Star Wars vs Star Trek

[USS Athens]

The reactor that was for some reason located in the hanger bay and was completely unshielded?

Like I said before, SW is just one big fat plot divice.

Hey, whenever someone says someting about T-dubya, he comes back...

[Kittamaru]

The reactor that was for some reason located in the hanger bay and was completely unshielded?

Exactly! Plot Hole much?

[Saquist]

Saquist, why does it seem that you hate several Fed ships? I saw on previos posts that all you do is critisize Fed ships? Do you have a favorite class?

It's true.
My name is SaQ and....I'm a starship hater...
I hate every ship that emerged from First Contact and wish feverently that none of them ever had existed. They are indeed...the ugliest ships in Trek...withoutadoubt.

My Favorite ships (because of design and I'm a designer) At the top is the Excelsior Class Its the cruiser that' been around the longest and it's the most dependable.

Intrepid Class It is the most unique hands down and well designed

Galaxy Class It paved the way for the Intrepid

Defiant Class
It Does what it do better then any other doing it.

Constitution Class Refit AKA the Enterprise Class


SaQ's HATE List

At the Top....
Sovereign the most poorly design work of art...hopefully it's stay one of a kind.

Akiraprise
because it's a blatant copy.

Akira
It looks sort of pointless with the long booms to the pylons

Sabre....Yeesh is that really Federation
Norway:::: UGGGH
Steamrunner....eh...I could live with it.


What's on your favorite lit E-A?

[Kittamaru]

The problem is, saquist, that the Ent-E isn't supposed to be a jack of all trades... it's purpose is to go find bad things and then promptly subdue or kill them.

The Akira has the same idea... it's a torpedo boat.

The steamrunner is a short range escort.

The AkiraPrise... blech. it's a POS, I'll give ya that one!

[USS Athens]

The problem is, saquist, that the Ent-E isn't supposed to be a jack of all trades... it's purpose is to go find bad things and then promptly subdue or kill them.

The Akira has the same idea... it's a torpedo boat.

The steamrunner is a short range escort.

The AkiraPrise... blech. it's a POS, I'll give ya that one!

Akira, I'm not entirely sure about the Akira being a torpedo boat, but I do think it is like the Sovereign, only smaller and with less power.

[Saquist]

The problem is, saquist, that the Ent-E isn't supposed to be a jack of all trades... it's purpose is to go find bad things and then promptly subdue or kill them.

The Akira has the same idea... it's a torpedo boat.

The steamrunner is a short range escort.

The AkiraPrise... blech. it's a POS, I'll give ya that one!

Yes, I agree but the Defiant does the same Job...but 600% better.
Infact I wouldn't doubt that the Sovereign runs into the same problem that the constitution refit ran into.

They refit the constitution in Motion Picture and suddenly two movies later a really awesome ship comes out and we never see anothere refit class again.

Sovereign will be the same way. Sisko's team did an INCREDIBLE job on those crystals. The amount of power they're channeling is awesome and it's Dilythium too....the crystal that channels the amazing power of the warp core. Really it's the only crystal that could. There's no way the Sovereign could match the Defiants Power....

Why on Earth would the Federation make Sovereigns for defense and offense when the Defiant does it stunningly wel..

Over time I came to like the Akira a little. it was at least unique and didn't fly in the face of all the rules of starship creation. The Akira's 15 torp tubes makes it a very good long range starship.

[USS Athens]

Yes, I agree but the Defiant does the same Job...but 600% better.
Infact I wouldn't doubt that the Sovereign runs into the same problem that the constitution refit ran into.

They refit the constitution in Motion Picture and suddenly two movies later a really awesome ship comes out and we never see anothere refit class again.

Sovereign will be the same way. Sisko's team did an INCREDIBLE job on those crystals. The amount of power they're channeling is awesome and it's Dilythium too....the crystal that channels the amazing power of the warp core. Really it's the only crystal that could. There's no way the Sovereign could match the Defiants Power....

Why on Earth would the Federation make Sovereigns for defense and offense when the Defiant does it stunningly wel...

The feds needed something with good shields and weapons. A 'battleship' for example, the defiant is somewhat unique, although at some point it is stated that later defiants, including the Sao Paulo did not have ablative armour.

Plus the fact that the Defiant got it's ass kicked by the borg...

I do believe that a single Sovy could destroy a defiant, but a squad of defiants is another story...

[FoolFromHell]

Thought of something. The Imperials are complete retards.When Luke and the rebels were going down the "valley" towards the exhaust port in EP IV, why didnt the Death Star move 2 degrees to its side so the side of the "valley" slams into the X-Wings? Would take minimal effort and would save the Death Star for relatively little damage...

[Saquist]

The feds needed something with good shields and weapons. A 'battleship' for example, the defiant is somewhat unique, although at some point it is stated that later defiants, including the Sao Paulo did not have ablative armour.

Plus the fact that the Defiant got it's ass kicked by the borg...

I do believe that a single Sovy could destroy a defiant, but a squad of defiants is another story...

Actually....

The Entire Fleet got it's butt kicked and Defiant lasted the longest.
Remeber what system they first reported the Borg Cube in? That's a good 60 to 70 lightyears from Earth near DEEP SPACE FOUR AND FIVE toward the core of the Galaxy.

Enterprise had enough time to travel to the Neutral Zone and back to Earth. It takes a Week to travel that distance or more. Defiant likely had to come from Deep Space Nine and intercepted the Cube as it reached Earth.

THIS had to be awsome warp fight as the fleet attemted to destroy the CUBE before it reached Earth.

Look at the way the cube was just destroying ships with it's tractor beam...that was incredible.... Defiant took it and kept comming.

The biggest diservice they did was not show us the fight.

[Kittamaru]

Yes, I agree but the Defiant does the same Job...but 600% better.
Infact I wouldn't doubt that the Sovereign runs into the same problem that the constitution refit ran into.

They refit the constitution in Motion Picture and suddenly two movies later a really awesome ship comes out and we never see anothere refit class again.

Sovereign will be the same way. Sisko's team did an INCREDIBLE job on those crystals. The amount of power they're channeling is awesome and it's Dilythium too....the crystal that channels the amazing power of the warp core. Really it's the only crystal that could. There's no way the Sovereign could match the Defiants Power....

Why on Earth would the Federation make Sovereigns for defense and offense when the Defiant does it stunningly wel..

Over time I came to like the Akira a little. it was at least unique and didn't fly in the face of all the rules of starship creation. The Akira's 15 torp tubes makes it a very good long range starship.

Simple answers to your question:

The Defiants warp core is, actually, a modified varient of the Sovereign class warp core.

The Defiant has a very limited maximum range - due to it's small size, it only carries enough "fuel" for about a 3 month journey, where the Sovereign doesn't EVER have to dock for supplies thanks to it's enhanced bussard collectors, high-efficiency warp core, and stunning replicator facilities (it is the ONLY class of ship able to replicate Quantum torpedoes)

The Sovereign has a much higher warp output than the Defiant, being as it uses the Class 7 reactor. The reason for this (or rather, the NEED for it) stems from the regenerative shielding system - the warp core on the Galaxy class was, simply put, unable to handle it. The class 7 of the Sovvy puts out almost 500% more power than the Galaxy's class 6, and almost 75% more power than the Defiants class 8's (yes, plural), yet it is almost 24% more efficient than the Galaxy class core, and over 58% more efficient than the Defiant's core.

Also, the Sovereign has a MUCH larger effective range, thanks to it's massive torpedo compliment and incredible phaser arcs. Pulse phasers are close range weapons.

Finally, and perhaps most impressively, the Sovereign can actually replace it's warp core whilst on it's own. It has one (yes, just one) spare core. Proof of this is in Insurrection... they managed to get back to Picard and co on warp speed... even though they ejected the core. So either it can power the warp drives without the main power core (a very impressive feat) or it can replace the core on it's own (just as impressive).

[Hellblade8]

Hmm, I'll have to watch the movie again, but I'm sure they didn't come in at warp speed. Also, there is the fact that ships can achieve warp speed without the warpcore, thanks to secondary systems. It's possible that's what the Enterprise was working with, although that doesn't rule out a secondary matter/antimatter power source, but the Enterprise E having a secondary warpcore lying around is somewhat impossible.

Acutally, now that I think about it, I suppose they could have just replicated the pieces and then poured in the antimatter from the photon torpedoes.

But again, more likely they were using something else other than a warpcore.

[Kittamaru]

Hmm, I'll have to watch the movie again, but I'm sure they didn't come in at warp speed. Also, there is the fact that ships can achieve warp speed without the warpcore, thanks to secondary systems. It's possible that's what the Enterprise was working with, although that doesn't rule out a secondary matter/antimatter power source, but the Enterprise E having a secondary warpcore lying around is somewhat impossible.

Acutally, now that I think about it, I suppose they could have just replicated the pieces and then poured in the antimatter from the photon torpedoes.

But again, more likely they were using something else other than a warpcore.

Most ships cannot attain warp without the warp core - I believe only the smaller ships can due to the low power requirements, and then that's low warp.

And yes, they came in at warp, considering the distance from the Badlands to that planet...

[Hellblade8]

Most ships cannot attain warp without the warp core - I believe only the smaller ships can due to the low power requirements, and then that's low warp.

And yes, they came in at warp, considering the distance from the Badlands to that planet...

Well, I just watched the movie again, and La Forge said at one point that they were fresh out of warpcores, so I don't think they had a spare anywhere. Also, during the battle in the Briar Patch (where it occured, this wasn't the badlands), they were having trouble moving at even Full Impulse. So I find it somewhat unlikely that they were coming in at warp, although I'm sure they would have been able to achieve warp via secondary systems. Of course, this would also bring into question why they didn't do it when the warpcore went off line when they fought Shinzon, but I suppose the large warship firing photons on them might have had something to do with that.

But yes, it was proven in TOS that UFP ships can create a warp field with their impulse engines if I recall correctly.

[USS Athens]

Actually....

The Entire Fleet got it's butt kicked and Defiant lasted the longest.
Remeber what system they first reported the Borg Cube in? That's a good 60 to 70 lightyears from Earth near DEEP SPACE FOUR AND FIVE toward the core of the Galaxy.

Enterprise had enough time to travel to the Neutral Zone and back to Earth. It takes a Week to travel that distance or more. Defiant likely had to come from Deep Space Nine and intercepted the Cube as it reached Earth.

THIS had to be awsome warp fight as the fleet attemted to destroy the CUBE before it reached Earth.

Look at the way the cube was just destroying ships with it's tractor beam...that was incredible.... Defiant took it and kept comming.

The biggest diservice they did was not show us the fight.

Proven your point, yes the battle had been going on for a while.

(What happened to the Bozeman in the fight?)

[Hellblade8]

Proven your point, yes the battle had been going on for a while.

(What happened to the Bozeman in the fight?)

Well, assuming it was the same ship from the TNG episode (which is unlikely), then it got assraped. In all likelyhood, it was probably a new incarnation of the Bozeman, so I'm guessing it could have either been destroyed, assimilated, disabled, or possibly one of the surviving ships in the battle.

[USS Athens]

Well, assuming it was the same ship from the TNG episode (which is unlikely), then it got assraped. In all likelyhood, it was probably a new incarnation of the Bozeman, so I'm guessing it could have either been destroyed, assimilated, disabled, or possibly one of the surviving ships in the battle.

USS Bozeman

[Kittamaru]

Well, I just watched the movie again, and La Forge said at one point that they were fresh out of warpcores, so I don't think they had a spare anywhere. Also, during the battle in the Briar Patch (where it occured, this wasn't the badlands), they were having trouble moving at even Full Impulse. So I find it somewhat unlikely that they were coming in at warp, although I'm sure they would have been able to achieve warp via secondary systems. Of course, this would also bring into question why they didn't do it when the warpcore went off line when they fought Shinzon, but I suppose the large warship firing photons on them might have had something to do with that.

But yes, it was proven in TOS that UFP ships can create a warp field with their impulse engines if I recall correctly.

yes, they were fresh out of warp cores - they didn't have a second core installed and ready to power up and eject.

They can install a second core... they don't have a second core already installed and ready to online.

[Saquist]

yes, they were fresh out of warp cores - they didn't have a second core installed and ready to power up and eject.

They can install a second core... they don't have a second core already installed and ready to online.

okay...

Simple answers to your question:

The Defiants warp core is, actually, a modified varient of the Sovereign class warp core.

The Defiant has a very limited maximum range - due to it's small size, it only carries enough "fuel" for about a 3 month journey, where the Sovereign doesn't EVER have to dock for supplies thanks to it's enhanced bussard collectors, high-efficiency warp core, and stunning replicator facilities (it is the ONLY class of ship able to replicate Quantum torpedoes)

The Sovereign has a much higher warp output than the Defiant, being as it uses the Class 7 reactor. The reason for this (or rather, the NEED for it) stems from the regenerative shielding system - the warp core on the Galaxy class was, simply put, unable to handle it. The class 7 of the Sovvy puts out almost 500% more power than the Galaxy's class 6, and almost 75% more power than the Defiants class 8's (yes, plural), yet it is almost 24% more efficient than the Galaxy class core, and over 58% more efficient than the Defiant's core.

Also, the Sovereign has a MUCH larger effective range, thanks to it's massive torpedo compliment and incredible phaser arcs. Pulse phasers are close range weapons.

Finally, and perhaps most impressively, the Sovereign can actually replace it's warp core whilst on it's own. It has one (yes, just one) spare core. Proof of this is in Insurrection... they managed to get back to Picard and co on warp speed... even though they ejected the core. So either it can power the warp drives without the main power core (a very impressive feat) or it can replace the core on it's own (just as impressive).

It was stated in interview...Berman or Branna that the Defiant's core was the similar output of a Galaxy class vessel. Defiant was created and developed first before the Sovereign so the Core of the Sovereign is likely a Defiant Variant especially since Defiants core had a shield and so did Sovereigns. so they have a similiar design but Defiant was the primary and Sovereign was likely the upgrade.

I never put those two together untill now...

[Kittamaru]

Yes and no - the OUTPUT of the Defiant is almost as much as that of the Galaxy class. The core, though, is a modification of the Sovereign core. Yes, it was launched first... it's also a lot smaller. However, the Sovereign program was in development for a LONG while. The Defiant was built as a "mini sovereign", able to be immediately deployed to combat the Borg and the Dominion.

[halo07guy]

I do question the "based on real science" claim made by B. How can time travel be based off real science? How can a weapon thats partially in another dimension be based off real-science? How can a beam weapon move slower then light? How can a machine that teleports people do so without destroying the soul and conscious, any non-physical part of a person, in the process? You can transport the brain, but what about the mind? The mind isn't physical. Its not made of atoms. Its just the result of electrical impulses. What if you disrupt those impulses? You can't copy them. So what do you do then?

As you can probably tell, I'm very opposed to the development of teleporters for sentient things. I'm afraid it might take away our sentience. I heard that they managed to teleport an atom, but thats a non-living object. Can they do it to a dog without killing the dog?