Star Wars vs Star Trek

[antaran_1979]

It can fire all it's missiles at Defiant in a long range, then next wave they fire Sesmic Charges, third wave they fire Long-range turbolasers, fourth wave, they send the Dreadgaunts, fifth wave, the SSD's heavy turbolaser is in range, fifth wave they fire the Ion Cannons, sixth wave, they send Eclips ( It have Superlasers ). By the time second wave ended Defiant will be exterminated. My stratagy can destroy 1700 Star Trek ships no problem.

those missiles we've never seen fired from a capital ship?

[TW Scott]

Fett's ship was the only case of SCs being used. if they were widely available, or tacticaly usefull the military would have used them. and they don't. even in the asteroid field.

Did you see the devastation in cuased in the Asteroid belt they were in. Using such a weapon when you are trying to Capture a light frieghter is like trying to capture a city with a nuclear bomb. Just is not smart.

[antaran_1979]

First Palpatine ordered them not to fire it's heavy weapons, only use light turbolaser. Thats the Emporer's orders.

evidence shows they did fire the main HTLs in RoTJ.

[antaran_1979]

Seisimc charges don't work like real-life seismic charges, it is mis-named like turbolaser. Missiles can manuver so it will be hard to target. TIE/i's weapons not TIE bomber's weapons. Dreadnaughts are carried in the SSD, so it is involved. There is atleast 200 turbolaser.

there are no such sound-weapons IRL

[antaran_1979]

*falls over yet again*

Fine, they carry missiles... which will just be shot down.

Ships RARELY dodge a phaser blast, and usually those that do ARE CLOAKED!

You want me to REALLY fuck your missiles? Fine... I'll transport them, then wipe the buffer. There, they CEASE TO EXIST.

Yes I can, a sismic charge release a large amount of energy, it compacts the released again into a flat shape. Sonic Charge have no color, sismic charges release blue energy.

Are you insane? That doesn't say HOW it works! How do you "compact energy", then release it "in a flat shape?

Did you LISTEN to the charge in the movies? It was an OBVIOUS sonic resonance wave, maybe even a sonic resonance cascade!

actually the bombers are more likely to get shot before they can launch

[antaran_1979]

The transporter only can transport less then 10 objects, they will fire hundreds of missile. Then why have I seen they dodge phaser in the defence of Earth.



Thats the best I can give you, I didn't make Star Wars or the Wiki.

It is blue, sound have no color, if you are not satisfied asked other Star Wars debaters.

the transporter can transport as many objects as there are emitters even more if the objects are close from eachother

[Hellblade8]

incorrect. Enterpirse D took tensecond of continous fire with phaser banks to drill a 1 meter radius hole ten kilometers deep. This is 31,415.9 cubic meters. Now the Avenger was vaporizing 20, 40, 60, 80 and 100 meter radius asteroids in less than 1/15 second. These are 33,510.3, 268,082.5, 904,778.6, 2,144,660.5, and 4,188,790.2 cubic meters. Even if you quarter those figures for the irregular shaped asteroids that still far outstrips the absolute best we have seen phasers do.

And? What's your point?

We know that a phaser rifle has a max output of 1.05 megawatts. We also know that it takes at least 4.2 gigawatts to power a small phaser bank. 933 x 4.2 = 3918.6 gigawatts.

Now, 150 megawatts are needed to vaporize a person. At level eight, it would have an output of 0.525 megawatts. Rounding down, we would basicly be getting 300 effective megawatts from 1.05 megawatts. Basicly we take 3918.6 gigawatts, and turn it into 3,918,600 megawatts. Then we divide it by 1.05, which brings it to 3,732,000, and then we multiply it by 300 megawatts. That gives us 1,119,600,000 megawatts, or 1,119.6 terawatts.

You are indeed correct, however this does prove that Star trek Weapons are simply not in power range that some trekkies believe. if it takes hundreds of torpedoes to destroy a 5 kilometer radius asteroid they are simply not gigaton or even megaton weapons.

Except that wasn't a) five kilometers, and b) was made by a character with a reputation for being as stupid as shit.

Furthermore, we have no idea how many torpedoes the ship had, which could have been one or two for all we know, or ten. Or possibly a hundred.

Never in the history of Star trek have we seen a Phaser even come close to a Light Turbolaser. In fact we have seen no regularly used weapon in Star trek that has out performed it's counterpart in Star Wars.

Hey, I've proven that the Galaxy class's main phaser array has an output of 1,119.6 terawatts. Now you prove that you have a higher weapon output by actually doing some work of your own. I'm sure you'll just blow me off of course.

Oh, and remember, EU isn't canon, as we've said time after time.

[Hellblade8]

LOL and your calculations have ignored the canon of both series. WE never see an HTL used in all six movies. So the ICS book stands at 12.5 gigatons. We have seen asteroid impacts on shields in several scenes. We have seen light cannons vaporize massive asteroids of nickel-iron. What more do you need?

How about you telling the truth?

Look TW, you can scream ICS all you want, but that isn't going to get you what you want. We have actual quotes from the creator of Star Wars that you're wrong. We've provided them. Either you start pushing up some real evidence from actual canon sources, and stop playing this loophole bullshit, I will report it to a mod to decide. Surely a neutral party can determine if there is any truth or logic to my claim.

Hyperdrive allows a vessel to travel from one end of a larger glalaxy to the other within hours to days.

Granted, a good tactical advantage, but it will be hard to find UFP areas because it will be a blind jump. Many of their ships may wind up in different parts of the galaxy.

[antaran_1979]

incorrect. Enterpirse D took tensecond of continous fire with phaser banks to drill a 1 meter radius hole ten kilometers deep. This is 31,415.9 cubic meters. Now the Avenger was vaporizing 20, 40, 60, 80 and 100 meter radius asteroids in less than 1/15 second. These are 33,510.3, 268,082.5, 904,778.6, 2,144,660.5, and 4,188,790.2 cubic meters. Even if you quarter those figures for the irregular shaped asteroids that still far outstrips the absolute best we have seen phasers do.



You are indeed correct, however this does prove that Star trek Weapons are simply not in power range that some trekkies believe. if it takes hundreds of torpedoes to destroy a 5 kilometer radius asteroid they are simply not gigaton or even megaton weapons.




Actually the power running through the weapon has an awful lot to do with the effect, but you are right it is the effect on the object that determines the abilities of the weapon.

Never in the history of Star trek have we seen a Phaser even come close to a Light Turbolaser. In fact we have seen no regularly used weapon in Star trek that has out performed it's counterpart in Star Wars.

lol, review the caps mate. review the caps.

[antaran_1979]

Ent-B, we are assuming, unlike TW CrazyAss, that it's ALL of Wars allied against ALL of Trek.

This means
Vong, Imperials, Rebels, CIS, Etc

vs

Feds, Roms, Klinks, Vulcans, Borg, Q, Betazed, 8472, Borg, Breen, Dominion, Cardassian, Ferengi, energetic Dieties, et all

To BEGIN with, Star Wars is VASTLY outnumbered... merely by the inclusion of other species...

Now, if we want to do Star Trek vs Star Wars the way each INDIVIDUAL species works, things get MUCH more complicated... but it'd basicly be

Empire + Pirates + Sith

vs

Feds, Roms, Klinks, Vulcans, Gorn, Hydran, Q (if things SOMEHOW go badly) + Rebels & Jedi

but then there's no contest. in ST there are far to many deus-ex machina aliens to make an interesting fight. i'll stick with Empire vs UFP. easy to make educated guesse by on-screen evidence. that's how i got mu 2 scenarios so far:
1. surprise attack by the empire on Earth, Vulcan and similar (regardless of the method they optained the hyperspace rutes) results in Empire victory

2. long frontal war of atrition and the UFP wins on the defencive, because the Empire crumbles on itself.

i'm still working on the tactical parameters for the scenrio TWS proposed. i've had work obligations the past 3 weekends (read i've had no weekends), so this goes rather slow. and i can't find any strike cruiser mods for bridge commander (i have both GCS and ISD2). if anyone has them, please inform me.

[antaran_1979]

Excuse me, but in all honesty a sonic weapon would not work in space even with the plasma. Though if you could generate the required medium to the ranges shown in the scene you actually be better off just designing an energy pulse that has a broader effect with no limitation on deployment.

i must admit those seismic charges are funky weapons. they make no sence. i still don't have even the slightest inspiration on their working principles. besides, are they good for anything else but mine-layers?

[antaran_1979]

Considering that we have NEVER seen a phaser cuase any of those effects on a surface the cuation you ascribing is too complicated for Occam's Razor. The simpler answer is that is as fast as the phaser could drill through the materials.

As for precison work, never place bets on that. We have seen no lack of precision in Star Wars capital ship weapons. Hell in ANH the ISD crippled the Tantive VI by banking a shot off the smaller ships shields. That's precision.

don't put your hope on "Occam's Razor" lad. 1000 years ago it would imply the Earth was flat.

[antaran_1979]

Actually in the original scene, the one Lucas put in the directors editon there are many more captains reporting.

good to know, thanx mate.

[antaran_1979]

There is no weapon in Star Trek that out performs it's counterpart in Star Wars. in fact they all seem inferior.

Hand Phasers=Good against flesh and organics as well as rocks. Cannot shoot through packing crates.
Blaster Pistols=Blow a how through people. Blow massive chunks out of hardedned concrete walls. Pierce protective armor. Tear chucnks out of dura-armor hulls.

lol, you'll se what are Blasters good for in the next 48 hours

[antaran_1979]

LOL and your calculations have ignored the canon of both series. WE never see an HTL used in all six movies. So the ICS book stands at 12.5 gigatons. We have seen asteroid impacts on shields in several scenes. We have seen light cannons vaporize massive asteroids of nickel-iron. What more do you need?

Hyperdrive allows a vessel to travel from one end of a larger glalaxy to the other within hours to days.

They have worked with indivicduals and groups like the peace brigade. There was also the Hive Crisis. the Vong have shown the ability to at least make allies.

there is no greater cano nthen the movies, and they use HTLs in RoTJ. on Rebels HTL is aperantly enough to obliterate an ISD2.

and the largest thing LTLs did blast were 6-7m cylindrical asteroids.

[antaran_1979]

Did you see the devastation in cuased in the Asteroid belt they were in. Using such a weapon when you are trying to Capture a light frieghter is like trying to capture a city with a nuclear bomb. Just is not smart.

surely they would have used them to protect their ISD towers?

[Saquist]

He said that? wow.








Depending on the situation, in this situation laser is mis-named.

So now canon has been determined to be false.
This is a precedent. As a result other sections of canon can now be questioned in the same manner at length.

Actually a single or even paired fighters against a Star Destroyer is suicide for the fighters. Even a wing of them is an uneven match. This is not like aircraft carrier duking it out, sending planes to do it's dirty work. In Star Wars the carriers are also battle ships. The Fighter's firepower supplements the Capital ships in order to help cripple the enemy vessel after the shields are hammered down.

is this so hard to understand?

And yet time after time the Rebelion deployed fighter offensives against the Empire. It was stated in the novel of Return of the Jedi that such a Rebel Fleet had never been assembled. Fighters were the Rebel mainstay. The fact they took down the biggest captial ship of all with snubb fighters says they are not quite as over matched you would interpret the facts.

[SkywalkerJedi]

How many times must I tell you, the Republic would not ally with the CIS.

It's like the Union army allying with the Southern army to fight the French.

Then Federation and Borgs are not allies. CIS is manipulated by Palpatine and palpatine is the surperm chanceller. Remeber it is Star Wars vs Star Trek.

[SkywalkerJedi]

the 3 holograms indicate that 3 officers are making raports at the time, nothing else. besides when we started this argument there were claims that this task force was biger. it apears there is no concensus on its size even with the SW fans. and how could the rest of the ISDs take care of the rebel transports if the yare allready away, t.i. entered hyperspace?

I checked, all ships in Hoth ( except the one disabled ), is involved in later conflicts.

[SkywalkerJedi]

I have NEVER read a book where the vong work with ANYONE, even when their EXISTANCE depended upon it! Maybe a few of them, but they were not your average Vong... but the race as a whole? Never!

And if we're doing full universe vs full universe, the Q are ASSUMED to be fighting too. Thus, Trek wins by Default.

If we wish to leave the Q out of it, fine... but then realize that Trek would win if it came down to it

Excuse me, what about the shapers agreed to help rebuild Coruscant, and Harrar.