Star Wars vs Star Trek

[halo07guy]

Ressurection through cloning, Kitt. Clone a body, transfer the brain. Thats why they had to kill Bevel Lemelisk twice.

Near unlimited because they have the resources of an entire galaxy. Replicaters need all the materials to create something. They are in no way related to natural resources, such as metal. They can't create something from nothing, as so many seem to think.

Weight is simply a side-effect of gravity. Its makes sense that if Han picked up Neutronium, it was either on a low-gravity world, or highly refined. And stop thinking ST Neutronium is the same as SW neutronium. Also, since nobody has ever picked up neutronium, how can you possibly know how much it weighs?

And dematerialize them during a battle in space? Wouldn't that make your ships too vulnarable, since IIRC, they have to drop shields to be able to use a transporter.

This is not about Empire vs Borg or Empire vs Kazon. Just empire vs Federation. the Federation doesn't have Borg or Kazon technollogy, so your argument is invalid.

Yes, Trek can move the planet through space, albeit very slowly, in terms of FTL movement.


The SW galaxy would not be dead. Our sun alone has another 5-6 billion years of life. What makes you think another galaxy would have stars that only live 3 billion years? No, stars would be middle-aged by then, and be very far off from dying. Unless, of course, you think every single star in the SW galaxy is a Red Giant.

Something I'd like you to note, is that a carrier is little more then a large floating metal airbase, with lots of empt space inside. If it has no aircraft, it is about as useful as bucket with a hole in the bottom. And all it takes is a single shell to destroy it, its complement of aircraft, and the flight deck. The troepdos and missle you mention are going to have to get past the fleet that typically surrounds a battleship, as well as the battleships own anti-missle/anti-sub defenses. Most ships, including battleships, carry anti-sub missles nowadays. Nearly all, 'cept the carrier. It has absolutely no defense other then its aircraft and what few missle laucnhers it has. A nuke won't work because the tsunami caused by it would sink the carrier and its fleet, as well as upset the global climate and get nearly every countr in the world agered at the country that owns the carrier.

On a side note, Federation ships can't possibly be made out of large percentage of Neutronium. If they did, they effectively fly like a brick as soon as they entered the gravity well of a planet.

Respensum est Canicula

[Kittamaru]

That wouldn't work... if the guy is dead, the brain dies in minutes.

Replicaters create material from near nothing - it's sub-atomic reconstruction, thus any ambient atoms can be turned into other ones.

Star Trek neutronium comes from a Neutron Star... it's said in Star Trek. And the density of the mass of a neutron star is, and I quote:

A typical neutron star has a mass between 1.35 and about 2.1 solar masses, with a corresponding radius between 20 and 10 km,[1] respectively — 30,000 to 70,000 times smaller than the Sun. Thus, neutron stars have overall densities of 8.4×1016 to 1×1018 kg/m³,[2] which compares with the approximate density of an atomic nucleus of 3×1017 kg/m³.[3] The neutron star's density varies from below 1×109 kg/m³ in the crust increasing with depth to above 6 or 8×1017 kg/m³ deeper inside.[4]

You can safely say a 1x1 inch cube from a neutron stars core would weigh around 10 million tonnes by doing a simple calculation.

Yes, our star has that much life - but in a mere 2 billion years, our star will be a red giant as well, thus ending LIFE on our inhabitable planet.

No, it is NOT Empire vs Federation... it's SW vs ST... hence the Borg are fighting too

All ships have to drop shields to transport - the Romulans have specialized transporters for implanting Tal Shiar spies without dropping their cloak though. No shields, but you can't detect em either.

Federation ships are NOT made of Neutronium... what made you think that? The Dyson Sphere, however, was. It's also indestructable.

There is no such thing as a modern Battleship... the LAST battleship to ever sail in the USN was the USS Misouri.

Oh, and the CVN-65 Big-E carries:

the ship’s self-defense suite consisted of four RIM-7 Sea Sparrow launchers and two Vulcan Phalanx Mk. 71 gun mounts and RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile launchers.

I would hardly call that "defenseless"

Oh, and if you want to throw battle groups into this, here is the Big-E's carrier battlegroup:

http://www.enterprise.navy.mil/Strike_Group.htm

USS Gettysburg (CG-64) is a Ticonderoga-class cruiser guided-missile cruiser
USS Forrest Sherman (DDG-98) is an Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyer
USS James E. Williams (DDG-95) is an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer
USS Arleigh Burke (DDG-51), named for Admiral Arleigh Albert Burke, USN (1901-1996), is the lead ship of her class of guided missile destroyers, the Arleigh Burke-class
USS Stout (DDG-55) is an Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyer
USS Philadelphia (SSN-690), a Los Angeles-class submarine
USNS Supply (T-AOE-6), a fast combat support ship (AOE)
USS Enterprise (CVN-65), the Big-E herself

4x Arleigh-Burke class guided missile destroyers
1x Ticonderoga class guided missile cruiser
1x Supply and Resupply ship
and the Big-E herself

Yeah, you're little battleship would have to be able to intercept around 50+ missiles inbound at any one time from all directions, as well as torpedoes... plus with those Arleigh Burkes, not a single fucking SEAGULL would get within 100 miles of that fleet without them knowing it was there.

[zeel]

man i love theses forums they remind me of the D.C. vs marvel arguments lol. As far as star wars vs star trek goes.


the "Q" would smash the entire star wars universe the federation the borg the romulans etc would not even be needed.

But with out the help of the "Q"

id say star wars.


jedi's are mere mortals and superhuman wizard types.


no match for a member of the "Q" a god


dont care how many star destroyers ya got, means nothing. Dont care if you have 70 death stars at your command. means nothing.


The "Q" are a over powered race of gods that take second to nothing and the universe is their play pen really.

[Kittamaru]

Zeel, if you go back a few dozen pages and read the math (excluding TWScott, who's insane) you'll see that most federation Cruisers (like the Akira) have more power per second of phaser output than a heavy turbo laser battery releases in the same amount of time.

[Saquist]

When TW was here every day...hmmm. I was begining to believe that Trek wasn't even close...yet a little time away and I watched that episdoe again...and I realized there was a real opportunity for a comparison...

I really had no idea that the one episode held the key to really ending the debate...
And it's still amazing that the phaser is dishing out that much power a second...
I'm guessing it's just that Trek works on just a bigger scale with just about everything.
Where they don't they really don't need it...

Who builds a destructo station as big as a moon when you can blow away a system with a 5 million ISOTON warhead? Why build a starcrusher when a simple missle with trilithium will halt all nuclear reacction in a star...

Trek really just makes it easy.

[USS Athens]

This is not about Empire vs Borg or Empire vs Kazon. Just empire vs Federation. the Federation doesn't have Borg or Kazon technollogy, so your argument is invalid.

Haloguy, it's ST vs. SW got it?

[USS Athens]

The episode were Kirk fights Gorn was on this morning I couldn't stop laughing it was great!

Quick Question, how in hell did he make that, er gun?

Funny, But a good episode!

[Saquist]

Note: Federation ships are not constructed with neutronium.

[Kittamaru]

No they aren't. The Dyson sphere is the only ST thing made with a large portion of Neutronium.

[Saquist]

And Doomsday machine.

[halo07guy]

About the fact that you seem to think battleships are worthless, I ask you: Whcih is Better at shore bombardment, a battleship, or an Arleigh Burke. Sure, missles might hit with pin-point precision. But they can be fooled, shot down, and their tracking systems jammed. But a shell cannot. A shell is impossible to shoot down, usually carrys more firepower then a missle, and is impossible to see coming.

You clearly decided to be a troll with the way you responded about the battleships. A carrier is just a floating runway. Nothing more, nothing less. Its completely defenseless by itself, and I think you'll find that any modern cruiser or destroyer is going to be severely damaged by a 16 inch shell impacting nearly vertically on top of them.

Yes, I would call a ship that relies on weapons that can be shot down defensless. A CIWS can destroy missles and aircraft relatively easily. And you do realize that the Missouri was refitted and upgraded several times, right? Also of note is that you say 50= missles are coming fom all directions. Now that would mean that the battleship has no supporting fleet. That would mean the Big E has no ships defending it, thus leabing it defensless. Any why do you automatically assume that the battleship won't have any ships escorting it? You seem to think that it will be the battleship versus the entire taskforce, when anybody who knows the value of a battleship will keep it heavily guarded.

[Saquist]

Nimitz Class Carriers are well equiped with air to air missles and Phalanx canons
----
NATO Sea Sparrow launchers: three or four (depending on modification)
20 mm Phalanx CIWS mounts: Three on Nimitz and Dwight D. Eisenhower and four on Carl Vinson and later ships of the class, except Theodore Roosevelt and George Washington which have three. (USS Ronald Reagan has none, initially outfitted with Rolling Airframe Missile system during construction)
RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile

The do primarily rely on their fighters for ship to ship combat but they are far from defenseless.

[USS Athens]

Er... This battleship debate is worthless. A WWII battleship would not survive an attack from a modern-day aircraft carrier. And for that matter, a Cruiser attack.

Not even a WWII carrier attack, that's why carriers were so valued back in WWII. Another reason that all of our carriers were out of pearl harbor (include the big-E ).

[Saquist]

And that...ladies and gentlmen is all she wrote.

[Kittamaru]

Also, HaloGuy, there is NO modern day Battleships.

You know why?

It's called putting your eggs in one basket - a battleship is big, slow, and dumb. You cannot make armor to withstand modern day weapons - it is simply impossible to create something hollow that can withstand a 1000 pound warhead shoved in front of a 2 tonne missile doing mach 3! It is NOT possible! Active Defense is the norm today, passive defense is the backup system, countermeasures are the secondary defenses, and armor plating is the last line of defense.

Saying a carrier is defenseless by itself? No shit. Strip it of it's aircraft and it's pretty useless.

Strip a battleship of it's main guns and it's pretty damn useless too!

Stop talking like you know what you're saying because you clearly don't. My father spent 25 years in the british special forces. He has served aboard vessels YOU don't even know EXIST. He has photographic proof of the effects of strike planes vs large sea borne vessels - I'll tell you what, the carrier wins 99.9% of the time! You are comparing a battleship to a carrier... but you keep insisiting it's battleship battle group vs lone carrier. It isn't. Carries have damned good escorts that would, on their own, pummel a battleship. A modern day FRIGATE would destroy any and all battleships they came up against! End of story mate!

[Saquist]

Heated....

[Kittamaru]

I just have a problem with people ignoring cold hard facts - it's easy to debate Sci-Fi and Sci-Fantasy, but these are simple facts and he's ignoring them like they don't matter XD

[Saquist]

But they're not a tool or weapon...they do what they want and they don't necesarily always due what we want them too. nor would the Imperials be any threat to them...Jedi and Sith would be a fascinating study but that's about it.

[Kittamaru]

Er, what? You lost me mate - I was talking about the Battleship vs Carrier debate :P

[Saquist]

No...the guy erased his post...