Star Wars vs Star Trek

[TW Scott]

You obviously know absolutely nothing about AC/DC circuits, period.

Actually honestly you understand nothing about electrical power period. I just explained to you that Frequency is not dependant on electrical current. It is just not. Now we as people have set AC to a specific frequency becuase it works well, but that 50 hertz (US) can be as little as a miliamp to 440. the frequency is independant of the power.

And yes, I am 100% sure as it was the BEGINING OF THE ENGAGEMENT. Before he took any weapons fire, a single TIE got onto his six and blew him away. Given how pathetic a bucketheads aim is, this pilot MAY have been retarded enough NOT to raise his shields before battle... *rolls eyes*

Actually you are one hundred percent lying. In the beginning of the engagement the Fighters were taking the TIE's head on, in ROTJ. So obviously you inventing shit again.

[Fugu-dono]

A single Newtype in a Hi-Nu from M.S. Gundam would likely decimate all of the best Star Wars and Star Trek has to offer.

[Qui-Gon Jinn]

A single Newtype in a Hi-Nu from M.S. Gundam would likely decimate all of the best Star Wars and Star Trek has to offer.

who the hell are you and what do you mean your preshus gundam can not withstand the power of the empire

[TW Scott]

More than likely he has not seen Star Wars, so it is almost forgivable.

[Qui-Gon Jinn]

ya true you have a point scott

[Fugu-dono]

who the hell are you and what do you mean your preshus gundam can not withstand the power of the empire

Ah... but that's hardly an argument. Do you know the capabilities of a true Newtype pilot in top mobile suit in Universal Century MS Gundam. Actually the Turn A Gundam would probably wipe the floor of all Star Wars and Star Trek opponents. Know your stuff then come and argue sonnyjim.

Oh and I don't know who the hell you are either but this is an open forum for discussion no!? Be cool and don't a fool... Yoroshiku.

What's 'preshus'?

By the way I've seen enough of Star Wars and Star Trek ne. So don't go assuming I don't know anything. Cheers.

[Fettman]

Red shirts and B1s could beat all of the Gundam universe

[Fettman]

Mobile suits are as big waste of money, they die way to easy, oh and they only have the moon, earth and a few space stations they have no intergaltic travel or their "fleets" are maybe 20 ships and a few hundred MS.

[creeping_death]

Ah... but that's hardly an argument. Do you know the capabilities of a true Newtype pilot in top mobile suit in Universal Century MS Gundam. Actually the Turn A Gundam would probably wipe the floor of all Star Wars and Star Trek opponents. Know your stuff then come and argue sonnyjim.

...And then I suppose you woke up from you little dream? Speaking of an argument, you don't really seem to put up to much of an offense as to why or how Gundam could "wipe the floor" of all SW and ST opponents. As for seeing enough SW and ST I really don't know you Definition of "enough" but I would highly doubt it would make you much of an expert of any sort so how would you know whether or not Gundam would beat SW or ST?

[Fugu-dono]

...And then I suppose you woke up from you little dream? Speaking of an argument, you don't really seem to put up to much of an offense as to why or how Gundam could "wipe the floor" of all SW and ST opponents. As for seeing enough SW and ST I really don't know you Definition of "enough" but I would highly doubt it would make you much of an expert of any sort so how would you know whether or not Gundam would beat SW or ST?

Hmmm... it wasn't a dream ne (great argument by the way). But it might be your dream sonnyjim to think ST or SW weaponry would stack up. there's a good reason children and adults alike in Japan love these series you know. Some of the many Gundam series are admittingly not as good as other but the good ones it's a well crafted story and universe not unlike SW and ST ne.

Firstly mobile suits like Gundam are highly maneuvrable and has advantage close range. It has long range attacks too naturally. Anyhow now is the deathblow to you ST/SW buffs explained. The 'Turn A Gundam' I spoke about in particular has an attack called "Moonlight Butterfly". This attack spreads nanomachines across the vast area of space turning all technology in the area into sand. In other words any technology against it is practically useless. [SPOILER] In the Turn A Gundam series a plot reveals that relic Turn A Gundam once destroyed all technology on Earth hence destroying civilisation. The Turn X Gundam is capable of even similar capabilities being a supposedly superior model. Yes, yes I'm aware Borgs have nonotechnology too but is it this destructive? We're talking goodbye opposing technology here ne.

Newtype pilots from UC MS Gundam series like Camille Bidan or Amuro Ray would probably be greater than any Jedi as starfighters and all the more deadly in high capability mobile suits. You're probably wondering what the hell is a Newtype right? Well Newtype are theorized to be the next stage of human evolution in the fictional Gundam universe. The theory behind this metamorphosis is that in order to adapt to life in space, the human body evolved with heightened mental awareness. They have high degree of spatial awareness and are sensitive to the hostile intentions directed at them by others, allowing them to uncannily preemptively react to such dangers. That to me is greater than 'The Force' in SW just for example. I'll let you read the rest with link below to make it easier.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newtype
In other words a Newtype in a Hi-v Gundam for example they would be deadly. If a Newtype is to hypothetically sit in Turn A then no opponents is likely to have any chance whatsoever.

Well if want more info you should really dig them up yourselves ne. All I can say is the best on Gundam universe would indeed wipe the floor of ST and SW stuff.

As for that Fettman that said there's no intergalactic travel. You are absolutely right. Perhaps the only one so far with a decent argument. That said each series is only bound by it's own discovery of space, correct? But I'm talking about combat here.

*sigh* I would take you guys seriously but since you guys think I'm joking then why the hell should I take your blabbering seriously. Hehehe....

[Enterprise-D]

Are you a total nut? Okay to be a god you must cultivate followers. Otherwise you just a jerk with powers eg Titans, Norse Giant, Hindu Demons. part of the defining element of being a god is having followers. No follwers no godhood. Just the argument.

I will say this just once more simply to get the last word. Where is it stated that a god must have followers?

TW, Trek canon states Q is a god. It is enough. Give it up.

Also even in All good things Q was just shifting Picard through a timeline that was heavily damaged by Picards stupidity. Probably on a bet that he could get the humans to fix it without having to involve the Q. In this he just opened Picards awareness to how the Q see time, not as a stream but as a road.

Wrongo. He was shifting 'our' Picard's consciousness to his other physical bodies in three universes affected by an anti-time disruption. Yes the "barriers" were damaged, but remember a multiverse is born of different decisions at particular times. These universes were linked by Picard making the same bad decision three times in three different universes.

Finally it hardly matters as the Q will not involve themselves in any way in this conflict as it would be humans vs humans.

Incorrect again. Q will more than likely involve themselves because SW v ST represents a breach of universal barriers, the likes of which would throw the entire ST universe completely out of whack. And further you have no premise, since there has been no universal breach of that magnitude, you do not know what the Q will or will not involve themselves in, thus you cannot deign to dismiss them out of hand. Canon Trek has it that the Q are the guardians of the universe. Very simple. The Q are a possibility to consider.

PS, the Empire is not completely human. But you know that.

During the early days of the Dark Nest Crisis, Luke used the Force to generate a lifelike copy of the Jade Shadow to fool the attacking dartships. This usage of the Force was so extreme, Luke burnt out and his face was temporarily sunken and shriveled like Palpatine's. A year later Luke applied the same trick on the DR919a, by then Luke already mastered the technique and would no longer burn out.

Please reference the book if you can. I'll try to find it and have a look.

By the way it is hardly likely that Q created the Tribble, or Amanda created the puppies. Given how the Q interact with time they probably just reached to a point where their were tribbles or puppies and grabbed one.

Yes I knew you would say that. But guess what. YOU don't know. By visuals only, we have to assume that they caused these life forms to pop out of thin air.

Actually we know form the design it looked heavily reinforced. I do realize you know nothing of engineer, but even gradeschoolers could see that.

TW darling these barbs are getting you nowhere. You do not know what is heavily reinforced. The Senate buildings looked way thicker and stronger than these lava service stations.

Also the smelting buckets in AOTC were durasteel, as evidence by their heat resistnace and rustiness. If it can contain lesser molten metals that lave must have been much, much hotter.

Why?

However the duel may have started way up there, but soon enought they were less than a two meter above the lava. Just try an tell me it is eighty there

I don't know what the temperature was, but by visuals only, since neither combatant, nor the service stations computer screens indicated the radiating temperature, YOU don't know either. YOU cannot assume that it was 2000 degrees, and by visuals only you cannot know

No, the argument i told you was that a stellar body radiates energy in absolutley every direction. To assume that the Delta Flyer was facing all that energy is just irrational unless the Delta Flyer had the anomally inside of it.

The Delta Flyer flew to the core of the anomaly. It is reasonable to assume that they faced close to the Terajoule rating that Janeway quoted. Yes it radiates in every direction, but since we can't tell via visuals, we must go on Janeway's quote and assume the Delta Flyer's shields were prepared to withstand UP to 30M Terajoules of energy.

No, not much proof, but I do have speculation. Can't just claim 110 or even 459. Anakins skin and body fat caught fire, as well as his clothes which even the lightsaber could not ignite.

Ah yes...how could I forget that. Then you can only assume a temperature that is capable of burning skin. Plus, since he was unable to stop the lava from destroying him, it is even less impressive.

Okay, I was agreeing that Q was doing that, however he was not at the same time reflecting FTL dust and debris.

True...

Circumstantial? You call a MAJOR EVENT like that circumstantial. No, No, No, circumstantial would be "It looks like a different dimension." The rules of reality sudfdenly being different ios a MAJOR thing.

Its magnitude does not belie the fact that it is circumstantial

Okay, I am saying that since we do not know why a subspace tear destroys vessels. As at least one shuttle has been in subspace and survived, I would think perhaps it is the warp drive that is effected. But since we have no concrete evidence it is all conjecture.

I will grant that very sparingly since the incident you speak of is not a subspace rip. The anomaly is a funnel, plus Paris' shuttle was indeed experiencing structural difficulty in any event.

Actually we have belief that can resist any laser based weaponry of certain backwards cultures. However since Laser only seems to apply to SW weaponry in name rather than effect the point is moot.

Actually, I have every right to use it, but I consider it a gift. Especially since a single HTL out powers a entire Galaxy class Starship warp core ~60 to 1.

I will not concede this point.

Okay, any scene were they are fired. You can see they are slower than light, visible in space and have a physical impact as well as recoil.

You can see to measure the speed of light? No matter tho...the only thing that causes me to pause on the laser bit is the fact that the ships are able to dodge very effectively.

SW movies do not have to support EU, merely not contradict it.

The EU is the lower canon. The correct statement is that the EU should not be in contradiction with the SW movies, where it is in contradiction the SW movie prevails.

Except this Asteroid field was known for it's heavily metal concentration and lack of ice. it was the collision of two planets after all.

Which two planets? There are planets that are iced over you know.

However i did not say Visuals only, I said Visuals override Dialog. If the crew says it should happen but doesn't it means the crew was wrong.

In this regard I reference your quote here:

Actually you hear numerous references to fighter shields and the Falcon's shields, as well as the corvette that prought Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon to the Trade Federation Freighter. You hear about the shields of the trade Federation ship, and on ISD's......

Since you state visuals override dialog, we can ignore any verbal references to shields, and since we consistently SEE gunfire hitting the hulls of various ships, we can conclude that either Wars ships have no shields or the shields are useless for battle.

[Saquist]

You do realize that the vessel had been under fire for quite some time, in fact all the ships were. The battle had been raging long enough to Obi-Wan to concoct and organize a plan, prep Anakin, prep their fighters, prep the ARC team supporting them. Hell Ankin had not even been on world when the seperatists attacked as witnessed by Padme not seeing him in months. It is quite probable the shields had already been battered into oblivion.

Not true. Accordian to the Storyline that flows from Clone Wars which is canon...The battle had just been engaged.

There was no sign of shields in the Clone Wars and no sign shields in the opening of Revenge of the Sith. You're Lying to make up for Star Wars mistakes.

[Fettman]

Fugu-dono I have to say MS would do alright in close combat but they lack the long range most ST and ST ships have they use alot of bullets which can be destroyed by def lasers and phasers, you have one planet, take that out and you really cant do that much with your space stations can you? So all the feds need to do is start blasting you with Photon torps and all the Empire needs to do is shoot you once with a Super laser be it from the Death star or from the Eclipse. If you can give more info on why Gundam would win then I will listen.

[Kittamaru]

Actually honestly you understand nothing about electrical power period. I just explained to you that Frequency is not dependant on electrical current. It is just not. Now we as people have set AC to a specific frequency becuase it works well, but that 50 hertz (US) can be as little as a miliamp to 440. the frequency is independant of the power.

Yet I can set up a single capacitive circuit using a parallel series of resistor and capacitor and show how the frequency would change dependent upon voltage input. Yes it CAN be independent, but a lot of the time it isn't, given the inefficient NATURE of AC power. After all, AC is base ZERO voltage (half +vpp half -vpp) due to it's ALTERNATING nature. Hence why it must be rectified before our appliances can use it.

Actually you are one hundred percent lying. In the beginning of the engagement the Fighters were taking the TIE's head on, in ROTJ. So obviously you inventing shit again.

I said I wasn't 100% sure which movie it was, but I know in one of them (the one with the B-wings and X-wings) one of the X-wings was destroyed in a single shot.

bah

[Kittamaru]

Scott, you have dug yourself a very deep grave.

If Visuals overrule Dialogue, we can safely say SW ships, at least their more manuverable ones, have NO SHIELDS. X-wings, A-Wings, B-Wings, Y-Wings, TIE fighters, TIE-Bombers, TIE-Intercetors, Phantom-TIE, TIE-X1-5, Millenium Falcon. No shields.

Corvettes, gunboats, skippers, skipray blastboats, star destroyers, correlian cruisers, no shields.

All thanks to SEEING shots impact the hull.

They may no cause damage, but they don't show any obvious impact upon the shields. Thus, no shields.

So, Scott, if you want to continue to uphold your visuals > dialogue bullshit, go right ahead. But that just makes SW that much weaker.

[halo07guy]

Actually, there is some video proof of SW shields.Whenever something hits a SW shield, it doesn't have that whole section of shield flare up and become visible for a few seconds. You still see the shield, but only in the form of a bright flash, which lasts only a fraction of second, but its still visible temporarily. Starfighter impacts against a shields can look like a weapon detonation because of the fighters detonation. I am in no way saying that the explosions on the Venator were a bunch of fighter impacts. Saying that SW weapons are weak and then saying they don't have shields because of what you see in the movies doesn't make much sense. I mean, saying they don't have combat worthy shields because of an ROTS scene actually speaks of the power of SW weapons and the intensity of the battle. Even a Galaxy-Class wouldn't last that long in that battle.

And we do get an idea of the heat resistance of Durasteel. We know that starships are constructed out of Durarmor, which is very similar to Durasteel ( The only real difference I can think of being neutronium added to it.). The re-entry scene shows us that Durarmor is extreamly resistant to heat( It lands practically un-scathed. By this I mean the front half. The ass-half probably killed a good 5,00 people when it hit the ground from buildings collapsing from being hit by it ). This gives us an idea of how heat resistant Durasteel is. While it can't withstand re-entry (you see this during the re-entry scene at the back of the ship. The hallways , which are constructed out of Durasteel, are being slagged beyond all recognition in the back of the fragment.)

There is further evidence of durasteel heat resistance in Episode 1 when Qui-Gon trys to cut through the blast door. Even after hes been cutting through for about a minute, it was only starting to show the melting metal on the ohther side of the door. We know lightsabers are about a meter long, not including the hilt. and there was know part of the blade visible during that scene. So the door was probably about a meter and a half, maybe two meters thick. And it took about a minute for the metal on the other side to be affected by the lightsabers heat. We know metal conducts heat, so stuff not directly in physical contact with the blade was still feeling the blades intense heat. And it took a minute for the heat to start affecting metal on the other side.

If you find any contradicting evidence, tell me.

[Fugu-dono]

Fugu-dono I have to say MS would do alright in close combat but they lack the long range most ST and ST ships have they use alot of bullets which can be destroyed by def lasers and phasers, you have one planet, take that out and you really cant do that much with your space stations can you? So all the feds need to do is start blasting you with Photon torps and all the Empire needs to do is shoot you once with a Super laser be it from the Death star or from the Eclipse. If you can give more info on why Gundam would win then I will listen.

Ah, someone with balls to argue. Seems like the others are just ignoring me because they can't argue a damn thing back. Too bad most Trekkie and SW fanboys can't back up jack when they are truely challenged ne. To think I'm only doing this for the challenge of it too. Hoho

"Would Do alright"? By the way Fettman, did you read my last post through? It seems I've explained how A Turn Gundam would likely decimate any technology. Well I guess if you're talking long distance like Deathstar attack and such then I guess MS universe did develop somthing similar. [SPOILER] Only in the very first serie alone, in an effort to circumvent the Antarctic treaty (forbidding nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons and colony drops on Earth), Gihren's most ambitious project was the Solar Ray cannon. This consisted of a hollowed-out space colony cylinder (huge) rebuilt into a giant carbon dioxide laser with the ability to destroy entire fleets, pinpoint planetary attack from a considerable ditance. Perhaps not as farout destructive as Deathstar but it can probably wipe out whole geographical area, or destroy part of the moon pushing it away from orbit even. [End SPOILer]

Admittingly something that can destroy a planet from very long range is still majorly powerful no matter how you look at it. Deathstar did fall to ace pilots though no!? If I recall Deathstar needs to position itself a certain distance from it's target too right so it probably can't shoot a destructive path from the other side of the galaxy. That's where mobile suits and Newtypes come in. Maneuvrability of Gundam control by Newtype is beyond comprehension since they are likely to ever be hit by normal aim of any kind. [SPOILER] In the novel MS Gundam Newtypes are aware of the Gihren Zabi's motive to use the Solar Ray cannon again after first wiping out 1/3 of Earth Federation's offensive fleet with it. Led by Char Aznable they moved out of the area they knew was in the giant blast's destructive path during it's charge for second more powerful attack aimed to destroy the rest of Earth's fleet. That blast succeeded. The Newtype made a beeline for Gihren to stop the madness. [END SPOILER] From that Newtype heightened awareness might be too much for SW and ST in close or long range combat ne. I say might in case someone does come up with a decent argument.

[Kittamaru]

Fugu, I don't know enough about MSG to argue for or against it XD

The thing is, physical based weapons (eg, bullets) would be easy enough to take out via a wide angle phaser burst. Also, no mater how quick your pilots are, a phaser spread and a few proximity detonation torpedos will, at the very least, rattle him. Or, still, Trek could simply beam your pilot out

[Kittamaru]

Actually, there is some video proof of SW shields.Whenever something hits a SW shield, it doesn't have that whole section of shield flare up and become visible for a few seconds. You still see the shield, but only in the form of a bright flash, which lasts only a fraction of second, but its still visible temporarily. Starfighter impacts against a shields can look like a weapon detonation because of the fighters detonation. I am in no way saying that the explosions on the Venator were a bunch of fighter impacts. Saying that SW weapons are weak and then saying they don't have shields because of what you see in the movies doesn't make much sense. I mean, saying they don't have combat worthy shields because of an ROTS scene actually speaks of the power of SW weapons and the intensity of the battle. Even a Galaxy-Class wouldn't last that long in that battle.

And we do get an idea of the heat resistance of Durasteel. We know that starships are constructed out of Durarmor, which is very similar to Durasteel ( The only real difference I can think of being neutronium added to it.). The re-entry scene shows us that Durarmor is extreamly resistant to heat( It lands practically un-scathed. By this I mean the front half. The ass-half probably killed a good 5,00 people when it hit the ground from buildings collapsing from being hit by it ). This gives us an idea of how heat resistant Durasteel is. While it can't withstand re-entry (you see this during the re-entry scene at the back of the ship. The hallways , which are constructed out of Durasteel, are being slagged beyond all recognition in the back of the fragment.)

There is further evidence of durasteel heat resistance in Episode 1 when Qui-Gon trys to cut through the blast door. Even after hes been cutting through for about a minute, it was only starting to show the melting metal on the ohther side of the door. We know lightsabers are about a meter long, not including the hilt. and there was know part of the blade visible during that scene. So the door was probably about a meter and a half, maybe two meters thick. And it took about a minute for the metal on the other side to be affected by the lightsabers heat. We know metal conducts heat, so stuff not directly in physical contact with the blade was still feeling the blades intense heat. And it took a minute for the heat to start affecting metal on the other side.

If you find any contradicting evidence, tell me.

It is stated multiple times that Wars shields do not flare up (given in many manuals) and this is a key point in the Aldaraan shield debate. The only shields we see do this are the Gungan shields (but they are ray and particle shields) and the BattleDroid shields. Ship shields, supposedly, do not flare.

So either shield tech has lagged WAY behind weapons tech (admit it, a TIE is sort of your basic mass produced POS fighter so it's dual lasers shouldn't be THAT good) or their shields are for navigational/debris purposes only.

[Fugu-dono]

Or, still, Trek could simply beam your pilot out

Hey I like that one.