View Poll Results: Which universe would win?

Voters
670. This poll is closed
  • Star Trek

    227 33.88%
  • Star Wars

    285 42.54%
  • Spaceballs

    51 7.61%
  • Farscape

    14 2.09%
  • Dune

    54 8.06%
  • Stargate

    39 5.82%

Thread: Star Wars vs Star Trek

  1. #9961
    Very Special Senior Member USS Athens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukqo View Post
    Whatever. You can never destroy the Star Wars universe, because you'd be killing yourself before you succeed as the Star Wars universe is the same as this one.

    This thread should have ended a long long time ago. Apparently no one figured that destroying the Star Wars universe is the same as destroying the Star Trek universe.
    Uh, that is because basic physics are seemingly different in both universes, so there, ha.

  2. #9962
    Very Special Senior Member USS Athens's Avatar
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    • 1st Generation Wars Debaters - TW Scott (before he went mad), Lord Vasago, and Fettman
    • 2nd Generation Wars Debaters - haloguy07, TW Scott (a lil' insane), Cody (perhaps, though a little late for his time)
    • 3rd Generation Wars Debaters - Skywalkerjedi, Darthraven, Rukqo, and TW Scott (now in the hands of the Federation Funny Farm)


    It would seem for the most part that the SW debaters started going bad after the 2nd generation hit (though this thread has existed longer than my existance here on SciForums).

    It would seem that I cannot classify Asguard...

  3. #9963
    The Other possible situation

    Q: *yawns and destroy the weak Jedi*

    Jedi ghost: Q, you will follow the ways of the Force and submit yourself to the will of Star Wars fans.

    Q: I will follow the ways of the Force...


    BY the way, I draw my facts from canon books/movies/comics/materials of Star Wars. I checked them up myself

    Are you kidding me? Even the most powerful Jedi cannot convince anyone
    . The Q are literally OMNIPOTENT. Nothing can possibly harm them. At all. Unless you use the Q's powers against them. Anyway, the Force is not canon in ST, so, it doesnt exist in living things in the ST universe, so, it cant be used there anyway. Using the force is manipulating the universe around you. That doesnt exist.

  4. #9964
    Quote Originally Posted by antaran_1979 View Post
    "A Force user has no limits. Yoda: Size matters not."
    it means you can do what you can do. it does not matter how large you are or the target. so sais Yoda and then he busts his ears to raise the X-Wing
    Size matters not? Then why didnt the Jedi in the movies, during the Clone Wars, use the force? There were only two Sith (Dooku/Tyranus and Palpatine/Sidious) and there were hundreds of Jedi. One at the front of each fleet can easily destroy/disable enemy ships. The mere fact that they didnt even try shows that they cant.
    "Yes, I know, Force Ghost can't DIRECTLY affect you. There is no reason why an army of millions, unwary, cannot be turned by him"

    turned??? they can only interact with force users. no force, no interaction. otherwise there would be no free will in SW.

    "And arguing that the Empire has more resources is unacceptable."
    huh? they controll at least 1/2 the galaxy. if this does not boost their resource base i don't know what will.
    More resources than the Federation? Definitely. More resources than the entire galaxy? No way. Plus, the Q can supply literally infinite resources. And, the Empire needs to defend every single planet against attack. If the Borg take hold of even a single SW planet, they will spread across the SW universe with no end in sight.
    "Anyway. There were 2 Death Stars, 1 prototype"
    the superlaser does not seam well designed to fight other ships. well statcic SW ships maybe, after they formed a perimeter around the DS.
    SW ships are so slow, they can be destroyed by superlasers. ST ships can move fast. ST ships can fire accurately at 50,000km away while at any speed.
    "A interdiction field from the Centerpoint can get rid of the traveling issue..."
    as stated interdictiors won't work on Warp Drives, or any other ST FTL we know of. especially if travelers are involved. they can reach any destination in this universe and even travel to other universes.
    Exactly. Interdictors stop hyperspace travel. It would only block their own inevitable retreat.
    "And don't forget that Imperial capital ships are called Star Destroyer. Why? Because they pack the power and ability to destroy stars..."
    LOL, right untill this i thought you were serious
    Same here. Thought he was serious.
    "Q may be strong. Actually, the stronger the better since they will be helping the Wars later. They can still be influenced by jedi even if they are invincible and physically impossible to defeat. Simply turn and change them. Anyway, if they are gods, then Anakin can count as one too since he was a human but not human-fathered..."

    how did you get the idea a Q can be influenced by the force? when Anakin is at stake, the most he can aspire for is God's child, in essence a messiah, a half god. when his abilities are concerned, he is an above average Jedi (one of the best, but i doubt he can match Windu, Yoda or Palpatine).
    Yeah. Just because the force fathered you doesnt mean you are a GOD... Like Qui Gon, you put too much faith in this boy.
    Inside the quotes.

  5. #9965
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukqo View Post
    Death Star can blow up a planet with one beam. A Star Destroyer can do the same. Look up the Caamaas Document Crisis. Canon: A few Star Destroyers destroyed Caamaas. Star Destroyers can, given time, do a huge amount of destruction.

    Then why a Death Star? Answer me this.

    A borg cube can easily be destroyed by a Death Star. A beam can punch through the infrastructure and you can kiss is goodbye. We just have to make more than 1 Death Star. Also, the magnitude of the Death Star is unstoppable. It takes at least 40 billion gigawatts to destroy a small sized planet. A Death Star can easily do that and more.

    And, can the Death Star defend 10,000 Borg Cubes descending on it? Since the 1st Death Star doesnt have shields, they will easily beam over drones, assimilate the weapon, and within hours, EVERY SINGLE BORG CUBE will have a Death Star beam. Answer this... I know you cant, but i'd like to see you try.

    An Eclipse class superstardestroyer has 12 main superweapons. If all fire at once, even a GalaxyX will be blown out of the sky.

    So? There is only 1 Eclipse... and the Q can deflect anything anyway. And, the Eclipse cant attack targets moving at the speeds Trek ships move at.

    The Q cannot make the Star Wars Universe never exist because the Star Wars universe is exactly the same as ours which is the same as the Trek Universe. "In a galaxy far far away." means that if Q destroy the Star Wars Universe, then Star Trek will never exist and thus is a paradox. So, until the Star Trek thingys happen, either Star Wars win or everything is gone. With eveything gone, Q would have never existed, and Star Wars will be never destroyed (another paradox) and Star Wars still wins.
    Q (or, really, any ST species) can simply go back in time and make sure the ancestor of all life in the Galaxy Far Far Away never existed, etc.
    If Q destroys or "unexists" anything in Star Wars, Wars can simply enter hyperspace and reverse everything the Q can do. And strike out at every single ship the Trek has..

    Uhh... how? This makes no sense. Hyperspace is not time travel and if they never existed, they cant go into Hyperspace.
    In quotes. And, Q can just make Hyperspace not exist, meaning, all ships are now grounded...

    In quotes.

  6. #9966
    Minister of Technology
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoolFromHell View Post
    In quotes. And, Q can just make Hyperspace not exist, meaning, all ships are now grounded...

    Again Q has shown no such ability. Plus if you are going to restrict each side to what they normally do....then Q will do nothing for the Federation. At most he will save Picard and Janeway and even that is questionable.

  7. #9967
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukqo View Post
    And I still don't see anyone come up with a suggestion on how Star Trek can defeat the Second Death Star alone...
    Assimilate it?

    Kill Palpatine when he is 2 yrs old?

    Beam aboard and take it over?

    Why can't it be destroyed? "Oh shit! Nobody saw the Enterprise-E being destroyed on screen! It must be invulnerable!!!!!!!!!!!"

  8. #9968
    Quote Originally Posted by USS Enterprise-B View Post
    • 1st Generation Wars Debaters - TW Scott (before he went mad), Lord Vasago, and Fettman
    • 2nd Generation Wars Debaters - haloguy07, TW Scott (a lil' insane), Cody (perhaps, though a little late for his time)
    • 3rd Generation Wars Debaters - Skywalkerjedi, Darthraven, Rukqo, and TW Scott (now in the hands of the Federation Funny Farm)


    It would seem for the most part that the SW debaters started going bad after the 2nd generation hit (though this thread has existed longer than my existance here on SciForums).

    It would seem that I cannot classify Asguard...
    TW Scott went crazy halfway through 2nd Generation.

  9. #9969
    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Again Q has shown no such ability. Plus if you are going to restrict each side to what they normally do....then Q will do nothing for the Federation. At most he will save Picard and Janeway and even that is questionable.
    We are not "restricting to what they would do", because if we were, the Jedi and Sith would rather fight each other than fight us. Personal grudges and all. We are doing all out one side vs. the other. And, okay. Maybe not destroy Hyperspace, but any technologically advanced species in Trek, especially Q, can go back in time and stop life from ever existing in the Wars galaxy. And Wars cant follow us back in time. Sorry. Or, he could kill every person who would discover warp drive. Starting with the Rakatans. Nobody would ever discover it... and....

    And, last I checked, the Iconians could teleport anywhere at will. Send all ground forces through Iconian gateways.

  10. #9970
    Oh. shit. 500 pages soon! This is a travesty!

  11. #9971
    Minister of Technology
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    Tell you what. We will keep to Paramount Canon and Lucasfilm Canon. We will invent no capabilities outside of that canon. We are allowed to invent new tactics, as long as they do not violate any of the laws and mindsets of either side.

    We will start the debate in a head on head confrontation USS Excalibur (GCS), USS Burton (Intrepid), and USS Burke (Defiant) vs An Imperial Star Destroyer Group (One ISD and 6 Strike Cruisers)

    Federation side:
    -Excalibur has been fully upgraded with Type XII Phaser Strips and Fast load photon tubes. She carries eight quantum torpedoes for use in emergencies only
    -Burton has been upgraded with Type XII Phaser Strips
    -Burke is the latest model Defiant with 4 pulse phaser emitters and 2 Type X Phaser Strips. Since she is on patrol he has mostly photon torpedoes but does carry 4 quantums for emergency fire only. the Burke does NOT have a cloaking device.
    -All three ships have Starfleet personnel aboard only. Families are enjoying a cruise on Rigel Seven.
    -Ships are in the fringes of Federation territory and are twelve hours from nearest help.
    -All ships have a mixture of races but have had no contact with the Q.


    Star Wars side
    -Standard ISD meaning 60 Turbolaser, 60 Heavy Ion Cannons, 24 Tractor beams for offense armament.
    -ISD is a Carrier of 72 Fighters, 12 Tie Bombers, 12 Tie Interceptors, 12 Skipray Gunboats, 12 Assault Shuttles, 4 Lambda Shuttles.
    -Strike Cruisers are standard escort vessels with no modifications.
    -Star Wars vessels have emerged from Hyperspace with shields up.
    -Star Wars Vessels cannot travel FTL unless they Hyperspace jump.
    --Star Wars vessels are fully loaded for ground troop compliment.

    Area of Space:
    -There is nothing here except the ships and what they are carrying.


    Now what would be Federation's opening move?

  12. #9972
    Registered Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saquist View Post
    REALLY...petawatts.
    I should definitely spend more time qualifying my statement here.

    If I'm remembering correctly, peta is the next prefix above tera. And, ditl.org (Graham Kennedy's site) rates the total output of the galaxy class' phaser arrays at 50,000 terawatts, or 50 petawatts.

    Allow me to make it absolutely clear that Kennedy's site is NOT canon; however, his information on Star Trek is the most extensive and well-researched I've ever seen. He discusses technology, common thematic elements in Star Trek, critical analysis of the episodes, and myriad of other topics.

    His weapon power outputs are based on observation and extrapolation from the episodes. Like us, he draws conclusions from the entirety of the Star Trek universe; he doesn't focus on a one or two obscure lines (such as Worf's comments in TNG's Survivors) that lack proper context.

  13. #9973
    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Tell you what. We will keep to Paramount Canon and Lucasfilm Canon. We will invent no capabilities outside of that canon. We are allowed to invent new tactics, as long as they do not violate any of the laws and mindsets of either side.

    We will start the debate in a head on head confrontation USS Excalibur (GCS), USS Burton (Intrepid), and USS Burke (Defiant) vs An Imperial Star Destroyer Group (One ISD and 6 Strike Cruisers)

    Federation side:
    -Excalibur has been fully upgraded with Type XII Phaser Strips and Fast load photon tubes. She carries eight quantum torpedoes for use in emergencies only
    -Burton has been upgraded with Type XII Phaser Strips
    -Burke is the latest model Defiant with 4 pulse phaser emitters and 2 Type X Phaser Strips. Since she is on patrol he has mostly photon torpedoes but does carry 4 quantums for emergency fire only. the Burke does NOT have a cloaking device.
    -All three ships have Starfleet personnel aboard only. Families are enjoying a cruise on Rigel Seven.
    -Ships are in the fringes of Federation territory and are twelve hours from nearest help.
    -All ships have a mixture of races but have had no contact with the Q.


    Star Wars side
    -Standard ISD meaning 60 Turbolaser, 60 Heavy Ion Cannons, 24 Tractor beams for offense armament.
    -ISD is a Carrier of 72 Fighters, 12 Tie Bombers, 12 Tie Interceptors, 12 Skipray Gunboats, 12 Assault Shuttles, 4 Lambda Shuttles.
    -Strike Cruisers are standard escort vessels with no modifications.
    -Star Wars vessels have emerged from Hyperspace with shields up.
    -Star Wars Vessels cannot travel FTL unless they Hyperspace jump.
    --Star Wars vessels are fully loaded for ground troop compliment.

    Area of Space:
    -There is nothing here except the ships and what they are carrying.


    Now what would be Federation's opening move?
    Fair enough.

    Feds opening move is: "Flagship", the Excalibur Hails the ISD, informs them that they are in Federation Territory and inquires as to their intentions.

    and i'm out for the night so some one else can pick this up...

  14. #9974
    Minister of Technology
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoolFromHell View Post
    We are not "restricting to what they would do", because if we were, the Jedi and Sith would rather fight each other than fight us. Personal grudges and all. We are doing all out one side vs. the other. And, okay. Maybe not destroy Hyperspace, but any technologically advanced species in Trek, especially Q, can go back in time and stop life from ever existing in the Wars galaxy. And Wars cant follow us back in time. Sorry. Or, he could kill every person who would discover warp drive. Starting with the Rakatans. Nobody would ever discover it... and....

    And, last I checked, the Iconians could teleport anywhere at will. Send all ground forces through Iconian gateways.
    Okay, you are assuming the Q could affect the Rakatans, a race of force users themselves. Second you are assuming that a being that has never interfered in a war before will start here. The Jedi and Sith have fought in wars, the Q have not in the show ever. The Iconians are long dead and that is a bucket of worms you do not wish to reopen.

    This is supposed to be a conflict between the mortal races. If you start including the races like Q you have to hhave a damn good reason. Deciding they would to help out the hmans is bS becuase the Empire is humans as well. that fact alone the Q, Organians and every last supposedly omnipotent race would sit this conflict out.

  15. #9975
    Minister of Technology
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flectarn View Post
    Fair enough.

    Feds opening move is: "Flagship", the Excalibur Hails the ISD, informs them that they are in Federation Territory and inquires as to their intentions.

    and i'm out for the night so some one else can pick this up...
    Okay Imperials first move is to power up weapons and ECM, but not fire. they will respond to hail with video feed on an officer in uniform flanked by stormtroopers. Strike Cruisers will be moving to effectively create a screen for the larger vessel.

    "This is Admiral Hentor of the Imperial Star Destroyer Devastator. We are on an exploration and cartography mission in the name of the Galactic Empire. Your cooperation and compliance will be noted in my report."

  16. #9976
    Very Special Senior Member USS Athens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flectarn View Post
    Fair enough.

    Feds opening move is: "Flagship", the Excalibur Hails the ISD, informs them that they are in Federation Territory and inquires as to their intentions.

    and I'm out for the night so some one else can pick this up...
    Like usual the Imps attack, but are overwhelmed by the fact that their turreted weapons cannot hit the ST ships going at 80% the speed of light.

    Excalibur warns ISD to stand down (ignored).

    Burton lays waste to the external shield generators giving the ST ships a window.

    Excalibur warns the ISD one last time. Once again ignored.

    The flagship targets the bridge of the ISD and promptly destroys it.

  17. #9977
    Minister of Technology
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    Quote Originally Posted by USS Enterprise-B View Post
    Like usual the Imps attack, but are overwhelmed by the fact that their turreted weapons cannot hit the ST ships going at 80% the speed of light.

    Excalibur warns ISD to stand down (ignored).

    Burton lays waste to the external shield generators giving the ST ships a window.

    Excalibur warns the ISD one last time. Once again ignored.

    The flagship targets the bridge of the ISD and promptly destroys it.
    Then Enterprise B wakes up from his little dream and stares blankly at the cell walls of the cell and wonders what went wrong. not remebering that combat speeds in ST were .25 light at best and usually MUCH slower. Infact they never show in the show them fighting at any speed only a few kilometers a second except when the experimental computer was controlling TOS Enterprise.

    Also the shield generators of all ISD are internal. thos globes are sensor arrays. The reason the BRIGE shields were brought down in ROTJ was a combination of heavy concentrated firepower straining the shields and the destruction of said sensor arrays which was very near the bridge.

    Now please someone with a working braincell continue from where I left off.

  18. #9978
    Minister of Technology
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    Quote Originally Posted by USS Enterprise-B View Post
    Uh, that is because basic physics are seemingly different in both universes, so there, ha.
    very true in Star Wars universe the laws of Physics seems to actually apply whereas in Star Trek they ony apply if it doesn't mess up the story.

  19. #9979
    Registered Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Then Enterprise B wakes up from his little dream and stares blankly at the cell walls of the cell and wonders what went wrong. not remebering that combat speeds in ST were .25 light at best
    You do realize that 25 percent the speed of light is still 75,000 kps? And I've seen absolutely no indication that the turreted weapons of an ISD can track at such a velocity.

    Furthermore, we've repeatedly witnessed the Enterprise using its weapons effectively at warp speeds (ST:TMP, TOS: Balance of Terror, etc.).

  20. #9980
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukqo View Post
    And I still don't see anyone come up with a suggestion on how Star Trek can defeat the Second Death Star alone...
    if you mean the one orbiting the forest moon of Endor, then here's what i'd do:
    (basicly what the rebels did) do a landing party, blow the shield generators (making a stew ot of the "best" storm troopers is optional), and then simply launch a small craft inside. if a 40m Falcon can get in, an UFP fighter or runabout can, and UGP small craft has far better firing arcs and weapons.

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