Star Wars vs Star Trek

[antaran_1979]

Thats why Star Wars is Sicience Fiction, Keyword FICTION.

the keyword is underpowered

[antaran_1979]

So, Compare that with turbolasers, not blaster cannons.

we did compare them. they are capable of defragmenting a 6m asteroid with a single shot from their weakest weapons. what we need now is the distructive ratios of all of their ordinace.

[Saquist]

i would not call it fission either since the end products (under ideal conditions) would be gamma photons instead of lighter cores, but yes it's closer to fission then fusion. still the fundamental diference is that both fission and fusion tap into the mass defect betwean the reactants and the end product wile the anihilation asumes total conversion, of mass into energy.

No I wouldn't call it fission or fussion.
Fussion and Fission deal directly with the bond between the main part of the atom, Neutron, Proton, electron...The bonds! That is the Strong Nuclear Force.

Antimatter/Matter recations deal (I believe) with the spin of the atom. When these two meet it is not just the bond that is broken, the atom...the protons and the Quarks ...everything thing is converted directly into energy. It doesn't even require a "perfect" universe.

Further:
Antaran that is an excellent example of Phaser duration
But tell me what did you make of Sovereign's ability to maintain that beam for more than 20 seconds.

[antaran_1979]

Yes I do. I said Atom Ionization having enough power to power a miniature sun.

ionizatios an EM property. the electron leaves the energy level because it has been "hit" by a matching photon. no phoyon holds eough energy (or strong nuclear properties for that matter) to simulate a mini-sun. tu simulate a sun you need fusion.

[SkywalkerJedi]

So? Turbolasers don't vaporize material, they use kinetic energy and force, not heat. Turbolaser are designed to blast material not heat it. If the target is smaller then a yachet or a light freighter and with demilitarized deflector shields, it will be superheated into plasma.

[SkywalkerJedi]

ionizatios an EM property. the electron leaves the energy level because it has been "hit" by a matching photon. no phoyon holds eough energy (or strong nuclear properties for that matter) to simulate a mini-sun. tu simulate a sun you need fusion.

So thats why Star Wars and Star Trek is Science Fiction, not non-fiction. I said that the energy created is enough to power a miniature sun.

[antaran_1979]

No I wouldn't call it fission or fussion.
Fussion and Fission deal directly with the bond between the main part of the atom, Neutron, Proton, electron...The bonds! That is the Strong Nuclear Force.

Antimatter/Matter recations deal (I believe) with the spin of the atom. When these two meet it is not just the bond that is broken, the atom...the protons and the Quarks ...everything thing is converted directly into energy. It doesn't even require a "perfect" universe.

Further:
Antaran that is an excellent example of Phaser duration
But tell me what did you make of Sovereign's ability to maintain that beam for more than 20 seconds.

i still don't have FC or Nemesis on disk to make precise estimates. from my VHS copy, i can say they must have:
1. better energy reserve for the phaser banks
2. slower heeting ratios
3. faster cool-down times
4. higher energy output for for the phaser system (eihter a better WarpCore or better EPS)
5. combination of the above

[antaran_1979]

So? Turbolasers don't vaporize material, they use kinetic energy and force, not heat. Turbolaser are designed to blast material not heat it. If the target is smaller then a yachet or a light freighter and with demilitarized deflector shields, it will be superheated into plasma.

but onscreen evidence show this is not true. the material is scattered evenly in all direction at very low speeds. it must be a nuclear or subnuclear disruption at some level.

[antaran_1979]

So thats why Star Wars and Star Trek is Science Fiction, not non-fiction. I said that the energy created is enough to power a miniature sun.

you don't get it. ionization is not an energy productive process. it's energy demanding process. you don't acheave fusion by ionizing attoms, you ionize atoms by achevinf fusion (a silly example, you can ionize atoms by rubbing them).

[SkywalkerJedi]

Some turbolaser batteries don't even need to cool down, some need very little time to cool down. The ISDs in the astroid field's guns need time too cool down because, they have been using all it's turbolasers for days on numerous astroids. Remember that is ISDs ,ISDs are not as good as Ventors. I don't support the Empire, the only person I support form the Galactic Empire is Vader and Thrawn. I support the Republic. In any of the Clone Wars animation, or the movies, a ventor never re-fueld, don't get me wrong I do belive they have to re-fuel but they do it very rarely. Also the Republic have Hyperdrive advantage.

[Saquist]

the main ventral phaser array apears 6.9m wide. if we presume no beam disipitation (highly focused beam), the "Inheritance" leads to conclusion that E-D can drill a 7m wide whole at a rate of 2km in under 6s. or 333.33m per second. this can allso be translated to 48 cylindrical pieces of rock long 6.9m with a diameter of 6.9m. this is done by a setting of about 24%. to make this estemate more comparable to SW, they turn a 69m spherical asteroid of solid rock into nothing each second and they fire for 19s in continuation. this is the apsolute minimum. there is no way to tell that the hole is as wide as the beam. Geordy sais that they will fire as focused as possible but as we see in "Legacy" the previos modification allowed them to drill a hole 25 times wider than the beam. they fire for 14s and drill trough 1600m of solid granite. this gives us 114m per second of depth for a 172m wide hole. or a 252m wide sphere of granite every second for 14s into allmost nothing (we do see some dust but it may be enviromental). if this was a lower setting, seing how they could fire indefinitly then the hole in "Inheritance" was most likely wider then 6.9m, but probably less wide then in "Legacy". if they were firing full phasers ..... well we jsut need to look at he Borg cube in Q-Who to see the effects.

Those numbers match superbly well against "Q Who" where work is presumed to be using Max power settings on the Phasers and blows through an amazing amount of material is just a second. This is truely a massive scale.

To compare the Effects of TIE fighter lasers on solid rock...there is simplely no comparison even with the Galaxy's beam set to 24 % of MAX
The TIE's created only flashes on the rock surface in the Asteroid in the Falcon chase.

Fighters have been used against captial ships in Return of the Jedi. We see two examples of the X wings and A-wings breaching the shields and hull of the shield generators of the Executor class stardestroyer.

I presume this means Fighter lasers are tunneling weapons. The damage is a penetrating of one point as we might see against the Y-wings in A New Hope...so maybe that's why there is no visible damage at impact point.

However...If that were true...then the laser blast from Slave one were either not lasers or incredibily advanced over the future turbo laser emplacements.
The latter is definitely uncanon.

[SkywalkerJedi]

but onscreen evidence show this is not true. the material is scattered evenly in all direction at very low speeds. it must be a nuclear or subnuclear disruption at some level.

But it still involves the force of the turbolaser and the kenitic energy.

[SkywalkerJedi]

you don't get it. ionization is not an energy productive process. it's energy demanding process. you don't acheave fusion by ionizing attoms, you ionize atoms by achevinf fusion (a silly example, you can ionize atoms by rubbing them).

I never said they use fusion power! I said the energy provided is equal to a miniature sun's. It is Science Fiction, so if you ask me how they did that, it is Science Fiction.

[SkywalkerJedi]

Those numbers match superbly well against "Q Who" where work is presumed to be using Max power settings on the Phasers and blows through an amazing amount of material is just a second. This is truely a massive scale.

To compare the Effects of TIE fighter lasers on solid rock...there is simplely no comparison even with the Galaxy's beam set to 24 % of MAX
The TIE's created only flashes on the rock surface in the Asteroid in the Falcon chase.

Fighters have been used against captial ships in Return of the Jedi. We see two examples of the X wings and A-wings breaching the shields and hull of the shield generators of the Executor class stardestroyer.

I presume this means Fighter lasers are tunneling weapons. The damage is a penetrating of one point as we might see against the Y-wings in A New Hope...so maybe that's why there is no visible damage at impact point.

However...If that were true...then the laser blast from Slave one were either not lasers or incredibily advanced over the future turbo laser emplacements.
The latter is definitely uncanon.

The A-wing destoryed the shield generator because the SSD didn't use it's guns on Palpatine's orders. The A-wing is traveling at high speeds with a good hull and shield.Slave 1's guns are repeating blaster cannons.GAR ( Grand Army of the Republic ) is better, I think mainly because most of the GAR's commandos and the best technicians turned to the rebles or went rouge. Remember the Manidorians are one of the best armies in the galaxy, and Slave 1 is Manidorian.

[SkywalkerJedi]

You guys are forgetting that UFP have no infantry and a primitive, poor little fleet. The GAR can send all the RCs and ARCs down and wipe out the Sercurity.

[Saquist]

But it still involves the force of the turbolaser and the kenitic energy.

Involves yes.
Primary....Far from it. The force of the blast is almost playing less than 1% of damage. We know because the Asteroid doesn't move. That alone tells us it is almost pure energy. so the idea that it is plasma based is a fallacy.

The A-wing destoryed the shield generator because the SSD didn't use it's guns on Palpatine's orders. The A-wing is traveling at high speeds with a good hull and shield.Slave 1's guns are repeating blaster cannons.GAR ( Grand Army of the Republic ) is better, I think mainly because most of the GAR's commandos and the best technicians turned to the rebles or went rouge. Remember the Manidorians are one of the best armies in the galaxy, and Slave 1 is Manidorian.

The scenario is irrelevant.
The claim that Slave One's blasters were 20 years ahead of there time is unsupported. I also can not confirm the Slave One was using Blasters and not lasers. I would request a canon source.

[Hotspur]

So? Turbolasers don't vaporize material, they use kinetic energy and force, not heat. Turbolaser are designed to blast material not heat it.

Excellent.

So you concede that Wong's turbolaser calculations based on the asteroid scene in ESB are absolutely bunk. The allegedly iron/nickel asteroid could not have been vaporized because, as you just stated, "turbolasters don't vaporize metal." Rather, the bulk of the asteroid shattered into fragments after the impact of the turbolaser bolt created a minor thermal flash.

[Saquist]

You guys are forgetting that UFP have no infantry and a primitive, poor little fleet. The GAR can send all the RCs and ARCs down and wipe out the Sercurity.

That the Federation has no infantry is not a canon statement.
Star Fleet does have marines. Star Fleet did use Ground forces to retake Cardassia. Your knowledge appears antiquated.
The need for a standing army is nonexistent with transporter and orbital bombardment technology.

Why express these cancelled and ancient ideas of war.

[SkywalkerJedi]

You guys are forgetting that the Republic don't speak English, they speak Galactic Basic, so if Sercurity try to warn the ARCs and RCs they can't understand them, they will get blasted before they can even scream. There is a very very small chance they will scream or sound the alarm, but if they do the RC snipers can take care of them, and RCs and ARCs have Chaingun Blasters, Portable blaster cannon, Portable Rocket Launchers, and every four have their own LATT/i Gunship.

[SkywalkerJedi]

Involves yes.
Primary....Far from it. The force of the blast is almost playing less than 1% of damage. We know because the Asteroid doesn't move. That alone tells us it is almost pure energy. so the idea that it is plasma based is a fallacy.




The scenario is irrelevant.
The claim that Slave One's blasters were 20 years ahead of there time is unsupported. I also can not confirm the Slave One was using Blasters and not lasers. I would request a canon source.

You are right the force barly do any damage. Here is a canon source

http://www.starwars.com/databank/sta...vei/index.html
They are only called lasers, there is two names for laser cannons, one is Blaster Cannon and one is Laser Cannon.