View Poll Results: Which universe would win?

Voters
670. This poll is closed
  • Star Trek

    227 33.88%
  • Star Wars

    285 42.54%
  • Spaceballs

    51 7.61%
  • Farscape

    14 2.09%
  • Dune

    54 8.06%
  • Stargate

    39 5.82%

Thread: Star Wars vs Star Trek

  1. #9601
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Oh, and Scott... a matter/anti-matter reactor... is actually Nuclear Fission on a grand scale...

    Fusion = two (or more) particles "FUSE" into one... hence FUSion...

    Fission = two (or more) particles collide and SPLIT, which is what a M/AM reaction is... Anti-Matter, when coming in contact with it's true-matter counterpart, creates a reaction so potent both particles are 100% annihilated.

    Thus, M/AM is a very advanced form of Fission with a 110% success rate as there is NO creation of Dark Matter nor Negative Energy since there is, quite simply, NO MASS LEFT to form Dark Matter.

  2. #9602
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    i would not call it fission either since the end products (under ideal conditions) would be gamma photons instead of lighter cores, but yes it's closer to fission then fusion. still the fundamental diference is that both fission and fusion tap into the mass defect betwean the reactants and the end product wile the anihilation asumes total conversion, of mass into energy.

  3. #9603
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    True, but in a perfect world, total nuclear fission would result in total anihilation. However, due to elements we don't yet fully understand, it does not (I'm not factoring in waste heat, loss of energy due to reactant impurities, etc)

  4. #9604
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Oh, and Scott... a matter/anti-matter reactor... is actually Nuclear Fission on a grand scale...

    Fusion = two (or more) particles "FUSE" into one... hence FUSion...

    Fission = two (or more) particles collide and SPLIT, which is what a M/AM reaction is... Anti-Matter, when coming in contact with it's true-matter counterpart, creates a reaction so potent both particles are 100% annihilated.

    Thus, M/AM is a very advanced form of Fission with a 110% success rate as there is NO creation of Dark Matter nor Negative Energy since there is, quite simply, NO MASS LEFT to form Dark Matter.
    ISDs use atom ionization that can power a miniature sun. As i said the warp core is too big, the hyperdrive generators are less clumsy, smaller and faster then warp drive. ISD's generators are very small. ( sorce: Star Wars Insider )
    Too bad that the Warp as slow as snail.

  5. #9605
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Everybody remember this equation
    E=MC2, Energy= Mass x celetrais2
    Matter is only a small pecentage of our universe, our universe is mostly made of Dark Matter.

  6. #9606
    Quote Originally Posted by SkywalkerJedi View Post
    Everybody remember this equation
    E=MC2, Energy= Mass x celetrais2
    Matter is only a small pecentage of our universe, our universe is mostly made of Dark Matter.
    energy = mass(speed of light)^2

    whats your point?

    and, i may be wrong here, but isn't dark matter yet to be confirmed by experiment... it's more of an idea to fill in some gaps in the equations

  7. #9607
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkywalkerJedi View Post
    ISDs use atom ionization that can power a miniature sun. As i said the warp core is too big, the hyperdrive generators are less clumsy, smaller and faster then warp drive. ISD's generators are very small. ( sorce: Star Wars Insider )
    Too bad that the Warp as slow as snail.
    atom ionization to power a miniature sun??? you must be joking!!! if you want to emulate a sun you need hydrogen-lithium fusion cycle or something similar. simple ionization won't do. if you even know what ionizations is that is....

  8. #9608
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    True, but in a perfect world, total nuclear fission would result in total anihilation. However, due to elements we don't yet fully understand, it does not (I'm not factoring in waste heat, loss of energy due to reactant impurities, etc)
    i'm not so shure. no fission process can go beyond hydrogen1,0 as an end result. there is just no way to break this atom by utilising strong nuclear force (which is what fission and fusion are all about). even more so the last several break-ups would be energy-ineficient, t.i. the total energy required to break up He2,4 into He2,3 or H1,1 will be higher then teh energy released by that action. from all nuclear reactions possible, the conversion ov H into He is the most energy eficient variant.

  9. #9609
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    Quote Originally Posted by antaran_1979 View Post
    atom ionization to power a miniature sun??? you must be joking!!! if you want to emulate a sun you need hydrogen-lithium fusion cycle or something similar. simple ionization won't do. if you even know what ionizations is that is....
    Good catch, antaran.

    And if an atom ionization source was generating the energy of a miniature sun, it would probably need to be as large as a normal sun.
    Last edited by Hotspur; 04-01-08 at 04:35 PM.

  10. #9610
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotspur View Post
    Good catch, antaran.

    And if an atom ionization source was generating the energy of a miniature sun, it would probably need to be as large as a normal sun.
    lol even that would not do. in example, if you take a large quantity of ionized helium or hydrogen (roughly the quantity our star has) what you will get is a nebula. id you wait long enough this nebula may colapse into a star. but that would involve more then simple ionization

  11. #9611
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    here follows some onscreen use of phasers for drilling through rocks.



  12. #9612
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    this caps are from "Legacy".
    they nead to penetrate 1.6km.
    they fire for 14s with no indication that they can't fire any longer.
    it is stated that the point is covered by 2km of solid granite.
    they modify the phaser for "drilling". what those modifications include we can not say from this episode but a season7 episode "Inheritance" will provide more info.

  13. #9613
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    Quote Originally Posted by antaran_1979 View Post
    lol even that would not do. in example, if you take a large quantity of ionized helium or hydrogen (roughly the quantity our star has) what you will get is a nebula. id you wait long enough this nebula may colapse into a star. but that would involve more then simple ionization
    In essence, one would need a power generation source the size of a nebula. I guess this completely dispels the notion of the highly compact, efficient Star Wars reactors, eh?


  14. #9614
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    here are the caps from "Inheritance"




    they wanna minimise the seismic stress wile they are drilling. they reconfingured the phasers to emit the most phocused beam possible.
    the first phaser blast will be aprox 19s in duration. the actual drilling lasts less then 16s. the firs 6s they drill but no data is displayed. at 5.8 s Data sais they are 2km away from the pocket. his Mother sais another 5s should do it. after aproximatly 6s they reach the pocket. the beam lasts another 4s, probably to raise the temperature of the core.

    this indicates that modifications for drilling most likely involve narrow focusing to avoid cave-ins. allso we know from previous episodes that no phaser blast at full power lasted more then 1.1s, but we allso know that they can make 3-4 such blasts in rapid sucesion. so i'll asume that at full power the phasers can fire 4.5s in duration before the banks need to be recharged. this implies that the phasers in "Inheritance" fired at 24% intensity. the setting for "Legacy" was probably lower, but the beam was less focused too.

  15. #9615
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotspur View Post
    In essence, one would need a power generation source the size of a nebula. I guess this completely dispels the notion of the highly compact, efficient Star Wars reactors, eh?

    in essence there is nothing special about ionized gas or plasma. it may exist even in "cold" temperatures (a neon light). what is so special about the fusion process is not the highly ionized state of the matter in the outer layers of the star, but the immense presure inside it that allows for high energy colisions of the atomic cores (not simple ions) to fuse into heavier elements.

  16. #9616
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antaran_1979 View Post
    atom ionization to power a miniature sun??? you must be joking!!! if you want to emulate a sun you need hydrogen-lithium fusion cycle or something similar. simple ionization won't do. if you even know what ionizations is that is....
    Yes I do. I said Atom Ionization having enough power to power a miniature sun.

  17. #9617
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antaran_1979 View Post
    here follows some onscreen use of phasers for drilling through rocks.


    So, Compare that with turbolasers, not blaster cannons.

  18. #9618
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotspur View Post
    Good catch, antaran.

    And if an atom ionization source was generating the energy of a miniature sun, it would probably need to be as large as a normal sun.
    Thats why Star Wars is Sicience Fiction, Keyword FICTION.

  19. #9619
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antaran_1979 View Post
    here are the caps from "Inheritance"




    they wanna minimise the seismic stress wile they are drilling. they reconfingured the phasers to emit the most phocused beam possible.
    the first phaser blast will be aprox 19s in duration. the actual drilling lasts less then 16s. the firs 6s they drill but no data is displayed. at 5.8 s Data sais they are 2km away from the pocket. his Mother sais another 5s should do it. after aproximatly 6s they reach the pocket. the beam lasts another 4s, probably to raise the temperature of the core.

    this indicates that modifications for drilling most likely involve narrow focusing to avoid cave-ins. allso we know from previous episodes that no phaser blast at full power lasted more then 1.1s, but we allso know that they can make 3-4 such blasts in rapid sucesion. so i'll asume that at full power the phasers can fire 4.5s in duration before the banks need to be recharged. this implies that the phasers in "Inheritance" fired at 24% intensity. the setting for "Legacy" was probably lower, but the beam was less focused too.
    Big fuss, all the Turbolasers on a ISD shooting at a same spot at once can crack a planet, not destroy, it is crack the crust. Who cares about drilling when Turbolasers can crack the crust. Warp is very slow you know, and Star Wars have Centerpoint Station.

  20. #9620
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    the main ventral phaser array apears 6.9m wide. if we presume no beam disipitation (highly focused beam), the "Inheritance" leads to conclusion that E-D can drill a 7m wide whole at a rate of 2km in under 6s. or 333.33m per second. this can allso be translated to 48 cylindrical pieces of rock long 6.9m with a diameter of 6.9m. this is done by a setting of about 24%. to make this estemate more comparable to SW, they turn a 69m spherical asteroid of solid rock into nothing each second and they fire for 19s in continuation. this is the apsolute minimum. there is no way to tell that the hole is as wide as the beam. Geordy sais that they will fire as focused as possible but as we see in "Legacy" the previos modification allowed them to drill a hole 25 times wider than the beam. they fire for 14s and drill trough 1600m of solid granite. this gives us 114m per second of depth for a 172m wide hole. or a 252m wide sphere of granite every second for 14s into allmost nothing (we do see some dust but it may be enviromental). if this was a lower setting, seing how they could fire indefinitly then the hole in "Inheritance" was most likely wider then 6.9m, but probably less wide then in "Legacy". if they were firing full phasers ..... well we jsut need to look at he Borg cube in Q-Who to see the effects.

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