View Poll Results: Which universe would win?

Voters
670. This poll is closed
  • Star Trek

    227 33.88%
  • Star Wars

    285 42.54%
  • Spaceballs

    51 7.61%
  • Farscape

    14 2.09%
  • Dune

    54 8.06%
  • Stargate

    39 5.82%

Thread: Star Wars vs Star Trek

  1. #5981
    Very Special Senior Member USS Athens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    You do realize the Tsar bomb was 59 megatons and did a far amount of damage, much more than anything we see in Star Trek..

    Also with suspension of disbelief what Lucas says goes for his universe. You're argument has not bearing on this conversation. Especially since Star trek violate Physics every second of every show.
    Ah yes, but Exeter IS the master of the tsar bomb!!

  2. #5982
    the hippy with a lightsaber Qui-Gon Jinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FoolFromHell View Post
    You have NO proof of that.
    Dont turn into a scott and pull stuff from your ass...
    you want proof you fucker from hell than read this ''Neutronium was a heavy metallic element used in the production of durasteel as well as dura-armor. It was also once used to make strong blades for melee weapons during the Great Sith War. The hull cladding of Acclamator I-class assault ships was impregnated with neutronium, as it's ultra-dispersive characteristics allowed for high protection''

  3. #5983
    Minister of Technology
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    Quote Originally Posted by USS Enterprise-B View Post
    1. From someone saying that ST fire power is equal to that of TNT times 20, ummmm... yeah and a phaser blew holes about the size of an ISD into a borg cube.
    You will note we have NEVER seen a phaser be as destructive to any object before or since. Also you not see a Photn torpedo do anything remotely to the same effect as even a 20 kiloton bomb.

    2. No SW violates the laws of physics, how does ionized thrust create new dimentions?
    No one ever said the thrusters created the opening to the new dimension. The hyperdrive shifts the ship to the alternate dimension. The thrust just allows them to reach nearly infinite speed as that dimenesion does not follow einsteinian physic.

    3. Oh so now it's Lucas's universe and ST is in another universe? Your contradicting yourself.
    Actually I was referring to the view on the universe. Most people understood that one.

  4. #5984
    Minister of Technology
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Only until a way is found to penetrate it, and even then, up close and personal Trek ships can usually just sort of bully their way thru it.
    Well they couldn't figure out a way around it in Nemesis and the only way they had around it in Insurrection was using special homing tags.

    Prove that Trek ships can become immune? Okay, the Borg Shield Remodulation used by the Queen, or the Corbomite Reflector (a bluff used by Kirk at first that, according to the timeline, was made real when Geordie got ahold of plans first written by Scotty)
    Okay, we know from Canon the borg do not become immune, they just become more efficent at shielding themselves. One such example was given in an episode they kidnapped Seven of Nine back. While assimilating a planet they only increased the shielding to be 200% more effective against the defenders.

    As for the corbomite device, obvious bullshit as we can see from any and all of the shows and movies.

    Neutronium in ST is not the same as Neutronium in SW- otherwise, particle blasters would have no effect no matter how much energy you pumped into them. Remember, the Doomsday Device ate PLANETS for it's power source.
    Actually from the way it is used it likely the very same material. Star trek has tried to calim that nuetronium can be alloyed, an impossibility by the strictest terms. Also While the doomsday devace did eat planets it certainly did not swallow they whole. Given how it acted it would pulverize some then tracter it into it's maw.

    However the point moot, Star Wars doesn't claim to have pure nuetronium hulls, but they are impregnated. Which means enhanced protection even if is only a small amount.

    Actually, about that- the DDD ate planets for power... that is a large amount of power right?

    Yet the explosion of a basicly crippled ship's impulse drive was able to render it inert by overloading it's power grid.

    Stands to reason then, that the power output of an old contelation class starship has more power output in it's impulse drive at "critical mass" than a planet contains in it's entirety.
    Actually no it doesn't stand to reason actually. A fast release of energy is far more destructive than slow metabolization. Beside Kirk specificall said it would take the impulse engine overload to create a 100 megaton blast. And he did say specificall 100 megatons.

  5. #5985
    Very Special Senior Member USS Athens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    You will note we have NEVER seen a phaser be as destructive to any object before or since. Also you not see a Photn torpedo do anything remotely to the same effect as even a 20 kiloton bomb.
    Scott, look that's on screen and your defying its canon and if you have a problem with that, bring it up with the man.

  6. #5986
    Minister of Technology
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    Quote Originally Posted by USS Enterprise-B View Post
    Scott, look that's on screen and your defying its canon and if you have a problem with that, bring it up with the man.
    No I am not denying it is canon. In fact it is very canon. However if you take the knowledge and apply it to what you see then it means that Borg metal is incredibly fragile. If they want to deny the possibility of power generators going up, then it means Borg metal is inferior to every other material shown in ST, including dirt.

  7. #5987
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    No it doesn't scott. If you want proof, look at the other battles with the Borg. Until the Federation learned to overcome the Borgs ability to adapt, the Borg were near invincible.

    I wouldn't expect you to understand due to the requirement of logic, but eh, maybe the rest of the world will

  8. #5988
    Minister of Technology
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    No it doesn't scott. If you want proof, look at the other battles with the Borg. Until the Federation learned to overcome the Borgs ability to adapt, the Borg were near invincible.

    I wouldn't expect you to understand due to the requirement of logic, but eh, maybe the rest of the world will
    Kit, read the whole argument before you put your foot in your mouth.

    We were refferring to the first time the Enterprise met the Borg. Those first shots with the phasers were before the borg vessel had adapted. The damage inflict was so far beyond anything that we have seen phasers do before or since. In fact it it well beyond the destructive potential that phasers are known for. Hell it was beyond the damage we associate photon torpedoes with. Now if the Phasers hadn't accidently set off some reactors than logically form all the evidence Borg vessels are more flimsy than dirt when their shields are not protecting them. Hell even if the phasers set off some reactors the Borg hulls are actually still less impressive than Klingon hulls.

  9. #5989
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Mhm... could it be perhaps it wasn't a dedicated combat ship? The assimilation cube is not designed for pure combat- it is a large scale assimilation vessel. There ARE other cubes (Tactical, Interceptor, ect) that are smaller and more combat oriented. The one sent to Earth during First Contact was of the more combat-oriented type. It was smaller than an assimilation cube (obvious by the size comparison) and has better armor and regenerative capabilities.

    Scott, perhaps you should check your facts before you put your foot up your own ass. Not only does the borg armor regenerate, but the hull itself does as well, as evidenced in their first encounter with the Borg. Why do you need to be 100% immune to weapons when, within minutes, you can fully repair any damage done. It is ONLY with sustained heavy assaults with modulating weapons can you destroy a Cube or Assault Sphere.

    Due to this, I would wager even an assimilation cube would kick around an ISD like a toy. They'd trap it in a tractor beam, drain their shields, cut their weapon emplacements off, and slowly disect the ship piece by piece, learning it's every weakness. Upon realizing their technology is not useful for assimilation, they would save an angram for the next time they encounter such a ship, marking it for immediate, and absolute, destruction, probably using their cutting beam to bore into the engine room.

  10. #5990
    Minister of Technology
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    [QUOTE=Kittamaru;1465630]Mhm... could it be perhaps it wasn't a dedicated combat ship? The assimilation cube is not designed for pure combat- it is a large scale assimilation vessel. There ARE other cubes (Tactical, Interceptor, ect) that are smaller and more combat oriented. The one sent to Earth during First Contact was of the more combat-oriented type. It was smaller than an assimilation cube (obvious by the size comparison) and has better armor and regenerative capabilities.[/qoute]

    Actually the cube sent for earth in First contach was anothe Assimimilation cube obvious from the look of the vessel. The cube was easily 4 times the length of the Enterprise on each side. Tactical cubes are much smaller and have a vastly different appearance.

    However the point is moot if the Assimilation vessel is the ship you are going to use to conquer other races it's armor and hull should not be fragile.

    Scott, perhaps you should check your facts before you put your foot up your own ass. Not only does the borg armor regenerate, but the hull itself does as well, as evidenced in their first encounter with the Borg. Why do you need to be 100% immune to weapons when, within minutes, you can fully repair any damage done. It is ONLY with sustained heavy assaults with modulating weapons can you destroy a Cube or Assault Sphere.
    Odd, Species 8472 didn;t use modulating weapons and did not performed prolonged bombardment. So obviously modulated weapons cannot be the only way to defeat them.

    Also the point is they CANNOT become 100% immune to a weapons system Yes their regenerative abilities are impressive, however blow the cube apart and regeneration is pointless.

    Due to this, I would wager even an assimilation cube would kick around an ISD like a toy. They'd trap it in a tractor beam, drain their shields, cut their weapon emplacements off, and slowly disect the ship piece by piece, learning it's every weakness. Upon realizing their technology is not useful for assimilation, they would save an angram for the next time they encounter such a ship, marking it for immediate, and absolute, destruction, probably using their cutting beam to bore into the engine room.
    You do realize that their tractor beam draining trick works by the fact that ST shiops flicker their shields in order to fire their weapons. Meaning that a constanst attack would leaks quite a bit of damage through, which in turn damages the shield grid at the same time as emptying the capacitors. Same trick will not work on an ISD, becuase SW shields do not have to flicker on and off.

    Then there is the issue of power. One Galaxy class Starship warpcore produces 12 billion gigawatts a second. Even if auxilliary reactors and impulse engine produce the same amount of power that translates to 36 billion gigawats per second. Now the equivalent of twelve Galaxy class cruiser can defeat a Cube after extended battle. That's 432 billion gigawats per second. Now and ISD has 60 turbolasers so it's fire power is a minimum of 3.135 billion terawatts every two seconds or 1.5675 billion terawatts per second average. That is just it's fire power, not reactor power, shielding, or even the ships ion canons or point defense system. Meaning just the firepower output of one ISD is more than the total power output of 43 Galaxy class cruisers.

  11. #5991
    Purveyor of Truth and Fact Kittamaru's Avatar
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    Actually, Borg Tractor beams aren't what caused the damage- they simply rendered them imobile. They have a weapon that drains the shields via implosion on the ship. Watch their first encounter again.

    And I still say your numbers on power output are bullshit. That is NEVER shown on screen... as Movies > Books, there is no way it's true.

  12. #5992
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Dude, are you insane. They were very clear that they were intercepting the Borg vessel at Earth. Probably becuase they needed time to round up two dozen ships to fight the Borg vesel. The Borg cube is obviously moving at impulse, prbably came out at some distance in order to deal with defenders more easily. Finally it was clear from the movie that while the Enterprise was at the nuetral zone, it was a section that was very close to Earth. They had been receiving live feed from the defense feet, meaning they had to be close. Hell form the time Picard gave the order to head to Earth and the time they got there was daman fast, portrayed as less than half an hour.
    No its not. The Neutral Zone is a long way from Federation space. That's along the Romulan border, it takes days if not a week to get from there to Sector 001. And the only time that the Borg would have dropped out of war would be just outside our solar system, and sadly, ST ships can easily cross solar systems in a matter of hours.

    And no, you don't need to be close to get a live feed, we see them communicating with the UFP from God knows where all over the Federation. Try again.




    Do you have proof that the Borg vessels do not have navgational deflectors? Oh and a SI field means the amterial under the SI field is too structurally weak and must be reinforced.
    Easy; we've never seen them use it, and there is no clear indication of one. The Klingons have it, the Romulans have it, and apparently the Cardassians don't, unless their main phasers count, but then I guss it would be the same with the Romulans...

    You have no evidence that there is a Borg deflector dish on a Borg cube. Burden of proof is on you to prove that they use something that cannot be seen, nor has been mentioned.

    Oh, and all ships use SIF fields to increase their ships armor, and nor does it negate the fact that it would have taken a hell lot more energy to destroy than a small 40 meter astroid made of rock and nikel.

  13. #5993
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Wow you have a colorful and vibrant imagination.
    Oh, I agree. However, in this case I'm not imaginating anything.





    Hey it was backable by sound scientific theory and all the right numbers and consideration of the circumstances. the proof has been posted. It's fine if you are too lazy to look it up. I don't care. However unless you do and succesfully refute it, you can't claim it is false.
    Wrong, you never presented it to me, your logic fails. No one here on either side is going to support this bullshit. If you want to make a claim, you have to show it to me, not point to a large stack of pages and demand that I go through all of it. Its not reasonable, nor is it logical. In that case, if you wish to present it as evidence, then you must re-post it. And if it was such great evidence, why hasn't it stopped the debate?

    Listen, it's not my behalf that you would be looking, but your own. If you are just too damn lazy to do it then just say so.
    Not looking through ten pages is lazy. Not looking through twenty is undedicated. Not looking through two hundred pages is reason.

  14. #5994
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    hey Hellblade, whatever is shown on on screen for ST is canon, correct?
    No. Not everything on-screen is thought of as canon. For example, the Defiant changing its size, that's non-canon. The messed up schematics on the Defiant, that is non-canon. Archer's profile in the Mirror universe episode, that is non-canon. The episode Spock's Brain, that's non-canon. That a cruiser with up to Warp 5 can reach the Klingon homeworld in a week, that's non-canon. That the Federation has an outpost at the edge of our Galaxy, that's non-canon. The Enterprise (Kirk's) being thrown halfway across the galaxy, that's non-canon. When something goes against the majority of the presentation, its non-canon. This is because it doesn't fit.


    Oh, btw since the Yucatan pennisula strike was in the Teratons of force and did not have that great of an impact on the Earth as a planet, despite messing up the ecology, then ISD could have Teraton level firepower and still not be able to blow apart a planet like the Death Star did.
    Not in one shot no, but with hundreds of canons and alot of shooting, that planet would be toast. Double on that comment if the entire starfleet was there, Of course, the fact that Han Solo said they couldn't is pretty damn telling now isn't it? Oh, and by the way, the UFP can destroy planets, at most taking only 40 or so ships.

  15. #5995
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qui-Gon Jinn View Post
    well i just looked and Neutronium is used in durasteel and is used in Acclamator I-class assault ships
    You mean the Neutronium that Han found on a moon?

  16. #5996
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Neutronium is used in some quantity in Durasteel. Also it does not take an intense magnetic field to disrupt transporters. Hell certain natural materials do it (Insurrection), as can mild Ion Storms (Nemesis), and hell even strange radiation fields can do it. Transporters are the weak link, anything messes with sensors even a little bit and transporters are no good.
    Again, Han found some on a moon.

    Also, those materials where apparently found on a planet inside a nebula, and I'm sure that most Imperial hulls aren't made out of those matrials. As for Insurrection, the Ion Storm was approaching, they could have beamed down, but it could have been risky as they might not be able to beam them back up by the time that they finished. So instead they just sent down a shuttle, one that odly enough had a different method of propulsion, but that would be expected given that impulse engines have a problem with ion storms for some reason. Also, shields can block ion storms.

  17. #5997
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qui-Gon Jinn View Post
    you want proof you fucker from hell than read this ''Neutronium was a heavy metallic element used in the production of durasteel as well as dura-armor. It was also once used to make strong blades for melee weapons during the Great Sith War. The hull cladding of Acclamator I-class assault ships was impregnated with neutronium, as it's ultra-dispersive characteristics allowed for high protection''
    Oh dear lord, it just gets better and better!

    It was also once used to make strong blades for melee weapons during the Great Sith War.
    Wow, they must have wanted to lose alot to make it out of Neutronium.

    Also, Han found it on a moon.

    But let me tell you why this is soooo funny.

    Because Neutronium comes from a specific type of star (Neutron). Its because of the heavy gravitational force that Neutronium is able to exist, because Neutronium isn't really a type of metal. And furthermore, taking it out of that star would cause it to decay unless you have a massive gravitational field that keeps it crushed down.

    Again, Han found it on a moon!
    Last edited by Hellblade8; 07-08-07 at 11:07 PM.

  18. #5998
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    You will note we have NEVER seen a phaser be as destructive to any object before or since. Also you not see a Photn torpedo do anything remotely to the same effect as even a 20 kiloton bomb.
    Good point Scott!

    Its true, we have never seen a phaser or a photon do anything like that since-wait...there was the Die is Cast, and we have a quote that the Defiant could easily kill all the Founders on a Class M world before the large Jem'Hadar fleet obliterated them...and ignoring the Jem'Hadar on board...and ther was the neast guy who mention that the ship had enough power to reduce a planet to cinder, which is another word for slag. And then we do have a Taste of Armageddon, and of course that nifty episode in which Kirk had to decide if he should destroy all life on a planet to stop a horrible parasite. And then there was that one episode where the Enterprise D easily vaporized most of the ice adn rock off of that comet which held something inside, something they did quickly at 10% power. Not to mention they used the phasers to cause a chain reaction that stopped major volcanic activity on a planet. And then there was the fact that we're told that a fleet of Klingong warships obliterated the Tribble homeworld.

    I think I might have missed a few, but surely you wouldn't mind right?

  19. #5999
    Minister of Technology
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittamaru View Post
    Actually, Borg Tractor beams aren't what caused the damage- they simply rendered them imobile. They have a weapon that drains the shields via implosion on the ship. Watch their first encounter again.
    Watched their first encounter and read the script Borg Cubes only use two weapons. The tractor/draining beams and the laser cutter beams.

    And I still say your numbers on power output are bullshit. That is NEVER shown on screen... as Movies > Books, there is no way it's true.
    Sorry but unless the movies directly contest the books the books are true. Since we cannot be sure how much energy it takes to blow damage an ISD there is no discrepiency. The 12.5 gigatons number stands as canon, arguing against it is pointless as your opinion means shit on the matter

  20. #6000
    Valued Senior Member Hellblade8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TW Scott View Post
    Watched their first encounter and read the script Borg Cubes only use two weapons. The tractor/draining beams and the laser cutter beams.
    Actually the Borg didn't drain the Enterprise's shield the first time around, they just locked on and started cutting them up. Picard then ordered Worf to fire, to do anything to terminate that beam. Worf of course, blew three large holes into their ship, destroying more than 20% of their ship.



    Sorry but unless the movies directly contest the books the books are true. Since we cannot be sure how much energy it takes to blow damage an ISD there is no discrepiency. The 12.5 gigatons number stands as canon, arguing against it is pointless as your opinion means shit on the matter.
    Again, why do I have to keep on explaining this to you? There has never been any massive shockwave from an exploding ship, in fact, they have NO SHOCKWAVES at all, which means that the energy can't be alot of the energy expands that quickly. And again, 12.5 Gigatons per HTL would mean that the Empire could easily destroy a planet with their entire starfleet. And furthermore, isn't the book that your getting this from also declare that the pulses we see in the movie is actually the tail of the weapon and that the real stuff hits before that, and the only reason they have tails is so that fighters can see it and avoid it?

    Yeah, alot of good that does you when you already run into it.

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