Star Wars vs Star Trek

[Arquibus]

Hey guys, not that I'm complaining about the disarray, but it would help you if you could stop the infighting...but, unless one of you fizzles down on your resolution, doubtful, it won't happen. Oh well.
In the meantime, I will now try to cover the rest of the Wars infantry weapons as well as a couple siege weapons. However, by no means am I sure that I will have covered everything. Okay, here goes.

Ion Guns-These are antidroid and anticybernetics weapons. They disrupt actuator p0athways which causes the droid to shut down, or they can fry the actuator circuitry, doing massive damage. They work against anything with actuators or AI mechanisms. These are not the same as the previously mentioned Ion Cannon, or the ship mounted systems, which affect all types of electronic systems. There are several common types.
Homemade Ion Pistol_A pistol sized and powered ion gun made of scrap parts, but still quite effective (this was used by Jawas against R2).
Felebreck Electrical Defense Systems Droid Disabler_Very powerful antidroid pistols generally meant to destroy, not stun.
Merr-Sonn DEMP Ion Pistol_The DEMP weapons (Destructive ElectroMagnetic Pulse) were designed after the utilization of the Trade Federation's droid army. This is the most common commercial ion pistol.
Merr-Sonn DEMP Ion Carbine_This is an ionization rifle generally kept in planetary armories of heavy industrial worlds in case of droid uprising.
Disruptors-Disruptors use a series of nonharmonic vibrations to excite molecules of the target, causing them to come apart, leaving a pile of smoking ash.
Tenloss DX-2_This is the most "common" (but rare in the civilized galaxy because it is illegal) disruptor pistol and is created by the Tenloss Crime Syndicate in an unknown location.
Tenloss DXR-6_This is a disruptor rifle made to incorporate even more power into only a slightly larger weapon which also has greater range.
Merr-Sonn Model MSD-32_This is a disruptor pistol that has all the power of the rifle and greater range than the Tenloss pistol by using a different array. These weapons were so deadly that the information of their creation was deleted from company records, the designers were sent to the spice mines of Kessel, the management were killed, and the accounted for inventory was destroyed. Even so, a decent amount are floating through the galaxy.
Sluthrowers-These are various kinetic energy projectile weapons. They are similar to real life guns.
Czerka Adjudicator_This is a slugthower hold-out weapon, designed for concealment. It is similar in some respects to a derringer.
Czerka Adventurer_This is a slugthrower sniper rifle with extended range and greater power than a normal rifle.
Field Sports Air Pistol_This slugthower pistol uses compressed air from its built in compressor to fire its ammo. It has less range than a normal pistol, but is just as powerful.
Kelvarek Consolidated Arms Dissuader KD-30_This is a specialized slugthrower that fires acidic shots which bore through armor.
Driolanis Defense Systems Blaster Buster_This pistol can be used as a normal slugthrower, but can also fire special ammunition that homes on energy weapons and destroys them.
Driolanis Defense Systems Striker_This is the standard slugthrower throughout the galaxy in terms of power and range.
Morellian Weapons Conglomerate Enforcer_This is a heavy slugthrower pistol of high caliber, kind of a SW equvalent of a Desert Eagle.
Yctor Arms Black Powder Pistol_This is a collector's item mostly, a replica of an era so far bygone that most planets don't even have regulations for them.
Dresselian Projectile Rifle_This weapon was designed by the low-tech Dresselians as an assault rifle and was successfully used to remove the Imperial presence on their world.
Besides normal projectile ammo, high explosive, incendiary, and mercy ammo is available for any normal slugthrower.
Prax Arms Protector PRP-502_This is a tiny, easily broken down/reassembled dart gun which is easily hidden from any security measures.
Prax Arms Stealth-2VX_An even smaller weapon, this is the dart version of the "Happy Surprise" blaster, and is just slightly less powerful than the previous.
Special nerve toxins, like Malkite Themfar and Fex-M3, and knockout drugs like Symoxin can be loaded into hollow tip darts. Also, tracer darts that cause no pain and have very long range transmissions are produced.
Golan Arms FC11_This is a heavy shoulder mounted flechette launcher with four barrels that fires either large burst anti-personnel canisters or small burst anti-vehicle canisters that are quite significantly powerful.
Malaxan Firepower Incorporated FWG-5_This is a flechette pistol that fires single target fleshette bursts that have kinetic power similar to that of a blaster rifle.
Salus DF-D1_This flechette launcher is about half the size of the FC11 and is almost as powerful as the anti-vehicle canister FC11.
Drolan Plasteel Repeating Crossbow_This is a repeating crossbow as produced my a modern company. It has a high rate of fire and decent range.
Frohard's Galactic Firearms Magna Caster-100_This is a magnetic field generator weapon meant to mimic the bowcaster, and has similar power to a blaster rifle, without the flash or sound.
Drolan Plasteel QuickShot Wrist-Caster_This is a wrist-mounted crossbow that fires dart-sized quarrels.
Golan Arms Vac Attack Mk-127_This special wrist weapon fires a trio of 3 cm spinning blades that slices through any non-armored opponent with ease.
Prax Arms LG-5 Laser Gauntlet_These gauntlets are equipped with a small laser projector (an actual laser) that fires from the first finger.
Kelvarek Consolidated Arms MM9 Rocket System_This is a wrist rocket launcher with many varied payloads. These include explosive antipersonnel rockets, high explosive antivehicle rockets, Hollow Tip rockets which can be loaded with nerve toxin, stun gas, or other loads, DEMP antidroid rockets, lumablast optics rockets (which blind opponents), and dumb shots which are projectiles with propellant.
Czerka CZ Wrist-Mounted Flame Projector_This is a wrist flamethrower, like the one Jango Fett used against Mace Windu, though Jango's was specially mounted inside his MM9.
Merr-Sonn Model C-22_This is a flame carbine often used by the CSA for extreme riot control with average range for a flamethrower.
Merr-Sonn Model CR-24_This is a full flame rifle with even more power than the considerable C-22, and it is also common in CSA armories.
Merr-Sonn Model CR-28_This is a heavy flame cannon that is carried into battle like an E-Web and has considerable range for a flamethrower.
Pacnorval Defense Systems, Limited Sd-77_This is a sonic pistol designed as an alternative to blasters for security forces.
Pacnorval Defense Systems, Limited Sg-82_This is a rifle designed to be the heavy equvalent to the above pistol.
Pacnorval Defense Systems, Limited Sil-50_This is a pistol designed for crowd control, as it uses sonics to daze its targets.
Dashade Sonic Blaster_This Dashade created weapon is designed for their mercenaries as a stun weapon, a moderate power pistol, or a very powerful and destructive weapon, depending on its power setting.
Rheshalva Interstellar Armaments Rodian Repulsor Throwing-Razor_This is a throwing blade with a built in repulsor that extends the range and homes in on the wielder after it is thrown and returns blunt end first.
Squib Tensor Rifle_This weapon uses waves of tractor beams to cause cell disruption, meaning prolonged use against the same target (assuming the target survives the initial shots) increases the power of the weapon.
Verpine Shatter Gun_This is an extremely powerful rail gun pistol that fires silently. It is a religious piece to the Verpine, but they let others use it.
B'hedda_This is a Dug weapon that is used to throw bangcaps which explode on contact. It also has a blade that can be used in melee.
Tibrin Kish'nol Coral Scepter_This weapon fires coral pellets propelled by a high powered water jet. The pellets are coated with an abrasive chemical.
Kerestian Darkstick_This weapon is thrown like a boomerang. When a button on the handle is pressed, a black energy blade is revealed which, like a lightsaber, cuts through anything.
Gruush_This is a weapon used by the primitive Sauvax as a fishing spear. Instead of a simple head, it has a straight barbed point, and a curved hook on the other side. It is well-balanced for throwing.
Klirun_This is a large bow favored by the Tunroth hunters of Jiroch-Reslia.
Discblade_This is a well-balanced throwing blade of circular construction that is a religious weapon of the Zeison Sha force adepts.
Zenji Needle_This is a lacquered needle roughly the length of a human hand which can be hurled at incredible speed, and it is often disguised as a hair decoration.
I was going to cover melee weapons as well, but I'm out of time. So, bye.

[Arquibus]

Oh, and a lot of Star Wars vehicles had sheilds, just not those on the movies. This was because most of the vehicles we saw were those of the Empire or the massive armies of the Confederacy or the Republic. These military force often opted for numbers and therefore omitted shielding in favor of simpler armor and cost-effectiveness. The rebels and subsequently the New Republic had heavy shielding on many of their vehicles.

[mars13]

i wonder if they could just beam the entire vehicle and shield and all? because that would sure screw with those rebels and their massive army of ninja jedi ewok sith troopers.

[kv1at3485]

The ST transporter is something of a deus ex machina. Anything that isn't within some form of transporter-nullifying field/material can be instantly KO'ed.

If the SW vehicles are shielded, then it is safe to assume that 'transporting them to oblivion' is not going to work. The TR-116 won't work on those either.

Most of the average SW grunts will be vulnerable to transporters at the beginning of the conflict, but one might expect them to start deploying transporter inhibitors as fast as they can. At which point the TR-116's advantages evaporate.

Don't get me wrong, the TR-116 can handle most grunts, even Stormtroopers (especially in the hands of a sniper.) But once the transporter is no longer an option, the weapon doesn't bring much to the battlefield.

Then you have to account for the bigger battle going on on the strategic scale, which means that any ST ground victory is not likely to matter at all.

[mars13]

even if all sw vehicles had shields,that doesnt take the transporter out of it. there are ways to beam throu shields,but you must have the shileds frequency to do it. so thats where changling spies come in,they get us all the intel we need .

also,transporters would still be used to move troops and equipment for st. so lets say there is an ambush of a st incampment,well the entire thing can be beamed 500 miles away in 2 seconds to prevent any loses from a surprise attack.it would ensure that all battles would be fought on st terms.also,there is the matter of the borg and trans-dimensional transporters.
both can be used against a shielded enemy.

especialy the trans-dimensinal-transporter,it will only work a few times per soldier,but a few modifications to the t-116 and now it is a dimensional-sniper rifle,able to penetrate shields.

st has an uncanny ability to figure out weakness/strengths,and exploite them.

also, dimensional-transporters work on ship shields as well, they could modify photon torps and just beam them directly to sw ships
reactor rooms and take out entire fleets in minutes.

st has technology sw has never even seen or had concepts of before. dont count them out in space battles either.

between transporters,dimensional transporters, phase cloak, and a few other choice technologys, sw will most certainly have a hard time assuming victory,if at all.

once sw shields are out of the equation[and that wont take long],they are extremly voulnerable to espianoge,sabatoge, and destruction from transporters.

also,there are genetic super soldiers who cannot be detected by sensors. so even if one was beemed over to an imeperial ship,it will be near impossible to find them.

dont count st out just because sw ships are bigger on average,there size will be a hinderance as soon as they realize its full of changlings and super soldiers,or just explosives.not to mention storm troopers are not the brightest star in the galaxy when it comes to disguises. only jedi and sith,and other force users will be able to find st soldiers on ships. and there is nothing they can do about a photon just showing up in a reactor room.without transporters they would have to carry the photon out of the ship to an airlock BEFORE it explodes and kills them.good luck.

sw has its hands VERY full.

[kv1at3485]

even if all sw vehicles had shields,that doesnt take the transporter out of it. there are ways to beam throu shields,but you must have the shileds frequency to do it. so thats where changling spies come in,they get us all the intel we need .

Unwise to assume SW shields work as ST shields do. There probably is a wqay to beam through even SW shields, but one should not assume (either) that the race between the offence and defence will be simply one way.

Using the excuse that "st has an uncanny ability to figure out weakness/strengths,and exploite" them doesn't cut it since you can be sure it will see-saw both ways.

also,transporters would still be used to move troops and equipment for st. so lets say there is an ambush of a st incampment,well the entire thing can be beamed 500 miles away in 2 seconds to prevent any loses from a surprise attack.

As long as the enemy isn't packing inhibitors.

trans-dimensional transporters. both can be used against a shielded enemy.

Are we talking about the ones used to get to the Mirror Universe? Those are not strictly shield piercing.

If you're talking about the temporal ones... Well, once you get into the matter of time travel, there's nothing left to debate.

especialy the trans-dimensinal-transporter,it will only work a few times per soldier,but a few modifications to the t-116 and now it is a dimensional-sniper rifle,able to penetrate shields.

also, dimensional-transporters work on ship shields as well, they could modify photon torps and just beam them directly to sw ships
reactor rooms and take out entire fleets in minutes.

Again, I'm going to have to ask for a clarification on what you mean by 'dimensional transporter.'

between transporters,dimensional transporters, phase cloak, and a few other choice technologys, sw will most certainly have a hard time assuming victory,if at all.

The only thing new here is the phase cloak, but that is not a means of negating shields. I can't think of one instance where a phase cloaked object has passed through a shield.

also,there are genetic super soldiers who cannot be detected by sensors. so even if one was beemed over to an imeperial ship,it will be near impossible to find them.

And how do you know that SW sensors won't be more sensitive? If anything, the inability to detect a person who is radiating heat is a sign of a bad sensor.

---

Let's try and not assume that one side is ultra-smart and the other side is ultra-dumb. Because one can argue quite effectively that ST technology is unreliable and insecure.

[mars13]

trans dimensional shields transport matter and energy throu a dimensional rift very similar to a regular transporter,but instead of moving throu this time/space,the transdimensional transporter,moves throu another dimensions time/space thus negating shields.

st will take very heavy loses for the first few weeks,but after that the insurgency will start to wear down sw defenses and infiltrate the entire trooper army. all sw defences will be infiltrated and the information will be brought back to resistance headquarters and used to bring down the sw galaxys invading armies with espionage and well placed counter attacks.

dimensional transporters would be devistating to sw defenses. one small bomb and enitre start destroyers explode.

[kv1at3485]

Allow me to narrow it down a bit further...

Which episode did we see transdimensional transporters? That would give me a place to start tracking down the details.

The only transporters I remember are:

a) Conventional. (Since TOS)
b) Ones used to get to the Mirror Universe. (Seen in a few DS9 episodes)
c) Temporal. (Seen in a few VOY episodes)
d) The ones used by the Voth. (VOY)
e) The ones used by the Sikarians. (VOY)

[mars13]

i forget the episode name,but it was an episode with terrorists [using the trans-dimensional -transporter to suicide bomb]agaisnt a dictaterhsip where the public was under hypersecurity becuase of the terroists.it was tng,third or fourth season i think.

[kv1at3485]

Ah, right. "The High Ground."

You know, I think you maybe right on this one. Even though the method can be detected, I can't think of a way to stop it. It would require SW shields and hull materials to somehow mess around with other dimensions, something that I cannot confirm.

Sure, the folded-space transporter is not something you want to be using on living things (not sure about Founder-type changlings), but if all you're doing is dumping explosives it should be ok.

Mind you, you wouldn't be able to beam anything away with it at will. If I recall, the transporter required the object to have some sort of transponder attached to it before it could be moved. (I think the terrorists in the episode used an armband for this purpose.) So you wouldn't be able to 'space' an enemy crew, but then again you wouldn't need to.

[mars13]

that was a really relevant episode. its funny how trek portrayed events,and no one listened.



but ,yes,the empire ships will have a very hard time with photon torpedoes popping out of thin air and blowing up entire fleets . a few jedi ships would get throu,thou,they could probably anticipate where the transport would take place and pilot the ship using the force around it.



also,what about a borg-dominion aliance?it could happen if they were both equaly threatened.
its kind of a scary thought, i dont see how anyone could stop them.

a species that has infinite form and infinite numbers,gets assimilated by nanotech cyborgs bent on assimilation,both were hive minds[i think] they would be a self replicating,extremely adaptive terror.they could repel energy attacks,take any form they want,they could ooze from the ground and assimilate entire regiments in seconds. one beamed onto a ship and the entire crew would assimilate each other after the first one got it. entire star destroyers would be assmiliated in minutes,then they would transform the ships into living borg ships and go hunting,using assmilated sw tech they would quickly destroy all of both galaxies,the remaining empire and the few redshirts/green skin girls left would form a resistance,but resistance is futile.

fear the borgminion.

[Arquibus]

"Resistance is futile" is only bad propaganda. As for the transporters, there are a couple issues that I do not know exactly how to proceed with due to the fact that they are not something which I have the information necessary to form a counter argument. How exactly does a transporter function? How does it select a target? What is the range of "transporting"? What is its energy source? How does an inhibitor work? There are several other questions I have, but I'll save them to hold back a bit. In the meantime, a ground battle should never be counted out, for two main reasons. One, if conquering is truly the purpose, the terran aspects must be taken just as the sectors must be taken. Second, manufacturing bases are found on planets, so an effective ground battle can render an enemy's forces unarmed. Oh, and another thing, someone yet again mentioned shapeshifting spies and genetic supersoldiers. How long have these two things lasted, I wonder. I ask because of two reasons. Shapeshifters have existed in SW for tens of thousands of years, and several races in SW are absolute geniuses in various fields of genetics, and its mechanical counterpart, cybernetics. For instance, the Arkanians were an early-developed race of near humans with incredible minds for both. They committed several galactic "atrocities" to further their research, dabbling with other sentients purely for research. They took a group of Xexto from their homeworld and transplanted them to another, where they could experiment upon their genetics. After awhile, they canceled their experiments and left the colonists there. After several centuries, they emerged as an entirely different race, the Quermians. The difference can be seen between these two races in Ep. One. between the Quermian Jedi Councilor Yarael Poof and the Xexto Podracer Gasgano. Nearer to home, the Arkanians seized all of the primitive natives of the moon of their homeworld, the Yakans (of similar status to Neanderthals) and used cybernetic implants to change them into supergeniuses with incredible working knowledge of everything. Now, this implantation is basically part of the race, as Yakan parents always have the cybernetic brain enhancement placed into their children. It was this second experiment that caused civil on the Arkanian homeworld between the government that sponsored the actions and the scientists that opposed it. This civil war led to two armies of genetically altered cyborg soldiers with enhanced strength, agility, intelligence, fortitude, and senses. Several of these cyborgs survived the terrible war and went on to serve in other martial capacities throughout the galaxy. One of these, Gorm the Dissolver, is a bounty hunter that is seemingly immortal, as he has been killed several times by opposing bounty hunters yet he always turns up alive. It was at one of these times when he picked up his new arm, which had been vaporized. The point of all this crap is that the technologies of trek are not unabated. There are other things I could compare, but that will be later.

[Prince_James]

Gah. I leave for a few days and billions of posts are made. Jesus. Since I can't hope to respond to them all, I shall respond to those made directly to me, and those which are interesting.

kv1at3485:

On the scale of a star system, yes. Travel time will be on the order of deci-seconds.

Let's say that in battle, a Star Trek ship is going at Warp 9 (pretty damn high for battles...) and, according to Wikipedia, this is about 1,516.4 times C. Let's also take our solar system as a basic scale of a solar system, with "Xena" being the boundary we'll use, which is roughly 97.6 AU away from the sun at its further. So here's the calculations:

1 AU = 150 million kilometres
97.6 AU = 14,640,000,000 kilometres
C = 300,000 km a second.
1.516.4 times C = 454,920,000 kilometres per second.

So a ship going at Warp 9 will take approximately...

32.18148245845423371142178844632 seconds.

So your notion of "deciseconds" is a bit of an exaggeration, at least at warp 9.

Just to put this into perspective, also, let's see how quick the Millennium Falcon could make this trip.

.5 Hyperdrive engine = 50,000,000 times C.
50 mil times C = 15,000,000,000,000 KM per second.
Xena to Sun: 0.000976 seconds.

Microhyperspace jumps might then allow for the Star Wars fleets to engage a warp-speed enemy.

Cruise speed is at least a few hundred c. Warp 9.9 (attainable for short periods of time, and likely to be used during the terminal run) is stated as being 21500 c (ST:VOY "The 37").

Even so, we see the capacity for interception due to the -massively- more speedy hyperdrive is definitely an issue. There is also the consideration, as noted, that the Vong use real-space travel.

I have been staying away from the Force for SW, just as I have been staying away from time travel for ST. The ultra-unconventional comes out in favour for ST.

Considering ST:TOS posits alternate realities for timetravel, this would only limitedly deal with what is happening in anyone timeline. Moreover, Jedi and Sith are extremely integral to SW, whilst time travel is far less a deal in ST, specifically as if it were really viable, why doesn't ST constantly use time-travel tactics? "The Dominion just took over Betazed!" "We'll just go back in time a week and attack the Dominion Fleet!"

But can the Yuuzhan Vong engage at FTL speeds? You might theoretically have a hyperspace-capable ship follow along in the wake of a warp ship, but if it can't engage, it doesn't mean a thing.

I believe it can, yes. They can also produce artificial gravity wells powerful enough to lurch moons out of orbit and pelt planets with them, so it is feasible they could mess up a ship in warp.

Torpedoes cannot make a STL-to-FTL transition by themselves. If launched at STL, they will never break the c barrier. However, if launched at FTL speeds, a torpedo can 'coast' independently at FTL speeds as long as it has fuel to power its 'warp sustainer.'

My thanks for the clarification. Do you recall an instance where this is used in the series or movies? The only warpspeed attacks I can think is when that Borg cube engaged The Enterprise when Q sent the Enterprise tens of thousands of lightyears away.

Again, assuming that targeting is accurate enough, which I have serious doubts on. Note that the Galaxy Gun was designed for use on relatively stationary targets which were unable to evade and moving at much-less-than lightspeed.

This is surely a valid point. The galaxy gun would most likely have to be MUCH closer and somehow - probably through hyperspace communication - get up to date information about the location of the ships.

Oh! Here's another consideration: Hyperspace a Sun Crusher through the offending ships. The Suncrusher's quantum-phase armour was capable of letting it litterally crash -through- a Star Destroyer with absolutely _no_ damage, as well as sustain weeks within the core of a massive gas giant (Yavin 4), and even within a sun, would not have been destroyed. In fact, the only way that it -was-, was that it was caught in the gravity well of one of the Maw's black holes. Presumably, at hyperspace - which it was capable of engaging - it might well be able to litterally smash right THROUGH a real-space ship. Its armour was considered, basically, indestructible.

Which doesn't change anything. A Galaxy Gun's standard round can kill a starship already. The ordnance fired doesn't really matter. It's the targeting that counts.

Yes, but I was referencing its capacity to essentially deal with ST's galaxy from tens of thousands of lightyears away.

I know that. I was trying to demonstrate that with such modifications, the time it took for a ST ship to travel across the SW galaxy could very well be measured within a single century, which would significantly cut down on the time SW has to react.

Yes, but even so, a single century is a tremendous amount of reaction time, specifically for the SW's universe -massive- industrial and science capacities. Again, consider the fact that the Death Star II, just a few years after the Death STar I, was capable of recharging in a matter of -minutes- when it took -a day- for the Death Star I.

It should also be noted that the ST case is significant because (by the very nature of the operation) the Enterprise could not have been expected to undergo any major refueling along the way, aside from from what it could get via its Bussard ramscoops.

This is true. Specifically since we do not know what type of fuel hyperdrives use, we cannot determine their maximum range, or whether there is a capacity for larger ships to synthesize their own fuel,.

Kron:

First of, quantum resonance torpedos don't destroy stars by simply going of with a big bag; they destroy stars by exploiting the quantum dynamics within a star to unstabilise it. Hence they cannot destroy big planet-eating monsters.

The quantum-resonance torpedos were able to eat massive holes in the Death Star Prototype and wasn't that planet eating monster highly energetic?

Second, if phasers destroy the sub-atomic bonds of its target, there would be an explosion big enough to rival a nuclear explosion 10 times the target's mass. This could be pro-ST as it proves the power of ST handguns, but I really think it proves that ST weapons are woefully scientifically inconsistent and that phasers actually suck.

Got any resources for this notion of "10 times the targets mass"?

Third, since everyone is simply focussing on firepower I will point out a new concept: Organisation. I seriously think that SW can organise and concentrate their universe's forces with MUCH greater efficiency than ST can, because SW usually has 1 government ruling the galaxy at a time. I think Dune however, would be unrivalled in this field.

The navies of Dune are essentially non-existent. Infantry tactics are the only generally used things and at the time of the Scattering, Dune has no such centralized government.

Fourth, troops. Though there is a lot of proof both ways in the Ensign/Stormtrooper sub-debate, I'd say SW wins because Stormtroopers outnumber Ensigns by a million.

By a million times, you mean, yes?

Fifth, ships. Both SW and ST have very unrealisic battles where stationary ships lob shots at each other in eyeball range. But SW has perfected the concept of fighters, which I think would give them the advantage over ST.

I agree.

On the general topic of SW v. ST populations:

In the Yuuzhan Vong War, there were, according to Wikipedia:

The number of deaths over the known galaxy that resulted from the invasion was estimated at about 365 trillion sentients.

-365 trillion sentients-.

According to Wikipedia:

That would be equal to 61,000 Earth-type worlds with a population of 6 billion each.

The Federation alone has only a -few hundred Earth like planets-, and the rest of the Alpha Quadrant does not seem to be that impressive. The Federation fleet that got their ass handed to them by the Dominion had -120 ships-. There are -25,000- Star Destroyers -alone- in SW, not to mention litterally millions upon millions of other ships.

Arquibus:

-BRILLIANT- posts. Seriously. I love you. You make this thread worth reading still. Bravo, my good man, bravo.

[kv1at3485]

Considering ST:TOS posits alternate realities for timetravel, this would only limitedly deal with what is happening in anyone timeline. Moreover, Jedi and Sith are extremely integral to SW, whilst time travel is far less a deal in ST, specifically as if it were really viable, why doesn't ST constantly use time-travel tactics? "The Dominion just took over Betazed!" "We'll just go back in time a week and attack the Dominion Fleet!"

Using the UFP in the 24th century is a very limited example, since we know that the UFP does tend to soften its punches when it can. (They weren't quite faced with armageddon either.)

We do know that as early as the 29th century, temporal warfare has become a real concern and that the powers have built the infrastructure necessary to wage that type of conflict. (At least that's how I interpret that stupid 'Temporal Cold War' thing in ENT.)

I believe it can, yes. They can also produce artificial gravity wells powerful enough to lurch moons out of orbit and pelt planets with them, so it is feasible they could mess up a ship in warp.

Agreed.

My thanks for the clarification. Do you recall an instance where this is used in the series or movies? The only warpspeed attacks I can think is when that Borg cube engaged The Enterprise when Q sent the Enterprise tens of thousands of lightyears away.

Apparently there were instances of torpedoes being fired at warp in TOS's "The Ultimate Computer", "Elaan of Troyius" and VOY's "Flashback".

(I even remember an instance of the ENT Enterprise firing one of its 'photonic torpedoes' at warp, but I cannot remember the episode name.)

Sun Crusher... Presumably, at hyperspace - which it was capable of engaging - it might well be able to litterally smash right THROUGH a real-space ship.

The Sun Crusher was capable of engaging other ships in hyperspace? Been a while since I read that book too, but I seem to recall the Sun Crusher reveling in mass-destruction only when it was at sublight.

Yes, but I was referencing its capacity to essentially deal with ST's galaxy from tens of thousands of lightyears away.

Yes, but even so, a single century is a tremendous amount of reaction time, specifically for the SW's universe -massive- industrial and science capacities. Again, consider the fact that the Death Star II, just a few years after the Death STar I, was capable of recharging in a matter of -minutes- when it took -a day- for the Death Star I.

True.

---

How exactly does a transporter function?

On screen, I don't think it's ever been explained. The closest thing we get is in the TM's. Essentially, a conventional transporter moves the matter of the object to another location via some sort of confined 'beam' (hence the term 'beaming'.) I suspect this is what an inhibitor seeks to disrupt. If the matter beam (or whatever it is) gets messed up, the object doesn't arrive in one piece.

EDIT
In TNG's "Data's Day" it is mentioned that the transporter beam propagates via 'subspace carrier wave', implying the matter is routed through that domain.
/EDIT

There are other types of transporters, which forgo that method entirely which makes them much harder to disrupt. (The 'folded-space transporter' is an example of one of these nutty methods. No method of interception was postulated during the episode it was seen in.)

How does it select a target?

Using whatever sensors you have. Not having a good 'lock' on an object merely means you might only 'beam up' a part of the object. Normally this is a bad thing. But if you're objective is merely to destroy the target, accurate lock does not become to much of a concern.

What is the range of "transporting"?

Varies from type to type.

ENT's "Rajiin" states that the conventional transporter they had (22nd century) had a range of some 10000 km. One might assume that in later centuries, that increases.

In DS9's "Covenant", a fancy subspace transporter (24th century) was shown to have a range of a few lightyears, although it required the object to be 'tagged' before being transported.

In VOY's "Relativity" the temporal transporter (29th, or 30th, century) not only moved objects through time, but over quite a few light years (a few ten thousand?). We can see this because a character is transported from the Utopia Planitia Fleet Yards in Mars orbit all the way to Voyager somewhere in the Delta Quadrant.

What is its energy source?

Whatever you have on hand, really.

For example, in "Star Trek: Nemesis" the pinsized emergency transporter contained a power source sufficient to move one person a few kilometres. One might expect the battery to be drained after one use, but one might equally expect that the battery can be recharged or replaced.

[mars13]

what about borgminion troops?

the combined strength and adapatability of the two super races would be a formitable opponent. with borg regen tech and the dominions ability to endlessly spawn new troops,they could have a standing army of billions if not trillions in a few days.

and the borg can transport throu shields, and the the shapeshifters would be unstoppable on sw ships.

i think transporter tech would steadily wear down sw defences.they may have 25,000 star destroyers,but it would only take one photon torp to blow one up.and with dimensional transport,and the half a dozen other transport methods would
only continue to destroy sw ships.

also,sw doesnt have manufacturing tech like st. if a storm trooper needs a gun, they have to mine materials,refine them,and transport them across the galaxy to get to a specific regiment.

st would just replicate a phaser.

st supplies would be availible to st troops in seconds where sw supplies would take some time.
this puts them at a disadvantage in sustained battles and seiges.

also,sw doesnt have transporter disrupters,they wont even know how half their fleet blew up in 30 seconds,let alone be able to stop it.

also trek has photon granades,these could be beamed over into smaller ships reactors to ake care of fighters and mellenium falcon sized ships.

and not to mention the covert r+d that would start taking place immediatly after the first sw ship attacked and the feds got word of it.they also allready have secret reaserch bases inside astoroid belts and moons throut the alpha quad.

fed ships and their allies would be recieving plans for phase cloak weapons in days. a true threat to sw ships. after all,it took the enterprise a few hours to get it functional so they allready have the tech in a working fashion.


and dont count out borgminion intelligence gathering, after the assimilated one ship they would have all of sw technology as well as battle plans and tatics and flett locations and the like.

and you want to talk about atrocities? the borg are a living experiment of atrocities on humaniods. they have done every nanotech experiment they can think of on billions of humaniods.

and the suncrusher was stopped by one blackhole?one spacial anomly and there most powerful ship is destroyed?

the st galaxy is crammed full of temperal/spacial anomilies,microblackholes, quantom fissures,tears in time and space,these plague the st galaxy.

sw WILL have to contend with all the crazy anomilys that st has to deal with if they want victory. and i havent seen a whole lot of eveidence that shows sw is up to the challenge of of all the crazy anomlies in st.

if blackhole can destroy your best ship,then what will you do to combat the anomolies.

hell,romulons use a micro blackhole for a power source.

i think sw would assume they will just walk right over the entire galaxy in a few days, until entire fleets disapeared into anomolies,and countless godlike species examinied them,and ships started blowing up from the inside out,and future attacks by sw ships turned into traps set by borgminion troops, who had intell on all fleet movements because half the ship is really borgminion troops in disquise.

this WILL NOT be a cake walk for sw, half of both sides would be wiped out within a week. then the real battles would begin.

[Kron]

also,sw doesnt have manufacturing tech like st. if a storm trooper needs a gun, they have to mine materials,refine them,and transport them across the galaxy to get to a specific regiment.

st would just replicate a phaser.

st supplies would be availible to st troops in seconds where sw supplies would take some time.
this puts them at a disadvantage in sustained battles and seiges.

Star Trek can violate the law of conservation of matter????????????????

and the suncrusher was stopped by one blackhole?one spacial anomly and there most powerful ship is destroyed?

the st galaxy is crammed full of temperal/spacial anomilies,microblackholes, quantom fissures,tears in time and space,these plague the st galaxy.

sw WILL have to contend with all the crazy anomilys that st has to deal with if they want victory. and i havent seen a whole lot of eveidence that shows sw is up to the challenge of of all the crazy anomlies in st.

if blackhole can destroy your best ship,then what will you do to combat the anomolies.

hell,romulons use a micro blackhole for a power source.

There's a difference between a black hole and an anomaly. Isn't that obvious? I'm also pretty sure that ST ships don't stand much of a chance in a black hole.

[Fafnir665]

st would just replicate a phaser.

st supplies would be availible to st troops in seconds where sw supplies would take some time.
this puts them at a disadvantage in sustained battles and seiges

You know, I've never seen a phaser replicated, I always see them pulled out of lockers. Are you sure they can be replicated?

and the suncrusher was stopped by one blackhole?one spacial anomly and there most powerful ship is destroyed?

Ha, you're funny. The NR decided that the sun crusher was too powerful a weapon for even them to posess. Since it was indestructible they had a problem with getting rid of it. So first they threw it into a gas giant, where a dark jedi retrieved it and caused mayhem. So the dark jedi then repented and was like "fine okay whatever, i'll throw it in a black hole", and he did. Knowing that nothing comes out of a black hole, this was the final solution.

How many ST ships could fly to the center of a gas giant and come back okay? I know one episode where they start to, and get like an eigth of the way in and have to abort. (the episode where gordi keeps seeing his mom in the wreck of some fed ship they send a robot to).

[mars13]

yes phazers can be replicated, and replicaters only require base matter and energy to function. and m class planet should have enough materials to replicate a phazer. which is where any large ground battles would take place.


also,romulons USE blackholes for a power source. i dont think they worry to much about being sucked into one.

but the dozens of other energy traps and anomolys in the st galaxy WILL reak havoc on sw ships unfimiliar with the amount of crazy stuff that happens in the st galaxy.more then one sw ship WILL be destroyed by spacial/temporal anomolies.

and who knows what kind of reactions those anomolies would have when combined with hyperdrives, how many times has the enteprise screwed up space/time with just warp engines?

[Fafnir665]

Mars13, where is your Proof? Like I said, I've never seen them replicated. Have you? Episode? You cant just say 'Anything can be replicated'. If everything is so easy/quick/simple to replicate, why do they store anything? Wouldnt it save space just to replicate/deconstruct everything?

[mars13]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replicator_(Star_Trek)