Star Wars vs Star Trek

[Flectarn]

Then why did Fett's siesimc charge worked in space?

I don't know, some other techonobable mechanism

[SkywalkerJedi]

Actually?
There is no actually in that statement in regards to the gap illistrated in my post with the star fighters to ships. ACTUALLY...since fighters and ships are quite close to each other in firepower, ACTUALLY they are both far lower than Star Fleet weaponry shows.

When you are referring to ships, are you refering to warships or normal ships.

I don't know if it is canon but you haven't shown this is an uncanon statement by questining the the canonicity. The canon shows that the deflectors don't protect more often than not for some reason....Star Wars.com explains this.

You said there would be a shield flash if they were up. So you're wrong by canon alone. There are at least a dozen displays showing that the shields aren't there when a fighter is destroyed especially in the newerepisodes, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO SHIELD WEAPON INTERACTION in the new Trillogy. So...I guess according to you there is virtually no shield tech in the Years before the battle of Yavin.

Well, they have shields. The only visible shield is seen at Phamtom Menace. TW Scott is so wrong, the shields don't flash at all, it is almost invisable. Here is some qoutes:
" Captain, look!"
"Shields up!"
-Two anoymous officers.

" Shields up."
-Anakin Skywalker

I can't recall all the qoutes, but there is a few.

What are you talking about less than a quarter of a second to respond? Between take of flight there is more than a couple of minutes let alone seconds. You're making no sense whats so ever.

I agree, but Skywalker can see the future, so he can respond faster.

Negative. Home One was Admiral Ackbars ship.
In the scene we see Ackbar in the chair and the Star Destroyer blowing up due to another ship near by. Go back and looks at Antarans screen shots.

I did, the ship that fired is another ship of it's class, I think. Sorry for the confusion.

okay, yet tactics come into play too when you set up matches. They may have the firepower but can they target these much faster ships? I say no.

Well, they have missiles and proton tropedoes. There is 60 Turbolaser and 60 Ion Cannon on each ISD-I. They can all fire, so if the Star Trek ship is circling the ISD, bad idea.

[SkywalkerJedi]

I don't know, some other techonobable mechanism

Thats what I am trying to tell him.

[SkywalkerJedi]

Star Forge can make a huge fleet in a few days ( less then a half a week ), so it will take a long time for Starfleet to get to Star Forge, by the time they went there, Star Forge will have built massive armdas( I mean massive, by a couple hundred thousand ), the only problem is the crew, but Star Forge make droids too, they can be the crew. There is the World Devastors that do pretty much the samething on a smaller scale.

[Flectarn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkWJpvNhADU

no Speederbikes, but you can see what At-ST's do trees and the ground

[SkywalkerJedi]

AT-ST have light blaster cannon and one of the worst walkers.

[Flectarn]

what would you rate as having a heavy blaster cannon?

[Hellblade8]

*Groan*

Your lack of tactical knowledge is horrible.

It can fire all it's missiles at Defiant in a long range,

First of all, Imperial range is horrible, as we saw a TIE fighter well out of range of the Falcon. Granted, the Falcon is a transport ship...but sadly, it's often more accurate than ISD weapons.

The UFP, if pressed, can fight at far longer ranges, up to hundreds of kilometers. And finally, do you have evidence that ISDs carry torpedoes, and that they can obtain this range?

then next wave they fire Sesmic Charges,

How do they fire Sesmic Charges? Thus far, they are mine-like weapons, as we saw in Attack of the Clones. They'd just float hundreds of meters away from their targets.

third wave they fire Long-range turbolasers,

That's redundant.

fourth wave, they send the Dreadgaunts,

And what are these?

fifth wave, the SSD's heavy turbolaser is in range,

Oookay, you mean the 1.5-3.0 megaton weaponry?

fifth wave they fire the Ion Cannons,

Yes, because if the most powerful armament on an ISD couldn't take them out, surely the Ion Cannons could do something, right?

sixth wave, they send Eclips ( It have Superlasers ).

That's EU.

Another post from canon wars, held up by the excellent G2K:

http://www.canonwars.com/weblog/2008...-lucas-quote.h
tml

By the time second wave ended Defiant will be exterminated.

All of this just for the Defiant? Tell me, how is this supposed to work when the Defiant's mobility is so great that most people who haven't seen much of DS9 think it's a slow fighter?

My stratagy can destroy 1700 Star Trek ships no problem.

No, no it wouldn't. Your entire idea goes under a number of strange delusions that just aren't true.

1) That the Empire has greater ranges that UFP ships.

2) That the UFP ships are just going to sit there and take it.

3) That any of these weapons will do more than scratch the paint job.

[Flectarn]

*Groan*



The UFP, if pressed, can fight at far longer ranges, up to hundreds of kilometers. And finally, do you have evidence that ISDs carry torpedoes, and that they can obtain this range?
.

10's of thousands... up to 200k Km iirc

[SkywalkerJedi]

[QUOTE=Hellblade8;1821637

First of all, Imperial range is horrible, as we saw a TIE fighter well out of range of the Falcon. Granted, the Falcon is a transport ship...but sadly, it's often more accurate than ISD weapons.[/QUOTE]
Thats a TIE/i, the worst TIE fighter. Concussion missiles have far greater range then Turbolasers.

The UFP, if pressed, can fight at far longer ranges, up to hundreds of kilometers. And finally, do you have evidence that ISDs carry torpedoes, and that they can obtain this range?

ISD's don't but the cruisers do. ISDs use proton tropedoes.
Here is my sources: Legaxy of the Force: Fury

How do they fire Sesmic Charges? Thus far, they are mine-like weapons, as we saw in Attack of the Clones. They'd just float hundreds of meters away from their targets.

They make it into a warhead of a missile.

And what are these?

There is loopholes about your qoute, it means that everything that happened in Anakin's era is canon. The Dreadnaugts are warships, they used it in outbound flight.

Oookay, you mean the 1.5-3.0 megaton weaponry?

That are not that weak! Are you on crack?

Yes, because if the most powerful armament on an ISD couldn't take them out, surely the Ion Cannons could do something, right?

Ion Cannons can disable them, and 60 Turbolasers can probably destory it.

That's EU.

Another post from canon wars, held up by the excellent G2K:

http://www.canonwars.com/weblog/2008...-lucas-quote.h
tml

It only means it is not G-Canon, it is C-canon. C-canon is anything that didn't come from George Lucas and licienced by Lucasfilm. The only non-canon stuff, is the things that disagree with movies.

All of this just for the Defiant? Tell me, how is this supposed to work when the Defiant's mobility is so great that most people who haven't seen much of DS9 think it's a slow fighter?

It is a fighter? I thought it is a ship. It will take less then I imagined.

No, no it wouldn't. Your entire idea goes under a number of strange delusions that just aren't true.

1) That the Empire has greater ranges that UFP ships.

2) That the UFP ships are just going to sit there and take it.

3) That any of these weapons will do more than scratch the paint job

Concusion missiles are the same range as phasers. No, they will fight, but ISDs have escorts and it have ships in the hanger. It will probably destory thr fighter.

[Saquist]

When you are referring to ships, are you refering to warships or normal ships.

well I was trying to relate with your post...(i believe)

Well, they have shields. The only visible shield is seen at Phamtom Menace. TW Scott is so wrong, the shields don't flash at all, it is almost invisable. Here is some qoutes:
" Captain, look!"
"Shields up!"
-Two anoymous officers.

" Shields up."
-Anakin Skywalker

I can't recall all the qoutes, but there is a few.

Exactly they do have shields but as we've seen there is a hit miss quality to the shields. Some get through...others do not.

I agree, but Skywalker can see the future, so he can respond faster.

There is no doubt, but to compare him to the other pilots to the point of irrationalism is ludacris of Scott...but actually quite typical for him to reach for the most idiotic thinking rather than be wrong.



I

Well, they have missiles and proton tropedoes. There is 60 Turbolaser and 60 Ion Cannon on each ISD-I. They can all fire, so if the Star Trek ship is circling the ISD, bad idea.

BUt can we trust that if it's not a canon source. Scott is unwilling to take starswars.com at it's word what does that hold for the contradictions across canon that are both canon and uncanon?

[Hellblade8]

Watch some Star Wars and read the books mate.

The books are not canon.

[SkywalkerJedi]

well I was trying to relate with your post...(i believe)

I was talking about Starfighters are not starships.

Exactly they do have shields but as we've seen there is a hit miss quality to the shields. Some get through...others do not.

I agree, if the shield got hit too much it will automaticly turn off the area's shields.

There is no doubt, but to compare him to the other pilots to the point of irrationalism is ludacris of Scott...but actually quite typical for him to reach for the most idiotic thinking rather than be wrong.

I know.

BUt can we trust that if it's not a canon source. Scott is unwilling to take starswars.com at it's word what does that hold for the contradictions across canon that are both canon and uncanon?

Deal with TW Scott about that, I never said that. TW Scott lies too much. I am willing to take Starwars.com's word and Star Wars wiki's word too.

[SkywalkerJedi]

The books are not canon.

They are not G-Canon, but C-Canon.

[Flectarn]

Thats a TIE/i, the worst TIE fighter. Concussion missiles have far greater range then Turbolasers.

It is a fighter? I thought it is a ship. It will take less then I imagined.
.

Then why do they only seem to use the TIE/i's if their so bad compared to other models they should have been retired... or never entered service

no, no, It's a ship, but if you havn't watched ds9 then your only expericne with it was first contact, so many people (apparently) mistake it for a slow fighter because it's rather maneuverable.

It's probably around 100 meters... though as always scaleing is a problem

Introduction

It is hard to believe and hard to accept that there are no reliable technical specs on the Defiant, unquestionably one of the most popular starships in the Star Trek Universe. It is most unsettling that not even the ship's size is certain. Depending on what is taken as a reference, its length seems to vary between less than 50m and close to 200m. This means an uncertainty of 400% for the length and even 6400% for the volume! Since the DS9 Technical Manual with seemingly accurate deck layouts was released in 1998, the confusion is complete, for the plans conflict with the numerical size figures in the same book.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/ar...t-problems.htm

[Saquist]

I was talking about Starfighters are not starships.

Gotcha.

[Deal with TW Scott about that, I never said that. TW Scott lies too much. I am willing to take Starwars.com's word and Star Wars wiki's word too.

I think it's important to deal with these SOURCES of information individually and not simply on there clout as canon.

With the movies, they are what they are. But even the movies have contradicted themselves in some degree. So, just from my point of view its important to remain realistic. If something looks fishy in canon then don't use it. Lean toward the reasonable idea.

Star wars fans do this more than they like to admit.
Such as the argument..."there called lasers but clearly they aren't" That's not a canon statement. The realistic view is adopted over the canon which does indeed term the weapons lasers.

That same practice can be used in other arguments.

[SkywalkerJedi]

Then why do they only seem to use the TIE/i's if their so bad compared to other models they should have been retired... or never entered service

no, no, It's a ship, but if you havn't watched ds9 then your only expericne with it was first contact, so many people (apparently) mistake it for a slow fighter because it's rather maneuverable.

It's probably around 100 meters... though as always scaleing is a problem


http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/ar...t-problems.htm

TIE/i apprently is the cheapest, so they still use it. Concussion Missiles can manuver too, and they will fire more then one. They imight just use flank guns and proton tropedoes.

[SkywalkerJedi]

Gotcha.

????????

I think it's important to deal with these SOURCES of information individually and not simply on there clout as canon.

With the movies, they are what they are. But even the movies have contradicted themselves in some degree. So, just from my point of view its important to remain realistic. If something looks fishy in canon then don't use it. Lean toward the reasonable idea.

Star wars fans do this more than they like to admit.
Such as the argument..."there called lasers but clearly they aren't" That's not a canon statement. The realistic view is adopted over the canon which does indeed term the weapons lasers.

That same practice can be used in other arguments.

Well, the laser argument is not ture because lasers use a beam, not a bolt. Plus Blaster bolts and laser have other diffrences, Blaster blast stuff, laser melt. Here is another reason, Blaster Bolts and so-called star wars "laser" bolts are the exact same. Alot of things I use are not fishy at all.

[Hellblade8]

Thats a TIE/i, the worst TIE fighter. Concussion missiles have far greater range then Turbolasers.

I was talking about the Falcon's range.

ISD's don't but the cruisers do. ISDs use proton tropedoes.
Here is my sources: Legaxy of the Force: Fury

That isn't proof. First of all, you provide no quote, and second of all, you full well know that isn't canon.

They make it into a warhead of a missile.

Except they never do, despite how effective this weapon would be in battle. We never see it.

There is loopholes about your qoute, it means that everything that happened in Anakin's era is canon. The Dreadnaugts are warships, they used it in outbound flight.

Loophole?

loop·hole Audio Help /ˈlupˌhoʊl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[loop-hohl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -holed, -hol·ing.
–noun 1. a small or narrow opening, as in a wall, for looking through, for admitting light and air, or, particularly in a fortification, for the discharge of missiles against an enemy outside.
2. an opening or aperture.
3. a means of escape or evasion; a means or opportunity of evading a rule, law, etc.: There are a number of loopholes in the tax laws whereby corporations can save money.

By claiming this, you are specifcally stating that you are going agains the intent of the law, or rule in order to obtain what you want. Since this was made by George Lucas, you are specifically attempting to get around his rules by using his words against him in order to get your weapon yields.

You're basicly performing high treason as a Star Wars fan, and placing your own agenda above the truth, and the world the George created. I'm afraid you've gone too far here. I may not care for the prequals and some of George's work, but it's his world, and as a fellow writer, I'm not going to let you fuck around with that world.

The Star Wars universe has expanded far beyond the movies. How much leeway do the game makers and novel writers have?

They have their own kind of world. There's three pillars of Star Wars. I'll probably get in trouble for this but it's OK! There's three pillars: the father, the son and the holy ghost. I'm the father, Howard Roffman [president of Lucas Licensing] is the son and the holy ghost is the fans, this kind of ethereal world of people coming up with all kinds of different ideas and histories. Now these three different pillars don't always match, but the movies and TV shows are all under my control and they are consistent within themselves. Howard tries to be consistent but sometimes he goes off on tangents and it's hard to hold him back. He once said to me that there are two Star Trek universes: there's the TV show and then there's all the spin-offs. He said that these were completely different and didn't have anything to do with each other. So I said, "OK, go ahead." In the early days I told them that they couldn't do anything about how Darth Vader was born, for obvious reasons, but otherwise I pretty much let them do whatever they wanted. They created this whole amazing universe that goes on for millions of years!"

This is the quote.

The Star Wars universe has expanded far beyond the movies. How much leeway do the game makers and novel writers have?

Novel and game makers, this is specifcally targeting books and games made. I don't need to explain this, and if I do, leave. I will not waste my time teaching you basic english.

They have their own kind of world.

This is a basic sentence, and taken within context in what we see in this interview, he is talking about the novels, and the games.

There's three pillars of Star Wars. I'll probably get in trouble for this but it's OK! There's three pillars: the father, the son and the holy ghost. I'm the father, Howard Roffman [president of Lucas Licensing] is the son and the holy ghost is the fans, this kind of ethereal world of people coming up with all kinds of different ideas and histories. Now these three different pillars don't always match, but the movies and TV shows are all under my control and they are consistent within themselves. Howard tries to be consistent but sometimes he goes off on tangents and it's hard to hold him back.

Here he explains it.

He once said to me that there are two Star Trek universes: there's the TV show and then there's all the spin-offs. He said that these were completely different and didn't have anything to do with each other. So I said, "OK, go ahead." In the early days I told them that they couldn't do anything about how Darth Vader was born, for obvious reasons, but otherwise I pretty much let them do whatever they wanted. They created this whole amazing universe that goes on for millions of years!"

And yet again, a comparison to the Star Trek franchise, which does the same thing.

Thus far, all we've seen is that the TV shows and the movies are canon. Nothing else is.

That are not that weak! Are you on crack?

Really? I can put up a link to G2k's calculations, and if you wish, you can disprove it step by step, or provide some higher calculations.

Hell, even with the idea that a 40 meter asteroid as vaporized in ESB is only 280 kilotons, much less than a megaton.

Ion Cannons can disable them, and 60 Turbolasers can probably destory it.

Evidence? And dude, a Galaxy class starship generates well over what out planet does in a year every second while sitting in atmosphere of a small planet.

It only means it is not G-Canon, it is C-canon. C-canon is anything that didn't come from George Lucas and licienced by Lucasfilm. The only non-canon stuff, is the things that disagree with movies.

See above.

It is a fighter? I thought it is a ship. It will take less then I imagined.

It IS a ship you dolt. I said people mistake it for one.

Concusion missiles are the same range as phasers.

Prove it.

No, they will fight, but ISDs have escorts and it have ships in the hanger.

Then your plan falls apart from the beginning. And to make it worse, you think sending in support ships will help them when even UFP runabouts carry higher payloads.

It will probably destory thr fighter.

It isn't a fighter. It is a destroyer.

[Saquist]

????????

meaning my comment was actually a response to TWScott through a topic thru you... His expectations of ship to fighter relations creates a massive gap so that fighters are actually quite useless against Star Destroyers. and yet we see that they are not.

Well, the laser argument is not ture because lasers use a beam, not a bolt. Plus Blaster bolts and laser have other diffrences, Blaster blast stuff, laser melt. Here is another reason, Blaster Bolts and so-called star wars "laser" bolts are the exact same. Alot of things I use are not fishy at all.

Which one is true? realism or the canon statement?
canon says laser
realism says not a laser.

which one is correct?