View Poll Results: Which universe would win?

Voters
670. This poll is closed
  • Star Trek

    227 33.88%
  • Star Wars

    285 42.54%
  • Spaceballs

    51 7.61%
  • Farscape

    14 2.09%
  • Dune

    54 8.06%
  • Stargate

    39 5.82%

Thread: Star Wars vs Star Trek

  1. #1021
    Minister of Technology
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    Actually there would be no invasion becuase the Borg have not shown even the slightest interest in being proactive. they slowly expand and until they have the ST galaxy they won't move to a new one. That is proved by them only going after enemies adjoining their territory and the feds who Q accidently introduced them to. They have no shown the ability to beam millions of drones in so they won't. They are bright on the defense but some things even they cannot adapt to. Sun have been around forever and yet one can still destroy a cube.

    As for the shield modulation, since the way a shield would generated would include that logically. If you did not have modulation then it would be awfully hard to reshape them as needed. The burden would be on you to go through every piece of Star Wars media and prove it doesn't.

  2. #1022
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    why do i have to prove sw can do something?im arguing for st.

    how about YOU prove an ability you claim sw has.


    and yes,the borg can beam over as many people as they want,they usualy just beam over a few scouts,or a small assmilation party,its usualy all thats nessasry,but after scanning a sw ship they would se it has thousands of troops and some huge artillary and deam it a threat,then sw is fucked. the borg will travel back in time and ablitirate an entire course of evolution to win.

  3. #1023
    Master of Useless Information
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    Actually, I believe that between my explanation about different weapon types and k's expoundment about the different manufacturers of weapons, the conclusion can be made that the sheilding is either a) physical b) can be remodulated, or c)has a constant remodulation. One of these three would be necessary in order to effectively counter all weapons that exist in the SW world. And guess what. They can. The fact that each ship that mounts shields (which are most) mounts at least two different types increases the chances of this, and some like the Mon Calamari cruisers mount more than two. At any rate, the fighters have projectile weapons (missiles and torpedoes) that are as powerful as light turbolasers, which are more powerful than most Trek mounted weapons, so the fighters can more than put a dent in a ST ship of even great significance. And, since Trek uses different shield modulations for different weapons, I ask if they have ever encountered an ion cannon? Because if they haven't, a squadron of Y-Wings could decimate a Trek fleet, needless to say TIE Defenders could obliterate them. Face it Mars, unless you can come with something incredible, you are going down to Davey Jones locker.

  4. #1024
    Minister of Technology
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    You are claiming they can't based off of your very skewed ideas of how things are. So the burden is one you. Deal with it.

    As for the Borg beaming over a million troops or travelling back in time: Why don't they do it to the federation or specias 8472 or the vulcans or..... there is a simple reason why they can't grasp the utility of doing it. they have a minimalist approach. Send the smallest unit to get the job done. That has been proven to be true again and again.

    BTW midiclorians are not a disease if I am correct in my understanding they are much like mitochondria. A lifefrom in most living cells that helps us process energy efficently. there has been one race that has been immune to the force and even then it was just becuase they were out of tune once Anakin solo had the new lightsaber crystal he was able to sense them and even influence them.

  5. #1025
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    so why would anyone in the trek galaxy be ''in tune'' with the force?

    and why do you get to assum abilities for sw,but if i assume an ability for st you get all pissy?thats hypocrisy. if sw needs more then one kind of shield then that proves they can not change shield frequencie,otherwise they would just use one shield operating on several diffrent frequencies at once.

    and the borg will use as many drones as the think they need,and frankly,i dont think stormies could kill more then one or two of them anyway.they all use identical blasters because they are in a military that wont even let them wear camo,theres no way they have diffrent blasters for each trooper on your average sw cap ship[yes they have diffent blasters,but stromies all use issue blasters,and attacks on an enemy inside your own ship will be limited to things that wont mess up the ship too bad].and i know for a fact that borg shielding will become immune to blasters,thats what the shields do,become immune to enemy weapons.

    and if you scaled the enterprise up to star destroyer size,it would be just as powerful as it. how about comparing a similar sized ship to the enterprise .and cap ships seem to have a very hard time hitting small targets,thats what they have a bunch of fighters for,and the enterprise can take out dozens of small fighters in seconds[they blew up 5 in 2 seconds the other day with no effort at all,thats 150 a minute.]so in 5 minutes they could easily destroy every fighter a star destroyer has,then the destroyes is stuck firing blindly at a ship doing micro warp jumps all over the place,more then likely they would miss and hit their own ships,which would be a very good tactic for st to use.the picard manuver would be devistating for ships that have only two speeds.

    and yes,if you make a claim about an ablity you claim sw has,you must show evidence or precedent to make such a claim,your opinions are not canon and DO NOT COUNT.


    heres a taste of last thing sw would ever see...

    http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dime...8041/hell1.jpg

    http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/3141/ffh3.jpg

    and finaly your demise...

    http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Chamber/3141/ffh2.jpg
    Last edited by mars13; 11-10-05 at 11:34 PM.

  6. #1026
    Minister of Technology
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    4,149
    Okay first of all mar13. Star Wars has two different kinds of shield becuase it is more efficent that way. There is the heavy particle sheild that is just nanometers from the hull and improves the chances that the armor can dissipate energy and kinetic attacks. then there is the deflectors to stop the weapons before they reach the hull. Since they can be readjusted in strength, shape and even regenerated how hard is it to figure out they can be remodulated. Considering that they do not lose them in nebulas it might even be they continously remodulate on a completely random basis. Why is that so hard for you to understand.

    And the Star Trek races are in tune with the Force. What else is empathy, telepathy, and telekinesis? They just don't have it at SW levels.

    Now as for borg adapting to Blaster that is fine, storm tropers carry knives, and squads do have ion pistols to totally obliterate the borgs defensive ability. besides those are SOLID bolts of light. Not phased energy like the phaser.

  7. #1027
    Minister of Technology
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    http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/.../Special2.html the last thing those ships ever saw
    Last edited by TW Scott; 11-11-05 at 12:16 AM.

  8. #1028
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    blasters are still an energy weapon,concentrated photons are still repelled by borg shields.

    and if races in sw are out of tune with the firce,then there is no reason to think aliens in another galaxy will be in tune.and yes,there are mental races that are just as powerful as the sw mind powers,and there are eugenic soldiers that are immune to mental attacks,blind to sensors,and can break transporter beams.



    and a borg vs a stormy with a knife,the borg still has a phaser and assmiliation probes,so the troopers are still screwed.


    also,if you cant show where sw says ''modulate the shields'' or anything other then your assumption,then its NOT CANON.you bitch about the st games not being canon,but you claim your OPINIONS are canon.well there not.

    and that link didnt work,just like your defence.BOOM HEADSHOT!!!

  9. #1029
    Minister of Technology
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    4,149
    Well your head shot with a paper wad is pointless as you have not shown where they cannot. So you arguments do not count. not that they ever did. Your mouth share much in common with another orifice you possess, constantly spewing fecal matter.

    http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/...veMinutes.html for comparative firepower. now do you think the borg can resist the Empire

  10. #1030
    give me liberty
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    ok,i keep telling you,YOU must PROVE they CAN modulate shields,other wise its not a fact,its YOUR OPNINION!!!and that is not canon,its not even close.you talk about my ass when your head must be completly up yours to even suggest i DISPROVE your ridiculous claims.you claim it,you prove it,thats how it works.

    and of course some sw fan site says trek loses in 5 minutes.thats just stupid to even post that. sw cant even fit throu a worm hole in that amount of time.[assuming its your average sized wormhole],and then they have to contend with incredible tech they have never seen,completly omnipotent beings,spacial anomolies that rip starships apart,alien plants and animals that can kill you in seconds,no supply lines, and no knowledge of any of the worlds in st,and no maps or charts,so they will definitly run into every single anomoly and distirtion,and space/time rip.

    and they wont even know where the hell the thousands of borg drones came from,considering they have no knowledge of transport, and then after two shots the borg are now immune to there weapons and have assmilated half the crew or beamed of the other half to be assmilated later.

  11. #1031
    Minister of Technology
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    And yet you keep speaking. Damn the clean up bill must be expensive. What do you use for room deodorizer? becuase it has to be strong stuff.

    The tech in Star trek is actually no more spectaculary than what you witnessed in Star Wars. in fact except for a the things that were added in to cover the budget that could not afford a shuttle. It is not even as powerful.

    if you are including all tech so do we. How can you use transporters versuis a ship your sensors do not even register unless you are within 2 kilometers but can fire on you continously with weapons that would annihilate the Enterprise D? As for the Borg shields work great for about a second then Ion Cannons come along destroy the ability for a borg ship to function at all. Then blow it apart with more Turbo laser strikes. And we are not even adding in the fighters which pack a punch equivalent to a light cruiser.

    And BTW, in scientific research you hold experiments to try to disprove hypotheses. Every canon resource I have seen leads me to believe the SW sheilds can be remodulated. A. the fact that Destryer Droids can fire throught their own shields and allow other battle driods of any make or model do the same. B. That Gungan energy domes can let solid objest through but not water. C. Shields can be remodulated to protect a certain portion of the ship more than others. Now if you have more than three brain cells you can see where this leads to. Claiming a Star Wars vessel cannot change frequencies becuase in six movies you did not see it is much like claiming CB radio can only transmit on one frequency becuase you have never seen it changed. get the point yet.

  12. #1032
    Hellenistic polytheist Hapsburg's Avatar
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    ROFL. Even the Slave-1 could whup the E-D's ass. Alright, I'm pretty sure of it: trek can't stand up for shit.

  13. #1033
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    so how exactly are your huge ships going to shot a tiny ship anyway?they seem to be useless against anything smaller then a planet.that IS why they have to use millions of worthless dinky fighters.

    and how exactly are you going to destroy a st vessel anyway?your weapons cant even go fast enough to catch anything going past warp 1.

    and the ability to shoot throu shileding is nothing to brag about,that just means that is possible to remodulate phasers to pass right throu shielding,or transporters for that matter.

    and since sw has absolutly no concept of transporters they WILL be a huge surprise.and the picard manuaver[which is impossible without warp] will be devastating to their targeting arrays[if they even have them as much as they need to shot to hit anything].

    and since the borg can beam over millions of drones[because i say they can,prove they cant] most sw ships will be over run in seconds because borg ships in transwarp dont show up on sw sensors[prove they can],and they will have zero defence other then a tiny knife.so sw loses that battle as well.now the borg have an assmilated a star destroyer and will be sure to strip it of tech and use it for themselves.and after a few hours all borg ships are equiped with turbolasrs except they are 100x more effecient and 100x more powerful because the borg used some of their nanotech to enhance them[prove they cant].

    too bad,sw was almost going to get one kill that time but there ignorance of anything in the st galaxy led to their downfall,you should probably learn a little about a new galaxy of enemies before you attampt a 5 minute takeover of an entire galaxy.

    or we will just geniticly engineer a few teddy bears and mop the floor with you.
    Last edited by mars13; 11-11-05 at 02:10 AM.

  14. #1034
    Plutarch (Mickey's Dog)
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    kv1at3485:

    'Little control' as in: unless a very specific solution was attained, there were likely to be extremely bad repercussions. One might surmise that the margin for error was far too small to any attempt at large scale changes worth while.
    Extremely bad reprecussions? They coudl keep the knowledge contained to a few Star Fleet admirals and then send the people back to their time, whilst the present day admirals dealt with it as was needed.

    Explain.
    Well, aside from the violation of tons of paradox, apparently alternate-universes which Trek goes into (partially violated by First Contact...?), and the fact that the Fed, Dominion, et cetera, don't seem willing to do a single thing as regards time warfare, it would seem that something is up that prevents Star Trek from employing logical and extremely powerful chronowarfare tactics.

    This assumes that the SW attack on the 24th century ST (not just the UFP) even gets out of the starting block.

    T=0
    SW and ST universes 'collide'
    T=1
    SW jumps off to ST universe

    29th century ST detects the change and reacts. Initiates a miniloop

    T=0.5
    29th century ST 'crushes' SW universe
    T=1
    No jump off
    T=2
    Business as usual.
    Well, considering no one but the Borg - and only once, and to pretty much no avail - are willing to actually do such things, and even the 29th Century ST doesn't seem to have -remarkable- time travelling abilities, this would seem unlikely. But this is another reason why Trek, or any time travel, unnecessarily confounds things.

    Well, whatever the fuel a SW vessel uses, it has enormous energy potential. Detonating the fuel will be enough to destroy the vessel.
    Assuming it is volatile enough to detonate, or that shielding on the ship around the reactor core wouldn't be sufficient. Unlike Star Trek, Star Wars attempts to build its ships to military standards of engineering quality.

    TW Scott:

    Glad to see another sane mind in this debate. By the way, welcome to Sci Forums.

    Fourth the supposed superiority of Star Trek metal. Tritanium alloy is just another term for Dura Stell and vice versa. The windows on Star Destroyers are transparent alluminum or it equivalent. The man advantage falls to the Empire however as their massive ships have armor several feet thick versus the Federation model of a foot at average.
    I believe the term is transparisteel in Star Wars, although you must also recognize that Star Wars armour (on ships and fighters and the like) withstands far more than Star Trek could ever hope to, and really ought to be considered superior to that. Even small ships, like the Millennium Falcon, are evidently capable of withstanding multi-megaton turbolaser blasts, whilst the large ships can take on ludicrous amounts of damage, in the multigigaton range.

    B. Empire attacks head on. This would be reminiscint of the war with the Founders. Except not going as well at first. Without doubt if the governemtns rallied together they could drive back the attackers, but it is a safe bet the Cardassians or the Romulans would join the Empire's side if only to survive.
    Considering the tech superiority of Star Wars, I would affirm this is hardly likely.

    kv1at3485:

    “ Common AI's that make Data look like a dunce. ”



    Comparative examples, please?
    Almost every machine in SW is an AI, including ships, main computer systems, dew-harvesters...C3P0, built by a slave child who was, very likely, illiterate, was himself fluent in 6 million forms of communication, biological and computer.

    As for starfighters, the comparison is rather suspect. ST doesn't make heavy use of starfighters in the first place (which is fine, seeing that starfighters are bogus anyways, especially when you have missiles.) The only reason that SW fighters do well against ST capships is because of the tech gap.
    Electronic warfare.

    On Transporter Warfare in general:

    You know it's funny...If Transporter Warfare was such a viable tactic, wouldn't you think it would be used against, oh I don't know, The Dominion? The Borg? The Vorta? You know, someone? Again, just like Time Travel, the speculation does not fit the facts.

  15. #1035
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    borg are hard to transport,they have built in inhibitors. and the dominion is ds9 and its all just stupid crap anyway[except the tr-116].

    and i think we allready established that tritanium and durasteel are almost identical strength,so your average fed ship should withsatnd at least 3 times as much fire as the falcon.


    and if blasters are so powerful,why did they barely burn the outer layer of skin on lukes robo hand? a phaser on max would have completly vaporized him.so borg should have zero problems blocking blaster fire.

    and transporter warfare is used all the time, there are dozens of examples of beaming enemies into the halodeck and disabling their weapons,only they think they are winning the fight!! but in reality they are unarmed prisoners.and transport is used many other times,the transdimensional trans is extremy effective as an offensive weapon,especialy for the destruction of star ships.and we know one small shot fired into a sw ships reactor detonates it instantly,or did you not see the first[third] and third[sixth] movies?

    and 29 century tech would crush anything sw has,i was looking up some of the ships today and they are very powerful.

    http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/sc...ture_ships.htm

    this site has dozens of ships of almost every race and time period.

  16. #1036
    Plutarch (Mickey's Dog)
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    mars13:

    and i think we allready established that tritanium and durasteel are almost identical strength,so your average fed ship should withsatnd at least 3 times as much fire as the falcon.
    Both the movies, comics, games, and books disagree with the technical manuals on this point. Since no power in Star Trek ever exceeds a paltry few megatons, and the ship can be ripped apart by such, whilst Star Wars ships sustain tremendously powerful weaponary on scales of magnitude larger than what is suffered from ST, we must conclude abnormal capacities of the armour, or shields to such an extent that they make Star Trek shields look like a wet paper bag protection.

    and if blasters are so powerful,why did they barely burn the outer layer of skin on lukes robo hand? a phaser on max would have completly vaporized him.so borg should have zero problems blocking blaster fire.
    What scene are you refering to where Luke's fake hand gets burnt? I don't recall it.

    and transporter warfare is used all the time, there are dozens of examples of beaming enemies into the halodeck and disabling their weapons,only they think they are winning the fight!! but in reality they are unarmed prisoners.and transport is used many other times,the transdimensional trans is extremy effective as an offensive weapon,especialy for the destruction of star ships.and we know one small shot fired into a sw ships reactor detonates it instantly,or did you not see the first[third] and third[sixth] movies?
    Give me the episodes where transporter warfare is used "all the time". I have watched every episode of TOS, TNG, DS9, and Voyager at least once or twice (with many episodes being watched about 6 times over, specifically with TOS and TNG), and transporter weapons are -not- employed. They CERTAINLY are not used when they would be most applicable - i n the war against the Dominion or in fights against the Borg - and if they are used, they do little damage and are never mentioned on screen. Considering Star Trek shields are CONSTANTLY knocked down, even after miniscule bombardment, these weapons should be MASSIVELY useful. But we see nothing. Nothing at all.

    and 29 century tech would crush anything sw has,i was looking up some of the ships today and they are very powerful.
    They are "very powerful" yet have no stats, no weaponary, no explanation of their power...

  17. #1037
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    remember when luke got shot in the hand on jabas ship when he saved han from the sand pit creature ?

    and again,if a st ship is scaled up to the same size as a stardestroyer its power stats are just as high.

  18. #1038
    Minister of Technology
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    Quote Originally Posted by mars13
    remember when luke got shot in the hand on jabas ship when he saved han from the sand pit creature ?
    Ever heard of a grazing shot? besides Luke hand is durasteel constructed and the badguy in question was using a hold out blaster. The outer skin was burned, but no real damage done becuase it was like shooting the terminator with a .44M.

    Quote Originally Posted by mars13
    and again,if a st ship is scaled up to the same size as a stardestroyer its power stats are just as high.
    Fallacious argument. The Enterprise D is roughly one quarter the size of an Imperial Star Destroyer yet her weapons multiplied by 4 are still not even a drop in the Great Lakes in comparison

  19. #1039
    Master of Useless Information
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    First, I want to explain something about Stormtroopers. They look like they do because they were feared throughout the galaxy. Palpatine was not afraid to sacrifice a few to not being able to hide in order to take the psychological advantage of fear. Meanwhile, some troopers, esp. special forces, did use camo. Black Hole's troops, for instance, had full stealth gear and armor. Next, sheild have to modulate to absorb different types of energy from different kinds of weapons. The end.

  20. #1040
    Plutarch (Mickey's Dog)
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    mars13:

    I'm going to watch ROTJ later, so I shall comment on why Luke got s hot by a blaster and only suffered some burns, if such happened as you see it.

    and again,if a st ship is scaled up to the same size as a stardestroyer its power stats are just as high.
    We cannot declare this in the least. Moreover, since Star Trek -doesn't- scale its ships to the sheer size of a Star Destroyer, then it cannot be used as evidence for ST at all.

    TW Scott:

    Ever heard of a grazing shot? besides Luke hand is durasteel constructed and the badguy in question was using a hold out blaster. The outer skin was burned, but no real damage done becuase it was like shooting the terminator with a .44M.
    Good point.

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