Star Wars vs Star Trek

[FoolFromHell]

I agree with wong that the feds would be easy prey for imp tech. But the borg are a sleeping giant that the empire better not mess with.

Transphasic Torpedos. Standard fare for 26th century Federation.

[JohnM81]

Transphasic Torpedos. Standard fare for 26th century Federation.

Correct me if I am wrong, but transphasic torps are a future weapon and given to capt. janeway by her future version.

Correct?


Do we have canon evidence that suggests that Starfleet integrated this weapon into the fleet? We do have canon evidence that suggests starfleet is very concerned about disrupting the time line and using future tech would definately be a disruption to the normal progression of tech evolution.



EDIT: I think its called the Temporal Prime Directive.

[TW Scott]

Correct me if I am wrong, but transphasic torps are a future weapon and given to capt. janeway by her future version.

Correct?

Illegally at that. By all rights, current Janeway should have destroyed them and shot her future self on suspicion that she was another trick cooked up to screw Voyager. It would have fit the character.

Do we have canon evidence that suggests that Starfleet integrated this weapon into the fleet? We do have canon evidence that suggests starfleet is very concerned about disrupting the time line and using future tech would definately be a disruption to the normal progression of tech evolution.

Hell for all we know the copies she took back might be unique and unduplicatable. Even if they could be duplicated they might take 30 years to develop. Provided there were any left to experiment on.

Not only that these weapons show a great effect against Star trek style shields which are vastly inferior to Star Wars type shields.


As for those Trekkers (Trekkies are too smart to make this following argument and they widely accept that Star Wars would win) that make the argument of 29th century Federation. Who is to say that 29th century Federation is not a protectorate of the Empire or New Replublic?

[TW Scott]

The real reason Star Wars wins.

[USS Athens]

The real reason Star Wars wins.

[USS Athens]

Actually...the M16 was a holographic weapon that Picard grabbed. What the Borg were killed by would have been closer to a solid light ostruction "beamed" into their bodies, which would have been how the bullets would have been manifested. Voyager's Doctor demonstrated his ability to change tangibility - this would have been exactly the way that the holographic M16 bullets worked.

A little more difficult to adjust to right? Further, it'd belie the effectiveness of actual M16 auto machine guns.

Actually it was a Thompson.

[TW Scott]

Show me a Trekkie even half that gorgeous.....

[TW Scott]

Actually it was a Thompson.

Correct it was Thompson Machine Rifles in .45ACP. Today the caliber of the round would label it a submachinegun. But I find it hysterical that the Federation cannot create a kinetic weapon with the stopping power of a .45ACP to save their crews.

[USS Exeter]

The Thomson's bullets were subsonic (not light speed or sub-light) so the slugs did more damage to a target than a fast moving projectile would have.

[TW Scott]

The Thomson's bullets were subsonic (not light speed or sub-light) so the slugs did more damage to a target than a fast moving projectile would have.

Actually a .44 magnum blows a .45ACP right out of the water and I won;t go into .475 Linebuagh, .500 S&W Magnum or .600 Nitro....

All you need for damage is a round that will deform in flesh. Hell glaser rounds fired at hypersonic speeds would make mincemeat out of Borg and yet fail to penetrate the ship's hull.

[Hellblade8]

Illegally at that. By all rights, current Janeway should have destroyed them and shot her future self on suspicion that she was another trick cooked up to screw Voyager. It would have fit the character.

She didn't because she's a hypocritical twit, and she didn't trust her future self to begin with and had her examined by EMH.

Hell for all we know the copies she took back might be unique and unduplicatable. Even if they could be duplicated they might take 30 years to develop. Provided there were any left to experiment on.

Sorry, but you have no evidence of this. The fact that Voyager was able to adapt Voyager to use them is pretty telling. Not only that, but why would it take 30 years to understand the technology? Its only a few decades ahead of their own, so it wouldn't be too hard. Perhaps five or so years at max.

Not only that these weapons show a great effect against Star trek style shields which are vastly inferior to Star Wars type shields.

Um, bullshit much? Or did you get around to actually responding to the twenty or so posts that outlines superior UFP firepower than your claims? If so, I must have missed them.

As for those Trekkers (Trekkies are too smart to make this following argument and they widely accept that Star Wars would win) that make the argument of 29th century Federation. Who is to say that 29th century Federation is not a protectorate of the Empire or New Replublic?

Because not only are they from two seperate universes, but that statement is completely retarded?

The 29th UFP however, would utterly assrape the Empire. They if I recall, extend into the Delta Quadrant, and have advanced temporal technology, and when their ships go boom, it takes out entire an entire solar system. What happens when Imperial ships go boom? Oh, that's right, their wanked out ships that supposedly pump out 200 gigatons easily, don't even affect a nearby moon when their multi-mile ship explodes. Isn't that just whoop-de-fucking great? Again, we get to see just how pathetic you are at making blinded arguments.

[Hellblade8]

firstly i have no idea why you are talking about the force, Han doesnt have it

Secondly your assuming that because he said it would take 1000 ships that they dont have more than that. After all you dont put all your forces in one spot, they have others on other worlds keeping order, guarding coricent ect

thirdly your assuming he was calculating correctly rather than pulling a number out of his ass because he didnt want to belive alderon was destroyed

Odd, he doesn't have any form of expertise when it comes to Imperial firepower, but he's competent enough to know about their secret blindspot?

You're either wanting to have it two ways, or you have to accept that this is a flaw in all ISDs know to enough people that Han knew, and shows Imperial stupidity because A) They never fixed it, and B) They didn't think to look there.

Not to mention that we also hear Han saying that they'd be crazy to follow them into a asteroid field, and later on we hear one of the officers telling Lord Vader that they couldn't risk entering the asteroid field.

[Hellblade8]

You going to have to show me the calculations that disprove Dr. Wong cause Ive read a 100 pages and I don't feel like digging it up. No it couldn't vaporize a planet. That could only be true if your planet is 50 meters in diameter. The energy of a TL is no way near the power to vaporize a planet.

Wong has been dishonest in the past, take his NDF theory for example. Part of what he uses to prove his point is by using a UFP material, claiming its another, and then saying the name was just changed slightly over the years, and yet turns around and says that Turbolasers aren't lasers just because they share the same, or similar name. It's hypocritical and just pathetic.



Doubt it. But even if you are right thats irrelevent. Its Scifi, ya know, make believe. If its shown in the movies as I believe it does, then its considered fact.

I do too. However, the recoil should send those things flying right off those ISDs, at least as far as the laws of physics says. Of course, it's sci-fi.

Just like it's canon that Voyager suvived a planet exploding right in front of it, and an armada of 20 Romulan/Cardassian ships can destroy 30% of a planet's crust within 4 seconds of orbital bombardment. Take that at 1.5% for every ship, and a UFP ship should be able to take out a planet's crust (basicly, what you're so proud to claim that an ISD can do in an hour) in about 4 minutes, and 45 seconds. Possibly more, since Cardassian ships suck ass (UFP fighters deal heavy damage to them) and are practically a century behind the UFP, so it may have been 2% for the warbirds, and .5% for the Cardassian crap ships. But this way, we have a lower limit to fall back on.

Now, those 20 ships should have logically have been able to destroy the planet within 13.33 seconds, but assuming it takes them just as long to reload as it does to fire, we can double it to 26.67 for you. So, less than half a minute. Now, remember Best of Both Worlds? Where the UFP gathered 40 ships to fight off the Borg, but got bitch slapped? Yeah, that fleet would have taken out a planet's crust in about 13.33 seconds. Imagine what the Borg cube can do to an Imperial fleet.

[Hellblade8]

Actually taking the whole Star Wars universe in question the Q are no more impressive than an Ang-Ti monks that is also a jedi. And considerably less impressive than Luke Skywalker or Emperor Palpatine. Either one of which has violated complete rules of physics through shear power alone. Q still operates at least in the rules of physics and Space Time. His limits are beyond what we understand, but he can't do some of the things we see Luke or Palpatine do in the novels.

Really? Luke and Palpy can hurl half-mile long ships across the galaxy, create plasma fields that travel faster than the speed of light, create temporal paradoxes, destroy the fabric of the universe with a small civil war, bring people back to life, transport people from place to place, create realities on whime, and take people to other dimensions for kicks? Wow, news to me.

[Hellblade8]

There you go, lying again.

You should talk?

Output of Galaxy class warp core 12.5 billion gigawatts per second.

No it isn't. The output of the Enterprise D is 12.75 billion gigawatts is when the ship is in atmosphere of a planet and not in warp, or doing anything else. In fact, all was running was life support, and possibly a few holodecks.

Also, the remark makes no sense. Watts, is already per second, part of the term itself. To say that it was gigawatts per second would have to imply that the warpcore was increasing in power by 12.75 billiong gigawatts per second, so that would mean that:

Second 1: 12.75 billion gigawatts
Second 2: 25.5 billion gigawatts
Second 3: 38.25 billion gigawatts

This makes no sense in any fashion, and furthermore, is silly since they aren't doing anything. Also, the 'second' part is non-canon, so we can just assume that Data was going to say something else, like warpcore, or some such. Otherwise, the whole thing turns wankish or stupid really, really fast.

Also, another episode said that one of their plasma conduits kicks up in the terrawatt range, or something like that. A GCS should easily be able to generate in the high terrwatt range.

Out put of One Heavy Turbolaser 52 billion gigawatts in 1/15th a second.

Cute, now if only it could match the UFP phasers.

An SSD carries 250+ Heavy Turbolasers.

Pathetic. It takes an Imperial ship an hour for what a GCS could do in less than five or ten minutes.

[USS Exeter]

All you need for damage is a round that will deform in flesh. Hell glaser rounds fired at hypersonic speeds would make mincemeat out of Borg and yet fail to penetrate the ship's hull.

Eh? Has this been proven in reality?

[Hellblade8]

Rubbush. The saucer arrays (one in the corner where the top saucer section meets the lower saucer section) and the lower array have a HORRIFIC blind spot RIGHT where it can safely be presumed they are needed the most. Sure, the ship is smaller and more nimble than the Galaxy Class*, but does it REALLY make tactical sense NOT to place them where a ship can pew pew (as you say) an enimy without having to implore, "A but lower please, so that I can get you into my kill zone."**

Notice:



The guys who designed this ship are morons. NO AFT PHASER STRIPS? Huh?

Did you actually watch Star Trek 10?

We see in the movie that there are two phaser emitters towards the lower end of the ship that struck Shinzon's ship, not only that, but two aft torp launchers fired six photons at it. The Enterprise E has all around coverage. Please, even the Enterprise D had an aft torp launcher. Your claim is just silly.

[Hellblade8]

Actually a .44 magnum blows a .45ACP right out of the water and I won;t go into .475 Linebuagh, .500 S&W Magnum or .600 Nitro....

All you need for damage is a round that will deform in flesh. Hell glaser rounds fired at hypersonic speeds would make mincemeat out of Borg and yet fail to penetrate the ship's hull.

Borg shields would likely deflect it.

[TW Scott]

Eh? Has this been proven in reality?

Glaser rounds are proven currrent technology used in house to house fighting. The round is a thin metal jacket that icontains many pellets. The round penetrates felsh and ruptures releasing the pellets that makes wound more horrific than any Hollowpoint round. If the casing hit a solid surface it agains ruptures and the pellets again are scattered rapidly dissiapting energy.

Now imagine .50 caliber railguns with sniper scopes firing these rounds. One shot one kill.

Borg are armored, yes, but they are not fully armored and do not take evasive action. Some minor training and you could have three sharpshooters riding little forklifts moving just faster than the borg taking them out like clockwork.

[JohnM81]

Wong has been dishonest in the past, take his NDF theory for example. Part of what he uses to prove his point is by using a UFP material, claiming its another, and then saying the name was just changed slightly over the years, and yet turns around and says that Turbolasers aren't lasers just because they share the same, or similar name. It's hypocritical and just pathetic.

Like I have said before Im not in the business of defending a man I don't know. However what I do see for rating TL bolts is solid thermodynamics. And until someone shows me specifically in his calculations where there is a mistake I have no reason to disregard his scientific explanation of a canon observation.

Turbolasers can't be lasers. Canon evidence shows they travel slower than light speed and the fact they come in bolts means they aren't lasers either. What exactly are they? I don't know.

Just like it's canon that Voyager suvived a planet exploding right in front of it, and an armada of 20 Romulan/Cardassian ships can destroy 30% of a planet's crust within 4 seconds of orbital bombardment. Take that at 1.5% for every ship, and a UFP ship should be able to take out a planet's crust (basicly, what you're so proud to claim that an ISD can do in an hour) in about 4 minutes, and 45 seconds. Possibly more, since Cardassian ships suck ass (UFP fighters deal heavy damage to them) and are practically a century behind the UFP, so it may have been 2% for the warbirds, and .5% for the Cardassian crap ships. But this way, we have a lower limit to fall back on.

Now, those 20 ships should have logically have been able to destroy the planet within 13.33 seconds, but assuming it takes them just as long to reload as it does to fire, we can double it to 26.67 for you. So, less than half a minute. Now, remember Best of Both Worlds? Where the UFP gathered 40 ships to fight off the Borg, but got bitch slapped? Yeah, that fleet would have taken out a planet's crust in about 13.33 seconds. Imagine what the Borg cube can do to an Imperial fleet.

Slow down there. These above remarks don't mean much to me if you don't start out properly.

1. Show me canon evidence that X amount of of ships can toast the crust of a planet.
2. Show me the energy requred for such a feat.
3. Show me your calculations
4. Show me your assumptions

Don't get me wrong, Im not saying your claims are inaccurate, however I need to start with relabile figures first. I give Wong's claims a degree of confidence because he actually does his calculations. I need you to do the same.

If your point is to show a borg tactical cube could take a ISD then I would say this point is moot. I already showed using canon observations proved that cube could take well over 48 million turbolaser bolts worth of energy and still remain combat effective. And that 48 million is using Dr. Wongs energy levels.

As far as I see it, unless federation violates its own temporal directive (of which I would like to see canon evidence if this is so) the borg are the saviors of the milkyway against the empire. And that is of course if the borg are still alive....