Star Wars vs Star Trek

[USS Athens]

See above post

What I mean is that SW physics are very much different from ST physics right? (I don't want to here any crap from TW about how SW physics are more realistic and that SW is more scientific than ST.) That means that the're in different universes, not galaxies (Lightspeed crossing the galaxy in a couple of seconds?!? !!!!!!!!!!!!!).

[JohnM81]

What I mean is that SW physics are very much different from ST physics right? (I don't want to here any crap from TW about how SW physics are more realistic and that SW is more scientific than ST.) That means that the're in different universes, not galaxies (Lightspeed crossing the galaxy in a couple of seconds?!? !!!!!!!!!!!!!).

There is only so much consistancy you can ask for. Remember this is a made up story from people who might or might not be knowledgable in physics. Star wars canon says its a galaxy far far away and so it is.

[Saquist]

Besides the fact that their fire arcs have large blind spots.

I don't have to assume.
You must not know what a World Devastor does.

I did the same. All I could come up with are pics of silencer 7 and some other pictures that didn't show any information on the tractor beam fire arcs.

Why would we need information of tractor beam fire arcs?

[JohnM81]

I don't have to assume.
You must not know what a World Devastor does.

Sure I do.

Why would we need information of tractor beam fire arcs?

Maybe Im misunderstanding your point. You said a tactic against a WD would be lock a tractor beam on them. I assumed you meant lock a tractor beam on them so that the other ship could stay out of the WD's tractor beam fire arc. It is these tractor beams that tear planets apart.

Perhaps you should explain what your point is completely because i get the feeling we are talking about two different things.

[USS Athens]

There is only so much consistancy you can ask for. Remember this is a made up story from people who might or might not be knowledgable in physics. Star wars canon says its a galaxy far far away and so it is.

But can SW canon override simple physics?

[JohnM81]

But can SW canon override simple physics?

Absolutely. Take light sabers for example. How does a particle or pure energy beam deflect energy? How is its length finite? These are examples of where canon overrides simple physics.

It is a make believe after all. All we can do is use science to explain canon but canon supercedes physics.

[halo07guy]

Well, scientists have been able to create something similar to a lightsaber by containing superheated plasma inside a magnetic field. Its possible that a lightsaber is actually a very, very thin "blade" of plasma contained inside a dense magnetic field. That would explain why it deflects particle weapons, can cut through nearly all objects, and meets resistance against another lightsaber.

I propose that the blade is nowhere near as large as it seems, that its actually a very tiny (Maybe 1 cm thick.) contained beam of plasma about 1m long. What makes it seem large is the radiated light. The heat of the plasma is probably what causes it to slice though things. Theres even some evidence, as in Episode 3, Count Dooku loses hands and the wound is instantly cauterized. I admit that I don't know how they contain the heat. It could be it generates a huge amount of heat, but it doesn't radiate very far.

[Exiled]

Well, scientists have been able to create something similar to a lightsaber by containing superheated plasma inside a magnetic field. Its possible that a lightsaber is actually a very, very thin "blade" of plasma contained inside a dense magnetic field. That would explain why it deflects particle weapons, can cut through nearly all objects, and meets resistance against another lightsaber.

I propose that the blade is nowhere near as large as it seems, that its actually a very tiny (Maybe 1 cm thick.) contained beam of plasma about 1m long. What makes it seem large is the radiated light. The heat of the plasma is probably what causes it to slice though things. Theres even some evidence, as in Episode 3, Count Dooku loses hands and the wound is instantly cauterized. I admit that I don't know how they contain the heat. It could be it generates a huge amount of heat, but it doesn't radiate very far.

Would you have any sources for us to check out?

[Exiled]

I think Star Trek would win, mainly because I have seen time travel in a Star Trek episode, there for, if they loose they can simply go back into time and redo there war plan as many times as they would like. I could be wrong though, I admit I am huge not a Star Trek fan and the episode was a long time ago.

[JohnM81]

Well, scientists have been able to create something similar to a lightsaber by containing superheated plasma inside a magnetic field. Its possible that a lightsaber is actually a very, very thin "blade" of plasma contained inside a dense magnetic field. That would explain why it deflects particle weapons, can cut through nearly all objects, and meets resistance against another lightsaber.

First off creating a stream of plasma is nothing special. We call them plasma torches. And guess what, pass a laser or matter through it and it doesn't bounce back.

I propose that the blade is nowhere near as large as it seems, that its actually a very tiny (Maybe 1 cm thick.) contained beam of plasma about 1m long. What makes it seem large is the radiated light. The heat of the plasma is probably what causes it to slice though things. Theres even some evidence, as in Episode 3, Count Dooku loses hands and the wound is instantly cauterized. I admit that I don't know how they contain the heat. It could be it generates a huge amount of heat, but it doesn't radiate very far.

Which brings up another non-scientific obseration. When Qui gon was cutting thru the blast doors in episode 1 and the metal was white hot yet his hands were only a few inches away. He clothes should have been on fire and hands burned at that proximity and at that temp.

But again, when it comes to make believe, canon supercedes science.

[JohnM81]

I think Star Trek would win, mainly because I have seen time travel in a Star Trek episode, there for, if they loose they can simply go back into time and redo there war plan as many times as they would like. I could be wrong though, I admit I am huge not a Star Trek fan and the episode was a long time ago.

Ill admit I haven't seen VOY relativity, but from the episode notes I think the future feds only came back to stop a temporal paradox (temporal bomb). Im not convinced they would come back for any reason besides to stop a paradox. And if the empire sent an extra galactic invasion force that took the time from "a long long time ago" to the era of fedeation traveling in hyperspace there would be no temporal paradox or temporal incursion. Notice Im saying they don't use a worm hole.

Without future feds the milkyways only hope is the borg and I doubt anyone would ally with them.

[FoolFromHell]

Without future feds the milkyways only hope is the borg and I doubt anyone would ally with them.

It doesnt matter if they ally with the Borg.

The Borg, Species 8472, Voth, everyone, is involved in this war.

[Saquist]

Sure I do.

okay so why are you asking for turbolaser firing arcs?

Maybe Im misunderstanding your point. You said a tactic against a WD would be lock a tractor beam on them. I assumed you meant lock a tractor beam on them so that the other ship could stay out of the WD's tractor beam fire arc. It is these tractor beams that tear planets apart.

ooooh.
No.

I was saying that a World Devasator could be restricted from destorying a planet by the application of a tractor beam . The idea here is that a World Devastator needs to have it's intakes pointed toward the planet in order to harvest the materials That intake is the arc I was refering to.[/QUOTE]

you threw me off with the Turbo laser thing.

[JohnM81]

It doesnt matter if they ally with the Borg.

The Borg, Species 8472, Voth, everyone, is involved in this war.

Why, canonically speaking, would species 8472 get involved in a fight of a universe that isn't theres and they left?

[JohnM81]

okay so why are you asking for turbolaser firing arcs?








ooooh.
No.

I was saying that a World Devasator could be restricted from destorying a planet by the application of a tractor beam . The idea here is that a World Devastator needs to have it's intakes pointed toward the planet in order to harvest the materials That intake is the arc I was refering to.

you threw me off with the Turbo laser thing.

Assuming a tractor beam was strong enough and the WDs sheilds were knocked down and the WDs turbolasers weren't shooting a the emitter, and that there weren't other WDs (they travel in groups) tearing the offending tractor beam emitter apart and the swarms of continually manufactured fighters weren't attacking/ramming/cutting across the beam and the masses of automated capital ships that WDs can make aren't doing what the fighters could then yeah that might work.

[USS Athens]

Absolutely. Take light sabers for example. How does a particle or pure energy beam deflect energy? How is its length finite? These are examples of where canon overrides simple physics.

It is a make believe after all. All we can do is use science to explain canon but canon supercedes physics.

That doesn't make sense though, you simply cannot overide physics with phrase "A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away"..., even if that is SW canon. Lucas canon cannot overide real life physics, just like his canon cannot overide ST canon (TW said EVERYONE, even in the ST had medichloreans! !!!).

[JohnM81]

That doesn't make sense though, you simply cannot overide physics with phrase "A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away"..., even if that is SW canon. Lucas canon cannot overide real life physics, just like his canon cannot overide ST canon (TW said EVERYONE, even in the ST had medichloreans! !!!).

Sure you can simply overide physics. When you do, your story becomes FICTION. Enterprise, we are talking about a made up story! And of course there will be contradictions in the two stories canons. And there will be contradictions inside each canon also! Thats because when these stories are written, the writers are concerned with making a good story that will get them $$$ and not worrying about consistancy.

When we talk about st vs sw all of us have to be prepared to be a little flexible due to the above reasons.

[Saquist]

Assuming a tractor beam was strong enough and the WDs sheilds were knocked down and the WDs turbolasers weren't shooting a the emitter, and that there weren't other WDs (they travel in groups) tearing the offending tractor beam emitter apart and the swarms of continually manufactured fighters weren't attacking/ramming/cutting across the beam and the masses of automated capital ships that WDs can make aren't doing what the fighters could then yeah that might work.

I'm going to assume that a Galaxy class ship has the power to move a WD.

1/In Star Wars shield do not protect against tractor beams and never have.

2/The Turbolasers on the WD's could only be as much as equivilent to a Star Destroyers anti fighter turbo lasers. (Galaxy phasers are 6 to 8 times the firepower)
3/ There are no Heavy turbo laser emplacements which are the only weapon on a ISD which could be equal or greater than a Galaxy class phasers.
As i

4/Tactics are a seperate issue so thus I'm not considering formations. This is a one one consideration. Fleet Actions are complicated to project.

[Saquist]

I've done very effectual simulations with the Onscreen Fire power of fighters and of Star Wars captial ships.

The Galaxy must maintain a distance of one Kilometer to 2 Kilometers to remain out of range of anti fighter weapons. It can take the punishment but only fore a limited time...about two or three mintes of pounding on one shield.

In numbers Fighter prove less of a risk. They don't have the same firepower of the anti fighter turbo lasers. The don't disentigrate or obliterate unless by certain hits. Antifighter emplacements consistently blow appart they're targets. Further fighter shields would be mostly useless against star ship phasers. There might be a slight hesitiating against the beam. One or two strikes and the figher is gone and that's only if the phaser is stopped by the shield. (sometimes shields in Star Wars aren't completely Omni directional in cover) -Star Wars.com

[JohnM81]

I'm going to assume that a Galaxy class ship has the power to move a WD.

Being a rebel fleet couldn't take out seven WDs that assumption might not be valid.

1/In Star Wars shield do not protect against tractor beams and never have.

Do you have canon evidence of this? And please show using such canon evidence how you know its not an issue of star trek tractor beams (that can't be used on sheilded vessels) being inferior to star wars tractor beams (that work on sheilded targets).

2/The Turbolasers on the WD's could only be as much as equivilent to a Star Destroyers anti fighter turbo lasers. (Galaxy phasers are 6 to 8 times the firepower)

Why do you say that? WDs have turbolasers ranging from heavy turbolaser down to anti fighter turbo lasers. WDs range from 3kms and larger why wouldn't they have the same multi gigaton weapons that an ISD has?

3/ There are no Heavy turbo laser emplacements which are the only weapon on a ISD which could be equal or greater than a Galaxy class phasers.
As i

Really? Interesting. I have seen calculations for turbolasers can you show me your calcs for galaxy class phasers? I have been looking for some calcs for a while.

4/Tactics are a seperate issue so thus I'm not considering formations. This is a one one consideration. Fleet Actions are complicated to project.

You don't have to. However I am being the whole points of WDs are to make massive amounts of ships while in combat and constantly repairing themselves at the same time.