legacy, and the parts of Unifying Force.

[SkywalkerJedi]

Also, Scott - it's ALL of Trek vs ALL of Wars

OR

Each race acting as they normally would in Present Day

That would seriously screw over Star Wars as, at the end of the highest cannon you guys have, most of Wars hates the Empire, the Empire is failing, the Alliance is in distress from lack of resources, and half the rest of the races don't even exist.

Republic and CIS.

[SkywalkerJedi]

So then you are saying Skyalker and half the OTHER Wars fans on this site are wrong and you alone are right.

Man, complex much?

What the, he is the only mistaken one.

[SkywalkerJedi]

evidence shows they did fire the main HTLs in RoTJ.

After it is too late.

[SkywalkerJedi]

but then there's no contest. in ST there are far to many deus-ex machina aliens to make an interesting fight. i'll stick with Empire vs UFP. easy to make educated guesse by on-screen evidence. that's how i got mu 2 scenarios so far:
1. surprise attack by the empire on Earth, Vulcan and similar (regardless of the method they optained the hyperspace rutes) results in Empire victory

2. long frontal war of atrition and the UFP wins on the defencive, because the Empire crumbles on itself.

i'm still working on the tactical parameters for the scenrio TWS proposed. i've had work obligations the past 3 weekends (read i've had no weekends), so this goes rather slow. and i can't find any strike cruiser mods for bridge commander (i have both GCS and ISD2). if anyone has them, please inform me.

I perfer CIS and Republic vs Klingon and UFP please.

[SkywalkerJedi]

Here's the Federation's answer

They send a fleet of UFP fighters with ten year old children, and have them pilot into the shuttle bays, and drop CIS shields from there...oh, wait I forgot that the UFP isn't tactically incompetent.

WEll, here we go.



Do you mind telling me what all that shit means? And then prove that it exists
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lucrehulk-class_LH-3210_cargo_freighter
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dread..._heavy_cruiser

Acording to the flaw in your qoute. It says that everything after Anakin dies is not canon ( I am assuming that qoute means there is no C-canon for now ), it never said anything about before Anakin was born or During Anakin's time. So the frigates and Dreadnaughts are canon by your standards.
Oh I forgot here is the link about diffrent classes of Frigates
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Frigate
remember those ships are just disraction ships.

First of all, how is the Empire going to FIND Vulcan? They've never been there before.
Not Empire, Republic and CIS. They will first put homing beacons on many diffrent ships ( they can cloak and use other stealth devices to get close ) and track their movments ( I mean thousands of ships tracked ), they will find a pattren of their movements, then they go to the place where they think is their "base". Homing beacons work in very long ranges.

Isn't that what you just said? The Vulcans and the Humans were the founding members.
There are others.
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Federation_members
Vulcan and Earth is not the only founding members


Wow, it really is nice of the Federation to hand over a map full of starbases, and other tactically important positions.
Again, they can track the ships movments. I can't say they can get all the Starbases, but they can get the important ones.

Assuming this would actually work, you do realize that you'd just make way for a Dominion invasion force right? You know, the people with star busting bombs, and disregard to life?
The Republic won't completely destroy the UFP, my tactic is for emergency uses when they seriously need to take Earth and destroy starbases. I assume they won't start the war in the first places, and they are a peacful organization, so they will show mercy ( alot of mercy ). If the Dominions do attack, the UFP might even allie with the Republic, because I got to admit that Republic have advantages to have UFP as an allie, because it is their galaxy, they have the maps!.The Republic will not even destroy half of UFP, because the Jedi will do something about it if they did.


First of all, the Republic never did this in the movies, or even the TV shows. Second of all, they have no idea where they're going. The Federation is not going to give them the key weakpoints of their nation. That's retarded, and you're either tactically incompetent, or delusional if you think that this idea would even work. Federation firepower is superior to SW firepower, by spreading yourself out, you'd just be making the Republic into a menace, not a threat. Their best bet would be to bunch together and gain a foothold into the Alpha/Beta Quadrant, that way the UFP won't take the wormhole and mine it like they did in the Bajoran system.

Once again, the Republic is a peacful nation, and CIS is not large enough to do that to. Republic never fought in another galaxy, so they will adapt to new tactics. The CIS did simular things in Clone Wars, by draw the Republic's attention to the outer rims then attack coruscant.

[Hellblade8]

[QUOTE=SkywalkerJedi;1822955]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lucre...argo_freighter
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dread..._heavy_cruiser

Acording to the flaw in your qoute. It says that everything after Anakin dies is not canon ( I am assuming that qoute means there is no C-canon for now ), it never said anything about before Anakin was born or During Anakin's time. So the frigates and Dreadnaughts are canon by your standards.
Oh I forgot here is the link about diffrent classes of Frigates
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Frigate
remember those ships are just disraction ships.

Sky, that isn't how it works. Distorting the meaning of Lucas's point is dishonest.

Not Empire, Republic and CIS. They will first put homing beacons on many diffrent ships ( they can cloak and use other stealth devices to get close ) and track their movments ( I mean thousands of ships tracked ), they will find a pattren of their movements, then they go to the place where they think is their "base". Homing beacons work in very long ranges.

Okay, multiple of problems here. The first is that UFP ships have hull contact sensors, which means that if you put anything on their hull, they will know it. It would be like putting a watch on my arm while you're invisible. It just doesn't work.

And there's the problem that the ship is surronded by a a light deflector field to push away small objects like dust and rocks from the ship.

There are others.
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Federation_members
Vulcan and Earth is not the only founding members

While this is true, the Vulcans and the Terrans were considerd the founders, possibly becuase of their close relationship, but I'll grant you that. But this only makes it harder because you have to target four different planets.

Again, they can track the ships movments. I can't say they can get all the Starbases, but they can get the important ones.

How? They can't track anything that goes to lightspeed. The moment the Falcon went to lightspeed, they lost them. That's sorta makes it hard to track UFP ships.

The Republic won't completely destroy the UFP, my tactic is for emergency uses when they seriously need to take Earth and destroy starbases.

This is a Vs, which means that for some reason, they want each other dismantled. The UFP would not stand to be taken over by the Republic, or the CIS.

I assume they won't start the war in the first places, and they are a peacful organization, so they will show mercy ( alot of mercy ).

Neither would the Federation, but for some reason they are at war.

If the Dominions do attack, the UFP might even allie with the Republic, because I got to admit that Republic have advantages to have UFP as an allie, because it is their galaxy, they have the maps!.The Republic will not even destroy half of UFP, because the Jedi will do something about it if they did.

Multiple problems here. The Republic wouldn't do something like that, it goes against their nature. If they took down the Federation, they would want to turn those planets into members, not just leave a shattered UFP lying around.

Furthermore, the UFP doesn't have much information on Dominion space.

Once again, the Republic is a peacful nation, and CIS is not large enough to do that to. Republic never fought in another galaxy, so they will adapt to new tactics. The CIS did simular things in Clone Wars, by draw the Republic's attention to the outer rims then attack coruscant.

That isn't adaption. That's tactical combat, by luring out your forces to one area, you can attack their weakpoint. It is a very old, and obvious trick. It would be a pitty to believe that the Republic would fall for this.

[SkywalkerJedi]

[QUOTE=Hellblade8;1822985]

Sky, that isn't how it works. Distorting the meaning of Lucas's point is dishonest.
Can you explain exactly what it means then please?


Okay, multiple of problems here. The first is that UFP ships have hull contact sensors, which means that if you put anything on their hull, they will know it. It would be like putting a watch on my arm while you're invisible. It just doesn't work.
Okay then No.1 tracking plan doesn't work. They can track the ship by using a probe capable of hyperspace following it.( it is on cloak and other stealth technics.
And there's the problem that the ship is surronded by a a light deflector field to push away small objects like dust and rocks from the ship.
When they are transporting cargo, they wait for it then go in the bubble. Or they can track it like I said before: a probe capable of hyperspace.


While this is true, the Vulcans and the Terrans were considerd the founders, possibly becuase of their close relationship, but I'll grant you that. But this only makes it harder because you have to target four different planets.
It make it harder for the Starfleet to contrentrate on diffrent planets. Plus I said they will attack other planets, Starbases, shipyards and other bases.



How? They can't track anything that goes to lightspeed. The moment the Falcon went to lightspeed, they lost them. That's sorta makes it hard to track UFP ships.
Beacon that is floating slightly above the hull. They never used it in the movies, but I recon that they can mix a Probe with a Beacon.

This is a Vs, which means that for some reason, they want each other dismantled. The UFP would not stand to be taken over by the Republic, or the CIS.
If the Dominions attack, and the Republic are helping UFP by accident, I bet that UFP will try to allie with the Republic, rememeber: The enemy of my enemy is my friend. I am not saying it beacuse UFP is better, I am saying that beacause if they destroyed UFP the Jedi will interfer and stop the Republic from destorying UFP. And UFP have the maps of Milky Way.




Multiple problems here. The Republic wouldn't do something like that, it goes against their nature. If they took down the Federation, they would want to turn those planets into members, not just leave a shattered UFP lying around.

If they did destroy the UFP, the Jedi Code will do something about it. Jedi have the all the Sector armies.

Furthermore, the UFP doesn't have much information on Dominion space.
Atleast they have maps of Alpha and Beta qudrant.


That isn't adaption. That's tactical combat, by luring out your forces to one area, you can attack their weakpoint. It is a very old, and obvious trick. It would be a pitty to believe that the Republic would fall for this.

It is not the armys fault, it is Palpatine's he is behind everything.

[Hellblade8]

It is not the armys fault, it is Palpatine's he is behind everything.

That's nice and all, but he'd still be around wouldn't he? A powerful nation with ships and technology far stronger than anything the Republic has fielded would scare the shit out of him, and because of that fear to lose power, he'll try and destroy the Federation.

[Cazzo]

but the jedi could kick ass

Borg assimilates Jedi, now we have Borg-Jedi ......... game over.

[Saquist]

Yes that is really more than likely but what would we be unleashing..
That's not enven something I want running loose.

[SkywalkerJedi]

That's nice and all, but he'd still be around wouldn't he? A powerful nation with ships and technology far stronger than anything the Republic has fielded would scare the shit out of him, and because of that fear to lose power, he'll try and destroy the Federation.

No he won't if Anakin is still in the Outer Rim Seiges, then Palpatine would of been killed.

[SkywalkerJedi]

You haven't yet proven Star Trek have better ships.

[SkywalkerJedi]

Borg assimilates Jedi, now we have Borg-Jedi ......... game over.

Jedi have the force, and a lightsaber. If they can't adapt to Klingon's melee weapons, they can't adapt to lightsabers. There is no way that the Borgs can adpat to the force. Most likey they will send Clone Troopers with the best vibrobaldes first, Borgs can't adpat to it. ( If they can adapt to lightsabers, they then use Vibroblades strenghend by the force )

[SkywalkerJedi]

Yes that is really more than likely but what would we be unleashing..
That's not enven something I want running loose.

But there are Siths thats stronger then Borg-Jedi. Darth Revan, Darth Vader, Darth Sidious, Darth Bane, Darth Plagus, Darth Meleek, Darth Tyrance, and pretty much every Sith in the Brotherhood of Darkness and the Sith Order( I forgot and the Star Forge is a Sith weapon too ). There are Dark Jedi too, like Ventress. I don't think they can assimulate Yoda, Windu, Skywalker, Kenobi, Luke Skywalker, and everyone on the Jedi High Concil. Plus if they are assimulated into the borg collective , they will have no mind at all and that means they will forget how to use the force. Plus Borg is more machine then man, the more machines they have, they weaker they are because they will lose midicorians. Not to mention they can reuse the forbidden technic of the Jedi Order ( The Sith know it too, but they don't forbade it ) it is Sever Force, it will serve his connection with the force.

[TW Scott]

but then there's no contest. in ST there are far to many deus-ex machina aliens to make an interesting fight. i'll stick with Empire vs UFP. easy to make educated guesse by on-screen evidence. that's how i got mu 2 scenarios so far:
1. surprise attack by the empire on Earth, Vulcan and similar (regardless of the method they optained the hyperspace rutes) results in Empire victory

2. long frontal war of atrition and the UFP wins on the defencive, because the Empire crumbles on itself.

i'm still working on the tactical parameters for the scenrio TWS proposed. i've had work obligations the past 3 weekends (read i've had no weekends), so this goes rather slow. and i can't find any strike cruiser mods for bridge commander (i have both GCS and ISD2). if anyone has them, please inform me.

Antarasn, i know you are trying to make intelligent arguments here, but the Empire has more ISD's than the Federation has Starships of Runabout size and larger. The Empire has superior (and unstoppable by federations standards) FTL. Superior weaponry, infantry and manufacturing facilities. And simply put more worlds.

Empire vs Federation is an easy victory for the Empire, it would never come to a war of attrition. Though if the Empire decided to play it that way they have a distinct advantage.

[USS Athens]

Republic and CIS.

They're both in the fight, but not allied.

[Kasei001]

Jedi have the force, and a lightsaber. If they can't adapt to Klingon's melee weapons, they can't adapt to lightsabers. There is no way that the Borgs can adpat to the force. Most likey they will send Clone Troopers with the best vibrobaldes first, Borgs can't adpat to it. ( If they can adapt to lightsabers, they then use Vibroblades strenghend by the force )

Lightsabers are energy weapons. The Borg can only adapt to energy weapons. They can’t adapt to melee weapons because there nanoprobe can't analysis them. The Borg will not be able to adapt to The Force. The Force is beyond there understanding.

What are Vibroblades? I have not seen them in any of the SW movies

[TW Scott]

Lightsabers are energy weapons. The Borg can only adapt to energy weapons. They can’t adapt to melee weapons because there nanoprobe can't analysis them. The Borg will not be able to adapt to The Force. The Force is beyond there understanding.

Actually Lightsabers are part Force in nature as the focusing crystals have to be attuned by the creator of the blade. though honesly what is there to analyze to a sharp blade.

What are Vibroblades? I have not seen them in any of the SW movies

You don't see them used in the movies but vibroblades are ultra hard Durasteel baldes with miniaturized motors that cuase it to vibrate at several thousand times a second. the effect is like a ultrashapr chainsaw that can cut most materials.

[TW Scott]

Here is a perfect example of what work heating can do. Part of the ice is superheated so fast that it sends a shockwave through the rest of the material.

This is good example of what happens in the ESB asteroid vaporization scene. Part of the asteroid is superheated and expands through the rest of the material shattering and vaporizing the object faster than convection could. Especially since in the scene in ESB the shockwave that travels through the asteroid is supersonic meaning that the initial energy is quite simply incredible.