02-17-08, 03:42 PM #8501
Sorry...not one second of phaser fire... 6 seconds of phaser power equal the total volley of a ISD...and that's if we don't include that the target in the example was six times larger than the asteroid that the ISD Avenger destroyed in ESB.
The Q are never a garantee..
The Borg..well. There is no defeating the Borg with that sort of pathetic firepower. I doubt there will be a need to adapt.
02-17-08, 08:39 PM #8502
It might be based on WW2 combat, but a single WW2 battleship could sink any modern ship.
02-17-08, 09:49 PM #8503
Not true. Todays weaponry would destroy a WWII naval vessl before it ever came over the horizon. It wouldn't have the tech to track the attack let alone defend against it.
02-17-08, 10:31 PM #8504
halo07guy... you are either incredibly stupid or have no idea...
a WW2 Battleship would not only not know what happened when a Seawolf class fast attack sub breaks its back with a single MK 48 ADCAP torpedo, but would most likely never even have the chance to fire a single shot... modern day 5 inch batteries can throw shells further than a WW2 20 inch gun could! Not to mention the Phalanx system, RALTorps (Rocket Assist Launch Torpedoes), Cruise Missiles (a single TASM would obliterate any and all WW2 ships... a single TALM-N would obliterate the entire naval battle group!) and a host of other weapons!
Or, we could launch a single A-10/F/A-18/F-14/F-22/B-2/etc and have it single handedly destroy the battleship before it even knew that plane was within 50 miles of it!
02-18-08, 05:54 PM #8505
however... what kind of math are you using where 16 miles is further than 26? and what kind of damage do you expect the 5 inch shell to do?splinter the deck?
Also the Missouri's have phalanx, cruise missiles and modernish (circa late 80's) radar systems. Nukes of course are sort of cheating in this case as their just as destructive against modern ships... although it is worth noting that during one of the nuclear tests involving decomed ships sitting in an atol's bay, a captured Japanese's battleship was still floating afterwards, had to be sunk separately, or so i remember reading.
it depends on what ordinance their packing, but i'd highly doubt a single one of any of those planes could do enough damage to a battleship to sink it, they can only carry so much of a payload at one time (excepting of course with air launched torpedoes) the f-14, and 22 couldn't even touch it seeing how their air superiority fighters. actually the b-2 could probably do some serious damage, even sinking it... but then it's a strategic bomber...
In general though, a battleship is going to be no more vulnerable to these kinds of attacks than modern ships, and considerably better protected against many threats
02-18-08, 06:00 PM #8506
And that's as bad as the sitauation is between Trek and Wars.
They don't have the firepower and they don't have the tech.
02-18-08, 10:42 PM #8507
I have not read all eight thousands and some odd posts, so has no one refered to the Federation USS Relativity or the Krenim Temporal Ship from the Delta Quadrant that has Chroniton Torpedoes and a burst from its temporal core could wipe out an entire civilazation from existance. On the argument of the distance between Star Trek and Star Wars galaxies. Has no one seen the TOS episode "Where no man has gone before" where we find a barrier surrounding the milky way that presumably is impermiable by conventional means. Thus we assume this is a hypothetical question and that they are both placed in their respective time periods at one location.
02-18-08, 11:34 PM #8508
I would encourage you to read some of it...This thread has been quite the drama.
Everything from Prometheus to Relativity has been discussed almost to an unnescessary length. I've only participated for the last 250 pages...
At first this seemed like a close contest...now...it seems like a certain win on Trek. Turns out the information was always there.
02-19-08, 03:05 AM #8509
02-19-08, 01:48 PM #8510
Ignore Scott all newcomers, he's the resident psycho. I've stopped even trying to argue with him because he blindly follows everything the EU tells him, even when the Star Wars movies directly contradict it *shrugs sadly* Tis a shame... he was active enough at one point that, had he been able to be logical, he'd have been a good debater.
02-19-08, 06:00 PM #8511
He's already on my mandatory ignore list...and he's the only one there..
He's just about the biggest suck up to Star Wars I've ever seen.
you know he would have pretty decent as a debator if he accept some knowledge outside of the Star Wars colored glasses he walks around in.
02-19-08, 09:56 PM #8512
Same here, Tee-dubya Scotch is on my ignore.
Have any of you noticed that his and Wong's arguments are based off of radical speculation? I mean, since SW movies are for everyday people, meaning the viewers don't have to assume very much. So if a SW ship blows up on-screen, it blew up. SW movies are meant to be simplistic. Poor TW and Wong just can't accept that. I almost feel sorr... Nah.
02-20-08, 10:05 AM #8513
No couldn't feel anything but annoyance for Scott and Wong.
It so apparent the Star Wars only takes in about a fraction of the fire power from Trek. Before I used to think they were close, but no more. It's easy to see the superiority. And I bet you the technology they have is transplanted...Hyperspace tech probably was developed by a long dead race.
In any case...They have no reason to go faster since they can't leave their Galaxy. Thu they have no reason to devop better tech than what they have...so they just create new ways to blow each other up.
It seems pretty limited.
02-20-08, 06:57 PM #8514
02-21-08, 12:57 AM #8515
Why bother FoolFromHell. just remove him from view...nothing intelligent ever comes up.
He's a star wars parrot. He doesn't question what he repeating and I don't he ever will.
02-21-08, 03:42 PM #8516
A battleship has numerous water tight compartments, range that rivals that of a missle, not including the cruise missles they usually carry, and are escorted by large fleets. Their armor is thicker then any other modern ship, most WW2 era ships are double-hulled, and have plenty of countermeasures against flooding. Any modern taskforce is going to have a hell of time even attampting to take down a battleship, especially the refitted ones. What happens when a 16-inch shell impacts on the carriers deck? Or a 16-inch armor-piercing round? What about a Tomahawk cruise missle?
In fact, Battleships are so superior to any other kind of ship, that WW2 era ships were used by the US Navy untill about 2004, and even then, they can be called back into service at any moment.
As for SW Hyperdrive being transplanted... your just flatout wrong. Canon clearly states that the Humans developed it over 25,000 years ago, before the formation of the Republic.
Something else I should say: Why do you guys think you can transport a bomb in if the shields are up? Or the fact that ISDs have neutronium armor, which is going to be as resistant, if not moreso, then GCS armor. And did you guys ignore what I said earlier?
SW has superior manufacturing capability, superior strategical movement, covers the area of nearly an entire galaxy, and all the materials and industry thereof. I
Another thing I'd like to point out: A multi-gigaton weapon DOES NOT EQUAL A LARGE EXPLOSION. You guys are saying that its possible for ST to focus a large amount of firepower into a small area, and SW can't? If Earth can survive a teraton level impact from a meteor that very likely created the Gulf of Mexico, then why are you guys using the logic that a multi-gigaton figure, which has less then a tenth the energy of the Yucatan Penisula impact, can blow up a planet?! Why are you saying that a Megaton-level weapon should be abe to destroy a large city.
Megaton or Gigaton is just a measure of a weapons total energy output. A nuke spreads that output over a large area. But a megaton of energy does not equal a nuclear-like explosion.
And another thing I'd like to touch upon: SW has 2.2 billion years to advance its technollogy. Thats how far in the past it is. The best estimates canon has is that the SW galaxy formed around 1.5 billion years after the Big Bang. In those regards, I'd say that present or future tech is pretty screwed.
And theres a few things SW can do/has that ST can't/doesn't have.
A.Can clone an experienced army very rapidly.
B.Can ressurect a person from death. Can transfer the brain and mind of a person to a clone.
C. Can manufacture an army in a very short time.
D. Can actually cross the void between galaxys.
E.Isn't afraid to use Bio-Weapons and WMDs, like the Federation.
F. Personal Cloaking and Shielding devices.
G. Can actually move when a cloak is engaged.
H. Has extreamly advanced industrial technollogy. For example, the capacity to send a planet into Hyperspace or move an entire system of planets.
I. Has near unlimited resources.
J. Can mass produce nearly any ship, and has millions of worlds from which to produce from.
K. Acttualy has a ground army. And effective ground vehicles.
02-21-08, 05:55 PM #8517
Aight halo, let me set you straight:
The Los Angeles class SSN Fast Attack Submarine can sink a battleship from 28,000 yards. Why? It uses the Mark 48 ADCAP Torpedo which uses a 480 pound shaped charge. This charge creates a plasma plume that can burn thru almost 28 inches of steel plate armor, much less a battleships armor belt.
FAILING THAT, it can launch a HARPOON anti-ship missile which strikes the ship at mach 2, shoving inside a piercing warhead that detonates inside the ship. This warhead weighs in at 750 pounds and would break the back of most modern day cruisers.
FAILING THAT, it can launch a TASM Anti-Ship Tomohawk cruise missile that carries a 1500 pound high explosive warhead that would plow into the DECK of the ship at a little over mach 3. Yeah, you do the math.
SHOULD THAT NOT WORK, it could launch a TALM-N Tomohawk cruise missile. This is a fucking nuke. Right. Into. The. Ship.
Oh, and by the way - it carries 50 MK48 ADCAPS, 12 HARPOON missiles, and 24 Tomohawk missiles of varying warheads. So yeah... 1, ONE aging nuclear submarine could kill EVERY USN battleship in existance.
Oh, and it could do it without the battleship knowing where it was being hit from.
Now, take the USS Enterprise CVN-65, the first nuclear powered aircraft carrier, and 8th USN ship to bear the name Enterprise. Here is an exerpt on this ship:
"USS Enterprise (CVN-65), formerly CVA(N)-65, is the world's first nuclear-powered aircraft carrier and the eighth U.S. Naval vessel to bear the name. Like her predecessor of World War II fame, she is nicknamed the "Big E." At 1,123 feet (342.3 m), she is the longest naval vessel in the world, though her 93,500 tons displacement places her as the second heaviest supercarrier, surpassed only by the Nimitz-class.
Enterprise is currently homeported at Norfolk, Virginia. As one of the oldest carriers in the fleet, she is scheduled for decommissioning in 2014-2015. Her intended replacement is the USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN-78). Her current commanding officer is Captain Ronald Horton."
That ship is awesome... period. No WW2 BB could take it on.
As for the SciFi stuff:
2.2 billion years... SW is DEAD. They're stars would burn out :P
If they could ressurect a person from death, why'd Padme die? They couldn't even keep her alive :P
Federation isn't afraid of Bio-Weapons or WMD's - they just like not using them if they can.
Near unlimited resources? Yeah, right... then star treks are LIMITLESS - replicaters, duh.
Trek has a damned effective ground army and vehicles. Problem is, ground army vs say a sovereign class starship... who's going to win?
Clones are no big - trek can simply dematerealize them
Personal Cloaking and Shielding - Borg anyone? How about Kazon?
Trek doesn't need to send a planet into Hyperspace - they simply move space around the planet
The #1 reason Trek would win:
Chuck Norris is from Earth. Earth is in the Federation. Thus, the Federation has Chuck Norris.
Star Wars Neutronium is NOT Star Trek neutronium... get that thru your head NOW.
Star Trek Neutronium (eg, impervious to phasers and transporters) is formed INSIDE a neutron star... yet in Star Wars, Han Solo was able to PICK UP a 1inch by 1inch CUBE of it... that shit SHOULD weigh a few THOUSAND pounds. Yeah, sorry, NOT neutronium.
Sorry mate, it's been decided via math - Trek would win. It's firepower is VASTLY superior... read the last few dozen pages if you don't believe me.
02-21-08, 07:08 PM #8518
That is not your usual post Kittamaru. You are quite knowledgable about naval history technology.
02-21-08, 07:18 PM #8519
*grins* I'm quite achieved when it comes to military history, naval, airborne, or land based. I have an intense love of weaponry and how it works, and having a father who's ex special forces certainly doesn't hurt.
My personal favorite debate is this: .44 Magnum vs .50 Desert Eagle. Which is more powerful? *grins* I love the revolver style of the .44... revolvers, literally, can only jam one way, and it's so rare it's an almost impossibility. Automatics can jam easily, but have the advantage of being easy enough to clear and rapid fire ability.
02-21-08, 07:32 PM #8520
The episode were Kirk fights Gorn was on this morning I couldn't stop laughing it was great!
Quick Question, how in hell did he make that, er gun?
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