View Poll Results: Which universe would win?

Voters
670. This poll is closed
  • Star Trek

    227 33.88%
  • Star Wars

    285 42.54%
  • Spaceballs

    51 7.61%
  • Farscape

    14 2.09%
  • Dune

    54 8.06%
  • Stargate

    39 5.82%

Thread: Star Wars vs Star Trek

  1. #8801
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Open Circle and Death Squaron is a unit in the empire and republic navy

  2. #8802
    Registered Senior Member antaran_1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkywalkerJedi View Post
    Starfleet is composed of alot of systems in the federation, but open circle and death squdron are not they are from a single navy
    well not really. in ST allmost all systems have their own system defence ships, but these usualy operate independantly from Starfleet command. Star Fleet is the Deep Space military (dubed Exploratory)wing of the Federation. during peace times their ships usualy operate alone, but during war they form task forces and fleets. i am not sure, but starfleet's fleet division might be sector based.

  3. #8803
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Open Circle fleet is assigned to coruscant, and numerous other important worlds, and leave the unimprotant ones to other fleets, but if the CIS is planning a big attack Open Circle is gonna be involved, so it is a dependent, and invuluable fleet of the republic navy.as to death squadron it is a mighty armda commanded by Vader to hunt down the main reble fleet and the reble base

  4. #8804
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    the republic is a country, federation is not

  5. #8805
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    the only exportation organization is outbound flight because they dont need a fleet they use beacons, telescopes and probes

  6. #8806
    アスラン・ザラ ( Athrun "Alex" Zala ) SkywalkerJedi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flectarn View Post


    yes, very impresive. couldn't find a clear picture of damage to greedo, but the what the blasters did to that wall is incredable
    That only mean that the wall is durasteel thats painted yellow. IF you put a Star Trek wall there it would of burned a hole. the reason it is durasteel because there has been alot of blaster fights at the place. Star Wars have better walls

  7. #8807
    Very Special Senior Member USS Athens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkywalkerJedi View Post
    Some automated systems! well you are forgetting computers can malfunction, Force can't!
    Highly unlikely, ST computers malfunction considerably less then you'd want them to. Trusting the Force to do everything for you is an accident waiting to happen.

    they can just jam the computer, blast the shuttle or ship, or use the Force to decive it! Vader can't do it beacuse his suit limited his force abilities, read book of anger, palpatine use a hyperspace wormhole to destory a fleet!
    Non-Canon/Radical Speculation

    The EU is canon it is approved by lucasfilm!
    It just means that the EU has permission to use the title, characters, and other things of SW.

    it is not the gauntlet protected hand it is called Force absorbe!
    What are you trying to say? Vader deflected it, he didn't absorb it.

    ...wide beam phaser can't kill...
    Yes it can

    Quote Originally Posted by G2k View Post
    1. "Frame of Mind"[TNG6] . . . Riker sets his phaser to maximum (setting 16), on a wide field, and comments that it should destroy half the building. (Yes, this was while Riker was mind-tripping, but Troi makes it clear that his mind was latching on to real-life elements to keep him sane during the neuro-somatic procedure. In short, there is no reason to assume that Riker's understanding of phasers was affected.)

    2. "The Enemy Within"[TOS1] . . . Sulu's heating of the rocks to glowing with multiple short triple-beam bursts would, based on the heating effect, be more than sufficient to kill someone.

    3. "Homefront"[DS9-4] . . . phasers on a widebeam setting could have their power setting altered. (This is seen with the small wall-mount units in tests with Odo, which were in the low threes. The final setting chosen was 3.5.)

    3a. "The Vengeance Factor"[TNG3] . . . setting 7 is known to be able to produce temperatures in excess of 2,300 degrees. Even if we assume that, for some odd reason, Data suddenly decided to use Fahrenheit instead of Celsius, that would be sufficient to melt most rock.

    4. "Cathexis"[VOY1] . . . Later in the episode, after the widebeam stun blast I show a picture of above, Tuvok (inhabited by some alien mind during the entire episode) threatens to fire on the bridge crew once again, this time saying: "this phaser is on wide-beam dispersal and set to kill". No one contradicted him, and the alien clearly knew everything Tuvok knew, from ship operations to the nerve pinch.
    Reply?

    and Force users can resist stun or they simply use the force to deflect it using Force protection or Force Armor.
    Proof?

    check the database you will find that Force users can use telekenises to slam objects big as a starship.
    Then if Vader couldn't do it, why didn't Sidious do it at the battle of RotJ?

    you are fogetting that Star Trek ships are way smaller than Star Wars ships.
    I believe yoda said that an object's size means nothing to the force.

    The biggest is USS Enterprise, but a Clone Wars Ventor-class star destoryer is 1.5 Km long Enterprise is 687 Meters long, and Star Wars's biggest ship is 20 Km long!
    Federation ships have shown on multiple occations that size matters not.

  8. #8808
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    the federation alone has nothing on the star wars universe. The only faction i see competeing with the empire in star trek is the borg and they can do it. the borg is just as vast as the empire and its cubes are vastly superior to any ISD. Several borg cubes and there are literally tens of thousands of them all over the place can easily wipe out a super star destroyer. Nothin to my knowledge the borg has can out do a death star station though, i mean in pure fire power all together.

    the force is not a factor anymore=) all ya need to do is obtain one of the many diffrent animals on some of the planets in the star wars galaxy that can counter act the force.

    I think star wars fans get to excited bout the size of ships. Large capital ships are good for one thing, hitting hard and they do nothing against bombers that what frigets , corvetts and other fighters are for.

    To give you a idea how how tough a single Borg cube is go to Merzo.net. Compare a ISD to a single borg cube. And then comnpare it to a Super start destroyer. It cost the empire alot of time money and resources to create the superstar destroyers and some of the larger capital ships. Borg cubes are a dime a dozen and are roughly the equivelent to 2-3 imperial star destroyers. As far as technology goes. Hands down the borg is constantly adding to their knowledge of the many thousands of races they have encountered. In a head on battle if you do not use any type of virus and kill the collective in that way the borg is just going to out last the empire.


    Dont care if the empire has ships that reach 100 miles in length. It means nothing. the borg is to vast and that alone is enough to match up to the empire. I think the borg is the toughest oponent in the star trek universe for the empire.

    And if you bring up the force or the sith or the jedi's, then you must also bring up the "Q" in the star trek universe, and no sane die hard star wars fan wants to compare the jedi or sith to the "Q" which are the equivelent to gods in the star trek universe. the "Q" would wipe the floor with the entire star wars universe and star trek universe alone with every jedi,sith lord, and the borg empire and all the jedi masters at the same time. The "Q" are on a whole new level and not really worth compareing to the rest casue it in reality is not a contest.



    I think the star wars universe is more popular, where the star trek universe may not be. But all in all both have their strong points, but i still think the edge goes to the star trek universe. This is not including the "Q"

  9. #8809
    Minister of Technology
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    Quote Originally Posted by antaran_1979 View Post
    well not really. in ST allmost all systems have their own system defence ships, but these usualy operate independantly from Starfleet command. Star Fleet is the Deep Space military (dubed Exploratory)wing of the Federation. during peace times their ships usualy operate alone, but during war they form task forces and fleets. i am not sure, but starfleet's fleet division might be sector based.
    Actually, in ST there are very limited Planetary defenses. Most systems have a few hundred fighters, some converted freighters and possibly something akin to a stripped down Defiant class war crusier. Larger worlds have improved defenses and in at least one case massive mine fields. However these defenses are aimed more for taking on hostile spaceborne organisms rather than a hostile fleet. System defense in ST depends on deep space sensor arrays that make even the best Romulan cloaks pointless as Strategic devices. The advanced warnings provided by these arrays give just enough time to gather together a strike force or fleet and provide a timely intercept.

    Against an attacking SW fleet these defenses would be beyond useless. The deep space sensors would be unable to detect the ships in hyperspace. When the fleet breaks out they would release fighters and escorts and begin targeting enemy bases. With superiority of numbers and technology a SW fleet would crush any culture in the Milky Way.

  10. #8810
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    Quote Originally Posted by zeel View Post
    the federation alone has nothing on the star wars universe. The only faction i see competeing with the empire in star trek is the borg and they can do it. the borg is just as vast as the empire and its cubes are vastly superior to any ISD. Several borg cubes and there are literally tens of thousands of them all over the place can easily wipe out a super star destroyer. Nothin to my knowledge the borg has can out do a death star station though, i mean in pure fire power all together.
    Actually the Borg Collective is only one trillion sentients at most and covers about 25% of the milky way. The Empire at it's height had hundreds of trillions of sentients and covered 75% of a galaxy that was one and a half times the size of the Milky Way.

    The Borg have weapons ranging in the multi megatons and obtain their superiority through assimiliation of their targets. However even a 30 year jump in technology is enough to put them at an extreme disadvantage. The first Borg cube to meet the enterprise was almost disinegrated by a a barrage of Phaser strikes. It's only method of assualt was to overload the shields of the offending craft and beam aboard drones, after using lasers to cut a section of the hull for study. their vessels are unbelievably fragile without their shielding and even that cannot keep them safe against a dozen Federation vessels. Now imagine a cube facing an enemy that is carrying 100 cannons that each put out as much power as a Federation Starship produces. How long would it take to overload the shields of a vessel that can repell dozens of 12.5 gigaton blasts before starting to buckle. How are they going to beam Drones in when there is a second set of shielding running through the hull.

    Chances of a Borg Cube versus Imperial II Star Destroyer: 1 in 10,000 of there being a trace of the Cube left.


    the force is not a factor anymore=) all ya need to do is obtain one of the many diffrent animals on some of the planets in the star wars galaxy that can counter act the force.
    Only one animal counteracts the force completely, and it is on exactly one planet and cannot be supported except by ver specific means. Even then some force users can ignore these limitations.

    I think star wars fans get to excited bout the size of ships. Large capital ships are good for one thing, hitting hard and they do nothing against bombers that what frigets , corvetts and other fighters are for.
    Actually, a Star Destroyer is capable of defending itself quite capably against a bomber squadron. Whithout battleship support it is considered suicide to fight squadrons against any model Star Destroyer. Without complete plans, nothing short of several Sovereign class Star Destroyers can handle even the first Death Star.

    Plus honestly 90% of the largest Star Wars vessels carry at least a squadron of fighters.


    To give you a idea how how tough a single Borg cube is go to Merzo.net. Compare a ISD to a single borg cube. And then comnpare it to a Super start destroyer. It cost the empire alot of time money and resources to create the superstar destroyers and some of the larger capital ships. Borg cubes are a dime a dozen and are roughly the equivelent to 2-3 imperial star destroyers. As far as technology goes. Hands down the borg is constantly adding to their knowledge of the many thousands of races they have encountered. In a head on battle if you do not use any type of virus and kill the collective in that way the borg is just going to out last the empire.
    The first Super Star Destroyer and First Death Star took a long time and many resources to build, however subsequent ones have been much easier. The second Death Star was started several days after Luke fought vader on Bespin. Six months later it was 80% complete and battle ready. And this was keeping the construction hush-hush and completely secret until Palpatine wanted it revealed. Several other Super Star Destroyers were built each faster and easier than the last.

    ISD comprise one part of the Imperial fleet there are 10,000 of them ISDII are another part and are a little behind at 4000-6000. VSD and VSDII are tugging along at 15,000 each, Nebulan Frigates number in the hundreds of thousands, Coriellon Corvettes in the millions. Hell, the planet of Mon Cal produce several hundred ships each the match of a Star Destroyer in just a few months.

    As for toughness, Borg cubes are fragile and much like a box constructed of mesh screen. SW ships are built to give and take a pounding.

    Dont care if the empire has ships that reach 100 miles in length. It means nothing. the borg is to vast and that alone is enough to match up to the empire. I think the borg is the toughest oponent in the star trek universe for the empire.
    Actually the Borg would the easiest opponent. No need to worry about capture. Just practice scorched earth practices. Locate Borg world, hyperspace in, destroy plent, jump out, repeat as neccesary until Borg have no planets left. Star hunting ships. Leave nothing alive.

    It's so much harder when you want to rule over a people rather than destroy them.

    And if you bring up the force or the sith or the jedi's, then you must also bring up the "Q" in the star trek universe, and no sane die hard star wars fan wants to compare the jedi or sith to the "Q" which are the equivelent to gods in the star trek universe. the "Q" would wipe the floor with the entire star wars universe and star trek universe alone with every jedi,sith lord, and the borg empire and all the jedi masters at the same time. The "Q" are on a whole new level and not really worth compareing to the rest casue it in reality is not a contest.
    Actually Yoda, Vader, Palpatine and Luke are all so beyond a Q it is not even funny. The only things we have seen Q do is time manipulation, matter manipulation, and teleporting. The last two are like replicators and transporters. They can't even read minds like the simple beta-zeds. The four force users I mentioned can manipulate time, manipulate matter, one learned to move matter, heal, read and control minds, precognition, and feats that even Q would be very impressed by. But in al reality there is no outer limit to what a Force user can do, becuase they do not draw on themselves, but an entire universe of life. Besides the Force users are an integral part of the story line in SW and are present in 90% of the stories. Q hasn;t even appeared in 5% of Star Trek and even then he as expressed that the Q stay out of mortal affairs. they have a interest in humanity, but the Empire is human as well.

  11. #8811
    Minister of Technology
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    Quote Originally Posted by USS Enterprise-B View Post
    Highly unlikely, ST computers malfunction considerably less then you'd want them to. Trusting the Force to do everything for you is an accident waiting to happen.
    Actually, no it isn't. If you trust the Force fully, like Luke does you can move Black Holes,

    It just means that the EU has permission to use the title, characters, and other things of SW.
    Lucas, who decides what is canon, has said that the EU is part of the canon, it is just that the what he films as movie trumps anything in EU if the two disagree.

    What are you trying to say? Vader deflected it, he didn't absorb it.
    Actuallythe glove is laced with mandoloran iron and could easily have deflected standard blaster bolts on it's own. FOr whatever might have leaked through Vader could have yused the force to absorb the damage to refresh himself rather than have it be lethal. It's a common Jedi power in those Knight rank and beyond. Both Obi-wan and Anakin used it when figthing on Mustafar so as not to suffer the roasting effects of the lava.

    Yes it can
    I do want to point out that while characters have bluffed that a Phaser could be used on widebeam and on kill it has NEVER been shown. The heating element of phasers is well known, but oddly never used on a living organism, but wide angle kill has never been shown. It might be of note that by the time that Tuvok was making his threat, the crew knew he was not himself and were hoping to play him for the fool by keeping mouth shut.

    As for jedi resisting stun, they do it quite frequently. It's why they are hard to take down. Between their supreme metabolic control and ability to channel the energy into recuperative energies a stun is useless unless you catch them unaware, which is nearly impossible.

    Then if Vader couldn't do it, why didn't Sidious do it at the battle of RotJ?
    Becuase when a Darkside user uses that much Force it drains them physically. Besides he had the Death Star and was winning. Hello? brain cells are you working.


    I believe yoda said that an object's size means nothing to the force.
    Yes, but smaller is a bit easier to move.

    Federation ships have shown on multiple occations that size matters not.
    True, but they were facing enemies who were at most 4 to six years more advanced. Imagine facing someone whe developed something much faster than warp 25,000 years ago.

  12. #8812
    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    The Empire at it's height had hundreds of trillions of sentients and covered 75% of a galaxy that was one and a half times the size of the Milky Way.
    .
    except 120,000 ly (the common eu figure) is 1.2 times the size of the milky way not 1.5, and every map of the star wars galaxy i've ever seen shows the empire/republic being in half the galaxy and the rest being unexplored (well thats how i interpret unknown regions anyway), making it difficult for them to control 75% of it



    http://www.moviecritic.com.au/images...alaxy-map1.jpg - full size image

    of course from what i hear the only high cannon sources seem to indicate it's a "moderately sized galaxy" which with put it probably in the 50,000ly range, the milky way is big (or so i've read)

  13. #8813
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    Quote Originally Posted by antaran_1979 View Post
    agreed they would probably side with the Federation.
    Actually since the Federation is a communist rebublic win the time of TNG I would bet the Rebels would be more likely to to let the empire conquer them, equip them with proper technology and then try to subvert them to the Alliance cuase. After all it's hard enough to stay supplied as it is, fighting alongside an ally who is using muskets when you need Javelin Missile launchers is just depressing.

  14. #8814
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flectarn View Post
    except 120,000 ly (the common eu figure) is 1.2 times the size of the milky way not 1.5, and every map of the star wars galaxy i've ever seen shows the empire/republic being in half the galaxy and the rest being unexplored (well thats how i interpret unknown regions anyway), making it difficult for them to control 75% of it



    http://www.moviecritic.com.au/images...alaxy-map1.jpg - full size image

    of course from what i hear the only high cannon sources seem to indicate it's a "moderately sized galaxy" which with put it probably in the 50,000ly range, the milky way is big (or so i've read)
    Actually the Milky Way is 80,000 light years across and is considered medium sized. The SW galaxy is 120,000 light years across and would still be medium sized. Lucas has said quite plainly that the Empire control 75% of the galaxy, not that all of it is completely explored there are many uncharted stars and settlement inside the Empire's borders much like there are unexplored worlds in the federation borders.

  15. #8815
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flectarn View Post


    yes, very impresive. couldn't find a clear picture of damage to greedo, but the what the blasters did to that wall is incredable
    Well, perhaps you should take another look at the Mos Eisley hangar scenes where Han blows Torso sized chunks of reinforced concrete out of the wall with his hand gun.

  16. #8816
    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Actually the Milky Way is 80,000 light years across and is considered medium sized. The SW galaxy is 120,000 light years across and would still be medium sized. Lucas has said quite plainly that the Empire control 75% of the galaxy, not that all of it is completely explored there are many uncharted stars and settlement inside the Empire's borders much like there are unexplored worlds in the federation borders.
    Wiki says differently http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milky_Way

    so does NASA http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/as...s/001205a.html

  17. #8817
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    Quote Originally Posted by USS Enterprise-B View Post
    A 2 meter hole is easy, the ST has automated systems, not gunners using joysticks!
    And yet Photon torpedoes can miss a 700 meter long ship by kilometers at point balnk range.

    If he could really slam a vessel into the sun, why doesn't he do this to any rebel ship then?
    Exaggerating a bit of vader's part, though Luke could do it.

    Lucas just said it wasn't a part of HIS universe. He wasn't about to stop a bunch of Wars fans from having a little fun.
    Actually that was his first quote, then he decided against it later. He said his story of Star Wars is just the movies and the movies trump everything that conflicts directly. EU is still very much a part of canon and Lucas has even drawn on it several times and alluded to it being the answer to several things he does not show in the movies.

    Yes most of ST is not made by Gene anymore. But I believe his family made it clear that everything that happened on the TV shows and movies after his death was canon.
    Actually by Gene's quote was "It's not Star Wars until I say it is." he never went back on that actually. Though excpeted wisdom is all movies, the live actions series, except Enterprise as that flies in the face of what the history was.

    We calculated the the jedi/sith threat a long time ago. The fact of the matter is that we've seen phasers put out beams quite significantly wider than that of a lightsaber (not to mention that phasers are .98 the speed of light, and we've never seen a jedi have the ability to react to something remotely that fast), and TW, Jedi/Sith do not have absorb abilty. Vader only deflected it, says the novelization which is canon.
    Actually the blaster bolt is just as fast as the phaser. And the jedi do not react after the tigger is pulled, but rather before. As for width the average handphaser or phaser rifles beam is pencil thin.

    And Luke does have the Absorb Energy ability, quite effectively too. Walking directly on the surface of a lava lake tends to prove that. Several other Jedi have it as well. Vader might have not used it, but he displayed it on Mustafar.

  18. #8818
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flectarn View Post
    okay so 100,000 light years, sorry.

    but lets assume the galaxy is flat.

    Milky Way: 31415926535.897932384626433832795 square lightyears
    SW Galaxy: 45238934211.693022633862064719225 square lightyears

    That makes the SW Galaxy 1.44 times the size of the Milky Way

  19. #8819
    Found some more images of blasters hitting unshielded, unarmoured things... like people







    http://www.dvdactive.com/editorial/a...-part-one.html

  20. #8820
    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    okay so 100,000 light years, sorry.

    but lets assume the galaxy is flat.

    Milky Way: 31415926535.897932384626433832795 square lightyears
    SW Galaxy: 45238934211.693022633862064719225 square lightyears

    That makes the SW Galaxy 1.44 times the size of the Milky Way
    fair enough, i was just going by diameter, not area (what i assume you calculated)

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