View Poll Results: Which universe would win?

Voters
670. This poll is closed
  • Star Trek

    227 33.88%
  • Star Wars

    285 42.54%
  • Spaceballs

    51 7.61%
  • Farscape

    14 2.09%
  • Dune

    54 8.06%
  • Stargate

    39 5.82%

Thread: Star Wars vs Star Trek

  1. #6581
    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Small problem side effect of Warp field is NO MASS. Menaing those projectiles would do 0 damage. Besides as we have seen the Photons drop to sublight well before impacting. Not only that but Warp has NO INERTIA.
    Unfortunately, you are wrong there.
    Making something drop from warp without the correct countermeasures makes it extremely unstable, but traveling at said speeds.

    Hell, at Maximum Impulse, ramming a ship against a planet would produce a similar (if not more effective) effect.

  2. #6582
    Im damn tired of this again. Gonna ignore Scott.

  3. #6583
    Very Special Senior Member USS Athens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by halo07guy View Post
    No, Enterprise-B we have not established it becuase it is false. Get that through your head. Thet are shielded, your just nit-picking to find examples where the shields were down and using that as "proof" that they weren't shielded. Think with your head, not your ass.
    But why would they be down? No signs of any pre-liminary damage to the event? Seeing the effect that CIS weapons do to a Rep cruiser, we surely would have seen something. So the sheilds hadn't just buckled and then CIS stopped attacking. And internal damage was suffered and you can't deny that. So they have sheilds that don't protect the hull/crew? That's what sheilds are for!
    Last edited by USS Athens; 08-05-07 at 11:36 AM.

  4. #6584
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoolFromHell View Post
    Unfortunately, you are wrong there.
    Making something drop from warp without the correct countermeasures makes it extremely unstable, but traveling at said speeds.

    Hell, at Maximum Impulse, ramming a ship against a planet would produce a similar (if not more effective) effect.
    Actually, I am correct, in True Q they were going to lighten the mass of the moon using the warp field. Not only that but Nemesis proves you wrong. Once warp cuts out the Enterprise drops to sublight, very slow sublight as it was almost still before it went to warp.

    As for crashing a ship into the planet first you have to figure the damage to the ship from hitting the damn atmosphere. There isn't going to be much of a ship left against an Earth-like atmosphere.

  5. #6585
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    Quote Originally Posted by USS Enterprise-B View Post
    But why would they be down? No signs of any pre-liminary damage to the event? Seeing the effect that CIS weapons do to a Rep cruiser, we surely would have seen something. So the sheilds hadn't just buckled and then CIS stopped attacking. And internal damage was suffered and you can't deny that. So if they do have sheilds they don't protect the hull/crew? That's what sheilds are for!
    Actually watch it again there are signs of damage on both, just not heavy damage. It is possible that both ships had managed to take mostly light damage thanks to luck and the shields going out only recently. Neither ship was pristine after all, just managed to take only minor damage until then. Besides the Supreme Chancellor was on that vessel. Jedi commanders would have made sure that Invisible Hand's shields were down, but that it was largely unharmed.
    Last edited by TW Scott; 08-05-07 at 12:18 AM.

  6. #6586
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    Until it tore in half anyway. ST is good for humor, and prospects of life on other planets, and the unfortunately unrealistic dream of a utopia. Sw is good for lots and lots and lots of drama, and some of the best music ever composed (Besides Lux Aeterna by Clint Mansell).

    SW is not classified as a Science Fantasy. Its called a space opera.

    And TW does have a point about what you are saying, FFH. If they fought the way you say they do how come we never see it on screen. I bet that if someone were to make a video that has everything you say they do, it would look very distant from what we see in the show. I mean, dozens of ships flying around at C+ shooting phasers at each other, dogfighting like WW2 planes, photon torpedos flying every which way and compleatly destroying ships, planets and moons in one hit, as well as the torpedos firing every 6 seconds or so and always hitting thier target, ships hitting a moon and coming through it on the other side, and beaming away the crew and parts of the hull, as well as critical systems. If they fought the way you say they do, then it would look nothing like the show we've seen.

  7. #6587
    Quote Originally Posted by halo07guy View Post
    If they fought the way you say they do how come we never see it on screen. I bet that if someone were to make a video that has everything you say they do, it would look very distant from what we see in the show. I mean, dozens of ships flying around at C+ shooting phasers at each other, dogfighting like WW2 planes, photon torpedos flying every which way and compleatly destroying ships, planets and moons in one hit, as well as the torpedos firing every 6 seconds or so and always hitting thier target, ships hitting a moon and coming through it on the other side, and beaming away the crew and parts of the hull, as well as critical systems. If they fought the way you say they do, then it would look nothing like the show we've seen.
    They have done it.
    #1: They dont use Phasers at Warp fights. They only use Torpedos
    #2: They do fight that way, and they show a close-up of one ship firing, then at another ship thats on the receiving end. As I said, in the episode Equinox, Voyager was at max warp and took out the Engines of teh Equinox at 40,000+ Miles.
    #3: People from ST have been known to be beamed away in the heat of battle. ST species knows how to block the beaming, but can be caught unawares.
    #4: Coordinating dozens of ships at C is pretty damned impossible. But one ship can easily do it.
    #5: A ship at 75%c and that weighs a 2,060,000 KGs or more since it obviously does, can cause extinction if rammed against a planet. The Dinosaur-Extinction meteor was only 10km across and made of rock... a ST vessel would have shields and alloys that are extremely durable.

  8. #6588
    Very Special Senior Member USS Athens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Actually watch it again there are signs of damage on both, just not heavy damage. It is possible that both ships had managed to take mostly light damage thanks to luck and the shields going out only recently. Neither ship was pristine after all, just managed to take only minor damage until then. Besides the Supreme Chancellor was on that vessel. Jedi commanders would have made sure that <i>Invisible Hand</i>'s shields were down, but that it was largely unharmed.
    No no no... I'm refering to the Rep. Cruiser.

  9. #6589
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    Yes, but compile it into one big video of a single battle, and you get something that looks nothing like ST. I mean were we to go with what your saying, and you'd have caps moving like fighters, rolling and manuevaring like a squirrel thats had too much sugar, photons blowing everything up, and people disappearing all over the place only to reappear on the windshield. What your describing would look nothing like what we've seen. I would prefer to use something that has a 100&#37; chance of hitting (aka Phasers) rather then something that only hits about 80% of the time.

    And a question, when a ship explodes and the warp field fails, then why doesn't the explosion and debris become infintely massive?

  10. #6590
    Very Special Senior Member USS Athens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by halo07guy View Post
    Until it tore in half anyway. ST is good for humor, and prospects of life on other planets, and the unfortunately unrealistic dream of a utopia. Sw is good for lots and lots and lots of drama, and some of the best music ever composed (Besides Lux Aeterna by Clint Mansell).

    SW is not classified as a Science Fantasy. Its called a space opera.

    And TW does have a point about what you are saying, FFH. If they fought the way you say they do how come we never see it on screen. I bet that if someone were to make a video that has everything you say they do, it would look very distant from what we see in the show. I mean, dozens of ships flying around at C+ shooting phasers at each other, dogfighting like WW2 planes, photon torpedos flying every which way and compleatly destroying ships, planets and moons in one hit, as well as the torpedos firing every 6 seconds or so and always hitting thier target, ships hitting a moon and coming through it on the other side, and beaming away the crew and parts of the hull, as well as critical systems. If they fought the way you say they do, then it would look nothing like the show we've seen.
    Uh, no the fights and the music are quite better (in my opinion) than SW.
    DS9: 'Sacrifice of Angels'
    Last edited by USS Athens; 08-04-07 at 11:58 PM.

  11. #6591
    Wait a sec.
    How the hell will you fight Species 8472?
    Each bioship has the power of 1/8 the deathstar...
    (8 Bioships to blow up a planet)

  12. #6592
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoolFromHell View Post
    Wait a sec.
    How the hell will you fight Species 8472?
    Each bioship has the power of 1/8 the deathstar...
    (8 Bioships to blow up a planet)
    It took seven bioships and one special ship to create an gigantic explosion on a borg indutrialized world. Even then we did not see if the results were similiar to DS or not. We have no idea how much of the energy was provided by the center ship of if perhaps the center ship was a one shot device. We see no repeats of this and we didn't see them use it against a shielded world.

    In other words pure speculation.

  13. #6593
    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    It took seven bioships and one special ship to create an gigantic explosion on a borg indutrialized world. Even then we did not see if the results were similiar to DS or not. We have no idea how much of the energy was provided by the center ship of if perhaps the center ship was a one shot device. We see no repeats of this and we didn't see them use it against a shielded world.

    In other words pure speculation.
    Damn it scott. NO SHIELD ANYWHERE CAN STOP SOMETHING CAPABLE OF DESTROYING A PLANET.
    Are you RETARDED?
    Any of you SW fans want to disregard him for this? You see something on ST and its false. Of course. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT ALDERAAN HAD A SHIELD? How do you know that a Death Star can overcome that shield?
    Exactly. NO DAMN PROOF.
    I DAMN GIVE UP. ******* IDIOTS LIKE YOU CANT BE CURED.

    Voyager survived hits from something that had the power to team up with only 7 others of its kind to blow up a planet. But NO! Its PURE DAMN SPECULATION.

    <Scott Mode>
    its pure speculation that the Death Star blew up the planet. How do you know that it want a natural implosion caused by all the atoms of the planet simultaneously disintegrating? Its completely possible! The chances may be larger than 1 in every single atom in the universe, BUT YOU HAVE NO PROOF ITS NOT. </Scott Mode>
    Last edited by FoolFromHell; 08-05-07 at 12:29 AM.

  14. #6594
    TO ALL SANE PEOPLE.
    8 Bioships can blow up a planet, which requires IMMENSE ENERGY.
    Voyager can survive atleast 1 hit from a Bioship.
    THUS: ST Shields can withstand 1/8 the power generated by the Death Star's main beam.
    Rendering ALL SW WEAPONS INEFFECTIVE vs. ST Shields except the Death Star I, II, the Tarkin, and a few other super-weapons which are clearly not in abundance.
    Thankyouverymuch.

  15. #6595
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoolFromHell View Post
    They have done it.
    In your wildest dreams

    #1: They dont use Phasers at Warp fights. They only use Torpedos
    Yes and said torpedos do far less damage at warp then they do at sublight. Witness in Nemesis, The Scimitar fires several photon torpedoes on criticla shots while the Enterprise the traveling with it's shields down. The Torpedos do little damage and only knocks the ship ouit of warp, as opposed to blowing the ship a new one.

    #2: They do fight that way, and they show a close-up of one ship firing, then at another ship thats on the receiving end. As I said, in the episode Equinox, Voyager was at max warp and took out the Engines of teh Equinox at 40,000+ Miles.
    From WIKI
    Voyager receives a hail from the Starship Equinox, and Janeway immediately decides to go investigate. When Voyager reaches the Equinox they find it in bad shape, and a hail from the ship’s captain, Rudy Ransom, pleads with them to extend their shields around his ship. Upon accomplishing this, Janeway goes on an away mission with Seven of Nine and a few others to find out how and why another Federation ship ended up in the Delta Quadrant. When they beam aboard the Equinox, they find it in pretty poor shape. A scan of one of the corpses on the bridge reveals that they were attacked by some entity that was able to affect them on a cellular level. After searching the Equinox further, they find a few survivors as well as a heavily modified ship’s engine. The battered crew of the Equinox are surprised that there are other Starfleet officers in the Delta Quadrant, having thought themselves to be the only ones in that region of space.

    Following a funeral held on Voyager for those who died on the Equinox, Janeway announces that the Equinox’s crew will be joining Voyager, at least until repairs on the Equinox can be completed. The new members of Voyager acquaint themselves with Voyager and its crew, and start the process of attempting to repair the Equinox, which Chakotay estimates will take a few weeks.

    Scans by Seven of Nine reveal that the aliens that had attacked the Equinox are weakening Voyager’s shield. Estimates point out that Voyager’s shields will run out in under two days, so Janeway and the others begin to plot an offensive tactic to scare off the nucleogenic lifeforms. While Janeway and the Equinox’s captain discuss personal leadership styles – ranging from maintaining protocol to willingness to break the Prime Directive.

    The nucleogenic lifeforms begin attacking a single portion of Voyager’s shields, and consequently break through the shields far earlier than expected. In a staff meeting, Seven of Nine and Janeway reveal that they have found a way to protect the ship against the aliens, having created a technology that will instantly trap them. Janeway and the other captain have a confrontation over whether or not the Equinox’s crew should abandon their ship and defensive efforts be focused solely on Voyager. Chakotay and Harry Kim set about the process of stripping Equinox of anything useful and with the help of the Equinox’s crew, begin to compile a list of useful materials. Meanwhile, the members of the Equinox have a secret meeting, during which it becomes clear that they plan to steal Voyager’s technology, return to the Equinox, and leave Voyager behind. Seven of Nine discovers that the crew of the Equinox are intentionally preventing access to a particular part of the ship, so Janeway opts to send the in the Doctor to investigate.

    The Doctor finds that the crew of the Equinox was actually harvesting the aliens that had been attacking the ship in order to convert them into a source of power. Meanwhile, the crew of the Equinox begin final preparations for taking Voyager’s technology when they are apprehended by Voyager security forces. In an exchange between Janeway and the other captain, it is revealed that he and his crew killed 63 different aliens in order to harvest energy. Janeway relieves the other captain of his position and confines all four crewmen to their quarters. Janeway attempts to make peace with the alien life forms by taking the Equinox’s engines offline. The Doctor heads to the Equinox’s medical bay and after finding himself unable to decrypt a particular file, activates the Equinox’s EMH. The EMH announces that he knew all about the crews actions because he designed them. Before the Doctor can react, he removes the mobile holo emitter from the Doctor.

    While the aliens step up their attacks on Voyager, the EMH from the Equinox impersonates the Doctor and sneaks two phasers to the Equinox crew. The Equinox crew breaks free and transports to the Equinox’s bridge. With time running out for Voyager, Janeway makes a plea to the Equinox and its crew to stop and threatens to open fire. The Equinox crew uses their transporter's to steal Voyager's shield generator, protecting the Equinox while exposing Voyager to the alien attacks. (End of episode part 1)

    (Beginning of episode part 2)

    Voyager takes heavy damage and suffers two fatalities in the first wave of the alien’s attack. The Equinox, with the knowledge that Voyager is under attack, continues its course back to the Alpha Quadrant While recovering from the first wave, it becomes clear that the EMH from the Equinox is still aboard Voyager. He attempts to blend in and starts to tend to the wounded. On the Equinox, the captain attempts to convince Seven of Nine to join his crew, but she is unwilling to join. The begin to treat Seven’s injuries and find the Doctor in the medical bay, who is informed that he too is a captive. When the Equinox attempts to bring its enhanced warp drives online, they find the drive has been encoded. Following Seven’s unwillingness to divulge the codes, the crew of the Equinox deletes the Doctor’s ethical subroutines so that he will probe Seven’s mind for the answers.

    Janeway attempts to convince the aliens that Voyager is not a threat, but the aliens either do not understand or do not care. Chakotay questions Janeway’s desire to hunt down the Equinox, and she announces that she will do whatever it takes to bring the captain of the Equinox to justice. The Equinox hides in a region of space in which it will be harder to find them. The Doctor, now a bona fide psychopath, begins to probe Seven’s mind for the codes, but is going to destroy her mind in the process. The captain makes an impassioned plea for Seven to divulge the codes of her own volition, but she is again unwilling to do so.

    Janeway begins her search for the Equinox and studies the captain’s biography to discern what his next course of action will be. They find the Equinox, and after taking out the away team, the EMH on Voyager warns his captain that Janeway has discovered them, and both sides prepare for battle. They do a fair amount of damage to each other before Voyager completely disables the Equinox’s weaponry. They flee and Voyager follows, but must ultimately break off their pursuit . While the Equinox jumps to warp, Voyager must stop to make repairs. Janeway begins a somewhat questionable interrogation of the captured Equinox crew. Chakotay objects and rescues the crewman – which deeply affects their relationship. Janeway temporarily relieves him of duty and continues in her efforts to find the Equinox via the aliens that initially introduced the Equinox to the nucleogenic lifeforms. When they are finally able to establish communication with the aliens, Janeway eventually convinces them to stop attacking Voyager if she will give them the Equinox – she agrees.

    The Doctor continues in his dissection of Seven’s brain, and the stress of killing begins to take its toll on the Equinox’s captain. The captain decides that it is time to give themselves up, but his first officer sets a mutiny in motion and prepares to attack Voyager. The first officer contacts the EMH to sabotage Voyager from within. The now deposed captain contacts Voyager and transports most of the crew to Voyager. The Doctor comes back to Voyager’s medical bay and deletes the rogue EMH and informs the Equinox that they will no longer have help. The Equinox’s captain disables shields and the nucleogenic lifeforms move in for the kill. To protect Voyager from the Equinox’s explosion, the captain pilots it alone to a safe distance. Janeway reinstates Chakotay to first in command and the Doctor confirms that no permanent damage was done to Seven, who harbors no ill will towards him. Janeway strips the rank of all the former members of Equinox, but integrates them into her crew, although with severe restrictions.
    Strange but I don't see any mention of Voyager taking out the engines of the Equinox.....

    #3: People from ST have been known to be beamed away in the heat of battle. ST species knows how to block the beaming, but can be caught unawares.
    Uhmmm, what the hell are you talking about. I have never seen a starship use transporters to rid itself of boarding parties. Hell they aren't even smart enough to turn up the lights against a race that hates bright light.


    #4: Coordinating dozens of ships at C is pretty damned impossible. But one ship can easily do it.
    Actually cordinating dozen of ships at C should be damed easy for computers.

    #5: A ship at 75%c and that weighs a 2,060,000 KGs or more since it obviously does, can cause extinction if rammed against a planet. The Dinosaur-Extinction meteor was only 10km across and made of rock... a ST vessel would have shields and alloys that are extremely durable.
    If asteroid you desribe was 10km across and made on nickel-iron and rock. it was coming in at rough .25c by some estimates. 10km of nickle-iron and rock would weight several thousand times what even a Federation Sovereign class starship would. Not to mention that impacting the atmosphere at .75c would destroy the Sovereign's shields, and cuase the front of the ship to melt and crush in rapid order. It would be a spectacular explosion as the Warp core breached in atmosphere. Resulting in, at best, a few hundred gigatons in atmosphere.

  16. #6596
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoolFromHell View Post
    Damn it scott. NO SHIELD ANYWHERE CAN STOP SOMETHING CAPABLE OF DESTROYING A PLANET.
    Are you RETARDED?
    Any of you SW fans want to disregard him for this? You see something on ST and its false. Of course. HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT ALDERAAN HAD A SHIELD? How do you know that a Death Star can overcome that shield?
    Exactly. NO DAMN PROOF.
    I DAMN GIVE UP. ******* IDIOTS LIKE YOU CANT BE CURED.
    Actually we do have proof and it has been point out several times. First is novelization. Novels hold that major planets have plantetary shields that can protect them form any conventional bombardment. Secondary is the visuals of the planetary destruction scene in ANH. You can clearly see a a green shimmer spread rapidly across global curvature and suddenly stop as if it hit brick wall. Thos tweo things are all we need, the shields existed. Not only did they exist but they were powerful enough to protect Alderaan even from KT even type asteroids or possible moon drops.


    Voyager survived hits from something that had the power to team up with only 7 others of its kind to blow up a planet. But NO! Its PURE DAMN SPECULATION.
    First of all the standard bioships teamed up with six others and a special ship in the center tha was obviously not the same. Watch the scene and you will see that I am right.

    Keep watching it. The beam hist the planet and explodes instant, not surprising as Borg prefer an atmosphere saturated with methane. However we are no able to see if this is a just a surface explosion or the entire planet breaking up. We don't know how much energy the normal bioships lent, or if perhaps the beams were simply targeting and control information. We are not told anything.

    However, I will point out that if the Bioshi[p fired on Voyager and Voyager survived intact, by all canon information the Bioship must have been emitting less that 12 billion gigawats per second. Meaning quite likely the majority of power came from the special ship the other seven fired into. Since we did not see that done again, It might ver well have been a rare type of armament that is only used in offes. I will also point out that Species 8472 only goes on the offensive when invaded. You can't make a race act against it's very nature.

  17. #6597
    Very Special Senior Member USS Athens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Strange but I don't see any mention of Voyager taking out the engines of the Equinox.....



    Uhmmm, what the hell are you talking about. I have never seen a starship use transporters to rid itself of boarding parties. Hell they aren't even smart enough to turn up the lights against a race that hates bright light.
    1: Yes they did, I've seen a picture.

    2: You forget that Feds are good problem solvers, if they don't do some thing it's usaually for a good reason. And what about the lights?

  18. #6598
    Very Special Senior Member USS Athens's Avatar
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    Voyager destroys the Equinox port warp nacelle, and the ship falls out of warp, leaking plasma. Voyager continues to pursue, still firing its weapons. The EMH transmits the shield frequency to Burke. Voyager moves in, preparing to engage a tractor beam, while Burke manages to fire torpedoes through the shields. Despite Tuvok rotating the shield frequency every ten seconds, Voyager suffers extensive damage, losing many weapons arrays and the impulse drive. Ransom suddenly hails the ship and offers to surrender, saying he can transport the Equinox crew to Voyager, and Janeway agrees. She tells her crew, who are amazed at their captain's sudden change in attitude, that Ransom is a Starfleet captain, even if he forgot that for a while. Memory Alpha

    Right here scott, destroyed the port warp nacelle.

  19. #6599
    Very Special Senior Member USS Athens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USS Enterprise-B View Post
    But why would they be down? No signs of any pre-liminary damage to the event? Seeing the effect that CIS weapons do to a Rep cruiser, we surely would have seen something. So the sheilds hadn't just buckled and then CIS stopped attacking. And internal damage was suffered and you can't deny that. So if they do have sheilds they don't protect the hull/crew? That's what sheilds are for!
    What I'm saying here is that since we know how much damage CIS weaponry does to Rep. Ships, we certainly would have seen some of the same damage on that cruiser as it pulled up.

  20. #6600
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    There is a diffrence between hitting armor and hitting the inside of the ship. It is the same as a tank hitting the fron of an Abrams with a shell and there being an explosion, but nary a scratch on it, and then a shell going through the hatch on the top and detonating inside. Armor has certain effects on weapons. Its not just firepower that matters. Its the armor that matters too. And your reasoning gives proof to it losing shields shortly before that broadside. And you have to remember, when you have a broadsid in which half the heavy guns are firing extreamly rapidly, about once every 1/2 second, then it is no surprise the shields were. The Munifcent- class frigates on the CIS side had powerful primary cannons that could blast met a small moon. If a ship got hit by that, of course its shields would be down.

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