Star Wars vs Star Trek

[Arquibus]

Actually the size of a ship does matter when it effects how many tens of thousands of troops are on board, or how many hundreds of weapon batteries it posesses. In the meantime, blasters do not have to be reloaded all the time, in fact it didn't happen in the movies at all. Also, blasters have more compacted energy, but that doesn't mean they aren't powerful. That merely means what they are striking has good capacity to take damage. In the meantime, a fighter is more important than simple transportation. I'd like to see ST capital ships engage enemies that they cannot hit. And they really shouldn't be able to, since they have dealt with nothing of the sort. I find it funny, in fact, that a TIE Defender probably mounts as much firepower as a light corvette-class ship in Trek...but I digress. And I need to ask someone exactly what a frequency modulation would physically mean, because I have a hunch of something but I would like to be clear before I make my point.

[mars13]

st has never delt with tiny ships before? you honestly think st ships cannot take out a few ty fighters or x wings?they can only go at sublight speed in battle,and they dont have any shields,they cant even penatrate the navigational shields[they are tiny],they are fucked in any battle against anything but other crappy fighters.

phasers would decimate fighters,worf would love smiting useless tiny ships all day long. i bet a redshirt with a phaser could lean out the window and take out a few fighters himself.

or they would just fly away and the sw ships coudnt do anything about it. crappy sensors[remeber luke using the force and not the sensors?] and hyperdrive with no shields are not going to take out any st ships.

the last episode of st today[i forget the name]the enterprise took out 5 small alien ships,who were using quadlasers and shielding,in about 2 seconds with phaser fire.so st has zero problems with small puny ships.

[Tus]

mars, nothing against you but your arguements don't make sense, and sound... a bit childish... Please put more thought behind them so me as a trekie can't sit there and pick it apart (like borgminion...don't make me laugh here)

[Tus]

Actually the size of a ship does matter when it effects how many tens of thousands of troops are on board, or how many hundreds of weapon batteries it posesses. In the meantime, blasters do not have to be reloaded all the time, in fact it didn't happen in the movies at all. Also, blasters have more compacted energy, but that doesn't mean they aren't powerful. That merely means what they are striking has good capacity to take damage. In the meantime, a fighter is more important than simple transportation. I'd like to see ST capital ships engage enemies that they cannot hit. And they really shouldn't be able to, since they have dealt with nothing of the sort. I find it funny, in fact, that a TIE Defender probably mounts as much firepower as a light corvette-class ship in Trek...but I digress. And I need to ask someone exactly what a frequency modulation would physically mean, because I have a hunch of something but I would like to be clear before I make my point.

Actually we know that the the trek universe has dealt w/ fighters, DS9 Sacrifice of Angels, so your arguement on that point is slightly flawed.

[mars13]

the borg and dominion alliance creates borgminion,whats not to get?

both are hive minds and both will work with enemies if they need too.

if you find anything i post as not making sence then point it out and i will explain it.sometimes my wording gets jumbled[dyslexia].

[Tus]

the borg minion doesn't make sense because we are to assume that such an alliance would occur. It has never been shown onscreen to be fact and thus cannot be assumed to be fact like you have been doing.

[mars13]

granted it has not happened in st before, but neither has an invading galaxy of sw vessels.

but alliences against a common enemy happen in st all the time.

if the borg and domnion are facing a huge threat they COULD chose to work together to defeat them.

the borg-minion are just a theory, but it IS within the realm of possibilty when faced with galactic extinction.even if its not likely.

and the rebels and the imperials will be working together to take over the trek galaxy,so its stands to reason alot of trek racs will band together to fight of the invading sw armies.

[Hapsburg]

Mars, how many times do w have to tell you? YOU DO NOT DICTATE WHAT IS AND IS NOT CANON. THE OFFICIAL SITE OF PARAMOUNT AND STAR TREK DOES. And guess what...they say only the shows and movies are canon. Nothing you can do about it, retard.

[mars13]

man your hell bent on not discussing the topics at hand. if you dont know how to read thats ok,we can help you.i will spell it out for you.

THE SHOW TAKES PRECEDENT OVER THE GAMES IF THEIR IS A DISCREPENCIE!!!! IF THE GAME IS WRONG ABOUT A DETAIL OR FEATURE OR WHATEVER THEN THE SHOW TAKES PRECEADENT.AND THE MOVIES TAKE PRECEDENT OVER THE SHOWS.THAT WAY ONLY CANON MATERIAL ENTERS THE DISCUSION,RETARD.DEAL WITH IT.

now maybe you can argue for you precious sw becasue right now they are getting their collective asses handed to them because they cant counter shields or resupply.

[TW Scott]

Well then by your reasoning Hapsburg warp spped fights will only occur when a certain computer is at the helm and no i don't mean data. So you've got the shows and movies, no books, comics or games. meanwhile Star Wars has Movies, Comics, Games, and Books. Well it is gonna suck to be the ST universe. Becuase there is stuff that is only shown in the background of movies.

Including a group of twelve jedi who pushed an entire battle group of Star Destroyers six light hours in one burst of TK power. Luke Skywalker having the ability to rip hull plates off without breaking a sweat. Ion cannon which will shut down your ships in one hit. Planet destroying weapons. Thermonuclear handgrenades. Battle droids. Space worthy power armor. The suncrusher. The Yuzhan Vong. And far too many things for the Science fantasy of Star Trek to deal with effectively.

BTW as for the Borg-founders they would not be able to shape change the impants, even if they could get them.

[mars13]

EHH? whos computer? whos backround?what?

i think your putting st where sw should be.but im not sure.


also,shapeshifting borg could beam on board,morph into the floor and assmilate people as they walked by.thats rather dangerous when every single trooper looks identical,no one wold know who was ashape shifter or who was assmilated.that put sw in a very bad position.

and isnt the suncrusher destroyed?exactly whick sw timeline will be attacking the st galaxy?

[TW Scott]

obviously not a true trekkie, ah shame. in the original TOS there was an experioment with Computer controlling a whole starship, thus eliminating the need for large crews. it was the only time the Enterprise fought at a spead over the high end of impulse.

Oh I don't doubt shapeshifters are bad ass. But a borged shapeshifter would find it awfully hard to change the shape of the implant. Then again if youget to have borg and dominion why begrudge us one starfighter? Oh that right becuase it is completely indestructable short of a massive black hole.

[kv1at3485]

Well, I'm going to bow out of this thread now since it's become a bit too... inhospitable for my tastes. (Never thought I'd find persons even more obstinate and lacking in the capacity for logical thought than myself.)

Not to mention I think I've contributed just about everything I can. Other people can start checking their own 'facts' for themselves.

But my regards and thanks to Prince_James and other lucid individuals like him. By the Union, only such people should be allowed to particpate in these debates...

"Mirab, his sails unfurled..."

[mars13]

by inhospitable you mean sw lost.

at tanagra.

[TW Scott]

No as in it is hard to argue with someone who refuses to cede any point even when it is hammered in with a sledgehammer.

[mars13]

if you have a point please tell us what it is.

because so far sw cant counter transporter tech.that = a loss in the trek galaxy.

[TW Scott]

Actually you have not proven to me they can't. I meanwhile have offer this.

Countering transporters is only a matter of:
1. Shields
2. Sensor Jamming
3. Destruction of the offending vessel

Star Wars has:
1. Shields 2 types
2. Sensor jamming and probably more tons than any ST ships has.
3. More weapons per ship than even a Flagship.

Furthermore to use Transporters effectively a Star trek vessel has to
1. be stationaly or moving extremely slowly
2. Be able to scan the other ship effectively
3. Lower a sheild

When these things occur a Star Wars vessel will:
1: Fire ion cannons totally disabling your ships shields, sensors, weapons, weapons control, communications and much more
2: Already be running jammers and masks to reduce the effectiveness of fire control
3: Fire batteries of Turbo lasers many times before you can reraise your shields assuming you still are able to.

[mars13]

no ,transport can be at any speed, and all they need are the shields frequency,and since sw cant change shield frequency only intensity,beaming aboard should be easy since st sensors are much more accurate then sw.

and what ''jamming'' does sw plan on using?considering they have never even had the concept of transport.


also,st weapons are just as powerful as sw weapons. remember when picard was assmilated? entire planets were wiped out in seconds from one borg cube,not to mention the xindi super weapon could destroy a planet with one shot.

and st does have larger structures then sw,can you say dyson sphere? its was bigger then every ship sw has combined,and no one knows how many defences it had,and that race could stillbe in the galaxy somewhere.

and if you average out the sizes of ships sw has they are about the size of the enterprise. 99% of all sw ships are tiny fighters.not huge mega ships.

and where do you plan on refueling? its a long drive back to the sw galaxy. assuming the wormhole stays open long enough to get back.

plus borg can beam throu shields and ''jammers'',and transdimensional transport has no speed or distance limits[which is what i suspect the borg use,considering they dont use conventional transport].

and,dont make me call up Q.

you cant deny that Q wouldnt at least check out the invading army and ask picard about it.

[TW Scott]

no ,transport can be at any speed, and all they need are the shields frequency,and since sw cant change shield frequency only intensity,beaming aboard should be easy since st sensors are much more accurate then sw.

falacious arguments after Falacious argument Ah what fun the ST mind comes up with

Actually they have used transporters at faster speeds but almost placed the away team in side a wall. Not conducive to getting a warhead to work. You assume that SW cannot change their shield frequencies, which is not true just by the very fact of how sheild work. And you mistakenly assume ST sensors are more accurate when you have nothing to compare it to.

[QUOTE=mars13]and what ''jamming'' does sw plan on using?considering they have never even had the concept of transport.[/qoute]

Broadband jamming of almost every frequency except their own targeting computer and communications. That means thei communcations, sensors, and scanners would be greatly reduced in effectiveness.

also,st weapons are just as powerful as sw weapons. remember when picard was assmilated? entire planets were wiped out in seconds from one borg cube,not to mention the xindi super weapon could destroy a planet with one shot.

Actually watching Wrath of Khan and nemesis again the other day I have to disagree. ST weapons are not as powerful as Star Wars. Even at point blank they did only moderate damage versus another vessel. Meanwhile in Revenge of the Sith two vessels almost blew each other apart with only a few slavoes. Considering the extreme size and heavy plating of both ships this leads me to believe that while Federation weapons are more accurate that Imperial weapons are just more destructive.

When picard was assimiliated he engaged in just one battle at wolf 359. He only sped up the likely outcome of that battle, but it would not work the same if it had ben 60 Imperial Star Destroyers.

the Xindi weapon is a threat, but easily overcome by the massive numbers and far superior strategies and tactics. I mean Imagine Admiral thrawn, Admiral Ackbar, Admiral Bel Isis, and Jedi master Luke Skywalker brainstorming.

and st does have larger structures then sw,can you say dyson sphere? its was bigger then every ship sw has combined,and no one knows how many defences it had,and that race could stillbe in the galaxy somewhere.

Does little good as a offensive weapon

and if you average out the sizes of ships sw has they are about the size of the enterprise. 99% of all sw ships are tiny fighters.not huge mega ships.

Actually more like 80% small but even a Tie fighter can stress the sheild of a ST vessel. Now imagine 6,000 Imperial Star Destroyers, 12,000 nebulan-B Frigates, 10,000 Vistory class Star Destroyers, 3 Death Stars, 2,000 Calamari Cruisers, 50,000 Corellian Corvettes, 12 Super Star Destroyers, millions of fighters and a plethora of other war worthy spacecraft. That isn't even adding in the New Republic, the Yuzhan Vong, the Ssruk, the Hapans, or the Hutts. That is more than enough ships to conquer the entire Alpha quadrant in a day and still leaves forces back home.

[QUOTE=mars13]and where do you plan on refueling? its a long drive back to the sw galaxy. assuming the wormhole stays open long enough to get back.[quote]
the same place you plan on refuelling except that Star Wars will own it instead of you. luckily we won't have to refuel or resupply for one to three years on average.

plus borg can beam throu shields and ''jammers'',and transdimensional transport has no speed or distance limits which is what i suspect the borg use,considering they dont use conventional transport.

Actually the borg seem to use just a slightly superior transporter as even One had regular transporter nodes built in and not transdimensional

and,dont make me call up Q.

you cant deny that Q wouldnt at least check out the invading army and ask picard about it.

Actually yes i can doesn't he have ha kid he is supposed to be raising. You think normal kids are a handful imagine ones like that.

Besides for all you know he could be the one to make it happen. he could know the Empire will wipe out the Borg and save humanity. thus repaying his debt.

[mars13]

if you cant show in sw canon,where sw CAN/HAS modulate ship shielding
then transporters are going to be a big problem.


and you still havent addresed the issue of a borg invasion on the invading sw galaxy.the borg like to pre-empt their enemies before they can attack. and once they do a quik scan,which they can do at trans warp, they would decide that the larger more heavily armoured ship needs to be assmilated,then,using whichever transporter method they chose[they have a few diffrent kinds at least] they would beam a million borg drones on board.now after two borg go down,the borg are now immune to blaster fire so the troopers are now effectivly unarmed,and quikly being infected with assmilation nanites,or just slaughtered by phase blasts.

and after the borg have one ships tech,they will spread it over the entire collective,and with replicater tech,they can completly reform/rebuild entire cubes in a few hours with turbo lasers that will be enhanced by the borg collective,so they will be more effecient and more powerful then the orginals.after all,this IS what they do all day everyday.

and if that doesnt work,time travel will do just fine,they might just go back and make sure life never forms in the sw galaxy,or the could just seal the worm hole immediatly after it opens.


also,Q was just toying with the sw galaxy,now hes bored. Oops,he smited your galaxy for being poorly written ,and for being to pretentious and arragont,for thinking you could take over the entire st galaxy in mere days.

''how foolish a thought'',Q thinks aloud as he finishes his sw galaxy sandwich with spicy mustard,''to think I would let this gagle of retards,degenerate gamblers,teddy bears,bigfoots,fat blob creatures,backwards talking toads,lame-o humaniods and stds[mydoclordians] ruin Picards day''.