View Poll Results: Which universe would win?

Voters
670. This poll is closed
  • Star Trek

    227 33.88%
  • Star Wars

    285 42.54%
  • Spaceballs

    51 7.61%
  • Farscape

    14 2.09%
  • Dune

    54 8.06%
  • Stargate

    39 5.82%

Thread: Star Wars vs Star Trek

  1. #9361
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkywalkerJedi View Post
    Ya, blasters are the handheld weapons. SW have Turbolasers!
    phasers can allso be hand held. at full power they compleatly desintegrate or vaporize or whatever you call it a human sized target. they blast trough several cubic meters of solid rock. the only thing they can not do is your laundry

  2. #9362
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkywalkerJedi View Post
    Thats why they don't shoot, they are saving it for the Falcon.
    HAHAHAHA!!!!!!
    they are "saving it"?????
    what part are they saving if you don't mind me asking? oh yes i know!!!! the command tower

  3. #9363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    That doesn't make sense. They should be able to adapt to their weapons, even if they could not assimilate them, no?
    Not unless they've encountered the weapon previously.

    The key to Borg adaption is assimilation. In "Q Who," the Borg didn't adapt to the Enterprise's weapons until they had assimilated some crewmen.

  4. #9364
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    And they were using the guns for days. The Hoth field is murderous, if you are big as an ISD, you are bound to be hit. No defense system is perfect.
    i agree that the ISDs had no bussines being there. they are just so easy to hit. but there is no indication they were weaponless. the ISD that pursued the Falcon was capable of firing and they wee allready exiting the field in their pursuit, which leads to the conclusion that they actualy went through more asteroids to get there.
    there are several posibilities as to why the did not fire though...

    1. the asteroid was comming in to fast. either to fast for their main guns (since this was a large asteroid) or to fast for their targeting systems.
    2. it was coming in from a blind spot. not likely since ISDs are seamingly covered with bateries on all sides. however since this was a much larger asteroid the all shot before they maybe neaded to shot it with their main guns. these guns are on lateral broad side placements and there is just no way they can cover this high + y axis angle.
    3. since this asteroid was to big to destroy dey desided not to bother shooting it but instead divert full power to shields or something.

    i personaly favor a combination of 1 and 2. the possibity 4 would be that the imperials are utterly incompetant, but that makes no sence.

  5. #9365
    Registered Member Cody's Avatar
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    Probably One, since asteroids can be very fast in some circumstances.

  6. #9366
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    That doesn't make sense. They should be able to adapt to their weapons, even if they could not assimilate them, no?
    i don't think there is an official explanation why the Borg can't adapt to the species 8472. at least not that i can remember. i don't have all the Voyager episodes on disk. if someone has them they may enlighten us.

    maybe it was something to do with the fact that species 8472 and their technology were originating from another dimension. we do know that modified nano probes were extrimely efective against them though.

  7. #9367
    Registered Member Cody's Avatar
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    No, I remember. It was something about brute force.

  8. #9368
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    ok interesting speculation for al of you SF fans (and it's related to the main topic), diference betwean pulses and beams.

    we are not shure about TLs, but both phasers and disruptors show the ability to be used as pulses or beams. what is the diference and what are the advantages. the folowing is strictly my speculation based upon what we see on screen.

    let us say that you as a weapon designer have no tech dificulties to build your weapon as either or both. so if we asume that your weapon can chanell 10^6 jules of energy per second or 10^6 watts, you can do it buy "compressing" this energy in a 1/10 s bolt or pulse or you can chanell it in a 1s duration beam. how will these weapons act upon contact. the bolt will transfer all of its energy much faster. thus if they hit a target all of the bolt will "detonate" (i asume this is a particle weapon-directed energy) at once. examples of this are seen when even the smallest allmost invisble asteroids cause the TL bolts to detonate compleatly or when the Defiant shots her pulse phaser at teh Jem'Hadar. we know little of SW shields. but ST shields are modulated and unless otherwise specified this modulation is computer controlled so that the shield tryes to conform as best as possible to deflect incomig fire. now, if the all the energy is released at once the shield has little time to adapt, thus pulses and bolts are more eficient when combating heavy shielding.
    beams on hte other hand do not deliver all their energy at once. thus in the first 1/10 s they will deliver only 10% of their damage potential. this will give the shield time to adapt. however if the shield is allready penetrated the bolts have on disadvantage. they will detonate with all their power imediatly on impact. thus most of the blast will hit the surface of the target. this makes bolts and pulses less armor penetrating. we have an example of this when the snow speeders can't penetrate AT-AT armor. they don't even scratch it. since all the energy is released on impact most of it disipitates outwards. beams do not have this problem. we see that when the E-D fires her first 1.1s beam at the cube it not just makes a hole it, but drives right through. so the beams, being continous in nature do not loose all their energy on initial contact and provide the "drilling" armor piercing efect.

    which weapon is beter? well both i guess. it mostly depends on what type of enemy you are figthing. if the enemy is wuth strong shields, you need pulses, if the enemy has strong armor you need beams. i would prefer a combination of both just to be on the safe side

    opinions?

  9. #9369
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    No, I remember. It was something about brute force.
    that won't do. we need documented sighting.
    i can't tell really. for me the Borg ability to adapt has always bean dubious. do they have shields or not? do they adapt or not? is their adaptation limited to the power level or not? Voyager just makes it worst. originaly the cube did not have any shields except for strong EM field to prevent beaming from long range. the cube just apeared to adapt to the deferent types of damage it sustained. do note that allthough they drilled 3 holes in it with phasers before it adapted, it was allready imune to ther photon torpedoes (in Q-Who). this probably means that the have incountered photon torpedoes before. however later in Voyager 7 of 9 claims regenerative shielding on some borg vessels. the cube in First contact allthough largely resistant was still takng damage from all weapons. so what is Borg imunity?
    my guess woul be some combination of energy screens and adaptive shielding. maybe some ships have only on of those or both. the screens provide reduced eficiency for some attacks, while the shields deflect incoming damage. the screens form some secondary backup system of protection after the shield fails. i'd guess the drones do not really have shileds as such, buth rather adaptive screens. this would explain why they suffer melee damage but are resistant to incoming particle and directed energy attacks.
    but this is just a guess. nowhere on screen are this things mentioned.

  10. #9370
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    here is what i found on the net:

    Species 8472 is telepathic in nature, and at this point, it is unknown if they have a spoken language or not. They emit a bio-electric field that disrupts the transporter, preventing getting a lock on or near them. Narrowing the transporter confinement beam doesn't work. The bio-electric field also prevents tricorders from being able to localize the location of Species 8472. The cells of this species are densely coded and have more than one hundred times the DNA a human cell would have. They have an extrordinary immune response. Anything that enters the cell membrane are immediately destroyed. Therefore, the Borg can't assimilate them. They are highly resistant to all forms of technology. However, species 8472 is vulnerable to the modified nanoprobes. Species 8472 is made of the same material as their ships. They are capable of living in the vaccuum of space with no life support. They can also crawl along the hull of a starship without additional support. They are also capable of regeneration. Species 8472 don't particularly like being in humanoid form and having to do things such as sleep, bi-pedal movement, and breathing oxygen.

  11. #9371
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    Species 8472 attacks with their claws whenever they can. This will transfer their cells to the victim. These cells, once in the victim's blood, will begin to consume the body from the inside out, essentially eating the victim alive. The victim will be conscious during this process because all sedatives and other treatments to the infection are neutralized immediately. While the fire power of one ship is extrordinary, they can combine their fire power by forming a circle with a number of other ships, with one ship in the center of the circle. All the ships fire at the main center ship, which collects the fire power and amplifies it out, causing enough fire power to destroy a planet.

  12. #9372
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    "Species 8472 use organic biomass ships (which appear to be actual living lifeform as opposed to just organic components as evidenced by the vertabrae seen upon entering the ship). Each biomass ship has a crew complement of one. The ships seem to be impervious to Federation (or Borg, for that matter) technology: ship sensors can't penetrate the surface of the biomass ship, transporters can't lock onto it, and the tractor beam has no affect on it. It has been demonstrated that the biomass can dissolve through the hulls of Borg ships and therefore can probably dissolve through the hull of the Voyager. Wherever Species 8472 came from, their ships use warp propulsion with anti-matter technology. Inside the ship, there are organic conduits which carry an electro-dynamic fluid. This quite possibly could be an energy source. There is also a binary matrix laced with neural peptides, which could be their idea of a computer core. The biomass ships have the ability to regenerate themselves."

    they look to me as if they were an imunlogical responce, and not a species. this goes for their ships too. so i can't tell what is the base of their power. maybe it is in hte ability to bypass most defences.

  13. #9373
    Registered Member Cody's Avatar
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    I know 8472's weakness: They are gutless. Kill a half-dozen off them and they retreat. Like in Scorpion.

  14. #9374
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkywalkerJedi View Post
    A hundred ISDs? dude you are making stuff up, I ISD can destory a cube,
    The evidence does not support that conclusion. At most, ISDs have about 1 megaton for heavy turbolasers. The Borg on the other hand, can easily absorb the output of a starships warp engines, and MT level weapons without a problem.


    because it have 60 turbolaser batteries they can all pinpoint at the same spot so thats why it is made like a triangle so they can fire at the same place.
    ...so what?

    Read the whole page of Lucas' interview, he said it is canon.
    Really? You mind posting it and giving me the link?


    Accroding to Star Trek there is no wormhole outside the Milkyway so neither Star Trek is lying or there is no connetion wormhole ( Republic won't mind because they can get to Milkyway in 2 years, Federation will take centries and transwarp drive is slow compared to hyperdrive)
    Are you stupid, or do you have a short memory.

    There would have to be a wormhole of sorts because they exist from two different universes. That's how they get connected. Now will yiou stop spouting bullshit and actually prove anything you claim?

    So what about millions of ships, CIS plus republic over 10 years make 750,000,000 Ships ( light crusier, attack gunships included ,attack gunships are not LAAT/i) Remember it took 10 YEARS to built the republic and CIS navy not 10 decades like borg navy.
    Back up that number with evidence. And furthermore, it was never stated that the Borg took even ten years to build that fleet up.

    Where do you get your claims from?



    Star Wars have battlestations too, they can bring in the Death Star ( CIS designed the Death Star so i am not involving the Empire ) and build superlaser on other battlestations, it is possible because CIS and Republic is allied in the debate.
    Ah, then so would the Dominion, the Federation, the Klingons, the Romulans, the Borg, Species 8472, the Cardassians, and the Breen...and that's just off the top of my head.

  15. #9375
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    And when is a hand-pistol more effective than a Gigaton-level Turbolaser? The Borg couldn't adapt to 8472 because their weapons used mainly brute force, and that is what TLs use.
    8472's firepower is several orders higher than what even ICS claims. Nine of those ships literally linked up to form a planet buster. The Borg cubes could take 2-3 shots from each of them before being overwhelmed.

    Do the math.
    And Blasters blow chunks of off walls. They seem pretty equal.
    Big enough to *walk* through?

  16. #9376
    Registered Member Cody's Avatar
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    The evidence does not support that conclusion. At most, ISDs have about 1 megaton for heavy turbolasers. The Borg on the other hand, can easily absorb the output of a starships warp engines, and MT level weapons without a problem.
    No, no, no. 1 MEGATON? No, no, no. Mith might have gone crazy while typing this. Even if you don't consider the ICS canon, it is, as it is movie-level canon because Lucas approved it. 200 Gigaton firepower still stands.

    Ah, then so would the Dominion, the Federation, the Klingons, the Romulans, the Borg, Species 8472, the Cardassians, and the Breen...and that's just off the top of my head.
    That's for your debates with Skywalker. For mine, only canon alliances stand. Say goodbye, Federation.

  17. #9377
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    I know 8472's weakness: They are gutless. Kill a half-dozen off them and they retreat. Like in Scorpion.
    Um, no.

    At that point, Seven of Nine had regained connection to the Borg collective, and would have transmitted all of the data on the nanoprobes that would allow the Borg to one shot every bioship.

    Look at the bioship; they're small, but they only have one weapon mounted in the front, and it takes longer to charge than other weapons. The Borg however, while much larger, have weapon emplacements all around their ships, including energy beams, and torpedos. To make matters worse, 8472's weapon was a line weapon; meaning it could only directed at one target at a time. torpedos however, have an area effect when they explode. This means, that one well placed torpedo could take out ten. Add thist to the fact that Borg ships have at least eight torpedo launchers, and 8472 is now severally outgunned, not to mention at least ten or so lasers. Fighting the borg wouldn't have been bravery, it would have been stupidity. You'd basicly be fighting an enemy that has you outnumbered, outgunned, and has a higher suvivability rate than your ships.

  18. #9378
    Registered Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellblade8 View Post
    8472's firepower is several orders higher than what even ICS claims. Nine of those ships literally linked up to form a planet buster. The Borg cubes could take 2-3 shots from each of them before being overwhelmed.

    Do the math.
    No, it was eight normal ships linking with a special one. Proof of the several orders higher?

    Big enough to *walk* through?
    Most. Anything on par or higher than Leia's sporting blaster in Episode IV can roughly blow big chunks of wall off.

  19. #9379
    Registered Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellblade8 View Post
    Um, no.

    At that point, Seven of Nine had regained connection to the Borg collective, and would have transmitted all of the data on the nanoprobes that would allow the Borg to one shot every bioship.

    Look at the bioship; they're small, but they only have one weapon mounted in the front, and it takes longer to charge than other weapons. The Borg however, while much larger, have weapon emplacements all around their ships, including energy beams, and torpedos. To make matters worse, 8472's weapon was a line weapon; meaning it could only directed at one target at a time. torpedos however, have an area effect when they explode. This means, that one well placed torpedo could take out ten. Add thist to the fact that Borg ships have at least eight torpedo launchers, and 8472 is now severally outgunned, not to mention at least ten or so lasers. Fighting the borg wouldn't have been bravery, it would have been stupidity. You'd basicly be fighting an enemy that has you outnumbered, outgunned, and has a higher suvivability rate than your ships.
    No, I was saying that if you kill a half-dozen 8472, they would retreat, like they did in Scorpion.

  20. #9380
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    No, no, no. 1 MEGATON? No, no, no. Mith might have gone crazy while typing this. Even if you don't consider the ICS canon, it is, as it is movie-level canon because Lucas approved it. 200 Gigaton firepower still stands.
    I have provided evidence of George Lucas denouncing EU and his Star Wars taking place in the same universe, you will provide counter evidence now, or you will be reported to a mod.

    I have gone over this with you several times, I am sick of having to do so. Provide evidence to back up your claims, or they will pushed aside.

    That's for your debates with Skywalker. For mine, only canon alliances stand. Say goodbye, Federation.
    So?

    The Federation, the Klingons, and the Romulans are all allies.

    That's more than enough.

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